210 - "Palindrome"

A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
Director: Adam Arkin
Writer: Noah Hawley
A man, a plan, a canal; Panama!
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Comments

  • Love the cold open!
    Elisa
  • JasmynPJasmynP Washington, DC
    New info about Hanzee's heritage. I didn't see that coming.
    Elisa
  • Woof. How did that go from so epic two episodes ago to this? Wasn't really a big fan of the ending, although I'm not sure what I was expecting. What on earth was the reasoning of the aliens?
    MarcoInSD
  • Yeah, I don't think that worked.
  • Hmm. Well okay than. Kind of a let down. Loved the rest of the season, but that was all over the place. Felt like they shoehorned in a lot of stuff
  • JasmynPJasmynP Washington, DC
    What the heck happened here? I still enjoyed uniqueness of it and some of the artful things Holly and Arkin did, but what the heck? They definitely nailed absurd.
    Elisa
  • JasmynPJasmynP Washington, DC
    OK so I'm trying to think through this. I seem to remember the movie ending with Marge and her husband going to bed or at least there was a scene with having a sweet goodnight moment so maybe the ending had to do with that.

    I'm not sure why to make of Peggy's hallucinations except to say that her desire to actualize could be the result of her intentional denial of the fact that she has poor mental health (she has to constantly be reminded of gravity of her actions and her symptoms are exacerbated by stress.) The more I watched, the more it seemed that she was not running away from Ed, but from herself. The fact that she still wanted to go to California even after her "burden" died confirms for me that Ed had nothing to do it with. Ed also says as much.

    Hanzee being the son of the maid and Otto (if I understood that right shed a little more light on why he had the change of heart. Having never been fully accepted and treated as second class will bring that out of anybody. Maybe as things developed with Rye and the whole situation for worse and worse if could be that he just got tired of that life and saw no way out for himself except to exterminate the Gerhards. (That choose of word is intentional)

    I've got nothing on Hank and his pictorial Esperanto or three alien.

    As for Mike Milligan, all he needs is a TPS report. That was hilarious and strangely, I felt bad for him.

    Questions that I hope you guys can answer:
    Was it always late 70's? Mike is told that the 80s are over. I thought it was more like early to mid 70's was there a major time jump?

    Why didn't we get a resolution with Molly's Mom's cancer? Who introduces cancer and such a heartwarming story with no definitive ending.

    Did the kids get the buckle or the belt from Hazee...or worse?

    I've got others, but I'll leave these three for now.




    hypergenesbElisa
  • I loved it.

    I've always loved the end of Raising Arizona, so loved the beginning of this finale.

    The dude told Mike the 70's were over.

    I think we know Betsy dies. No reason to end the season with her death.
    pavlovsbellElisaUnderwoodhypergenesbDeestannisang
  • I loved it. I think it hit all the right character beats. Perfect epilogue for the season.

    Hanzee's story is left open enough to give us more story in future seasons. Perhaps the deaf kid is the one from season 1 - raised up under Hanzee.
    pavlovsbellUnderwoodDaveyMac
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    Man... this is definitely one I'll need to watch again. Really disappointing. Nothing awful mind you; just felt like it ended without much happening. Maybe it will sit a little better on second viewing.
  • edited December 2015
    "The kid that Otto had with the maid" ... I knew it! I still feel like they dropped the ball on Hanzee's motivations. Last episode they needlessly muddled that up.
    steph_bElisa
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    I loved it.  So many wonderful or tragic little moments among the bigger, surprising ones that made me grin, like future Molly and family, young Numbers and Wrench, and Mike getting the corporate Vic Mackey ending.  And wait, Hanzee is the Fargo boss from S1?  Huh.  I'm going to have to think on this finale before I can form coherent thoughts.
    steph_bElisahypergenesbghm3DaveyMac
  • I don't know what to think about it yet, my mind drifted a lot. I thought when Betsy was talking about her dream the camera was going to pan to an old Hanzee preparing to shoot up the birthday party. I paused the foot chase because I couldn't get closing time out of my head from those damned split screens.

    And I just happened to watch Fargo 1x06 these week and the boss eating the freshly killed and fried fish says just about the same thing Hanzee said on the bench. Hanzee was tired of "this life" but he didn't give it up quickly after Sioux Falls. Maybe one of those fighting boys becomes that boss. That was definitely at least young Fringe hit man on the field.

    NikkiP
  • So Hanzee was the Fargo boss from season one and we got to see a young Mr Wrench and Mr. Numbers playing ball on the field?
    Elisa
  • I hope Hanzee made it safely to Winnipeg.
    Elisa
  • ClaretoClareto New Zealand
    edited December 2015
    John_Nada said:

    So Hanzee was the Fargo boss from season one and we got to see a young Mr Wrench and Mr. Numbers playing ball on the field?


    Oh shit, I wondered what the point of them doing sign language was. Duh!
    John_NadaElisa
  • Did anyone else get a Star Wars prequel vibe from that last Hanzee scene?
    Elisa
  • ZinzanZinzan ATL
    edited December 2015
    A few thoughts:
    * As mentioned, I loved the Raising Arizona-Esque "I had a dream" montage.
    * The visual end of all the Gerharts (including Simone) was pretty powerful.
    * Loved that Ed died in a meat locker. And loved that he was able to self-actualize in his dying moments.
    * Peggy's "just like in the movie" delusions caught me by surprise, but were entirely believable for her character.
    * The story Lou told about the South Vietnamese Chinook pilot is a true story. It moved me when I saw the PBS documentary about the 40th anniversary of the Fall of Saigon this past year, and Patrick Wilson nailed it.
    * I know this season worked for me because I'm excited to do a Season 1 rewatch in the coming weeks, and I'm excited for a Season 3! As much as I enjoyed Season 1, I wasn't sure they could pull off a second season.
    pavlovsbellsteph_bElisaDaveyMac

  • This episode was brilliant, it was one of those episodes of TV as I'm watching I just feel its brilliance, like when I saw Shawshank Redemption for the first time.   Hank's speech about creating one language broke me, it was so beautiful.  Ted Danson, give him a supporting Emmy.  I loved the scene in the car with Peggy and Lou, how Peggy is right about the trials of women, but so wrong in just not seeing what she's done.  Or maybe she does see it, but is afraid to look.  I thought she was going to try to make a run for it.  

    Mike's ending was what he deserved, even though I like the character, enjoy your boring, yet rich life.  

    I can't wait for season 3! 
    UnderwoodElisaDaveyMac
  • I was also underwhelmed by this finale, nothing new really happened.
    One thing I can't remember for the life of me is, what happened to Charlie Gerhardt? Was he killed off? The last I remember is him being in the jail cell. Have we seen him since? Unless I forgot his death, he is the last surviving Gerhardt and should be out of prison in a couple years.
  • Charlie is in jail.
  • Hm. I kept waiting for him to show up in the finale somehow, since they made such a point of the Gerhardts being eradicated. I was sure they'd bring him back as the last smoking gun after everyone's forgotten about him.
  • I felt Charlie's story ended when Bear accepted the deal at the police station siege. Never expected to see him again, but I guess I can understand your interest.

    Oh, one more comment I forgot to make:
    War Pigs!
    Elisa
  • UnderwoodUnderwood Philadelphia, PA
    I loved this episode. I appreciate a beautiful character driven episode just as much as any action packed one. some of the dialog between Hank and Betsey, Lou and Peggy, Mike and the Buffalo mobster... moving stuff.
    pavlovsbellhypergenesbsteph_bElisaDaveyMac
  • AdmountAdmount Denton, Texas
    edited December 2015
    There were a lot of good things to like about this episode, but some things fell flat for me and left me feeling disappointed. Hanzee's ending seemed shoehorned in there. I also didn't like Hank's story about wanting to make an archetypal language. It just seemed like the mark of a much lesser show to have a character say "Oh hey, what about that one thing?" in the epilogue and have it not affect the story in any way, or even give us insight into Hank's character while the story was going on.

    I was on the fence about the UFO thing, and I almost thought it wasn't going to be mentioned this episode at all, which might have been an interesting nod to how absurd the last episode was. But then they had a throw-away line about that too that messed it up for me. It was a decent episode overall, but my least favorite of the season by far.

    I still think this season was incredible, and I can't wait to see what they come up with for season 3.
    LiquidTheory
  • There were a lot of good things to like about this episode, but some things fell flat for me and left me feeling disappointed. Hanzee's ending seemed shoehorned in there. I also didn't like Hank's story about wanting to make an archetypal language. It just seemed like the mark of a much lesser show to have a character say "Oh hey, what about that one thing?" in the epilogue and have it not affect the story in any way, or even give us insight into Hank's character while the story was going on.

    I was on the fence about the UFO thing, and I almost thought it wasn't going to be mentioned this episode at all, which might have been an interesting nod to how absurd the last episode was. But then they had a throw-away line about that too that messed it up for me. It was a decent episode overall, but my least favorite of the season by far.
    It's funny in art and entertainment... beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

    I felt Hank's story about developing that picto-language did tell us something about his character, and how he dealt with loss, and I thought Ted Danson did a great job with it.

    And the "throw-away line" about the UFO? When he said that, I chuckled and thought it was the appropriate nod to what happened. The basic jist of the story (as far as the police report is concerned) is that this shootout went down, the Gerharts are finished, Hank got shot, Ed and Peggy ran away, Hanzee went after them, and Lou and Ben gave chase. The UFO? Well, let's just keep this to ourselves.

    The Hanzee ending? Well, I don't know whether or not it was shoe-horned in. Hopefully, we'll see a post-mortem interview with Noah Hawley. I think it was a cool idea to set up Numbers and Wrench. I'm sure if Noah Hawley were to do it again, he may have cast someone to look a little more Native American as Tripoli in Season 1, and maybe made some kind of suggestion that he was or used to be a bad ass, but it's too late for that now.

    But at least they didn't have him "become" Malvo. Too big a leap to believe that Hanzee could transform into Malvo's personality. But I can accept an appearance change.

    I still think this season was incredible, and I can't wait to see what they come up with for season 3.


    Here, here! I think as long as the Solversons are involved, it'll be great.
    AdmountpavlovsbellElisaDaveyMac
  • On another of my Fargo casts, they mentioned last week that the Coen brothers said they have a lot of unfinished scripts because they don't know how to end movies. You can see that evidence in some of the ones they have finished. So is the ending to this season Coen-esque because it wrapped up oddly?

    Clearly you can say that and people will. But I hope for next season they think about the balance between being Coen-esque and adequately serving your own story. It takes place in the Coen universe, but does that universe extend into the writer's room? How far does it extend into the audience? They should think about those questions.

    I liked some things and didn't like others. It hit some flat notes. If you had bad feelings last week, this didn't salve your wounds.
    Admount
  • NathanNathan Winterfell, The North, Westeros
    Would have loved a post credits stinger of Nick Offerman and Bob Odenkirk trying to get Peggy aquitted. SHE'S INNOCENT I TELL YA! IT'S UNPROVABLE! etc etc

    Also, Charlie gets out of prison 5 years later to find...nothing left.
    steph_b
  • AdmountAdmount Denton, Texas
    Zinzan said:

    There were a lot of good things to like about this episode, but some things fell flat for me and left me feeling disappointed. Hanzee's ending seemed shoehorned in there. I also didn't like Hank's story about wanting to make an archetypal language. It just seemed like the mark of a much lesser show to have a character say "Oh hey, what about that one thing?" in the epilogue and have it not affect the story in any way, or even give us insight into Hank's character while the story was going on.

    I was on the fence about the UFO thing, and I almost thought it wasn't going to be mentioned this episode at all, which might have been an interesting nod to how absurd the last episode was. But then they had a throw-away line about that too that messed it up for me. It was a decent episode overall, but my least favorite of the season by far.
    I felt Hank's story about developing that picto-language did tell us something about his character, and how he dealt with loss, and I thought Ted Danson did a great job with it.

    And the "throw-away line" about the UFO? When he said that, I chuckled and thought it was the appropriate nod to what happened. The basic jist of the story (as far as the police report is concerned) is that this shootout went down, the Gerharts are finished, Hank got shot, Ed and Peggy ran away, Hanzee went after them, and Lou and Ben gave chase. The UFO? Well, let's just keep this to ourselves.



    I can definitely see where you're coming from on those points. I do think the language is a good insight into Hank's character, and the UFO might even be an interesting element. I suppose they might have both worked better for me if they had been earlier in the season. Like if I learned something about how Hank deals with loss, and then I get to see him in action after that revelation. Or if the UFO thing had time to settle in and didn't feel like the climax of the season. I don't entirely disagree with the show's choices, but maybe it's most accurate to say that I like where they're going with almost all of the characters, but I wish the pacing of their progression had been a little different. But who knows! I might feel differently on a re-watch.
    Zinzan said:

    The Hanzee ending? Well, I don't know whether or not it was shoe-horned in. Hopefully, we'll see a post-mortem interview with Noah Hawley. I think it was a cool idea to set up Numbers and Wrench. I'm sure if Noah Hawley were to do it again, he may have cast someone to look a little more Native American as Tripoli in Season 1, and maybe made some kind of suggestion that he was or used to be a bad ass, but it's too late for that now.

    The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. It probably would have worked perfectly for me if the mob boss had looked more like Hanzee. Maybe George Lucas can make a special edition and fix it for me! I was pretty satisfied with the episode overall and agree with many of the positive points made above.
    ZinzanElisa
  • AdmountAdmount Denton, Texas
    NikkiP said:

    On another of my Fargo casts, they mentioned last week that the Coen brothers said they have a lot of unfinished scripts because they don't know how to end movies. You can see that evidence in some of the ones they have finished. So is the ending to this season Coen-esque because it wrapped up oddly?

    That's an interesting possibility. I might be in the minority in saying that I would enjoy that if it was actually the intent. As long as they don't commit to making weird endings for the sake of weird endings every season!
    NikkiP
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