Bald Movies – Captain America: Civil War *** SPOILERS***

Really enjoyed it; glad I have the podcast to listen to while I wind down.

*** SPOILERS***
A few initial reactions:
1. Super-hero fight at the airport was fantastic. And it's impressive how they juggled so many characters, and gave them all screen time.  I now have faith the Russos can handle the massive Infinity War.
2. What the heck was Vision doing the during most of the airport fight?  Flying around contemplating the nature of reality?
3. I am interested to try to break down the film into a 5 act structure.  I really liked that the last act played as a denouement instead of a climax.  I was actually relieved they didn't end with a big boring fight against a bunch of super-soldiers.
4. I like that they ended with the split Avengers team instead of wrapping everything up.
5. Zemo was a bit of a red herring. Shades of Mandarin in Iron Man 3??
6. How the heck did Zemo know all these details about the Winter Soldier so he could orchestrate the civil war?  Did I miss that part??
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Comments

  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    Absolutely loved it. Took my top spot but I may just be thinking that in the moment. Had a terrible theater experience but not even that could keep me from loving it. Blown away at how perfect spiderman was. 

  • in Winter Soldier zola tells Captain America that hydra killed tony's parents
  • GBraltaGBralta San Diego, CA
    I absolutely loved this movie. It was better than Age of Ultron, hands down. The twist at the end really did it for me. 
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    Outside of the impressive action, Spider-Man is the best part of this movie. I have been thinking about it since seeing this a few days ago and while Andrew Garfield's spidey was decent he came off as a smug asshole when delivering his witty lines. This Spider-Man nails those lines and is just uber likeable. Can't wait for the next spidey movie.
    Brawn
    No Half Measures....
  • staaaaap caaaallllling it an Avengers movie!!!! LOL :D Its a Cap story. Plus there was no Thor and Hulk! :D
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    edited May 2016
    I'll just leave this here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWWjQ9vexhE
    I just want to be famous enough that a porn parody gets made about me.
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    edited May 2016
    In reference to A. Ron talking about how he thought plot holes might have been answered in movies he hasn't seen:
    I just want to be famous enough that a porn parody gets made about me.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Holy shit that guy.
  • I now realize all the clues to Zemo's motivations exist in this movie and Cap 2.  I also realize, if they'd made those clues more obvious it would have ruined the surprise.  So, on reflection, I actually like it better.
  • rhcooprhcoop Knoxville, Tn
    I really enjoyed the movie, but I had some issues with it.  There are some pretty big plot holes in this movie and unless you count IM as the main villain, this is another MCU movie that can't produce a solid compelling villain.  They REALLY need to nail it with Thanos or Infinity War won't be as good as it could be.

    Evans rocked it as Cap, I really liked Ant Man in this movie and Spiderman was great.  They nailed the casting on him and even though I thought IM was a massive douche in most of this movie, the scene with Tony, hot aunt may and then Peter was really, really good.  Black Panther was really good as well, liked his character arc through the movie. 

    The guy playing Falcon just isn't a great actor, he scenes with Bucky were funny, but he just does nothing for me. Rhodey may have been a bigger villain than IM or Zemo.  He was really bloodthirsty in this, kind of out of character IMO. 

    Overall a great movie and better than AofU, but I still think Winter Soldier may be stronger. 
  • adampasz said:Really enjoyed it; glad I have the podcast to listen to while I wind down.


    I loved the movie but found the podcast a little....I don't even know. Maybe it's my fault at this point for expecting otherwise, because the Bald Move format really hasn't changed all that much over the years, broadly speaking. A.Ron, as always, is great. But like....maybe I just need to be enlightened. For people who watched the movie and listened to this podcast, love it or hate it, what does it do for you to have one of the co-hosts (almost gleefully) admit that they only background watched The Winter Soldier, the movie that this is a direct sequel to? And articulate one of their frustrations with the movie as 'Scarlet Witch would have just killed everybody right away.' and then, when it's pointed out that one of the themes of the movie is that these people are friends who don't really want to hurt one another, says "I know."?

    I just don't know what people get out of that. I'm admittedly a huge Marvel nerd and loved the movie, but my issue is not criticism. I understand Bald Move is not a comic book podcast, and this particular episode is not necessarily aimed at comic book people. So I am totally fine with the idea that this is more of the 'man on the street' take. But one of the men feels like he was using 1/4 of his full focus, and I don't get why anybody in the world would be interested in hearing that.

    That aside, as I said, I loved the movie. Marvel always nails their characters and this is no different. I love that, just the way Black Panther's motivations are sort of outside of the main conflict, T'Challa deals with and conquers his quest for vengeance in a way totally unique from how everybody else handles it.

    Loved the symbolism of Tony using the pens FDR signed the Lend-Lease Act with, which was itself a very controversial piece of legislation.

    More than anything else I love how nobody was completely right or wrong. I mean, Steve loses Peggy and at her funeral Sharon reads her 'Even if everybody is telling you that something wrong is something right, it's your moral duty to fight against it' quote (paraphrasing) and you totally get why Cap would integrate that into his resistance to signing The Accords. And then the flip side of that is young Peter Parker giving his own version of the 'with great power' speech to Tony, articulating that his worldview is that, if you're in a position to do amazing things and save people but
    don't, you are morally responsible. It's just two completely understandable ideas of what is right coming into conflict.

    And at every step every party involved just wants this to end. These people don't WANT to be fighting each other. I thought it was so raw and real at the airport, right before the big fight, when Tony flies off the handle and says (again, paraphrasing) 'You're going to stand down and turn Barnes over because it's US!'

    I could go on and on. I love how the movie goads you into assuming that you know where it's leading. By the time they enter the Siberian base at the end, Steve and Tony pretty much have things patched up. Tony acknowledges that he was wrong about Barnes and they're there as teammates and they're going to have to fight the 7 or 8 other super soldiers. But then they get there only to find the frozen corpses. And then Zemo locks them all in a room and plays the tape of the murder of the Starks and your stomach just turns for what's inevitably going to happen.
    adampaszGeorgeahauntedworldMelia004
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    @A_Ron_Hubbard Ha ha, yeah... He's pretty abrasive. Confused Matthew makes a lot of really solid points about the movies he reviews, but I don't know if I would want to have a beer with him.
    I just want to be famous enough that a porn parody gets made about me.
  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    What a fantastic movie. I am sure that being a comic fan certainly helps, but overall just a well-balanced and awesomely paced flick. It never really drug or felt slow. It is crazy to think that these guys that were a part of Dan Harmon's posse on Community are now the leading the pack directing Marvel movies. I was amazed at how well they were able to juggle all of the different characters and each give them a moment to shine. No one seems like they were given the short straw. Just a really fun movie. Not perfect, but no glaring complaints or errors are jumping to mind either.
    mr_teaspoon
  • @mr_teaspoon To me the podcast be the equivalent to hanging out with a few friends after the movie and listening to them "shoot the shit".  I'm not always looking for deep analysis.  I appreciate they make the effort to have the podcast up the night the movie opens.  It's an instant take.
    DeeBrawn
  • GeorgeGeorge Astoria, New York
    edited May 2016
    While they nailed Spiderman, somehow I think Black Panther stole the show.

    The way he moved. The use of his claws. It just works.

    And Black Panther is the type of comic book character that could have trouble transitioning over to live action, but man. Perfect.

    Can't wait to see what Coogler does with the solo film.
    Brawn
  • edited May 2016
    adampasz said:

    @mr_teaspoon To me the podcast be the equivalent to hanging out with a few friends after the movie and listening to them "shoot the shit".  I'm not always looking for deep analysis.  I appreciate they make the effort to have the podcast up the night the movie opens.  It's an instant take.

    adampasz said:

    (Sorry, I am an idiot and can't figure out how to make my response un-quoted.) That doesn't address my criticism. What does it being an instant take have to do with only half-watching the movie that this is a sequel to? Or about complaining about aspects of the movie, having it pointed out that the movie has an in-universe answer, and just saying "I know"?

    I don't think 'watch the previous movie before you podcast about the sequel' is my demanding deeper analysis.

  • "6. How the heck did Zemo know all these details about the Winter Soldier so he could orchestrate the civil war?  Did I miss that part??"

    Ok, so maybe I'm missing something but this question had me thinking.  How does Zemo know the info that he knows?  Is it just something like, Zemo was a part of Hydra, Hydra initiated the killings so hence Zemo knew that way?  If not, then how?  I know Zemo finds/gets the notebook and goes from there to learn more about the details but at some point, he had to know there was something important/specific about that date.  Sure, he could figure out that Tony Stark's parents died that night but how could he just assumed that Hydra had something to do with it?

    Overall, the movie was great.  Thought the 2nd half of it really picked things up and there were definitely some cool shots of the superheroes facing off against each other.  I also really enjoyed the ending with Cap sending the phone to Stark with the letter basically saying that if needed, just call and hence there's a way for the Avengers to get back together for Infinity Wars.

  • Frakkin TFrakkin T Boston MA
    Saw the movie today and loved it. To @A_Ron_Hubbard and anyone else who hasn't seen Ant Man: see it. Michael Pena alone makes it worthwhile. 

    I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, “If this isn’t nice, I don’t know what is."


  • edited May 2016

    "6. How the heck did Zemo know all these details about the Winter Soldier so he could orchestrate the civil war?  Did I miss that part??"

    Ok, so maybe I'm missing something but this question had me thinking.  How does Zemo know the info that he knows?  Is it just something like, Zemo was a part of Hydra, Hydra initiated the killings so hence Zemo knew that way?  If not, then how?  I know Zemo finds/gets the notebook and goes from there to learn more about the details but at some point, he had to know there was something important/specific about that date.  Sure, he could figure out that Tony Stark's parents died that night but how could he just assumed that Hydra had something to do with it?

    Overall, the movie was great.  Thought the 2nd half of it really picked things up and there were definitely some cool shots of the superheroes facing off against each other.  I also really enjoyed the ending with Cap sending the phone to Stark with the letter basically saying that if needed, just call and hence there's a way for the Avengers to get back together for Infinity Wars.




    I can't remember the exact line, but Zemo references Black Widow's info-dump of Hydra/S.H.I.E.L.D.'s files at the end of Winter Soldier. I'm sure that's where his journey began.
    TheEconomist
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Jim doesn't like comic movies, but alas we're living in an age where comic book movies are ascendant. It grinds my molars when he says he background watches shit for research, too.

    But, on the other hand, it's sort of useful to represent the non obsessive fan. Hell, I watched and loved Winter Soldier, and even I had forgot that Cap knew Hydra killed the elder Stark. Marvel has to come up with some sort of in universe "previously on" if they're going to rely on that sort of minutia. I just rolled with it, assuming correctly that I had missed something, but not everyone is willing to do that nor would I, had the movie not been excellent in its execution of nearly everything else.
    mr_teaspoon
  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    edited May 2016
    Yeah, I am a MCU super-fan and had no recollection of that info either. I feel a tad torn on it because I sat there wondering if I'd missed something. But on the other hand I thought it worked as it allowed you to be surprised like Tony if you didn't see Winter Soldier or remember that plot point. It was treated like somewhat of a TWIST!!!!! moment. But maybe that is just me being a Marvel apologist. Either way, I agree that it was a detail that should have been touched on heavier earlier in the film. With that said it didn't particularly bother me that much either because it seemed to work as is.



  • I can't remember the exact line, but Zemo references Black Widow's info-dump of Hydra/S.H.I.E.L.D.'s files at the end of Winter Soldier. I'm sure that's where his journey began.

    Ok, I remember that line.  He also said something about being very patient with decrypting the files as well.  Thanks for the reminder.
    mr_teaspoon
  • in Winter Soldier zola tells Captain America that hydra killed tony's parents



    @marc spector i remember that but It wasn't clear to me that Captain America knew it was Bucky/winter soldier that killed them. Also, that it was all conveniently on tape for tony to see felt thin.
    Doctor_Nick
  • edited May 2016
    @mr_teaspoon There are plenty of podcasts out there that will provide in-depth comic-book-geek analysis.  I enjoy Jim and ARon's presonalities.  And I understand they are mostly providing a the non-comic-book fan perspective. This perspective is also a better barometer of how the general public will respond to the film.

    I appreciate having a podcast to listen to the day of the release, even it is an instant take.  I'm sure a more thoroughly researched would take them significantly longer to produce.  Anyway, the point of these forums is that they can clarify some points and questions from the podcast.
    Brawn
  • edited May 2016
    adampasz said:

    @mr_teaspoon There are plenty of podcasts out there that will provide in-depth comic-book-geek analysis.  I enjoy Jim and ARon's presonalities.  And I understand they are mostly providing a the non-comic-book fan perspective. This perspective is also a better barometer of how the general public will respond to the film.


    I appreciate having a podcast to listen to the day of the release, even it is an instant take.  I'm sure a more thoroughly researched would take them significantly longer to produce.  Anyway, the point of these forums is that they can clarify some points and questions from the podcast.



    I repeat: It is not their perspective that's at issue here. I don't need Jim to love comic book movies. I want him to maybe care a little bit more that this is a podcast intended for people to listen to and enjoy. Whether he's a fan or not, who wants to hear the thoughts of somebody who paid half attention? Not trying to hammer this point home, I just want to make sure I'm explaining myself clearly. I see that ARon is also bugged by Jim not really making an effort to understand the movie series he's podcasting about, so fair enough there. This is the last time I'll bring it up, because I don't want to derail the thread and I'd love to talk more about the movie. The following interaction sums up my issues with Jim:

    'Why didn't Scarlet Witch kill everybody?' (Question that illustrates a misunderstanding of the plot. So far no biggie, we all miss things.)

    'Because they're friends and aren't trying to kill each other.' (Jim has now had his issue explained to him.)

    'I know.' - This is what gets me. What do you mean 'you know?' So was your initial criticism total bullshit? Or do you just have no desire to acknowledge that, oh, thank you, now I understand more clearly?

    OK, I'm done. Back to Civil War.

    Another thing I love is how every single character had a good reason to be there. Nobody outside of Scott Lang, whose motivations I do have issue with, was there just because 'Hey I'm this guy's friend and I'm on his side!' Well, maybe Sam. But he and Cap have a very real, deep friendship and have gone through some shit together.

    I mean, let's go through the list:

    Wanda - Realizes that some of her friends are completely fine with forcibly locking her up against her will.

    Rhodey - Really and truly believes in the rightness of The Accords.

    The Vision - Believes, understandably so, that the activities of The Avengers, without oversight, will lead to more and more catastrophes.

    Sam - Like I said, Sam is the only person who has been by Steve's side throughout his entire search for Bucky. He knows how important this is to Steve.

    Natasha - The most conflicted one of all. She nominally agrees with The Accords, but when it comes right down to actually betraying Steve, can't do it.

    Peter - Besides being wowed by the star power of Tony Stark, he's totally seeing this through Uncle Ben-specs. He has great power and he sees himself in a position to do good with it.

    T'Challa - While not being on any side by the end, he joins up with Team Tony because he believes Cap's best friend is a crazy maniac who killed his father.

    Clint - Retired happily, but once he hears that Avengers are locking away other Avengers, he can't abide.

    Did I miss anyone? Fuck, I love this movie.
  • edited May 2016
    @mr_teaspoon I guess it didn't bother me, but I do get your point that Jim sounded like he was not fully invested in the process of reviewing the film.

    As far as character motivations go, you missed Hawkeye.  And I think he's the one whose motivation was little unclear.  (He's a loyal solder?)

    I didn't have a problem with Ant Man being there.  It might have helped that I just watched Ant Man for the first time a week ago.
  • UnderwoodUnderwood Philadelphia, PA
    I'm in the Jim boat, with not being a big comic movie guy. While I enjoyed both Avengers and the first two Captain America's, Civil War was definitely my favorite to date. The action scenes were fantastic, it was legit funny at times, and was serious with real consequences when it had to be.
    Brawn
    "The mouse lady had kind eyes"
  • Even though I thought the movie was a little long, Black Panther and Spider-Man made the movie for me. Overall I enjoyed it, but I sit and think am I getting Marvel burnout. It seems to me that the "filler" plot between the fights was in some ways lacking. I am however looking forward to see this when it gets released on disc for home video so I can evaluate again. I think my enjoyment might have been partially ruined by someone who said each superhero out loud when they came out, and was very chatty.
  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    It seems like they are spacing their flicks out a bit...because we won't get another Marvel movie until November for Dr. Strange. Those are the only two Marvel movies in 2016 if memory serves. 2017 and 2018 will be popping with Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, Spider-Man: Homecoming, and Thor: Ragnarok in 2017 and then in 2018, Black Panther, Avengers: Infinity War, and Ant-Man & the Wasp...Your levels of excitement may vary.
    Underwood
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