209 - "Ten Thirteen"

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Comments

  • @toncica Yeah you're right, the mom must have had money. I don't know, Meg just didn't seem to have a happy relationship with anyone. She must have been pretty screwed up even before the departure, I think.
  • DrewDrew indianapolis
    @toncica how would Isaac have ever known about the walnuts? As blown away as you are that people are so willing to believe in his powers I'm blown away that people are so quick to jump at he doesn't.
    KingKobra
  • @Drew, I wrote that in my first post. The fiancee was interested in Meg finding a "real" psychic after all the others she has seen were fake. He would have provided Isaac with the knowledge to appear real to Meg. Meg's change of behavior towards her fiancee after hearing what the supposedly last thing was her mother wanted to tell her indicates that she knew she was being lied to.

    I think that's a reasonable view on this matter. If there is a plausible possible explanation then why would one prefer the supernatural explanation? Sure, it's a fictional universe and everything is possible. But so far it has not been established beyond doubt that supernatural powers are at work in this universe. The departure is meant to be inexplicable, it will never be explained and nobody can ever know why it happened. It is in the same way supernatural as the Big Bang is. 
    AshleyOcean
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    Oh yeah, Meg had a privileged upbringing.  I had a friend, also from New Rochelle, who frequently complained about her parents' stinginess, even though they paid for her apartment in the East Village and her private grad school tuition.  The first time I went to their house for dinner, I was so uncomfortable by the way they treated the (live-in) housekeeper, who served us dinner but they acted as if she was invisible.  I liked my friend, but she grew up with so much privilege that the slightest emotional discomfort was irrationally magnified, so I can see how Meg's underlying pathology was amplified by her post-Departure experience.
    NikkiP
  • toncica said:


    Before this incident we have no reason to think that their relationship is in jeopardy. Meg is coping with her grief and probably a guilt complex because she missed the last moment with her mother to go and snort coke on the toilet. It makes sense that she told her fiancee about the last moments with her mother mentioning the walnuts, also that there is still an unpaid debt because of the shoes. Isaac would use the walnuts anecdote to prove that he's legit, then tell her something that would make sense for Meg to hear. He's trying to prepare her that it is something mundane, that she would be disappointed, but it may still give her closure if it makes sense to her. Maybe something along the lines that her mother doesn't want to be paid for the shoes, it's a gift and there's no debt to be paid. If that's it then Meg would see that he doesn't know about the check this was a fraud, set up by her fiancee to make her believe something that's not true. Her trust would be destroyed and the relationship doomed. Cue broken pencil joke and spit on this fake place before entering the bus to get outta here...            
    Saw this suggested on Reddit and sorry if it has been posted, but Issac told Meg the pencil knock-knock joke as her mother's last words. Whether that's what she really was going to say is up in the air (depending on whether or not you think Issac has any powers).
    ReniAshley
  • DrewDrew indianapolis
    @toncica why would she have even brought up the walnuts to her fiancé? It was a complete non sequitur. And what do you mean there's no proof at super natural powers? What is the departure? That isn't not supernatural, it's not as if a tornado went and wiped out 2% of the population. By your last sentence what the departure has a completely rational explanation it's just not known?
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    edited December 2015
    Drew said:

    @toncica why would she have even brought up the walnuts to her fiancé? It was a complete non sequitur. And what do you mean there's no proof at super natural powers? What is the departure? That isn't not supernatural, it's not as if a tornado went and wiped out 2% of the population. By your last sentence what the departure has a completely rational explanation it's just not known?

    If I were to say, "there is no proof that anything supernatural happens on this show," it would be with the caveat of the departure. Because it gets old having to say "except, of course, for the departure" every time we touch on the tap dance this show does around rationality.

    Of course, it's also perfectly rational to say that the departure isn't even super natural, it just can't be explained... yet. And I'd argue it's perfectly rational to say the opposite. It depends on how you feel and what you bring to the show's experience.

    But I'm a slippery, sly kind of guy who likes to question every thing, including my rational view of the universe from time to time.
  • DrewDrew indianapolis
    @A_Ron_Hubbard thats fair, I subscribe to skepticism in the real world but I just find personally something comforting in being able to let that down for a TV show. Maybe it's because of the situations in my personal life but being able to just fall into the supernatural is comforting when dealing with the realities of our actual lives.
  • fullroundactionfullroundaction Myrtle Beach, SC
    The shot with Matt sitting down with Meg where a couple shadows pass over his face while he's staring at her ...I don't know if it was necessarily intentional but it's so good.
    NikkiPAshley
  • @Drew I haven't decided one way or another whether Isaac is the real deal or not as I feel like we don't have enough information either way, but I totally but that Meg would tell her fiancée about the walnuts. It's probably something that would really standout in her mind as one of the last things that happened right before her death. It's the kind of detail that would stick with and get told every time you talk about a loved one's death. Especially a traumatic one like that in such a public setting.
  • edited December 2015
    I still believe the Patti stuff was in Kevin's head, Mary never woke up, Holy Wayne was full of shit... but when Isaac mentioned walnuts I was like "woah this guy really does have psychic powers"

    The more I think about it, it's totally possible he could've found that information somewhere else. It could be as simple as Meg posted about it on Facebook one time. As always with this show I like that it's ambiguous. 
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    God, this episode gave me some strong LOST memories - in a good way.

    Not much to say that hasnt been said here, looking forward to the podcast on this one.

    Who else immediately downloaded "White Lines" and that gorgeous version of the "The Promise' right after watching this?? I know I did...
  • DrewDrew indianapolis
    Listening to the cast, yeah I took credit for the GR prediction it's in the 208 thread I posted like Friday or Saturday right before this episode if anybody wants to go back and read it, to be fair I did say GR or they are just going about their life somewhere else.


  • Saw this suggested on Reddit and sorry if it has been posted, but Issac told Meg the pencil knock-knock joke as her mother's last words. Whether that's what she really was going to say is up in the air (depending on whether or not you think Issac has any powers).

    Oh, I like that. I like that a lot.
  • Drew said:

    Listening to the cast, yeah I took credit for the GR prediction it's in the 208 thread I posted like Friday or Saturday right before this episode if anybody wants to go back and read it, to be fair I did say GR or they are just going about their life somewhere else.

    The GR prediction actually crossed my mind too way back in the beginning of the season, but then quickly talked myself out of it. I thought that because the GR is out on the street so much and going on missions all the time, there was no way they would take in the girls just to hide them. With Miracle being this special and very famous place, and no fraud flags popping up on the DSD questionnaire, their disappearance likely hit international news, so they would've been recognised so easily on the streets anywhere. Guess I didn't calculate Meg's rogue GR faction into the equation.
  • AshleyAshley Atlanta, GA
    Blanch said:

    Did anyone else think the "wandering hippie" that was captured and stoned by the GR looked just like Tommy? Not sure if it was intentional or not, but interesting nonetheless



    I thought so, too! For a minute, I actually wondered if they'd just put a wig on him.


    I was mildly annoyed by the reveal at the end. Like Lindelof mentioned, I'm glad that hadn't been an internet theory going around for the past two months, because then I would've been really annoyed. But when they showed Meg and Evie talking, I literally said out loud, "Ughhh, I hope she didn't join the Guilty Remnant." I get almost irrationally agitated every time they're on screen. And especially Meg. So not my favorite episode, and I'm a little disappointed that the GR has been the undercurrent for a lot of what's happened this season. I hoped we'd left them in New York. But it's still been a stellar season of television, and I'm extremely intrigued and excited for the finale.

    NikkiP
  • Drew said:

    @toncica why would she have even brought up the walnuts to her fiancé?

    You think she wouldn't tell him anything at all about her last moment with her mother? I can imagine she wouldn't tell him the real reason she went to the toilet, and maybe she wouldn't mention the talk about the wedding since she is not excited about getting married. Her writing a check to her mother struck me as something that would come up again, but it hasn't. So why was that in the scene? The walnuts came up to make Isaac look legit, the check could have come up to expose him when we didn't hear what he told her. That's my reasoning.

    You could say I'm biased because I bring my real world view into the show, psychics are selling lies to people as John says in the first episode of this season. I can't help but look for a rational explanation in a show that hasn't decided yet whether there are supernatural elements in it or not. If I was pressed to explain Erika's surviving bird in the box I would argue the bird that comes out of the box isn't the same that Erika put in. The original dead bird could be in the box that Evie gave John, her "gift" to him being to prove his point that there are no miracles in Miracle. 
  • edited December 2015
    Although I find it plausible that the fiance communicated with Isaac beforehand and planted the information about the walnuts, I also see a major flaw in this theory: If the fiance and Isaac had cooked this up to end Meg's fruitless search for a true psychic, why would Isaac have made her mother's "last words" disappointing? Seems like the whole point of the fakeout would be to pretend that the mom said some deep-ass thing that would make Meg feel much better.
    brewsevelt
  • toncica said:

    Drew said:

    @toncica why would she have even brought up the walnuts to her fiancé?

    You think she wouldn't tell him anything at all about her last moment with her mother?
    Yeah, I can easily imagine a conversation with Meg and her fiance (or anybody) that goes something like this, "One minute, I'm sitting there with her, watching her complain about walnuts, and the next minute, she's dead." 
  • Seems like the whole point of the fakeout would be to pretend that the mom said some deep-ass thing that would make Meg feel much better.

    Or to bring Meg's search for a deep-ass thing that doesn't exist to an end by any means? I feel like I'm trying too hard to defend my theory. We'll see what the show will actually say about it.
  • SOOMOOSOOMOO Nottingham
    Anyone think John will take Kevin's hand print to be read by Isaac ?
    brewseveltA_Ron_Hubbard
  • Evie and her friends in the trailer was a big surprise to me. Totally caught me off-guard.

    But as far as predictions go, no, you don't get credit if you predicted "the girls ran away or joined the GR or..." And I think the real shocking thing is not just that they ran away to join the GR, but they are going to be a major part of a plot against Miracle, TX (probably violent, possibly suicidal). If anyone predicted THAT, they get credit.
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    A couple practical details that bother me:

    Meg and the GR as a whole not being arrested after the bus prank. I hate to get all "in the real world" on this show because so often the world of this show is different, and I hate to nitpick that stuff. But as mentioned on the cast, the government and the population already is hostile to the GR. That's established. I don't see how she isn't arrested for that. 

    If it turns out the GR used C4 on the lake/spring/river, that's kinda weak. Seems like a lot of geological and explosives knowledge is needed there to make sure it goes off without a hitch. Not to mention the police and maybe the feds being completely inept when searching a crime scene. And what's gained by draining the lake?





  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    Damn I stated earlier that I liked the bar song. I didn't know that was a cover of the When In Rome song The Promise. I should have known that, I gotta do some kind of penance for not knowing my eighties tines. Well thanks to the podcast for setting me straight.
  • kingbee67 said:

    Damn I stated earlier that I liked the bar song. I didn't know that was a cover of the When In Rome song The Promise. I should have known that, I gotta do some kind of penance for not knowing my eighties tines. Well thanks to the podcast for setting me straight.

    Geez, I recognized the song, but did not realize it was that old! 
  • edited December 2015
    Just listened to the podcast, and had a thought when you guys were discussing whether there is someone else in Jarden that was connected to Evie's plan/the GR and if it's Erika. I don't know if it's Erika (not totally impossible imo) but I think someone has to be. I remembered when in season 1 Kevin Sr. says to Kevin something along the lines of "when the departure happened, we all looked in the mirror and none of us wondered why we were still here, we fucking knew." That is basically the essence of the GR. That the people who remained are guilty. So I can totally see how someone in Jarden would feel like instead of being spared, this was the guiltiest town of all. Could the GR have originated in Jarden? We haven't seen any obvious members there, but we do know that leaders of the houses can pretty much change clothes and speak whenever they like. If it's a top-down organization I can see some kind of GR Queen Bee sitting at the top of the chain orchestrating everything, maybe from Jarden.

    Another thing I wonder is if Meg's action is targeted at Jarden as a whole, then was it a pure coincidence that they faked the disappearance on John's birthday? I don't know if I buy that.

    Going back to the possible insider thought: is there a connection between the GR not speaking and Erika's hearing loss? I feel like the latter one really has to be explained, or why make the character deaf if there is no plot point there?
  • Just listened to the cast, and I wanted to add to the conversation of Meg and when she started hatching her plan to do whatever she's going to do in Jarden.

    I have no idea when Meg became fixated on taking Jarden down, but I don't think it was when she spit on the ground in Jarden. I don't think she's that type of mastermind who starts planning this kind of thing years out. Nothing about her in season one hints at a long con to me. Plus, I don't think Lindelof or Perotta were thinking that far ahead when writing season one as they were probably just focused on book material.

    When she did become much more radical after taking over the Mapleton branch, I'm sure she started coming up with ideas to really take things further than the GR ever planned on and her experience in Jarden was probably one of the first things that she thought of in terms of how she could make a big splash.
  • Quick casting note: The African-American GR woman who confronted Meg was Tara's mom on True Blood.
    A_Ron_Hubbard
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    Zinzan said:

    kingbee67 said:

    Damn I stated earlier that I liked the bar song. I didn't know that was a cover of the When In Rome song The Promise. I should have known that, I gotta do some kind of penance for not knowing my eighties tines. Well thanks to the podcast for setting me straight.

    Geez, I recognized the song, but did not realize it was that old! 
     
    I knew it from Napoleon Dynamtine...hahah, that movie has a great soundtrack actually 
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    NikkiP said:

    Quick casting note: The African-American GR woman who confronted Meg was Tara's mom on True Blood.

    Holy shit!  I didn't recognize her not being strung out and half-crazy.  Granted, she's a GR, but you know what I mean.
    NikkiP
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