Official Direct Thread: Kill Bill vol. 2

Consider this your official thread for Kill Bill vol. 2. Favorite moments? Fan theories? References? Lines? Characters? Discuss! 

Comments

  • As much as I love Vol. 1, I'm an even bigger fan of Vol. 2. Tarantino really surprised me here by slowing things down and really bringing the story/characters to the fore. The first one was all revenge and caranage and this one really has a lot of space to breathe and focuses much more on the characters. It's less violent in terms of body count, but more brutal and visceral in terms of the types of violence on display and how it's depicted.

    I absolutely love the samurai trailer fight scene. It's amazing to see how the confined space almost becomes a character in and of itself.

    I also find all of the characters fascinating. Especially Bill and David Carradine's performance. He could have been a very cookie cutter villain, but Tarantino and Carradine play him as much more nuanced and by the end I kind of wanted Beatrix and him to patch things up, even though I know he's a murdering bastard and he deserves to die. I was even half convinced that he wasn't actually going to go through the massacre by the end of the chapel sequence, even though I had seen Vol. 1.

    And the last segment at Bill's house is so different from what I was expecting and far more satisfying to me than any predictable blood bath may have been. Several of my friends were really let down by Vol. 2 and find it to be a boring finish, but I was so captivated throughout. Moreso than Vol. 1.

    For a series of films known mostly for their style and violence, there are some amazing scenes of dialogue that I'll take any day over the big blood baths. Here are some of my favorites:

    1. Budd talking about how she deserves her revenge and they deserve to die. But then again, so does she.

    2. Bill's whole speech about Super Man.

    3. Bill talking about the fish flapping on the floor and then not moving.

    4. The last exchange between Beatrix and Bill talking about what happens when you betray a murdering bastard and Bill referring to what he did at the chapel as an overreaction.

    5. Elle's black mamba speech.

    6. Elle and Budd's dialogue about the three R's and Elle singling out 'Regret' as the biggest 'R' she feels in Budd's dying moments.

    7. Bill and Arlene Plimpton talking outside the chapel.
    Wahl-eAntManBee
  • I remember liking volume 2 slightly more than volume 1 my first time through, but I was kinda shocked at how much better volume 1 held up after just rewatching both. The characters are more compelling, the stakes seem higher, and the music is more interesting. The fight with Daryl Hannah was cool, but I couldn't help but compare it to the fight with Vivica Fox, which was way better. The training montage with Pai Mai was interesting, but it pales in comparison to the Hattori Hanzo sequence in volume 1.

    I will say that Bill is a great character and I loved everything he did in this movie, and the buried alive sequence is always intense. A lot of the other scenes just fell flat for me compared to volume 1. Also, I'm not sure if it's Daryl Hannah's delivery or what, but I felt myself rolling my eyes for the first time at some of her dialogue.
    Wahl-e
  • That's really interesting @Shum

    I haven't re-watched vol. 2 yet, so I could certainly backtrack on some of my statements above as I'm just going off memory and it's been several years since I've seen it. I've also built a lot of the scenes up in my head over the years so they may well fall a bit flat this time out. I know on my re-watch of Pulp Fiction there were a few bits of dialogue that didn't hold up quiteas well as I remembered.

    On the whole though, I just remember vol. 2 surprising me more and having longer staying power than vol. 1. I was actually surprised how many details I'd forgotten about 1 coming into this re-watch. I'm really interested, though, to see how 2 holds up when I watch it this weekend, especially after seeing your comments.
    Wahl-e
  • mike3point14159mike3point14159 International Falls MN
    edited November 2015
    Seeing that is the general consensus that KB2 is better than KB1, and given that they were shot as one event as much as is possible, then edited later, is it possible that, QT shuffled the list to make the most enjoyable story?

    That being said, these were released within a single calendar year, right? Meaning that this is one movie, it's just that modern audiences are not receptive to such long movies. Right?

    Wahl-e
  • That being said, these were released within a single calendar year, right? Meaning that this is one movie, it's just that modern audiences are not receptive to such long movies. Right?
    I think it's important to treat them as two separate movies. I think that if they were a single film, they would have had to be edited differently. In my view, this affect on the post-production results in two distinctly separate stories. 

    You're correct on the releases of the two films. Volume 1 came out on 10/10/03 and Volume 2 came out on 4/16/04.
  • Here are a couple of interesting tidbits I picked up on the "Making of" on the blu-ray that is relevant to the discussion on this week's cast.:

    1. Apparently Gordon Liu used to appear opposite Pai Mei in a lot of old Shaw Brother's films when he was younger, so he was thrilled to get to actually play as Pai Mei here.

    2. Michael Parks is playing the same sheriff character here that he played in From Dusk Till Dawn.

    3. The Esteban character was originally supposed to be played by someone else, but that character couldn't be there for the table read, so Tarantino had Michael Parks read it instead. He liked Parks's reading so much that he cast him instead. Bummer for the guy that couldn't make it to the read.

    4. Tarantino's take on the Esteban scene was similar to what you guys were talking about in regards to it being the last barrier or gates to get to Bill. He said this type of scene would it fit right in in something like Apocalypse Now as kind of a weird pitstop along to meeting Colonel Kurtz. I got the sense that the scene is there to add texture and a bit of background. In any case I love the scene.

    Thanks for the great cast. I've really enjoyed every discussion you guys have had so far. Plus it's been a great incentive to go and re-watch all these films.

    I was worried that this one might not hold up as well, but thought it held up really well, despite a few lines here and there that fell a bit flat. I'm always surprised at how much I care about these characters, knowing full well just how despicable they are.
  • There was one other bit I wanted to mention. On the "Making of" they were talking about the choreography and how at one point the choreographer (the guy who is famous for his work on The Matrix and many wire-fu movies.) asked why Tarantino even needed him there as apparently Tarantino had already written out the fight sequences in great detail and knew exactly what he wanted.
  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    edited November 2015
    They have to be viewed as two separate movies, but that isn't how it was originally intended. Meaning when QT was originally working on this it was one film, but because of the length he had to split it up and I am assuming he saw a somewhat organic way in which to do so. I think overall it worked. Vol. 1 was the ode to Kung-Fu and Samurai films from QT. Vol. 2 felt more like QT letting the dialogue and characters off of the chain and allowing them lead the movie. People overall seemed to like Vol. 1 more than 2, which makes this thread a delight.

    They have been talking for ages about releasing a combined version (which I assume would be edited differently) entitled Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair. It just never seems to have surfaced unfortunately. I'd give my pinky finger to own that.
    DaveyMacWahl-e
  • Put me in the Volume 2 camp, although I do appreciate Volume 1 for all of it's ferocious super hero action. Put the two together and the whole project is like the greatest Mother's Day gift a loving son can ever create for Mom.

    It's all about the Lioness fighting like hell to rejoin her cub. So beautiful.

    I have one question: What is the timeline for the O-Ren Ishii character? Does she join the Viper Assassination Squad before or after she became boss of the Tokyo underworld? Obviously, it would have to be after, but how does Beatrix know that she became Tokyo boss while she was in a coma and then telling us about it while making her toe wiggle in the Pussy Wagon? Just something that popped into my head while rewatching these this week.
  • Yeah I think she basically becomes the boss of the Tokyo underworld after the Deadly Viper Assassin Squad disbanded. As to her knowledge of O-Ren's path to becoming boss, I've always interpreted that to be that the narration we are hearing is after the fact and she is constructing the story for us, if that makes sense.

    Or maybe O-Ren was simultaneously apart of the assassination squad and climbing ranks of the Tokyo underworld, so Beatrix would know about it. I find that less likely, though as it would probably be tough to balance the two jobs at once.
    AntManBee
  • DaveyMac said:

    As to her knowledge of O-Ren's path to becoming boss, I've always interpreted that to be that the narration we are hearing is after the fact and she is constructing the story for us, if that makes sense.

    I think this is spot on. Much of the narration from Beatrix throughout Volume 1 seems that her looking back from the end of Volume 1.
    DaveyMacAntManBee
  • I am kind of surprised that people liked V2 more than V1. Maybe it's because I viewed both as one movie so the total shift of storytelling threw me off. I did like that Kiddo was buried alive and that shot of initial helplessness. But like Shum said, everything else was kinda weak to me.
  • Wahl-eWahl-e Seattle

    I am kind of surprised that people liked V2 more than V1. Maybe it's because I viewed both as one movie so the total shift of storytelling threw me off. I did like that Kiddo was buried alive and that shot of initial helplessness. But like Shum said, everything else was kinda weak to me.


    I was in the KB1 > KB2 camp before my rewatch for Direct— but my podcast-watch caused me to flip flop. You're right, there is a major tonal shift. For me, in the end, KB1 is a great Tarantino action flick (a la Deathproof) and KB2 is a great Tarantino flick (a la Reserviour Dogs). They're both great films. To each their own. 
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