Full Metal Jacket

elgat0elgat0 Clearwater
To @A_Ron_Hubbard & @Jim, I listened to your podcast this morning.  Your takes in the podcast along with subject matter left a lot of room to discuss/argue.  This is one of the reasons that I love Kubrick's movies is that he structures open ended enough to challenge the viewer to ask tough questions and refrains from spoon feeding the answers.

Regarding your discussion of the ending, the shooting of the girl and the use of the phrase "Hardcore" to describe it.   I interpreted like Sonny from the Godfather, that its one thing to let loose with an automatic weapon from 100 yards and another to calmly shoot someone in the head point blank while looking in their eyes.

I had thought the Marines were strictly all volunteer, but I did google it and discovered they take draftees during Vietnam.  I remember as a kid hearing some guys would enlist in the military service of their choice rather than wait to be drafted and assigned a service.  The draft was ended at the tail end of the war to curtail the Anti-War Protest movement.  In my opinion, it left us with a better, more professional military and also one that is comprised of a much smaller slice of our society.  The ramifications of that fact can be troubling since we've entered a decade plus of the Permanent War on Terror.

Finally, I would strongly recommend Paths of Glory and Spartacus.  Paths of Glory is a terrific anti-war film on WW I, which I feel is the first film in Kubrick's canon that is a must watch.  Spartacus has great spectacle and note worthy acting, in particular Charles Laughton and Peter Ustinov.  Kubrick did distance himself from this film since he did not have creative control.

Thanks again for the discussion of this film and to the member who sponsored it.
MichaelGAntManBeeMelonusk

Comments

  • MichaelGMichaelG Seattle
    edited February 2016
    @elgat0 Agreed on Paths of Glory, it is definitely a must see. I was shocked how ahead of its time it was, especially the tracking shot in the trenches. 

    As a uber-Wire fan, I'm sure ARon and Jim will be interested to know that David Simon has cited Paths of Glory (both film and book), with its depiction of god-like institutions crushing the individual, as a major influence on The Wire's primary theme. Come to think of it, Full Metal Jacket carries a similar theme. 

    Haven't listened to the podcast yet but looking forward to revisiting this incredible movie. Thanks guys.
    AntManBeemanhattnik
  • @A_Ron_Hubbard Was the Monopoly Man the Dan Harmon thing you were trying to think of, where Ace Ventura created a character that looked exactly like the Monopoly man so they could make fun of him for looking exactly like the Monopoly man? I'm not sure if he had another term for it besides Monopoly Man.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    No!  I just found it, "chain-zinger".  The ultimate zinger only works if each preceding part of dialog is different.  An example, in Good Will Hunting, "Do you like apples?"  The ulimate pay off to the joke ONLY works if the yuppie dick plays his part straight.  Knock Knock jokes are like this as well, except everyone knows the rules so not really, and a lot of the humor comes from subversion of the form anyway.  A crude example would be the classic "anXsayzwhat?" that only works if the person is dumb enough to ask "what"?  But movies tend to make them multi-level and multiple-character affairs that just seem overly staged and artificial.  

    Seems like this scene was a prime example of that.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I agree partially with the "hard core" take, I just think it was slightly bizarre given the context, the girl being in terrible pain and begging for the mercy.  It would have been stronger if she was in fact begging for "help", but it also would have really put the thumb on the scales of how we should feel about the event, so...
  • HeffHeff Connecticut
    You can file me solidly in the "If you're trying to kill me and I get the drop on you, you're dead" camp. I'd have happily let her bleed out on the floor, knowing she killed my friends. I think that's a very natural reaction to that kind of situation, though the closest to any sort of combat or military training has been behind a keyboard or controller.
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    edited February 2016
    Barry Lyndon on TCM 7:15 PST tonight 2/9 followed by A Clockwork Orange.
    manhattnik
  • I'll third "Paths of Glory". Fantastic film. I saw it for the first time a couple years back and was really impressed. I had no idea David Simon used it as inspiration for "The Wire", but that makes sense.
    MichaelG
  • DaveyMac said:

    I'll third "Paths of Glory". Fantastic film. I saw it for the first time a couple years back and was really impressed. I had no idea David Simon used it as inspiration for "The Wire", but that makes sense.

    Yea, check this out:  http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-06-26/entertainment/bs-ae-simon-kubrick-0627-20100626_1_humphrey-cobb-great-books-david-simon
    DaveyMac
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    I enjoy when these commissioned casts introduce me to movies I needed to see anyway. I watched this tonight and will be listening to the cast in a bit. 

    I think my favorite part of the movie was the first bit, though. I really loved the Gomer Pyle character, and I loved how you slowly came to realize he wasn't lazy or reprobate; he just had some mental deficiencies. I'm still mulling over the contrast of his moment with the (hilarious) drill sergeant and the main character's moment with the sniper. 


  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    Ended up watching this one tonight since I hadn't seen it in a while and loved the podcast. Don't know how I managed to miss that Arliss Howard played Cowboy. Love that guy; crazy underrated actor. For anyone who wants to see one of his other solid roles, check out Tequila Sunrise. One of my all time favorites.
  • Paths of Glory is a must-see.  There's a terrific tracking shot showing the trench layout that must have definitely inspired future steady cam users. 
    DaveyMac
  • And I would also cast a very strong vote for watching "The Killing."  Sterling Hayden and Elisha Cook, Jr. give stellar performances (Timothy Carey, a superb character actor is also incredibly creepy), the camera-work is stunning with lots of terrific cinematography--think you'd enjoy it a lot, ARon.
    DaveyMac
  • I finally got around to listening and this cast is right up there with "Contact" as one of my favorite commissioned cast conversations. 

    The only slightly sour note for me was Jim's outright dismissal of "Paths of Glory" without having seen it. It may be one of Kubrick's earlier films and may not be loaded with as much symbolism and layers as some of his later work, but as others in this thread have already said, it is a great film in its own right. 

    I also want to second "The Killing". It's gotta be in the conversation when talking about great heist films. Tarantino even said that when he made "Reservoir Dogs" he want it to be his "The Killing". 

    Lastly, on the topic of Kubrick blu-ray releases, I think the reason those blu-ray sets aren't complete is that both "Paths of Glory" and "The Killing" were Criterion Collection releases, so I'm wondering if they now own the distribution rights to those two films and that's why they aren't included on the larger box sets. I'm not sure about "Spartacus". But I know distribution rights plays a major role in why certain collections are often missing films. 
    elgat0
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    @DaveyMac Oh man, I forgot about Contact. I'm going to listen to that one again. God... could you imagine if Kubrick directed it? The movie; not the podcast. Ha ha.
    DaveyMac
  • And I would also cast a very strong vote for watching "The Killing."  Sterling Hayden and Elisha Cook, Jr. give stellar performances (Timothy Carey, a superb character actor is also incredibly creepy), the camera-work is stunning with lots of terrific cinematography--think you'd enjoy it a lot, ARon.

    Right on, man. The Killing is great, especially if viewed in the context of Kubrick's career and development.  I've been liking your takes, @kojiattwood!
  • @Freddy Oh man, I wonder what we would've got in lieu of the beach scene if Kubrick had directed it instead. I did stumble across an article a while back that George Miller was originally slated to direct "Contact" and I would love to have seen what he would've done with it. He said that his film would've been a much more challenging film than the Zemeckis version.
  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    I’m a little late to this party, but I’ll add my voice to the chorus praising Paths of Glory. 

    But, for me, Barry Lyndon will always be the greatest movie ever made. Certainly the most beautifully filmed, and with much not being quite as it seems. Jim and A-Ron are very good at spotting the stories behind the story; I’d love to hear their take on it (if they say boring I may do something drastic). Also, Marisa Berenson. 

    The scene where she’s seduced, in public and with not a word spoken, is genius. And the final duel, with that music, makes me feel, every time, the weight of impending disaster. And the music. 
  • I stopped listening half way through. Just lost any interest and pleasure. It was right around the real world political talk (which is fine. I like political talk. We need more of it. But that also means hearing things you don't want to hear).

    About the part about the US government and related organizations staying in bombed or occupied states to "fix" their mess. Not to get tropish, but would you accept Nazi Germany to stay in Poland or the Ukraine to "fix": their mess? The best thing would be to leave, and never come back again. Just leave. No apologies, no funding political groups, no recovery plans, just leave.

    About the part poo pooing North Korea. NK lost 10% of it's population during the US war on Korea... which was right after Korea's occupation by Imperial Japan. Imagine if the US was invaded, bombed, and 30 million people were killed? 3000 people were killed in 9/11 and that was all the excuse to ramp up expanding their militarily across the globe. NK is a tiny country. It doesn't jail more people than any country on the planet, spend more on its military then the rest of the world combined, it doesn't starts dozens of wars across the globe, doesn't spy on the globe, doesn't have global torture prisons... NK is a boogeyman to justify military build up next to China and Russia.

    Rant over. Maybe I'll enjoy this podcast some other day.
  • Every war is different, some have more noble causes than others, but I don't think it's fair to equate the any US foreign deployments in the last century with Nazi Germany in Europe. 
  • elgat0elgat0 Clearwater
    To all the Kubrick fans posting here, what are your thoughts on "Lolita"?  Besides "The Killing", it's the only Kubrick film that I have not seen.
  • Probably my least favourite Kubrick film, due to some of the MPAA restrictions and me not being the biggest James Mason fan on the planet.  Peter Sellers is his usual brilliant self, though and even a weak Kubrick film is like talking about a weak Beethoven symphony--it's still compelling.
  • MichaelGMichaelG Seattle
    edited February 2016
    MikeO said:

    About the part poo pooing North Korea. NK lost 10% of it's population during the US war on Korea... which was right after Korea's occupation by Imperial Japan. Imagine if the US was invaded, bombed, and 30 million people were killed? 3000 people were killed in 9/11 and that was all the excuse to ramp up expanding their militarily across the globe. NK is a tiny country. It doesn't jail more people than any country on the planet, spend more on its military then the rest of the world combined, it doesn't starts dozens of wars across the globe, doesn't spy on the globe, doesn't have global torture prisons... NK is a boogeyman to justify military build up next to China and Russia.

    Rant over. Maybe I'll enjoy this podcast some other day.

    There's definitely a lot of truth to what you're saying here.  The US is the most powerful country in the world, and for the past 100 years has championed our moral superiority while vilifying other states, cultures, and religions for our own gain. We have done and continue to do a lot of nasty, nasty things. I'm totally on board with that geopolitical point of view; you won't find me defending US Foreign or domestic policies anytime soon. However, I'm not sure the comparison to N. Korea is the hill you wanna die on. I've done a lot of reading and writing about N. Korea, as I find it endlessly fascinating. But, rather than write an essay about it, I'll just put this here.



    Still, to your point, wouldn't it be interesting to see this same verbiage and level of inquiry turned towards the United States government throughout history? My god, we have some skeletons that we have neatly tucked into sterile paragraphs in history books. And ultimately, I think that's exactly what you're getting at.  It's a touchy and uncomfortable conservation to have, but one worth having. 

    For those looking to have their Americentric geopolitical worldview rocked, check out anything by Noam Chomsky. 
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    MikeO said:

    About the part about the US government and related organizations staying in bombed or occupied states to "fix" their mess. Not to get tropish, but would you accept Nazi Germany to stay in Poland or the Ukraine to "fix": their mess? The best thing would be to leave, and never come back again. Just leave. No apologies, no funding political groups, no recovery plans, just leave.

    About the part poo pooing North Korea. NK lost 10% of it's population during the US war on Korea... which was right after Korea's occupation by Imperial Japan. Imagine if the US was invaded, bombed, and 30 million people were killed? 3000 people were killed in 9/11 and that was all the excuse to ramp up expanding their militarily across the globe. NK is a tiny country. It doesn't jail more people than any country on the planet, spend more on its military then the rest of the world combined, it doesn't starts dozens of wars across the globe, doesn't spy on the globe, doesn't have global torture prisons... NK is a boogeyman to justify military build up next to China and Russia.

    I think the comparison to Nazi Germany implementing a Marshall-type plan is just a non-sequitur.  What are you intending to say? That every time a country invades, when ever they are done they should just retreat?  That any invading country is as bad as Nazi Germany?  I don't get it.  

    As far as NK, that's not the point I was trying to make.  North Korea is terrible at taking care of it's people, which is one of the prime ways in which you can grade a regime.  Yes, it is a small country, and it's joke status is probably why it's not involved in dozens of wars, have global torture prisons, or have global spy programs.  They do what they can domestically and in South Korea.  I don't take them seriously as a global threat and said as much.  They lobbed a missileover Japan just to get more international aid.  All the usual jimmies were rustled, all the usual statements were made.

    The United States has done terrible things.  The United States is doing terrible things.  It's kind of tough to find a perfect country, and the ones everyone likes to cite I probably have a thing or two to say about.  And I think we in the US could do a much better job taking care of our people.  That doesn't mean I can't weigh the pros and cons of our existing geopolitics, or judge NK as a brainwashed slave state.  If the US just gets out of the Middle East, that will have consequences.  If we stay, that will also have consequences.  These things can be discussed reasonably, and reasonable people can disagree. 
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    The difference between when we invade a country is we tend to build roads, power plants, hospitals, etc.

    The Nazi's built death camps to commit genocide. It isn't even close to the same thing. Their version of "fixing" things was to further their eugenic ideals to create a master race.

    I'm not saying the US is perfect, but to compare anything we have ever done in history to the Nazi's is a strawman.
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