Girls, is it pretentious nonsense or a show about finding your way?

kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
edited February 2016 in Other TV
"I just bathed in the stream and ran thru the field to dry myself"

The new season of Girls started last night. At one point I was ready to turn it off. By the end I was thinking this is great. I guess I understand somewhat that these girls are the most clueless ones that ever walked the earth. The part I have a problem with is that I kind of think that the creator of this show is almost as clueless as the characters she has created. I have heard interviews and what not where the creator has talked about her life and the show. I was not impressed from what I heard and I thought that if I knew this person I would kill myself. It most likely may be that I'm old and don't get the new generation of young people. If I have become my parents, shoot me now.
I have watched all the seasons of the show and there has always been a point where I think about bailing but then I get to a moment in a episode where I become hooked by something that hits my emotions dead center. I think the best example was in season 2 where the main girl was in the bath tub singing the Oasis song Wonderwall. I never liked that song that much but the whole thing of her just belting it out made me love that song and the show.This week got me at the point where every thing was wrong, they all came together as friends and made things better. But next week they will go back to screwing each other over and spewing there passive aggressive shit all over each other. At least Marnie's wedding was nice.
I'am I the only one who thinks this way?
Kela15

Comments

  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    I've always liked the show, so I am biased. But you can't be the only one who feels this way. I do wonder, since the show is ending next year, to see what the show has as a final "statement." I think that will say quite a bit. I mean, the characters (realistically) don't change or learn a huge amount despite the repercussions of their shitty behavior. That is frustrating, but also, as I mentioned realistic. I do see it more as a coming-of-age story. but I am not expecting nay huge, changes or mind-blowing switch-ups from here on until the end.
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited February 2016
    I guess to answer your question: it's both. Finding your way when your young is often pretentious :)


    Also, the line "I just bathed in the stream and ran thru the field to dry myself"  

    It's funny and kinda clever because that is completely hippy nonsense, and with the character of, Jessa, specifically saying it, she could be issuing that with complete irony and disgust or it could be totally true. I think a lot of the jokes seem a bit childish on the surface but there is some thought going on behind it. 
  • mike_kmike_k Sunnyvale CA
    I think the show jumped the shark last season. I enjoyed last nights episode, but I'm skeptical that it can remain fresh. Everyone expects it to be awkward and shocking now. That's what made the show so unique. If they're going to continue to rely on that, I wouldn't be surprised if people tune out. Just my humble opinion.
  • MichaelGMichaelG Seattle
    edited February 2016
    @aberry89 I agree completely on your response to this line. It's a ridiculous and mockable statement, but not unlike anything I've heard in my life from people or Jessa's character. In a general sense, wedding days are almost like a free-pass on weird declarations or actions. 

    That's the hard part about Girls. At times, it's infuriating, because I hate them, some more than others, and at more times than others. Ultimately, that's how writing works, I guess? You have to generalize in the nature of your character archtypes, but you have to be specific in your generalizations of your characters. If you don't generalize like this, or prove via specifics, no one relates to your story or your characters. And that's not good and everyone bitches.

    As a white dude with a man-crush on Adam Driver but married to a white gal, I found myself engaged in this story, despite the sometimes annoying character traits. I always find myself torn on Hannah. I feel like I'm confused between loving Lena Dunham, and hating Hannah.  But, I'm pleased that Lena doesn't just simply write Hannah as a character that reflects the best traits of her own personality.

    I have to say, my favorite character is Elijah. 

    But, the most frustrating part of this show, for me, is Marnie and Ray. Essentially, I hate Marnie for her real privilege as an actor and pretend privilege as a character. I love Ray for his interest in the spirited female and his take on transgender politics and the after life, but hate him for the object of his love.  Pull The Graduate, Ray!!! Actually, no, Marnie isn't worth it...

    Still, I was very entertained, and surprised that I found the 30 minutes passing so quickly.


    aberry89Kela15
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    I have such conflicting feelings about this show. I don't hate it - I never hate watch anything - but I hate almost every character. They are insufferable and selfish and pretentious and blind to their own ridiculous privilege and I just cannot stand those kind of people. On the other hand, I watch the show religiously and I'm never bored.
    MichaelGBourbonQueen
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    I'm watching now and I totally forgot how much Marnie's boyfriend looks like that painting that old lady tried to "fix" a few years ago.
    A_Ron_HubbardCecily
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England
    I'm more of a Broad City girl myself.
  • Dee said:

    I have such conflicting feelings about this show. I don't hate it - I never hate watch anything - but I hate almost every character. They are insufferable and selfish and pretentious and blind to their own ridiculous privilege and I just cannot stand those kind of people. On the other hand, I watch the show religiously and I'm never bored.

    This is probably the closest I feel to the show, with the exception that I do get bored at times.  They seem to float around life, looking for something solid and stable to land upon, but whenever they do - they shatter it to pieces.  They call it "finding themselves."  I call it pretentious and selfish and at times lazy.  However, I try to keep in mind that I'm from a different generation (I'm a female that's one of the youngest members of Gen X.).  So, my view on life, work, family is going to be vastly different than the generation they're portraying.
    Dee
  • Dee said:

    but I hate almost every character. They are insufferable and selfish and pretentious and blind to their own ridiculous privilege and I just cannot stand those kind of people.

    This is probably the closest I feel to the show, with the exception that I do get bored at times.  They seem to float around life, looking for something solid and stable to land upon, but whenever they do - they shatter it to pieces.  They call it "finding themselves."  I call it pretentious and selfish and at times lazy. 

    I agree with both of these.  I basically only watch the show because I started it.  I forget what season (maybe 2 seasons ago at the end) I was just about done with the show because I found it boring.  In addition, the 4 main character (aka the girls) I just completely disliked and really found no good qualities in them.  The only characters I could "root" for were Ray and Adam (and Adam only because he was honest even if his character was really odd/weird at times).  I only stayed with the show because my fiancé kept watching it.  Haven't started this season yet but I'm sure we'll get around to it. 
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Girls is just a funnier, better written version of The Jersey Shore.  It's chief joy is watching child-like, oblivious, awful-in-relatively-harmless-ways people set fire to their lives and stare in bewilderment and wonder at the smoking remains.  This routine is broken up by the occasional sighting of a person you've personally known, or more startling, a person you've been.  Girls is like what would happen if all the terrible people you've ever met and all your worst selves got together and decided to be best friends, so it's both easy to laugh at and fairly relate-able. 

    I continue to root for Adam Driver and Zosia Mamet.  Adam's Adam seems the smartest person in the room and just might be capable of personal grown, and Zosia's Shosh seems like the most innocent, so she should be spared. 
    Kela15MichaelG
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    @amyja89  No question, Broad City is a funnier show. I think anyone who doesn't enjoy Girls should go to Broad City instead. I myself can enjoy both. 

    @MichaelG  Eljiah! yes, totally agree. He is fucking great. He always has seemed a charachter that sort of "puts up" with this group of girls, so I think it's easy to relate to him! :)
    amyja89
  • @dochielomn  I'm still watching it because I feel like I invested time and want to see how it plays out.   That season where Hannah was all OCD is where it started to lose me.  It seemed to pop out from nowhere and left just as quickly. I do find myself rooting for Adam and Zosia.  They seem like somewhat decent people.

     Watched the first episode of this new season last night, and man, do I hate Marnie.  She's just insufferable.  Plus, the skinniest girl in the show is wearing SPANX?  I call BS on that.

    On a positive note, I just love Fran (Jake Lacy) and hope it works out with him and Hannah.  He's just too adorable. At first, I thought he was Nicholas Hoult (Beast, X-Men First Class or dudein Mad Max).  They look similar.
    Kela15
  • Kela15Kela15 Malta, Europe
    I too detest the Jessa and Marnie characters for their pettiness and pretentiousness. I really can't understand how such an intelligent man like Ray could fall so very hard for Marnie. Jessa and Adam simply desrve each other, on the other hand. Fran is adorable. Much love for him. I just want to adopt Nippon-living Shosh now :)))) Hannah is as irritating as ever but, hey it's Lena Dunham playing her so I love her to bits. I love this show...
  •  

    @dochielomn  I'm still watching it because I feel like I invested time and want to see how it plays out.   That season where Hannah was all OCD is where it started to lose me.  It seemed to pop out from nowhere and left just as quickly.

     
    BourbonQueen, yeah, I think that season is also where I really started to lose interest in the show and just kept questioning why am I watching week to week. 
    BourbonQueen
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Okay, I love Adam Driver and I find his character one of the most interesting and least annoying, but have you all forgotten he pretty much raped that girl in one of the early seasons? The one who was played by the chick out of UnReal?
    Kela15
  • @Dee I knew he was pretty messed up in the first season, even with his interaction with Hannah. They were pretty crazy with each other, if I recall. I don't remember the rape scene.  
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    @BourbonQueen He was dating a girl whose mum introduced them, I think? And they were having sex but he started getting rough and she was asking him to stop and he wouldn't and then afterwards she was really upset and they broke up and it was super awkward. He was really awful in the early seasons - the character, not the actor. He does seem to have had some growth, but that scene was still pretty shady and they just kind of glossed over it and never mentioned it again.
    Kela15
  • @Dee - I remember that now!!  Yeah, because I really didn't care for him then.  I was glad when Hannah left him because he was kinda creepy in the beginning and treated her like crap.  Of course, now he's matured we see him in a different light.  It's like his dark side (pun intended) was very prominent in the beginning.
    Dee
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    No, I didn't forget.  I have a lot of complicated feelings about Adam.  The question I have, as a man who grew up in a regressive environment and wasn't handed a manual dealing with consent, is, what does a man who rapes a woman but doesn't think of it as rape do when he later realizes he's a rapist?  I've never had sex with a woman without her explicit consent, but I also think I was lucky that I was never put in a position because of my environment, my friends, and my personal views of sex, alcohol and drugs as a teenager, because there was certainly nothing in the popular culture of me growing up that would suggest having sex with a woman who was passed out was wrong, or that pressuring a woman to have sex despite persistent no's was wrong.  At worst, it was something "naughty", that people leered or laughed at in movies, a lot of times it was seen as an acceptable "move".  

    So let's say I lived in the same shithole community with the same shithole popular culture, but I wasn't in a religious cult that valued chastity before marriage, and I was actually invited and attended underage drinking parties, would I be a rapist today?  How would I deal with that kind of retrospective guilt?  How would I atone?  

    I don't expect women to find the plight of such a man all that compelling, but the reality is we're dealing with generations of men who are finding out they are rapists or rape enablers, and there is still probably a generation or two coming down the pike, and what to do with them?  I think people like Pete Campbell and Adam are interesting for that reason, but it's a shame that the dialog seems to be exclusive about arguing whether or not they raped women rather than what we do about that kind of information going forward.  

    Is that crazy?  A genuine question.
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited February 2016
    I don't think the dialogue is exclusive to that, but I also think that Adam really got away with it. The worst that happened was the girl broke up with him and was then frosty when they met later. I don't recall him ever realising that he was in the wrong (I have a terrible memory so correct me if that did actually happen). And A.Ron, you know how much I love Pete despite him doing the exact same thing! They are complex characters, but so often in pop culture the complexity of a man includes "he's kind of rapey sometimes". There are so many examples of this - Don Draper, Jaime Lannister, etc.

    I'm about as hardcore a feminist as it gets, and I have no answer to how we address that. I have seen unnerving studies where men have disclosed incidents that many people would consider sexual assault, but they don't. I don't think ignorance is an excuse though. There is really no societal effort in teaching young boys and men not to grow up and be rapey, only teaching young girls and women how to avoid it. There's the problem.

    In short, no, you're not crazy.
    BourbonQueen
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I don't know that he experienced direct consequences of it, but his one girl friend who got an abortion without informing him or discussing his feelings on the matter I thought was an interesting piece of, well, not comeuppance, because I'm not trying to draw equivalence between the two situations, but more of an "aha" moment.  "Oh, this is what it's like when an intimate partner takes an action without considering the other person's feelings or agency."

    Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if in the final season he gets famous as a actor and a half dozen women come forward with tales of him sexually assaulting them that we never saw on camera.  That could get crazy real.
    Dee
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    The abortion story was really interesting, and now that I think about it, it's things like that that keep reeling me back into Girls. The sympathetic side of me was all "Aww, poor Adam", but the raging feminist was all "Fuck this guy, it's her body how dare he get angry etc etc". For all the criticism Lena Dunham gets about the shallowness of her characters, I don't think the same can be said about her storylines.
    A_Ron_HubbardBourbonQueen
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