604 - Devil's Night

Director: Ryan Murphy Writer: Jennifer Salt


  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Having John Carroll Lynch back in clown makeup was a really, really nice touch.
    Frakkin TElisaHeffNikkiPTonya
  • HeffHeff Connecticut
    edited October 2015
    Hmm, Jon gets invited to the killers' dinner? March says he's been watching him, and believes he has greatness? It's still looking pretty certain that my prediction was right; Jon is the Ten Commandments Killer. The question is, will he choose to learn from the Master? Or will he discover the truth about himself, reject it, and reach for redemption instead?
    A_Ron_HubbardFrakkin TElisaMichelleJohn_Nada
  • HeffHeff Connecticut
    Also Alex continues to be a shitty character and make nonsensical decisions. She finds Holden DOWN THE HALL from Jon's room and doesn't tell him? Not only is it his kid, he's a fucking COP. She deserves whatever horrible things happen from her decision to be turned.
  • John_NadaJohn_Nada California
    Heff said:

    Hmm, Jon gets invited to the killers' dinner? March says he's been watching him, and believes he has greatness? It's till looking pretty certain that my prediction was right; Jon is the Ten Commandments Killer.

    I believe you are correct @Heff. Jon came to the party as himself, the 10 Commandments Killer.
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England
    edited October 2015
    Wes Bentley's acting is unbearable! He's clearly going for a film noir, stoic detective archetype but it's just not working, his scene with Mrs Evers was dreadful and ruined what was actually an interesting plot development for her character.

    I have mixed feelings about the serial killer dinner. It's one thing to base a character like James March on the real life H.H. Holmes, but to be putting on screen real life murderers, some whose crimes were not that distant, made me feel a bit weird. I'm sure I'm being way too sensitive about it but for show makers to write a script that glorifies these real life monsters, some whose victims will still have living and affected family members, rubbed me the wrong way. Even the thinnest of veils would have made me feel better, but I can understand the choices. It just felt different to me compared to any documentary or movie adaptations of the numerous serial killers, because rather than a journey in which we see them get their comeuppance, they were just celebrated and rewarded for their crimes.

    Anyway, I should probably relax. I feel like I'm putting way too much thought in to this show, arguably more than Ryan Murphy himself!

  • HeffHeff Connecticut
    I see where you're coming from, but I wouldn't say they were glorified in any way. I think the show put a big spotlight on their flaws and dark motives, in a way which was supposed to make you feel vaguely uncomfortable because of how casual the killers were about their actions. The only people who are praising what they did are the other killers, all of whom are dead.

    Lily Rabe, for example did a great job in her portrayal of Wuernos, as her preemptive attack on Jon showed that she wasn't the victim she made herself out to be, but an unstable murderer. She accuses Jon of "taking from her" when she got him drunk, knocked him out, and bound him to the chair. Gacy and Dahmer were also portrayed as information about the two of them suggests. Gacy's clown makeup and casual comments about the bodies in the crawl space of his home, and Dahmer's drill/acid experiment were chillingly similar to the real life events, but I don't think they were made to look "cool" in the show - it was about the morbid reality the killers had created.
  • HeffHeff Connecticut

    Having John Carroll Lynch back in clown makeup was a really, really nice touch.

    They should have had him say "I'm a good clown" like Twisty did last season.
  • UnderwoodUnderwood Philadelphia, PA
    Once again, like I seem to be saying after almost every episode so far, this was a pretty good episode. Lilly Rabe killed it ( that was a soft ball c'mon ) as Aileen Wurnos. The dinner scene was really enjoyable, but alas the same main problem with this show in recent years keeps happening. The cast is just too damn big. Last week we get introduced Angela Bassett's badass character and then we don't see her last night after it taking until the third episode to even be introduced to her. That's annoying.
  • edited October 2015
    @amyja89, I wasn't totally comfortable with it either. Aileen W. had a horrible life filled with rape and I think that at least some of her crimes were self defense, even if the magnitude of the danger was mostly in her mind. I would've preferred fictional people. I don't see how March could be a mentor to her or Dahmer. They killed for very different reasons than him. It was just too extra for me.
  • April_May_JuneApril_May_June California
    edited October 2015
    Maybe I just have a sick sense of humor, but I have to admit that Zodiac totally cracked me up.
    I also thought it was funny when Gacy spoke in his thick Chicago accent, and Dahmer spoke in his thick Wisconsin accent.

    PS - please know that I mean absolutely no disrepect to the victims of the killers, or to their families when I say this - I'm just taking the episode in the spirit I believe AHS meant it.
  • TonyaTonya SC
    edited October 2015
    Well, even though Jon may still turn out to be a very unreliable narrator, my prediction that he was involved in Holden's disappearance was wrong. It was Elizabeth. Saving him from neglect. But now I want to ask: what about Scarlet? No one gives a crap about this kid. Her mom's a glampire now. Her dad's probably a serial killer, and probably a drunk, who leaves her alone at fashion shows with little weirdos named Lachlan or Laughlin or however you spell "I have a pretentious name". I hope she kills everyone (Firestarter style... because I could see her playing the role of Charlie.)

    The implication of the serial killer dinner certainly seems to be that Jon is in fact the Ten Commandments Killer. It might explain how he has survived living in Room 64 all this time when no one else seemed to make it through a few hours (the Swedish pals, MaxGreenfield/Schmidt from New Girl). But I wish there was some indication that he has an issue with sin. Or any religious affiliation at all. (It would make sense if he was raised in a cult or something! *wink wink*) Doesn't it seem like the Ten Commandments Killer would hold some kind of opposition to breaking them? I can't recall even a mention of the Big 10 from anyone except Sally last episode. 

    Speaking of Sally, curious to learn more about her arrangement with Mr. March. If she brings him a person to kill on Devil's Night he leaves her alone for the next year? What's that about?
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    edited October 2015
    I was listening to the podcast and they were discussing the victims who lived and what it must be like for them watching the show. I forgot to set the dvr so didn't see this weeks.
    I do have a Richard Ramirez story. In 85 my friend was following the story in the papers. He would tell me all the gory details of what was going on. The street we lived on was super prime for him. We lived on a culdasack next to a freeway. The police never came around and it was quiet at night. It was getting near the start of my last year of high school and I need some Doc Martins to stomp around in, back in those days you had to get them in Hollywood. They did not have a shop in the local mall, there were a number of stores on Melrose that sold them. My friends dad worked at Hollywood community Hospital (later on I would work there), he was gonna give us a ride at the crack of dawn. He said he wouldn't wait. So we crashed in his van that night and we would be ready. So it was late and we were sitting in the van. A car pulls up behind the van and turns out it's lights. We figured it was a neighbor but no one gets out of the car. We start to get nervous. We can just see a persons silhouette in the vans rear view mirror. We look around for weapons. We find a tire iron and flood light. For some reason with those in hand I felt we had the advantage. He sat in the car for a while and finally bailed. It could have been a cop undercover or some other freak. He got caught a week or so later. Years after this event I found out that he had been going up a local set of hills and doing some satanic rituals. The hills had been used for that kind of stuff for ever even a murder by some devil worshiper in 2002. So could I have been a victim?
  • I didn't have a problem with the dinner scene, even though I know they are fairly recent. It was only a short, one-off thing so I'm fine with it. I am more disturbed with Charles Manson still being alive and they already made several movies and a tv show of him (where he's played by the actor who played Renly Baratheon in Game of Thrones). These are very focused on him though, so maybe that's why I find it weird. In AHS they were temporary figures in a story of something else.

    Lily Rabe was fantastic and I do hope they will bring her back in any future seasons, she was so great in this. She left the show to be in that god-awful The Whispers, which was so bad it got cancelled after one season. What a mistake.
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Wes Bentley reminds me of Dylan McDermotts characters from murder house and asylum. Could he someone be related to one of his characters? 

     Seth Gabel from Fringe was so creepy as Jeffrey Dahmer. 

     I was ok with the serial killers dinner. I lived with my grandma during the time when Richard Ramirez was killing older women in the city and surround areas where we lived. He was a freakin creep and we lived in fear until he was caught.

    But the AHS portayal didn't bug me.
  • Surprised no one caught the nod to Natural Born Killers (when Aileen and Rameriez were dancing). That was an almost exact take from NBK.

    As far as the dinner scene I thought it was well done. From my viewpoint Mr March controls who can see them and who can't. The anger seen when Sally took Jon away was more of letting him go. It reminded me of the scene in Constantine when the Devil let the soul go. This "letting go" was displayed when Jon couldn't see anything but the current state of the room and the flash to March still at the party with the others in the "made up room".

    I do agree with the speculation that Jon is the 10 commandments killer. I think he miles himself the statue and had Sally text him. When he kills however he "blacks out" so in reality he has no idea of "who" he is. This would make the statement of Mr March have meaning as well "he's not ready yet". Once he comes to the realization of who he is, things may fall more in place.

    I know listening to the podcast there has been some confusion regarding Sally. If you watch closely she has never left the property grounds (which is what she is "locked to"). She can go outside, but never leave the property. Back when she was trying to enter the party, we just see her walk in, but she was never seen off property. She shows up what seems to be randomly in different places, so we don't know what controls her movement.
  • @Elisa, Both the Wes Bentley and Dylan McDermott characters are much like the dad character on Scream Queens (horrible, don't watch). Seeing that character made me feel like Murphy has a type for certain roles. Maybe he's creatively stuck.
  • KingKobra said:

    Surprised no one caught the nod to Natural Born Killers (when Aileen and Rameriez were dancing). That was an almost exact take from NBK. 

    I noticed this as well. Aileen Wuornos' dancing was exactly the same.

  • edited November 2015
    The dancing was very not Aileen.

    Eta: Part of my interest in the show amounts to seeing whether it will become a hot mess before or after the mid-season break, and how big of a hot mess it will be.
  • MichelleMichelle California
    edited November 2015
    Not a lot to say about this one... I love me some Hotel season, but wasn't super keen on seeing the serial killer circle jerk.  I will say this:  Lily Rabe *nailed* her performance.  Damn, she is good!   Also, as with every episode, Denis O'Hare is just killing it as Liz Taylor.  Was I the only one who was reminded of Carol (TWD) with his "Oh, sweetie..." to John?  It took me back to when she told Rick "Oh, sweetie... you can't have it both ways".

    I really really hope they're going somewhere interesting with turning John's ex (why can't I remember her name?  Holden and Scarlet's mom?).  I'm so over her character.  And I'm pissed at her for f*cking pretty much forgetting all about the fact that she has *two* kids, not just the one.

    This week looks good... love me some Iris!  Even though yeah, she's not the greatest person ever.  I think it's because I so love Kathy Bates in pretty much everything she does.

    One final thing - when are we gonna get Liz Taylor's backstory???   I'm dying every week to see this!  I am SO super intrigued to find out how he came to be at the hotel and if he's truly alive or dead.  And how he came to have such a fabulous wardrobe. 
  • MichelleMichelle California
    Okay, I just had another thought.  I'm not sure if this has previously been mentioned, but has anyone noticed the running theme of mommy issues in this season?  Iris and Donovan, Miss Evers and her son, Alex (I finally remembered her name!  damn!) and Holden...     Speaking of Miss Evers, I felt *so* horrible for her with the kidnapping and murder of her son.  I know she's an accomplice to Mr. March, but that flashback really did get me to feel for her.    Btw, Mare Winningham is such a fantastic actress.  I haven't seen many people singing her praises in terms of her performance but I think she's really really good.

    Wonder if we'll see any more mommy issues this season?  
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England
    I think there is going to be something important to do with the fact that Mrs Evers makes it clear that her boy was never found nor his body recovered. 
  • HeffHeff Connecticut
    Anyone else really excited for this week's episode? I'm really looking forward to it. Don't even remember what I saw in the preview, but this season has been my favorite so far.
  • MichelleMichelle California
    3rd rewatch last night and I picked up on something...  after Liz tells John that he is on the guest list for the dinner with Mr. March, she hands him the invitation and he goes up to his room.  He enters with gun drawn, thinking someone is in his room.  As he is entering his room, there is a pile of things on his floor - it looks like a scattered mess of stuff - just before the shot of the tux lying on his bed in the garment bag.    Here's my question - has anyone thought to freeze frame and figure out what that pile of stuff is?  I tried, to no avail.  But I feel it is significant, otherwise why show it?
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