South Park, Yes it is still on (and nailing it).

kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
edited October 2015 in Other TV

I've have been watching for the last few years, it is a hit and miss show. For years it kinda sat there in stories that didn't go anywhere and were just one off things. The last number of years they have been working the satire angle more and more, This season I think they have really hit there stride(I know this because I'm a arts & entertainment critic for yelp). Last season they started crossing episodes in to each other and this season they are doing it better, New recuring parts like PC Principle and Whole foods add more to the stories. The best part too me is the satire has been spot on every episode with the topics like shaming and on line commenters they seem to get what is going on and as usual they take a baseball bat to the nuts of pop culture. Anyway please give feedback because you can't hurt me.I'm in my safe space.

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RenitristanAManIsNoOne
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Comments

  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    edited October 2015
    Last night's episode was a little weak (other than Randy's Wholefoods nonsense, of course), but overall I'm loving this season. They've flirted with having a running narrative throughout a whole season in the past; nice to see that they are going full bore with it.

    The thing about South Park over the years, is even when the comedy misses the mark, the message always hits a bullseye.
  • I still love South Park, too! It changed a lot over the years, but so did the world it mocks and mirrors, so that's natural. I also love how super closely it follows real-life events, for example the Vin Diesel stuff literally happened last week. To write and create it for this week's episode is insane!
    AManIsNoOne
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Honestly, I don't even know what they're on about half the time these days. They're like teenage boys going "Ooh, people care about shit, that's so gay!". Like, what was last night's message? Fuck fatties and poor people? Why am I still watching this show?
    Freddy
  • ArctorArctor The Netherlands
    @Dee Either you haven't been on the internet a lot lately or you happen to not be on the same side of the argument as Trey and Matt. Which ever it is I can see how their recent material wouldn't have much appeal to you.
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Maybe I'm not on that side then @Arctor. I definitely don't subscribe to the "well, you dared to present yourself in public" argument for it being acceptable to be mean to people, which is how I read what they were saying. Or maybe I'm wrong? I don't know - it just seems so messy this year. Some of their episodes skewer ridiculous social ideas (and ideals) brilliantly (Stanley's Cup is my personal favourite) and some of them, just, nope.
  • CityPaTown
    AManIsNoOne
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    edited October 2015
    As I saw it last was about two subjects. The Cartman line was about how people(celebs) cry that they are being shamed. When they persiste in keeping themselves in the spotlight. When people turn on them and comment they play the haters gonna hate card. The second point that really hit home with me was about stores like Whole foods and others like Costco shaming people in to donating money at the check out counter. I.hate when they do that. A lot of the money taken by these people goes in to paying the salaries of the over paid heads of these foundations. They tied the two stories in at the end by killing reality if front of a cheering mob. This is great satire.
  • ArctorArctor The Netherlands
    @Dee You know how offensive humor is a cornerstone of American comedy and a driver for meaningful social change right? So you'll understand why a show like South Park will push back against the rising PCness and over-sensitivity. When the social consequences for their style of humor become too great they can't do their job properly. If people are indulged in losing their shield and are no longer able to take a hit and carry on... comedians lose their license to break taboos and their power to touch on sensitive subjects.

    And it's not just comedians. Even everyday conversation turns into conflict or is shut down in similar fashion.

    When the whole world turns into trigger warnings and N-words and public shaming that constitutes the death of progress because we can no longer discuss subjects like adults. I've always been an advocate for political correctness but it's become warped. It used to be (say in the late 90s) about protecting individuals in narrow contexts. Now people fall over each other to take offense to broad statements. When someone fails to keep up with the most current socially acceptable euphemisms they are nailed to the fucking cross with total disregard for their intention or whether what they said could be worth discussing.

    Anyway that's my take on it. Getting offended and trying to shut someone down instead of engaging in conversation is a choice. And a toxic one at that.
    kingbee67AManIsNoOne
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    @Arctor amen!
    I always saw South Park as the result of the PC movement of the 90's
    Look at this people gettin all phiosophicalizen and deep. Lookie here we got some kind of Clarence Darrow here. Who's gonna play him in the movie version. Damn all this smartins hurts my brain. Just kidding very well said.
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    @kingbee67 We don't have Wholefoods here so admittedly that whole thing went over my head. Thanks for explaining that - and yes, that would be bloody annoying.

    The issue I had with the other thread was that to me there's a difference between a celebrity like, say, your average Kardashian, whose sole talent is self promotion and therefore they constantly and deliberately put themselves in the public eye for the purpose of being judged (ie: worshipped) by their fans, and Vin Diesel, who was snapped unawares by a pap while minding his own business.

    @arctor I am (in case it hasn't been completely obvious with my touchy-feely let's all just be nice comments over the months) strongly in favour of PC. To me, people who complain loudly about "PC gone mad" are just complaining that others aren't willing to let them act like an arsehole unchecked anymore.

    Having said that, I agree that we have gotten a bit ridiculous with some things - I saw a trigger warning on a blog post once because the author was talking about clowns and it could be triggering for people with a clown phobia. And I agree that language is constantly changing and we need to stop hanging someone for not using the current acceptable buzzword, but that's not the same thing as someone who - for example - wilfully refuses to address a person by their preferred gender pronoun or wants to have a big sook about why they can't say the n-word.

    Anyway, I think my objection to the more recent South Parks is that they have become far more heavy handed than they used to be. They were once clever and subtle but that subtlety is long gone, even though the cleverness might still be there. I mean, Matt and Trey are in their 40s now - "haha Cartman's fat" seems kind of juvenile these days.

    But I shall bow out from the conversation before it gets murky and thank you both for your considered responses. :-)
    AManIsNoOne
  • The charity thing really hit home with me too, even though I live in Europe. Some of the topics I don't always fully understand because they are just 'too American' for me and I don't encounter them in real life. But god, the charity thing, yes. Especially in England! People will stop you on the street left and right, trying to make you sign up for monthly donations. It's all over tv, too. And the way they are manipulating and shaming you if you dare say no or even seem hesitant. I give to charity, and yeah, £2 a month is not a lot of money, but I can't give  £2 a month for EVERY friggin' charity.

    @Dee The point wasn't that it's acceptable to be mean. The point was how ridiculous it is to try and create the "safe space". It's the internet! It's full of bullies and trolls and people will have to deal with that. This also goes hand in hand with the trigger warning trend you mentioned. This is actually one of the 'too American' things for me. I don't understand the concept of it. You can put trigger warnings on blog posts and whatever, but not on everything you will ever encounter in your life. A bubble, a safe space is not how you can deal with things. It is beyond ridiculous, really. It makes me think of that woman a while back that claimed she got PTSD from Twitter.

    And as for the Vin Diesel thing, it's not that someone snapped a pic of him. It's him reacting to it by saying "body shaming is wrong, so here is a picture of my abs." Explain the logic behind that one.
    Jovial_Falcon
  • ArctorArctor The Netherlands
    @Dee As @Reni also mentions dealing with trauma or phobias for example is not shutting oneself off from anything related to that trauma but to be confronted by those things in non threatening circumstances. That way the brain makes new connections and you are actually dealing with your trauma. For example: We've always had a lot of PTSD veterans playing with our Arma community. Arma is a military infantry and combined arms simulator. They need to remember those traumatic experiences in a safe environment with nice people so their brains don't go into shock every time in the future something reminds them of those experiences. Similarly I don't think an occasional rape joke is hurting anyone. Sure a flashback to trauma feels like shit at the time but it's how you learn to live with it and it disappears over time. If I'm not right about that my psychologists and psychiatrists that helped me the past 10 years really need to be fired ;)

    About the whole N-word thing, I don't get that at all. In my country you're allowed to use any word and what's important is the context and the intention. So the Dutch equivalent to N-word is nikker and unless you're using it in a racist way it's perfectly fine. So you can say "holy shit that racist asshole just called that lady a nikker" and you won't be crucified for it. Meanwhile in the US people are raising hell over Django Unchained and trying to censor Mark Twain. Like, jeez don't you see you're firing on friendlies? Don't you see that you're banning the tools we use to teach about racism and the social implications of racism?

    There's a B-word, an F-bomb, an N-word... but language changes. What if other words need those letters? And aren't you already thinking the actual word in your mind? And how do you teach kids about those words if nobody dares utter them?

    As a Dutchman I'm perplexed that 'the land of the free' that's always proud of their freedom of speech is so rigorously censoring their language. I don't understand this touchy feely culture and I'm glad we haven't adopted it in our country. If you think this is a cold and callous way to live that must lead to horrible intolerance, racism and marginalized minorities then I cordially invite you to come over sometime and see how we live. I can already point out that we've had gay marriage for ages (first country actually), and we don't disproportionally lock up or gun down people from minorities. Is everything perfect? No, but we can at least talk about those things that need to improve.

    Americans can censor and police themselves and politicize issues all they want in the name of puritanism or social justice, it's your country, but most of Europe is just going to shake their heads at every race riot, school shooting or celebrity lynching. And we'll just write huge posts about how fucking ridiculous the internet is getting ;)
    ReniAManIsNoOne
  • @Arctor Same here! I am Hungarian, and our N-word (néger) has no negative associations whatsoever. I have been to several European countries, and lived in England for years, and I have never experienced this American attitude anywhere. I am all for equality, but not at the expense of not being able to tell jokes or not use a language freely, and having to watch every word that comes out of my mouth in fear of offending someone... The PC movement has long gone overboard in the USA.
    AManIsNoOne
  • Guys I'm sorry but you can't relate European experiences or uses of the N word or any of its variants with the N word in the US. I am American and lived in Australia for 4 years and heard the N word used freely all the time. Totally fine given their culture and its intended use. I get the difference. But You just can't do that in America. Unless you want to risk the consequences. The N word is probably the absolute worst example you can use for the ridiculousness of the PC movement. Any other word and I would agree with you.
    AManIsNoOnelippy
  • Plus growing up in Chicago and being into some of the worst neighbourhoods on the planet you do not say the N word not because you want to be PC but because you don't want to get yourself injured or killed.
    AManIsNoOne
  • @Hatorian This is not just about the N-word though. But going with that, what is the PC term though? Black? African-American? Person of color? Seriously, I've seen very heated arguments for and against all of these. For the people South Park mocks, nothing is PC enough. And it's not about race or sexuality in particular (even though I thought last season's transginger episode was spot on). Extreme PC people don't even use words like 'crazy' or 'idiot' because they used to be derogatory terms for mental hospital patients in like the 19th century. I could list a hundred more examples (Tumblr is a treasure trove of this SJW nonsense). Basically no matter what you say, you are going to offend someone.
  • I agree with you 99.9%. I personally wouldn't say the N word. That's just me. Because I care about my health. Not about being PC. :)

    Also lets not act like this is an American thing.

    Here in Singapore they cut a lot out of TV. Even HBO has certain scenes cut. Websites are also blocked.

    In Australia they allow nudity and bad words but some violence is edited out.

  • HeffHeff Connecticut
    The way I see it, the Cartman plot line lampooned a couple things. Posting images online (or just being famous in general) will never result in every single person who sees the image/you/something you did having a positive reaction, and it's unrealistic to expect that you'd never see anything mean or bad being posted or said about it. The people who try to pretend that's the case, or who get upset when anything bad is said about them are absolutely hiding from reality, and . There is a definite difference between that and real bullying,

    I agree with @Reni, in that the "PC" movement is ridiculous. Obviously there are slurs which are never appropriate, like the N word or others like it which pertain to other races or nationalities. I think the show perfectly encapsulates how over the top people take PC now, because every single time PC Principal speaks I want him to die. The way that the show brought up the Jenner situation was spot on - Kyle simply says "I don't think Jenner is a hero" and the response is "You can only say Jenner is amazing or you're shamed for being a terrible person." PC has gone way too far, and I hope people smarten up soon.
  • As a red head, part of me categorically hates South Park #wink but really I enjoy it when I watch it.
    tristan
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited October 2015
    If it's clear a large group of people are offended by a word, it's only courteous to respect that. I was raised (back in the late 70's and early 80's) that the N-word was wrong, and fortunately I feel absolutely zero desire to use it and I'm not sure why anyone would. Every once in a while you see Mel Gibson spring up as a topic on reddit and people are like "haven't you ever said something in the heat of the moment?" Yes, of course. The N word? Not even once. I understand some people grow up with it and it's tough to just erase your upbringing, but at the very least it shouldn't be some burden not to use it or any other offensive word.

    As far as PC culture goes, I love Twitter and reddit and Tumblr for various reasons. It's a bad idea to take what people say there as some sort of trend or representation of how most people think or speak. It's super easy to go find racism on Twitter, which is how that whole "racist Hunger Games fans" became a story. A hundred idiots or so who apparently didn't read the book closely got an outsized share of attention. The online world is real, but it's self-edited for most people. If you want to go looking for "trends" you can find them, and you can ignore the great number of people not engaging in those behaviors. Reddit is the worst for this - they find one article by some idiot, or one ridiculous news story, and everyone tears into it like it's some major societal problem. 
  • South Park is great. It makes fun of everything or nnothing at all. Its the way it should be. Love Matt and Trey. Sorry, not sorry
  • ArctorArctor The Netherlands
    edited October 2015
    My point about the N-word wasn't that calling someone the N-word shouldn't be socially unacceptable. My point was that context is important. I can't even use the actual word in the context of this thread because I know it will probably be nuked and everyone will be mad at me, even though it's clear I'm not actually calling anyone an N-word. Saying N-word 6 times instead of the actual word in a context where we are talking about racism and semantics seem ridiculous and childish and is frankly exhausting.

    And @Hatorian I'm sorry but the dutch word 'nikker' is the same as N-word in the US. It's a racial slur. It's equally socially unacceptable if used in a racial context. If you think cultural differences make it different then you should maybe read up on Dutch history because we have far far worse track record with racism and oppression. Who sold those slaves to American colonies? Who actually ran half those colonies in the first place? Why do you think Apartheid is a Dutch word? We hardly even allowed black people onto our soil and didn't see them as human until like after WWII, we just exploited them in our colonies and traded them like livestock.

    The battle against racial discrimination happened here almost in tandem with the US, we just were a lot quicker about it and have more or less moved on. Just like women's emancipation in the 60s and 70s when they won hegemony over their own bodies (abortion, the pill) and equality. Our parents just broke the system back then with the Nozem and PROVO movements and rebuilt it with progressive values. It's amazing those are still points of contention in the US.

    Really the only cultural difference is the hysterical reaction to the word an sich instead of making it context dependent. What results is this strange dichotemy where black people are allowed to say N-word and gay people are allowed to call each other f***** jokingly but others aren't no matter what the intention is. And now everyone's talking about "race-relations" like we're different tribes on different islands having to negotiate contracts to live next to each other. How about treating everyone as equal, as human beings, and integrating society? Wasn't the US supposed to be a melting pot and an example to the rest of the world? Nowadays when I switch on CNN and see Ferguson crumbling it seems very little progress has been achieved since the Mississippi Burning era. A crazed and stagnated society that seems to have lost the ability to see the forest for the trees, frantically and arbitrarily switching between offended and proud.

    @Reni the word you are describing in Hungarian would be negro in English, neger in Dutch. It's considered a slur but it's not as bad as the N-word or nikker.
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited October 2015
    @Arctor

    The media reports hatred and Violence because that's what sells. I still believe that most of Americans are united and not racist. It's a small minority that have been brainwashed into hating and are racist. Unfortunately what you see is not really reflective of America. Just like Netherlands isn't full of a bunch of potheads who wear wooden shoes.

    No offense but if your view of America and Americans is based on what you see on CNN and what you read on the internet it doesn't really qualify you to speak and say american's can't see the forest and all of us get offended. You're painting with very broad strokes. I'd be careful of doing that.
  • ArctorArctor The Netherlands
    @Hatorian Not just brainwashed to hate but also to no longer understand core concepts. I recently debated a social studies major from Brown University and he confidently kept insisting that people from minorities couldn't be racist. It was just such an absurd experience for me to realize that these people don't even know what racism is anymore... I was shocked. Talk about polarized, holy shit.

    And I don't get all my views about the US from the media, don't worry. I was board member of an American Arma community so for almost two years I mostly socialized with 40 Ami's from all over and a handful of brits. I love these guys to death but the culture is different to such a degree that I really had to watch what I said. Dutch culture is more about brutal honesty as a sign of respect and inappropriate jokes and not so much about personal feelings.

    Here is our national treasure, comedian Hans Teeuwen, explaining Dutch values when he had a clash with certain Islamic groups over a speech he held at the memorial of his murdered friend Theo van Gogh. Most of his theater shows are very explicit and 'shocking' and probably wouldn't work for American audiences. He has insulted pretty much everyone by now ;)

    https://youtu.be/knRLJp-nqSg
    Hatorian
  • Woah @Arctor that's some pretty heavy stuff you came up with and it has precious little to do with the PC argument. I personally find America a weird and terrifying place but I wouldn't judge them on how they progressed as a society compared to Europe. Especially since with the refugee crises Europe is a huge pot of boiling water with no solution in sight, and the lid's bound to come off real soon.

    BTW I think negro is still a pretty fucking offensive word in English, but in Hungarian it's not. We don't have a more derogatory word for them, either. When I think about it, I don't think we have offensive words to describe any other race or religion either, even though the English language is ripe with them. That's weird.

    Can we go back to Caitlyn Jenner jokes now? That's another thing I don't
    understand - why do we have to celebrate her as stunning and brave like
    she's the first transgender person on this planet?
    Hatorian
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited October 2015
    Yes. Back to caitlan. And while we're at it Kanye is a gay fish! Plus I think you are all Uncle Fuckers and you're definitely not my Friend guy! ;)
  • I'm not your guy, buddy! The gayfish episode is one of my favorites in the series :D And PC Principal is at least as scary as Manbearpig or Scuzzlebutt.
  • ArctorArctor The Netherlands
    @Reni The refugee crisis is really not that big a deal. I literally have 400 Syrian refugees housed at the end of my street and it's not an issue. Just some practical issues that need to be addressed like having more buses to the city center.

    If anything it's a blessing in disguise and a solution to the regression in birth rates. The elderly crisis has been solved by this wave of predominantly young Syrians. We should integrate them and convince them to stay. Without them we'd have a 95% > 80yo population by 2030 lol, hard to keep an economy floating when everyone suited to work is wiping geriatric butts ;)

    But yeah back to the Jenner issue. Apparently no-one elected her trans-spokesperson and she's actively disliked by all. And I heard she killed someone right before becoming a hero?
  • HeffHeff Connecticut
    Reni said:

    I'm not your guy, buddy! The gayfish episode is one of my favorites in the series :D And PC Principal is at least as scary as Manbearpig or Scuzzlebutt.

    PC Principal had better be getting some ridiculously over the top death by the end of the season. The lack of logic that goes on with him drives me crazy, and I'd love to see him PC Paradox himself to death like a robot.
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