Saving Private Ryan

HatorianHatorian Dagobah
edited February 2016 in Movies
Great cast guys. hell of a job as always. I was cracking up cuz I had a feeling there would be some suspicious thoughts on me both organizing and winning the league. haha. i assure it was all legit. :) It was a fun league and can't wait to defend my title next year. 

you guys mentioned the brad pitt movie. its called Fury. Definitely recommend it if you are a fan of SPR has that same brutality, gritty, war is hell theme and the action is pretty good. The second act gets a bit hung up on a minor love story though, I think SPR was wise to pass on a love plot. 
ryanfoster

Comments

  • unreadunread Australia
    edited February 2016

    Wow, I recently rewatched Band Of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan, and The Pacific, so this podcast episode is very relevant to my interests right now.


    Band Of Brothers is my favourite thing ever put to screen and I’ve seen it way too many times, but I couldn’t really remember SPR. I know comparing a mini-series to a 2+ hour movie is unfair, but...I don’t know. It was a bit disappointing for some reason. I think the storytelling was a bit hamfisted at times, maybe. Still a great movie, though. That opening scene on Omaha Beach is astounding, and it was interesting to see the other angle of the Normandy invasion from the BoB story.


    I really liked what A.Ron was saying about not knowing how you would react in these situations, if you’d be able to handle it or just freak out and run away. Eugene Sledge actually talks about feeling this way in his memoir, about how being cowardly in battle and letting down his fellow soldiers was one of his biggest fears going in.


    Also, the next Hanks/Spielberg/HBO war series is going to be called either Masters Of The Air or The Mighty Eighth and is based on this book.
    A_Ron_Hubbard
  • DoubleTDoubleT Melbourne, Australia
    edited February 2016
    Yes excellent cast. Has motivated me to give the film another look. @Jim you mentioned that Dan Carlin needs to do a WWII podcast. He hasn't covered the whole war but have you checked out his series on the Eastern Front? It's amazing. Probably my favorite of all his casts.

    http://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-ghosts-of-the-ostfront-series/
    elgat0
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Ooh, I just finished his downfall of the empire series, and wondered what I should tuck into next.  Thanks for the reco!
  • @DoubleT Oh, cool.  I'll have to check that out.  Thanks!
  • elgat0elgat0 Clearwater
    edited February 2016
    DoubleT said:

    Yes excellent cast. Has motivated me to give the film another look. @Jim you mentioned that Dan Carlin needs to do a WWII podcast. He hasn't covered the whole war but have you checked out his series on the Eastern Front? It's amazing. Probably my favorite of all his casts.

    http://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-ghosts-of-the-ostfront-series/

    @Jim & @A_Ron_Hubbard one of the differences between Carlin's WW I series and the Ostfront series, is that both feature the horrors of industrial warfare, but in the Ostfront there was absolutely no quarter given or taken.  To tie back to  SPR, some of the moral quandaries posed in the movie would have been moot in the fighting between Germany & the Soviet Union.  In that conflict, both sides were as malicious as possible.  You are in for a somber treat.
    DoubleT
  • HeffHeff Connecticut
    This is one of my favorite movies, and it was a wonderful surprise to get to listen to you guys cast on it.

    I think along with Mellish's death, the paratrooper who was in the room with him was the most brutal and hopeless. He caught a bullet in the throat and slowly bled out with a friendly soldier (plus Upham downstairs) right nearby, and the gurgling sounds he made and spraying, pooling blood were soul-crushing, and made me think about just how terrified he must have been. It was honestly a relief to see he had died, because the amount of suffering he was in was incredibly evident.

    If you're interested, there are a ton of heroic soldiers who did amazing things for fellow men in combat situations; some notable ones I discovered recently (through the metal band Sabaton's latest album, "Heroes") were "Bull" Allen from Austrailia (who carried a dozen badly wounded American soldiers to safety while under direct fire), Audie Murphy (an American soldier with an amazing record of bravery in battle, including holding off over a hundred Germans while wounded, alone, and under fire), and Franz Stigler (German pilot who escorted a badly damaged American bomber to safety after seeing the wounded men inside - this happened AFTER the bomber had dropped its payload on an aircraft factory, and by all rights Stigler could have blown it out of the air.).

    It's honestly amazing what some men and women are physically and mentally strong enough to do in what I truly believe to be the most stressful, dangerous situation you could possibly end up in.
    unread
  • Hatorian said:

    Great cast guys. hell of a job as always. I was cracking up cuz I had a feeling there would be some suspicious thoughts on me both organizing and winning the league. haha. i assure it was all legit. :) It was a fun league and can't wait to defend my title next year. 


    I can also attest to the legitimacy of the fantasy league. @Hatorian made the shrewd move during the draft to pick both Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski resulting in the double dipping of many yards and TDs. He did go through a rough patch with Gronk out for a good part of the season. But Gronk came back in full force and I knew I was in trouble having to face Justin in the semifinals. He is a well deserving champion and I was more than happy to be a contributor to this cast.
    A_Ron_Hubbard
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    edited February 2016
    We have a congressional medal of honor recipient that graduated from my hometown Mooresville High School, Sammy Davis (not the one you're probably thinking of).  I got to hear him speak and shake his hand.  It was an honor.

  • edited February 2016
    Great podcast. Different theater, but my sister knew one of the soldiers who was part of the first raising of the flag in Iwo Jima (the famous picture was the reenactment of it). She was pretty close with the family, and they all said that he would never, ever talk about the war, and was still haunted by it (this was the late 90s). It is funny because most people who heard about his story would assume he would be bitter about the famous picture being the second raising and not the first one, but he was just fine with it. He simply didn't want the attention or to even talk about it. The one time he talked about it with his family, again in the 90s, and he just broke down crying. N of 1 and all, but since you were wondering about the nightmares ever going away...
    DoubleT said:

    Yes excellent cast. Has motivated me to give the film another look. @Jim you mentioned that Dan Carlin needs to do a WWII podcast. He hasn't covered the whole war but have you checked out his series on the Eastern Front? It's amazing. Probably my favorite of all his casts.

    http://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-ghosts-of-the-ostfront-series/

     

    I wonder if we will ever get past the vestiges of the cold war mentality and have a big budget production of what happened on the Eastern Front. The Russian movies I've seen about it are all small budget productions, and there are very few western productions about it (enemy at the gates being one exception). So many incredible, incredible stories in the east.

    Pavlov's house, the grain elevator, the nightwitches (female pilots using essentially crop dusters to glide at night and bomb the hell out of the German army). Not trying to start a east v west front debate, but there is fertile ground for a great movie or miniseries there.
    DoubleTHatorian
  • Another Dan Carlin one that touches on WWII that I really appreciated was the "Logical Insanity" episode where he talks about the atomic bomb, firebombing in Tokyo, and really gets into the mentality of the people calling the shots during that time period. It's been a while, so I'm a bit hazy on the details, but I think talks about some stuff going on Europe as well. 

    I haven't had a chance to listen to this commissioned cast yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
    Hatorianelgat0AntManBeeA_Ron_HubbardToadie
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited February 2016
    AntManBee said:

    Hatorian said:

    Great cast guys. hell of a job as always. I was cracking up cuz I had a feeling there would be some suspicious thoughts on me both organizing and winning the league. haha. i assure it was all legit. :) It was a fun league and can't wait to defend my title next year. 


    I can also attest to the legitimacy of the fantasy league. @Hatorian made the shrewd move during the draft to pick both Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski resulting in the double dipping of many yards and TDs. He did go through a rough patch with Gronk out for a good part of the season. But Gronk came back in full force and I knew I was in trouble having to face Justin in the semifinals. He is a well deserving champion and I was more than happy to be a contributor to this cast.
    Actually I wasnt the Brady/Gronk guy. I think that was @ryanfoster. Who i played in the championship and luckily won on 1 hail mary from Eli Manning to Rebeun freaking Randle. My team was anchored by Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham. 
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited February 2016
    here was the championship. EDIT. who would have thought Blake Bortles would be the QB on the winning team? and beat Tom Brady no less!

    image
  • Great podcast. Different theater, but my sister knew one of the soldiers who was part of the first raising of the flag in Iwo Jima (the famous picture was the reenactment of it). She was pretty close with the family, and they all said that he would never, ever talk about the war, and was still haunted by it (this was the late 90s). It is funny because most people who heard about his story would assume he would be bitter about the famous picture being the second raising and not the first one, but he was just fine with it. He simply didn't want the attention or to even talk about it. The one time he talked about it with his family, again in the 90s, and he just broke down crying. N of 1 and all, but since you were wondering about the nightmares ever going away...

    DoubleT said:

    Yes excellent cast. Has motivated me to give the film another look. @Jim you mentioned that Dan Carlin needs to do a WWII podcast. He hasn't covered the whole war but have you checked out his series on the Eastern Front? It's amazing. Probably my favorite of all his casts.

    http://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-ghosts-of-the-ostfront-series/

     

    I wonder if we will ever get past the vestiges of the cold war mentality and have a big budget production of what happened on the Eastern Front. The Russian movies I've seen about it are all small budget productions, and there are very few western productions about it (enemy at the gates being one exception). So many incredible, incredible stories in the east.

    Pavlov's house, the grain elevator, the nightwitches (female pilots using essentially crop dusters to glide at night and bomb the hell out of the German army). Not trying to start a east v west front debate, but there is fertile ground for a great movie or miniseries there.

    I don't think Hollywood would ignore the East if they thought the money was there to be taken. I really just don't think many people care enough about that front since it doesn't include American/British soldiers. Enemy at the Gates was a pretty bad movie and didn't help. I do wish Hollywood would do it justice though cuz there is certainly no shortage of epic events. 

    outside of hollyywood thoguh there is a lot of fantastic material on the eastern front. Stalingrad by Antony Beever is an excellent read and there is a Russian production called Stalingrad which is pretty good but obviously in Russian and a lower budget. 
  • edited February 2016
    elgat0 said:

      In that conflict, both sides were as malicious as possible.

    You are aware that the US government rained nuclear fire on men, women, children, pets, homes, churches, etc just because they could ... twice, right?

    As for talk about nobility in war, this is a really depressing aspect of our culture. There is no nobility in war. At best wars are a story (to bring it down home) of a person breaking into a house, trying to rape or kill the occupant and the occupant fending them off - or- it's a story of two guys meeting in an alley to murder one another just because their bosses said to.

    War is death, war is pain, war is humiliation, war is a disease in it's purest putrid form.
    It should get your blood boiled to do everything you can to prevent it from happening. Not to make it into something grand and beautiful or noble. i.e "hollywoodized".

    If a movie about war gets you pumped up, wanting you to see more, then it's pure pornography - even worse - pure propaganda.
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited February 2016
    MikeO said:

    elgat0 said:

      In that conflict, both sides were as malicious as possible.

    You are aware that the US government rained nuclear fire on men, women, children, pets, homes, churches, etc just because they could ... twice, right?


    I highly disagree with this statement. While the use of nuclear weapons in Japan is a highly questionable call it was certainly not done "because they could". It became very clear that Japan was not going to surrender under conventional pressure as witnessed in places like Iwo Jima and Okinawa. The decision to drop the bomb was more about saving millions of lives, both American and Japanese that a mainland invasion would have cost. I do not envy the people who had to make that decision but a mainland invasion of Japan would have killed more Japanese civilians than the bombs did. 

    EDIT: The fact that the US had to drop 2 bombs instead of 1 is proof enough that Japan was not going to easily surrender. The leadership was certainly ready to let their people die fighting any invasion. They only surrendered when they realized it was that or be nuked off the planet.

    With that being said there are historians who believe one of the reasons the bombs were used was a show of power to Russia. Which, if true, is a horrible reason to kill thousands of people. 
    elgat0FlashGordonUnderwood
  • Hatorian said:



    Actually I wasnt the Brady/Gronk guy. I think that was @ryanfoster. Who i played in the championship and luckily won on 1 hail mary from Eli Manning to Rebeun freaking Randle. My team was anchored by Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham. 

    Oh wow. I can't believe my brain scrambled that up. But hey, winning with Bortles over Brady is super impressive no matter how you slice it.
    Hatorian
  • elgat0elgat0 Clearwater
    Hatorian said:

    MikeO said:

    elgat0 said:

      In that conflict, both sides were as malicious as possible.

    You are aware that the US government rained nuclear fire on men, women, children, pets, homes, churches, etc just because they could ... twice, right?


    I highly disagree with this statement. While the use of nuclear weapons in Japan is a highly questionable call it was certainly not done "because they could". It became very clear that Japan was not going to surrender under conventional pressure as witnessed in places like Iwo Jima and Okinawa. The decision to drop the bomb was more about saving millions of lives, both American and Japanese that a mainland invasion would have cost. I do not envy the people who had to make that decision but a mainland invasion of Japan would have killed more Japanese civilians than the bombs did. 

    EDIT: The fact that the US had to drop 2 bombs instead of 1 is proof enough that Japan was not going to easily surrender. The leadership was certainly ready to let their people die fighting any invasion. They only surrendered when they realized it was that or be nuked off the planet.

    With that being said there are historians who believe one of the reasons the bombs were used was a show of power to Russia. Which, if true, is a horrible reason to kill thousands of people. 
    For the reasons that @Hatorian listed, I believe the use of the A Bomb on Japan is arguably more justifiable than the fire bombings of German & Japanese cities that preceded it.  You can argue the A Bomb ended the war in the Pacific, while the military of value of fire bombing cities is much more nebulous compared to the civilian lives taken.

    Of course, this then becomes an argument of moral relativism vs the absolute immorality of the whole thing.  I would also second @DaveyMac recommendation of Dan Carlin's podcast "Logical Insanity" on this topic.
    HatorianDaveyMac
  • @MikeO

    While I do think the "just because they could" language is a little strong and simplistic, I agree completely with the thoughts you expressed about the horror of war and the tragedy of its glorification in our culture.


  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Just war is an incredibly complex topic.  I think the best you can say about war is that it's terrible, but can have individual instances of gallantry, bravery, and compassion, and the best you can hope for is that history judges you fought in a just one and your homeland supports you when you go home. 
    ryanfoster
  • HeffHeff Connecticut
    Even if the war you're fighting in isn't just or right it's entirely possible to be honorable and compassionate in the way you carry yourself and perform your duties.

    Let's take the soldiers in the German army during WWII for example. They were following Hitler's orders, but I'm sure if you look there are plenty of cases of German medics treating injured Allied soldiers, or assisting civilians - not a common topic of discussion, but I doubt the average soldier from a non-warlord driven army is a walking war atrocity waiting to happen.
    ryanfoster
  • I was glad that Band of Brothers came up in the cast. It is definitely a great companion piece to Saving Private Ryan and worth checking out for those who liked SPR but haven't seen BoB.
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited February 2016
    I can only speak from stories but my good high school buddy was a combat engineer in Iraq. The lines between enemy and civilian were very blurry and the wrong decision on who you trusted could cost lives. They were very strict on how they could interact with locals and when driving in "hot" areas they were not allowed to stop for anything. And unfortunately that meant bad things for anything/anyone who happened to cross the humvees. in situations like that it's not a malicious intent to hurt civilians but rather self preservation. Very difficult things to deal with and my buddy still struggles with them.
    ryanfoster
  • edited February 2016
    DoubleT said:

    Yes excellent cast. Has motivated me to give the film another look. @Jim you mentioned that Dan Carlin needs to do a WWII podcast. He hasn't covered the whole war but have you checked out his series on the Eastern Front? It's amazing. Probably my favorite of all his casts.

    http://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-ghosts-of-the-ostfront-series/

    ABSOLUTELY!  This is probably may favorite as well, just behind "Prophets of Doom" (which, btw A_Ron_Hubbard you MUST listen if you haven't).  In fact, listening to "The Ghosts of the Ostfront" almost made me, quite unfairly, feel less about the western front.  In comparion to the Eastern side of the war, our boys had a generally easy go.  I know, again, it's unfair, but hot damn, Dan Carlin really hits home how completely awful the Eastern front was.  

    Regardless, great cast!  My favorite Bald Move stuff is either history related, or even more so, religious related.  Great insights!
    DaveyMacDoubleT
  • "Prophets of Doom" was a great episode and totally insane.
    Toadie
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