210 - "Palindrome"

135

Comments

  • AshleyAshley Atlanta, GA

    Drew said:

    All this salt.

    Finale was great. Season was great. Second best show of the year behind The Americans season 3. Boom.

    Yeah, I guess give me some rubber boots and an umbrella and call me Morton's.



    I'm guessing we're in for another bummer of a podcast then? lol

    Will you guys be doing a season wrap-up cast, or is this it?

    Elisa
  • Ashley said:

    Drew said:

    All this salt.

    Finale was great. Season was great. Second best show of the year behind The Americans season 3. Boom.

    Yeah, I guess give me some rubber boots and an umbrella and call me Morton's.



    I'm guessing we're in for another bummer of a podcast then? lol

    Looks like it. No offense to Jim and A Ron, because they are certainly entitled to their opinion, but I'll probably skip the podcast. Just like A Ron did not care for Sepinwall's review this week because they aren't on the same page, I won't enjoy the podcast. I actually appreciate the heads-up in this (and last week's) thread.

    But it's all good. I enjoy hearing them on The Leftovers, and Better Call Saul and GoT will be back before you know it...
    ElisaAshleyOcean
  • edited December 2015
    This isn't bait, but I thought I'd throw it out there based on three pages of reactions.

    How much, if any, can these split reactions be attributed to the different ways that males/females connect?

    I attended a Breaking Bad finale party and the consensus was that women were engaged with the emotional closure between Skyler/Walt, while the men were waiting for the machine gun.  I think similar things happened at Jim and A.Ron's party?

    So the Fargo finale side steps the action and leans in hard with the emotions.  It appears that female viewers connected stronger with the material, based on this thread.  Or they're just more expressive and there's absolutely no connection. 
    Dee
  • @hypergenesb, I agree with you that it needs to work whether you've seen the film being referenced or not.
  • broompersonbroomperson the Iron Islands
    GredalBee said:

    This isn't bait, but I thought I'd throw it out there based on three pages of reactions.

    How much, if any, can these split reactions be attributed to the different ways that males/females connect?

    I attended a Breaking Bad finale party and the consensus was that women were engaged with the emotional closure between Skyler/Walt, while the men were waiting for the machine gun.  I think similar things happened at Jim and A.Ron's party?

    So the Fargo finale side steps the action and leans in hard with the emotions.  It appears that female viewers connected stronger with the material, based on this thread.  Or they're just more expressive and there's absolutely no connection. 

    @GredalBee


    Im a guy and I loved how Peggy's story ended up going. Really disliked the end to Milligans storyline, the Hank sign language BS, the alien BS, and the endless Vietnam stories. 
  • DrewDrew indianapolis
    I have not seen a community fall apart like the fans of this show have in the last 2 episodes ever. It's weird because it's near the level of how people discount an entire series because they didn't like the finale, like bro how does that discount the amazing work that came before it? How does 2 episodes discount the other 8 that had near 0 complaints.
    steph_bhypergenesbZinzanFlashGordonDeeDaveyMac
  • Drew said:

    I have not seen a community fall apart like the fans of this show have in the last 2 episodes ever. It's weird because it's near the level of how people discount an entire series because they didn't like the finale, like bro how does that discount the amazing work that came before it? How does 2 episodes discount the other 8 that had near 0 complaints.

    Yeah, it's like a switch just got flipped with some viewers. 

    I mentioned in the thread for the last episode that a few weeks earlier, A Ron made a comment on the podcast about how he was all in on the UFO references, and (I think this was an example and not a prediction) at the end of the season, if Mike Milligan and the Kitchen brother popped off their heads and were revealed to be bug-eyed aliens, he'd be all for it. Up to that point, Mike Millligan's Jabberwocky bothered him more than the UFOs, and I was feeling the other way around.

    Then the UFO shows up at the showdown, and I was fine with it, considering the groundwork that had been laid up to this point. 

    For others, the UFO was too much. And suddenly, the Coen call backs were too much, the connections to Season 1 were too forced, etc.


    AshleyOcean
  • FlashGordonFlashGordon Leeds, UK
    edited December 2015
    I think getting the resolution right is important for good work to really stand up though, like Lost was this writ large, so much high quality interesting hours of TV, that just kind of fell short at the end, and I'm on the pro/positive side of this Fargo finale debate.

    The fact that people got so heavily invested in a show is a sign that it's quality anyway, my view with TV in general that if it's largely high quality but flawed in places, it's can still be great viewing, like i liked True Detective season 2 mostly for what it was, then you have the occasional breaking bad or TD season1 in near perfect form & style to blow you away


    The forums needs an acronym for "yeah well that's just like your opinion man" YWTJLYOM isnt gonna fly.
    ElisaNikkiPDaveyMac
  • edited December 2015
    Drew said:

    I have not seen a community fall apart like the fans of this show have in the last 2 episodes ever.

    That tells you something about the show that you just don't see from your perspective, not about the viewers.
    Drew said:

    It's weird because it's near the level of how people discount an entire series because they didn't like the finale, like bro how does that discount the amazing work that came before it? How does 2 episodes discount the other 8 that had near 0 complaints.

    Discounting an entire series based on a finale is actually a different thing. With LOST for example, the finale was 1 out of 121 episodes, or less than 1% of the series. With your Fargo example, 2 out of 10 episodes is 20% of the content. Twenty percent is beyond statistically significant enough to validly affect how you feel.
  • edited December 2015
    @broomperson

    I agree with most of that.  The most interesting living character is running around with an automatic weapon and half his face burnt (I get why they named him Hanzee Dent now), but instead they ramp down with these emotional conversations that only tangentially apply to the story.  I'm just pondering why that worked so well for others.

    For UFO haters - Did you have a problem with the UFO or the execution of the UFO? They gave us a fully rendered flying saucer that had condensation dripping off it.  If they had only used the lens flares, which would distract Bear and get the same result, would that have worked better?
  • WarpFoxWarpFox Nashville, TN
    I think my main problem with the whole UFO thing is that it was pointless. Just because it was foreshadowed and shoehorned into almost every episode doesn't make it good. Its bearing on the plot was almost nil, and it shows up just in time to save a main character from being killed (which isn't a "payoff", but rather a Deus ex Machina), then leaves. It seemed like weirdness for weirdness's sake.
  • broompersonbroomperson the Iron Islands
    GredalBee said:

    @broomperson

    I agree with most of that.  The most interesting living character is running around with an automatic weapon and half his face burnt (I get why they named him Hanzee Dent now), but instead they ramp down with these emotional conversations that only tangentially apply to the story.  I'm just pondering why that worked so well for others.

    For UFO haters - Did you have a problem with the UFO or the execution of the UFO? They gave us a fully rendered flying saucer that had condensation dripping off it.  If they had only used the lens flares, which would distract Bear and get the same result, would that have worked better?

    I think the entire UFO storyline was bullshit. I think it had no business being such a big part of the season and really the Catalyst for it. It also makes me angry because there no hinting to UFOs in season 1 or the movie (at least i dont think) and that just takes me out of the immersion in the universe. It's just Noah Hawley being too cute. And frankly i'm pissed off about it. Noah Hawleys need too COVER this season in bells and whistles and shiny references and craziness took away from my enjoyment. And usually like that type of stuff, but it has to be subtle. This was not. It was ham fisted and pretentious. Tell the damn story. 


    Now I'm hearing season 3 is gonna be about selfies... Is Noah Hawley gonna ruin one of my favorite shows?
  • did we ever learn how Lou got his limp? Patrick Wilson was limping in Molly's graduation but I cant remember him being shot or injured during this season. I thought Peggy was going to drive the car into the phone booth or Hanzee was going to cause a crash when Lou was driving Peggy back to Minnesota. 
  • broompersonbroomperson the Iron Islands
    The Tripoli/Hanzee shit is some of the biggest BOWLSHIT i've ever come across. I don't even want to think about this season anymore. 
  • broompersonbroomperson the Iron Islands
    Noah Hawley can take his theater of the absurd and shove it up his ass
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Man, there's a lot of rage about a TV show.
    steph_bElisahypergenesbpavlovsbell
  • Seems to be snowballing in a disconcerting way. 
    Elisahypergenesbpavlovsbell
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Ashley said:

    Drew said:

    All this salt.

    Finale was great. Season was great. Second best show of the year behind The Americans season 3. Boom.

    Yeah, I guess give me some rubber boots and an umbrella and call me Morton's.



    I'm guessing we're in for another bummer of a podcast then? lol

    Will you guys be doing a season wrap-up cast, or is this it?

    This pod wasn't as "bad" as last week's. We both enjoyed the finale for what it was. Some interesting discussion on women in Fargo. Some spontaneous Bon Jovi singing happened.
    DeeDaveyMacJamesNikkiP
  • broompersonbroomperson the Iron Islands
    edited December 2015
    yeah im done haha. I get it i over did it a little bit but I don't have a podcast to go off on so i did it here @Zinzan

    Just very disappointed and upset at the direction the show took 
    Zinzan
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Can we move away from discussing everyone's opinions, please? One of the reasons things are getting a bit heated is everyone just "not getting" how some one could enjoy or not enjoy this show.  Like, once opinions are given, and a round or two of "why" and "becauses" are exchanged, ain't no where to go but south.  

    I think we've reached that for season two of Fargo.  If anyone has something new to discuss, feel free.  I'll start.  Noah Hawley says he never intended people to understand that Hanzee was Otto's illegitimate son.  http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/12/16/fargo-12-key-answers-from-creator-noah-hawley

    I think that's an incredible statement.  I disagree with his opinion, but you know me and the whole authorial intent argument.  ;)
    hypergenesbsteph_b
  • WarpFoxWarpFox Nashville, TN
    davemcb said:

    did we ever learn how Lou got his limp? Patrick Wilson was limping in Molly's graduation but I cant remember him being shot or injured during this season. I thought Peggy was going to drive the car into the phone booth or Hanzee was going to cause a crash when Lou was driving Peggy back to Minnesota. 

    Lou makes a comment in season one about taking a bullet in the hip during a traffic stop and retiring afterwards.
    davemcb
  • More polarizing - Lost or Fargo?
  • broompersonbroomperson the Iron Islands
    I never saw Lost, so I can't really comment. But from what I've seen the Fargo subreddit is almost 100% positivity. Anyone who says something even a little negative gets downvoted to hell and called a mouth breathing idiot.


    But from what I know, a lot of people did not like Lost. And I feel like the large majority of Fargo fans, judging from people on here, Twitter, and /r/fargotv don't have huge problems and loved this season. 







  • walktheskywalkthesky New York
    edited December 2015
    Sorry A.Ron but I have to say I loved the whole season while I see the reasons for dislike.

    Hanzee = MIles Tripoli who's the Kansas City Boss season 1. Wow. Who's taken down by Malvo, Wow.

    Best scene was Betsies vision, wow
    Elisa
  • DaveyMacDaveyMac Tokyo
    edited December 2015
    As A.Ron said earlier, the podcast isn't nearly as negative as last week's. I'm only halfway through it, but I'm enjoying the cast so far. I was pleasantly surprised at how positive Jim's take on the finale is.

    Also I have to say, on the subject of selfies, the quote from the link that A.Ron posted had Hawley saying that he "likes the idea that we're now living in a very selfie-oriented culture where people photograph what they're eating and put it up for other people to see. It feels like a social dynamic that is very antithetical to the sort of Lutheran pragmatism of the region."

    I think it's an overstatement to say the next season will be about selfies, at least based on that quote. To me it just says that the culture we live in now will be a big influence and, depending on how he handles it, it could be really fascinating. No sense in writing it off the season before it's even been written.
    Underwood
  • @A_Ron_Hubbard I never saw Hanzee as an illegitimate son. When I first met my wife, and my two step sons they also had a boy, who basically had been abandoned by his father living with them. I always saw this boy as my wife's son and he was treated as such. I saw Hanzee in the same light as the story progressed. My view point may be different and not part of the consensus however.
    Elisa
  • JamesJames southern California
    At the end of Fargo the movie Marge shoots Peter Stormare's character in the leg as he flees, arresting him and taking him to jail. I had a number of friends who were bugged by this ending as they wanted an unpredictable evil like Grimsrud to die horribly (the usual ending for movie villains). But the Coen's have, as far back as I can recall, only killed off a big villain in a big scene once, in Raising Arizona. Mostly they get a comeuppance and just go on, the way it works in the real world. Lorne Malvo's fate was that of a traditional non-Coen villain.

    This ending recalls the Coens more than the ending of season one, in my opinion. I liked it a lot. It messed with expectations about the fates of Betsy and Hank, and of Ed too (I expected he would die only if Peggy died as well).

    That said, I enjoyed season one as well -- I don't know if I have a preference.
    Zinzanhypergenesbsteph_b
  • I loved the entire season. I don't understand why everyone is so upset about the UFO - it started the whole thing. If Rye doesn't see one in the road, Peggy doesn't hit him etc. They set this up all season long and I was happy it paid off. 
    The Raising Arizona and No Country references were great - two of my favorite Coen Bros. films. 
    Also Hanzee specifically says he wants a new face - again love the callback back to season one. 
    excellent job and amazing performances all around. 
    UnderwoodElisa
  • DrewDrew indianapolis
    Man A-Ron do you really not see a difference between someone being forced to go to war and someone hitting a person, driving home with them in their windshield and essentially being the catalyst for a gang war?
    Elisa
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