607 - "The Broken Man" - SPOILER FRIENDLY!!

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  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    Nice to have the Hound back. I think we're meant to assume that's where he came up with the ad campaign for Coke.
    HunterTheEconomistDummyinvictusApril_May_June
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Hunter said:

    Is he Braavos-bound?  Do we know where he's headed now (since unless he's nuts it's not Oldtown).

       Did they cross paths in the book? 
    They sure did. But it was when he was on his way to the Citadel. He's essentially on the doorstep of The Citadel now and if Mr Tarley isn't going there immediately, I'm going to be pretty disappointed. I'm assuming he's taking that Valryian sword there to have them study it and make about a million more!

  • Hatorian said:

    don't we see Arya jumping out of a window in the trailers? If i am not mistaken this has not happened yet. So apparently she must heal enough to be able to do parkour style ninja moves. 

    They showed that clip again tonight as preview for next week. It looked like Jaqen to me, but I could be wrong. Everyone else seems to think it is Arya.
    I thought it was Theon's sister, but it was so fast and just the back.  So who knows.
  • Dummy said:

    Luke said:

    @Aspiewithalibrarycard you just described season 6 in a nutshell. This has all been set up with little bread crumb book fan theory service to make it appear like the plot is moving faster than it is.

    That being said, I feel like we saw Chekov's axe. I feel like we are going to see the Hound save Brienne who has been strung up by LSH.

    I'm also bummed we missed out on Manderly and Frey pie to get crappy child acting. I'm sorry but you can't put Kit and Davos up against a kid, it makes the cringe inducing acting stick out even more.

    Crappy child acting? That was some of the better child acting that I can remember. What constitutes good child acting? 
    I agree, having the queen seek the wisdom of the two men on either side of her was a good touch, by the director.  It showed how she was still young and seeks wise counsel.

      Maisie was great, best scene she has had yet.
    TheEconomistDummylippy
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    It looks like the waif or arya to me, they show like a split second clip of the waif walking through the street wearing what looks like the same shirt then cut to the clip of the jump.

    I will be highly disappointed if the faceless men let her petty fight with Arya fly. Stabbing Arya in the gut and letting her live was a major fuck up. I'm in the camp of it was just as much her being tested as Arya was.
  • Any idea where the Greyjoys are? I feel like we have seen that bridge before...
    Could it be Bravos? And Theon is going to find/save Arya?

    I'm fairly certain that as Arya was approaching the Westerosi man to book passage they were saying the Iron Born were docked in Slaver's Bay.


    gjulleen said:

    Dummy said:

    Jujee said:

    Dummy said:

    Luke said:

    @Aspiewithalibrarycard you just described season 6 in a nutshell. This has all been set up with little bread crumb book fan theory service to make it appear like the plot is moving faster than it is.

    That being said, I feel like we saw Chekov's axe. I feel like we are going to see the Hound save Brienne who has been strung up by LSH.

    I'm also bummed we missed out on Manderly and Frey pie to get crappy child acting. I'm sorry but you can't put Kit and Davos up against a kid, it makes the cringe inducing acting stick out even more.

    Crappy child acting? That was some of the better child acting that I can remember. What constitutes good child acting? 
    He's right, it was bad acting.  It was a 10yo person imitating her acting coach imitating a no-nonsense person with many many years of experience to draw from.  Even if you believe the lines were delivered convincingly (which they weren't), in GoT time she couldn't have been in this role long enough to acquire the wisdom/experience needed to behave this way.  It's not the actress's fault, it's just ridiculous to write a character/part like that, with that kind of responsibility, for a person of that age of either gender.
    Ya, ok. What are some examples of good child acting that I can compare this to. I clearly can't tell the difference, and you seem to have this down pat. I'm not buying that she isn't experienced enough to do what she's doing either. She's been the Lady of her house for a few years now, and has been trained to be the Lady of her house for longer. You don't think years of having to listen to people's stuff could give that person enough of experience? 
    And this isn't Sansa at 10.

    Lyanna Mormont was raised by a warrior woman to be a warrior woman. She was probably raised at her mother's feet learning to rule.

    I bought it. Hell, I liked it.

    She ruled better than Bran when he was left as Lord of Winterfel. We bought that.
    As far as the child acting, i LOVED little Lady Mormont.  Last night was the first night I said to my girlfriend that Kit Harrington is awful actor. 

    Anyways, I'm excited to see Little Finger come to bail out Jon and Sansa's army. 
    gjulleenElisa
  • TheEconomistTheEconomist Chattanooga, TN
    @Luke

    It wouldn't surprise me if the Faceless Men did a sort of thunderdome initiation were 2 novices battle to the death to become No One. To them death is a gift.

    Also at the end of season 5 that season's Jaqen poisons himself for Arya and the Waif behind her becomes Jaqen. So this season 6 Waif may not even be the same person but another brash novice. But it's so hard to tell with these folks which is why I don't read a lot into what "motivates" them when they are No One.
  • voodooratvoodoorat Atlanta
    edited June 2016
    @JoshB the place where yara was whoring and theon was moping was i'm pretty sure the long bridge in volantis, still a ways from mareen (although it's the closest of the free cities to slavers bay and is a slave city, there are 5x as many slaves as free people and they all have those tattoos).  i guess they figure they have 20 years or so before they have to worry about uncle euron and his 1,000 new ships' pursuit so they have a little time to let some steam off.

    *note* volantis is a *long fucking way* from the iron islands, those ships they stole were definitely some of he best and fastest, iron island is near the top left of the default view of this map and volantis is out of frame to the southeast:  http://quartermaester.info/ it's about 550 leagues (> 1,500 miles) from volantis to mereen, so you can see how far they traveled already lol, probably over twice that far.  i think the show world is just a smaller version.
    TheEconomist
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    I don't know that I find Lady Mormont that unbelievable, considering the world and how she may have been raised. Her mother in the books is pretty tough. 

    I read a Winston Churchill bio years ago and I remember being floored by the letters he would write home as a kid from boarding school, and how adult and self-assured he seemed.  

    There's a kid umpire in my son's little league who is about on par with her in terms of demeanor and confidence. I think he's about 12. 

    Ultimately she just has to look convincing in her role. Her confidence doesn't mean she's capable or wise, it just makes her seem in control. 
    TheEconomistDaveyMaclippyHunter
  • FernNYC17FernNYC17 New York, NY

    @Luke

    It wouldn't surprise me if the Faceless Men did a sort of thunderdome initiation were 2 novices battle to the death to become No One. To them death is a gift.

    Also at the end of season 5 that season's Jaqen poisons himself for Arya and the Waif behind her becomes Jaqen. So this season 6 Waif may not even be the same person but another brash novice. But it's so hard to tell with these folks which is why I don't read a lot into what "motivates" them when they are No One.

    In  that scene didnt the dead Jaqens face change like 5x from some old person to some women and then to even Arya just before Arya goes blind. so does that mean Jaqen or a Faceless man can become Arya even without Aryas actual face?
  • voodoorat said:

    @JoshB the place where yara was whoring and theon was moping was i'm pretty sure the long bridge in volantis, still a ways from mareen (although it's the closest of the free cities to slavers bay and is a slave city, there are 5x as many slaves as free people and they all have those tattoos).  i guess they figure they have 20 years or so before they have to worry about uncle euron and his 1,000 new ships' pursuit so they have a little time to let some steam off.

    Well, I just rechecked it and the man 100% says "the Iron Fleet is in Slaver's Bay."

    In the end it doesn't really matter I guess, travel time is a non-factor in the show and next time we see them they'll be sailing up to Meereen.
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    I mean they are the "faceless men" right? I'm assuming the final initiation ritual is they take your face and put it on the wall. That would explain how multiple people have appeared as Jaquen. It's also why I hope either Arya gets away or dies trying because I don't really want to see her have to lose her face and become an unfeeling assassin.
  • I don't get why they had to portray Arya as so oblivious to danger in that final scene. Last week set the proper tone for her flight from the faceless men; she's in hiding, Needle at the ready, using darkness to give her some kind of edge against the superior Waif. But this episode she's traipsing along, carefree, like there's no threat of reprisal at all.  When the disguised Waif approaches Arya greets her with a smile - she could have at least greeted her with suspicion, or even outright attacked her, using her training to immediately see through the disguise.  The end result could have been exactly the same, the difference being that Arya would've come across as a badass whose just not as capable a fighter as the Waif, as opposed to a dumbass whose just not as capable a fighter as the Waif. 

    There is the possibility Arya orchestrated that final confrontation in such a way that she could fake her death so the faceless men will stop coming after her, but seems like there are way too many variables at play there for anyone to realistically account for.  It has the opposite problem of maybe giving Arya too much credit as opposed to too little
    Elisa
  • FernNYC17FernNYC17 New York, NY
    This Theory that The Waif doesn't really exist and it's in Arya Head maybe due to some Drink that Jaqen gave her. i been hearing it a lot today. so if this is a "Fight Club" type thing. can anyone Verify that all the scenes with the Waif are with only Arya or Jaqen? did anyone other then them interact with her? if its true and only Jaqen and Arya are the only ones who Acknowledge the Waif then this Theroy might have legs. Not sure if i like it, but it might have some legs.
    TheEconomist
  • Jujee said:

    Dummy said:

    Jujee said:

    Dummy said:

    Luke said:

    @Aspiewithalibrarycard you just described season 6 in a nutshell. This has all been set up with little bread crumb book fan theory service to make it appear like the plot is moving faster than it is.

    That being said, I feel like we saw Chekov's axe. I feel like we are going to see the Hound save Brienne who has been strung up by LSH.

    I'm also bummed we missed out on Manderly and Frey pie to get crappy child acting. I'm sorry but you can't put Kit and Davos up against a kid, it makes the cringe inducing acting stick out even more.

    Crappy child acting? That was some of the better child acting that I can remember. What constitutes good child acting? 
    He's right, it was bad acting.  It was a 10yo person imitating her acting coach imitating a no-nonsense person with many many years of experience to draw from.  Even if you believe the lines were delivered convincingly (which they weren't), in GoT time she couldn't have been in this role long enough to acquire the wisdom/experience needed to behave this way.  It's not the actress's fault, it's just ridiculous to write a character/part like that, with that kind of responsibility, for a person of that age of either gender.
    Ya, ok. What are some examples of good child acting that I can compare this to. I clearly can't tell the difference, and you seem to have this down pat. I'm not buying that she isn't experienced enough to do what she's doing either. She's been the Lady of her house for a few years now, and has been trained to be the Lady of her house for longer. You don't think years of having to listen to people's stuff could give that person enough of experience? 
    There's so many examples of good child acting, that deserves it's own thread.  Again, while not the fault of the child actor, it was an imitation as I described above, not an acting performance.  The writing, dialogue, context etc. was that of a much older person with way way more than 2 years of life experience, let alone experience in that role to draw from.

    I guess a little girl imitating tough and stern adult people and using their language is exactly what I'd expect in that adult context of running a feudal house. So that doesn't bother me. I suppose I'm ignorant in what to expect in this situation if it doesn't ring true. I'd like to discuss what you'd think a more authentic portrayal would be. Different dialogue, mannerisms?
    just an overall conglomeration of those factors that made it look like she was imitating her acting coach.  I don't think there could be an actor at that age who could pull off such a role.  It never made sense to begin with.
  • Dummy said:

    Luke said:

    @Aspiewithalibrarycard you just described season 6 in a nutshell. This has all been set up with little bread crumb book fan theory service to make it appear like the plot is moving faster than it is.

    That being said, I feel like we saw Chekov's axe. I feel like we are going to see the Hound save Brienne who has been strung up by LSH.

    I'm also bummed we missed out on Manderly and Frey pie to get crappy child acting. I'm sorry but you can't put Kit and Davos up against a kid, it makes the cringe inducing acting stick out even more.

    Crappy child acting? That was some of the better child acting that I can remember. What constitutes good child acting? 
    He's right, it was bad acting.  It was a 10yo person imitating her acting coach imitating a no-nonsense person with many many years of experience to draw from.  Even if you believe the lines were delivered convincingly (which they weren't), in GoT time she couldn't have been in this role long enough to acquire the wisdom/experience needed to behave this way.  It's not the actress's fault, it's just ridiculous to write a character/part like that, with that kind of responsibility, for a person of that age of either gender.
    One could argue that she was seen "consulting" with her advisers several times and that her persona and delivery fits in with Stannis' observations of this "Girl of TEN"

    I didn't think it was that bad.  Not Brando or Pacino, but not terrible.
    TheEconomistDaveyMac
  • I found it interesting that the episode was bookended with the Hound and Arya. Hound survives a seemingly mortal wound and Arya staggers off with a similar gash. Then something I noticed during the episode nagged at me:


    where was needle???!?!?! why would Arya stroll through the streets of Braavos, tossing bags of money to ship captains in an open market when she's sleeping in a dark alley? and why wouldn't she carry a weapon?

    Either the DDs did a lazy job of trying to get Arya out of Braavos or something else is afoot.
    Down her pants?  Hyuk, hyuk
  • I think Lady Crane is going to find and help Arya as repayment for Arya saving her life.  Although, I'd really like Theon to find Arya and bring her back to Westeros as repayment for all the damage he's done to the Starks.
    gjulleenElisaTheEconomist
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    @FernNYC17 yeah I could see that. Like the waif kills Arya, and then all of a sudden the waif pulls off her face and becomes Arya and we see Arya's body dissappear or turn into a random person.

    It's a far out there idea, but I could see it going that way. I don't think we have seen anyone acknowledge the waif's existence besides Arya and Jaquen.
  • edited June 2016


    Jujee said:

    Dummy said:

    Luke said:

    @Aspiewithalibrarycard you just described season 6 in a nutshell. This has all been set up with little bread crumb book fan theory service to make it appear like the plot is moving faster than it is.

    That being said, I feel like we saw Chekov's axe. I feel like we are going to see the Hound save Brienne who has been strung up by LSH.

    I'm also bummed we missed out on Manderly and Frey pie to get crappy child acting. I'm sorry but you can't put Kit and Davos up against a kid, it makes the cringe inducing acting stick out even more.

    Crappy child acting? That was some of the better child acting that I can remember. What constitutes good child acting? 
    He's right, it was bad acting.  It was a 10yo person imitating her acting coach imitating a no-nonsense person with many many years of experience to draw from.  Even if you believe the lines were delivered convincingly (which they weren't), in GoT time she couldn't have been in this role long enough to acquire the wisdom/experience needed to behave this way.  It's not the actress's fault, it's just ridiculous to write a character/part like that, with that kind of responsibility, for a person of that age of either gender.



    A young girl did the best she could. A viewer enjoyed the performance.


    Even if what you say is fact an not opinion, the bad acting would still work for this viewer. It would be entirely plausible that a young, inexperienced child who was thrust into such leadership, would overcompensate by acting like they knew what they were doing and not showing the fear and uncertainty that they were really feeling.

    Hence, if it were bad acting it could have been purposeful to show that she was in way over her head and trying not to show it.

    MelonuskCallieTheEconomistDaveyMacweeniegirl
  • FernNYC17 said:

    This Theory that The Waif doesn't really exist and it's in Arya Head maybe due to some Drink that Jaqen gave her. i been hearing it a lot today. so if this is a "Fight Club" type thing. can anyone Verify that all the scenes with the Waif are with only Arya or Jaqen? did anyone other then them interact with her? if its true and only Jaqen and Arya are the only ones who Acknowledge the Waif then this Theroy might have legs. Not sure if i like it, but it might have some legs.

    Damn, beat me to the punch, but it seems like a believable enough theory, given how the Waif seems to disappear almost instantly after each time she beat the shit out of Arya in the streets

  • Can Arya survive those wounds without someone using some kind of restorative magic on her?  I think gut wounds were pretty lethal, dips in filthy canals aside, until relatively recently in our own universe.
    CallieThe Hand
  • AjasAjas Seattle, WA
    edited June 2016
    JoshB said:

    Any idea where the Greyjoys are? I feel like we have seen that bridge before...
    Could it be Bravos? And Theon is going to find/save Arya?

    I'm fairly certain that as Arya was approaching the Westerosi man to book passage they were saying the Iron Born were docked in Slaver's Bay.
    I think the Greyjoys were exactly where Jorah kidnapped Tyrion.
    ElisaDuncan MacSummerDownNowMelonusk
  • edited June 2016
    voodoorat said:

    Can Arya survive those wounds without someone using some kind of restorative magic on her?  I think gut wounds were pretty lethal, dips in filthy canals aside, until relatively recently in our own universe.



    Definitely a slow and painful death. If she doesn't bleed out it, it will be infection, sepsis and days of suffering.


    I still think that there is something off here. A girl cuddles up with needle in bleak seclusion to spend the night, because she knows she is marked for death, but then casually strolls to the center of town, has sacks of gold that girl should not have, and casually enjoys the sights from bridge, allowing someone to walk right up on the girl when she knows that her assassin could be anyone? It seems like a ploy to draw the killer out, but why, and by whom exactly?

    However it goes down, I think the fact that the waif did not do a clean kill as Jaqen requested, but instead went for the slow, painful gut wounds with knife twist for good measure, will be critical in the final outcome.


    Edit to add: You know, the little scabs that were on her face the night before, were completely gone, her hair is also down and not in a bun, her caution is gone. I remember thinking Maise looked prettier than usual. I really think something is up here.

    CallievoodooratTheEconomist
  • Ajas said:

    JoshB said:

    Any idea where the Greyjoys are? I feel like we have seen that bridge before...
    Could it be Bravos? And Theon is going to find/save Arya?

    I'm fairly certain that as Arya was approaching the Westerosi man to book passage they were saying the Iron Born were docked in Slaver's Bay.
    I think the Greyjoys were exactly where Jorah kidnapped Tyrion.
    Yes, that looked like the same brothel/tavern, and the same Waterworld type building structures.
  • gjulleen said:

    Did anyone else catch Margaery is denying Tommen sex? Is that a part of the plan?

    I was thinking this is a card she can play to help free Loras.
    Elisa
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois

    voodoorat said:

    Can Arya survive those wounds without someone using some kind of restorative magic on her?  I think gut wounds were pretty lethal, dips in filthy canals aside, until relatively recently in our own universe.



    Definitely a slow and painful death. If she doesn't bleed out it, it will be infection, sepsis and days of suffering.


    I still think that there is something off here. A girl cuddles up with needle in bleak seclusion to spend the night, because she knows she is marked for death, but then casually strolls to the center of town, has sacks of gold that girl should not have, and casually enjoys the sights from bridge, allowing someone to walk right up on the girl when she knows that her assassin could be anyone? It seems like a ploy to draw the killer out, but why, and by whom exactly?

    However it goes down, I think the fact that the waif did not do a clean kill as Jaqen requested, but instead went for the slow, painful gut wounds with knife twist for good measure, will be critical in the final outcome.


    Edit to add: You know, the little scabs that were on her face the night before, were completely gone, her hair is also down and not in a bun, her caution is gone. I remember thinking Maise looked prettier than usual. I really think something is up here.

    Yeah she fell in the canal too, and you can't tell me that that canal isn't teeming with sewage, parasites, and bacteria in a midevil urban area. I think it's a 100% chance of a fatal infection bar some sort of crazy magic, which is on the table this season.
    ElisaTheEconomist
  • Maybe if Arya kills the Waif, that will compensate for not killing the actress, then Jaqen will swoop in and save Arya.
  • I laughed:

    image



    GredalBeeElisaTheEconomistMurderbearjkmiller826lippy
  • FernNYC17 said:

    This Theory that The Waif doesn't really exist and it's in Arya Head maybe due to some Drink that Jaqen gave her. i been hearing it a lot today. so if this is a "Fight Club" type thing. can anyone Verify that all the scenes with the Waif are with only Arya or Jaqen? did anyone other then them interact with her? if its true and only Jaqen and Arya are the only ones who Acknowledge the Waif then this Theroy might have legs. Not sure if i like it, but it might have some legs.

    That's fuckin' interesting, man
    MichaelCJ5
This discussion has been closed.