Official Direct Thread: Alien³

Wahl-eWahl-e Seattle
Consider this your official thread for David Fincher's Alien³. What are your favorite moments, fan theories, characters, special effects and themes? How do you interpret the mythos? Join us! 

Comments

  • FlashGordonFlashGordon Leeds, UK
    edited July 2016
    So I watched this for the first time in probably 20 years last night and it is a MESS, I don't hate it and they're are a few bits I really enjoyed, overall it doesn't work though .

    For a start I balked when I saw again that they killed off newt & hicks off camera, they tried to emotionally compensate for that with an uncomfortable autopsy scene, that kind of cheapens  the conclusion of Aliens in a big way for me.

    I won't go into it  too much here but it's  well known what a train wreck production on this movie was, with Fincher apparently having actually disowned it in post production, he was the second choice director on a script that had been rewritten several times and was under major pressure from the studio. 
    The original script was about an extreme  socialist faction/state that get involved in a plot that was going to focus on Hicks , with the 4th movie being the return of Ripley, which, minus the socialists sounds so much better. Although the gritty darker world of Fury 161 concept was interesting , along with the religious stuff that was at times executed in a cool way.

    O and The CGI was total shit, it was cool introducing new Aliens species, but surely do it with animatronics!

    What I liked and the saving grace of this are the talent, there are some  grade A  actors in this  Pete Postlethwaite , Paul Mcgann , Charles Dutton and Charles Dance great seeing a young Tywin Lannister, who got killed of way too early in the movie, this along with the concept makes it bearable ,  but still basically a pretty shit movie.


    Couple of links below




    Edit: Some of Fincher's work are my favourite movies, so i'll gush on him later in the series but this was not his finest hour
    AntManBeeWahl-e
  • edited July 2016

    @FlashGordon I agree with you on all points. I'll never forget seeing this in the theater while I was still in high school and being so disappointed right from the start with the way Newt and Hicks being immediately killed off. It really does cheapen how Aliens ended.

    One of the disappointing things about not using the original script was that it had been written by cyberpunk author William Gibson. It would been so cool to see his writing come alive on screen at the time. It was just around that time I was getting into his cyberpunk novels.

    I also recently rewatched this a while back and it is so overwhelmingly drab in tone that I always find it off-putting. And this is coming from someone who loves dark films. However, one cool thing to take away from Alien 3's alien was how it came out of a dog, so by nature, it takes on some of a dog's physical traits.  

    I did look through Fincher's music videos and that is some list. No wonder he was such a hot prospect back in the day. My favorite video of his by far is George Michael's "Freedom '90". Great song, amazing video and FTW, Cindy Crawford in a steamy bath tub!

    FlashGordonWahl-e
  • FlashGordonFlashGordon Leeds, UK
    edited July 2016
    @AntManBee I'm with you there man, generally the darker the Movie the better, but the tone of this is just so bleak that it does just become a slog. The William Gibson route would have been so much better. 

    I was kind of ignorant to Finchers music video background so i'm checking them out now, Cindy FTW indeed!
    AntManBee
  • DaveyMacDaveyMac Tokyo
    edited July 2016
    I'm totally with both of you guys, especially on the Newt and Hicks deaths. So disappointing.

    Just out of curiosity, which version is everyone watching? I've seen the Theatrical Cut once and then the Assembly Cut a few years back. They are quite different in many respects and I did enjoy the Assembly Cut more. There is a much greater focus on religion in the Assembly cut and the dog is actually not the host, but rather an ox. 

    All this stuff is mentioned @FlashGordon 's links, but in case anyone wants more, here's a link to the Xenopedia Alien 3 Assembly cut wiki.. 

    I'll probably be giving it another watch this weekend and see if I enjoy it any better than last time. 

    And I'm actually really looking forward to this Fincher series even though I'm not really a big Fincher fan and I'm interested to see if I come around more watching all of these films back to back. Plus, I've only seen most of his films once and one not at all, so it'll be a good chance to jog my memory. 
    FlashGordon
  • Completely unrelated to Alien 3, but @Wahl-e Big thanks for the shout-out on the Fincher preview cast! That was really cool. We had a blast hanging out with you guys and I'm so glad you enjoyed your time here. 
    FreddyWahl-e
  • DaveyMacDaveyMac Tokyo
    edited July 2016
    I just finished my re-watch and as big of a mess as this movie is, I still found myself mostly compelled by it. I like a lot of the ideas that went into it, but it's really hard to look past things like how did the facehugger get aboard the ship? Or why is the gestation period so long for Ripley? Because it's a queen? How are we supposed to know that the facehugger on screen is a Royal Facehugger and that it is capable of impregnating two victims? Maybe there are answers, but it doesn't really make sense on screen. 

    Also, while I enjoyed the tunnel chases and stuff, I did get confused by the geography, both during the fire and the build-up to the lead dumping. 

    Still, despite having major issues with the set-up of the movie, I was never bored and I find Ripley's arc to be really tragic and interesting. After too horrifying encounters with Aliens she then ends up on a shit planet with a bunch of religious fanatics, and continues to be fucked over by the company right to the very end. At least the assembly cut gives her the dignity of not having to deal with the queen popping out of her chest as she falls.

    Lastly, I totally agree with @FlashGordon that the CGI was total shit. I also thought a lot of the dialogue was a bit shit as well. Some of the performances were decent. Others not so much. But yeah it was great seeing a young Charles Dance. Too bad he didn't make it further into the film.
    FlashGordonAntManBee
  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    So if years of watching Shark Tank and listening to the Start-Up podcast have taught me anything, its that people's first efforts at something are rarely a slam dunk success. It almost seems like people need to get a slap of reality to really perfect their craft. And that is how I see Alien3. If Fincher didn't have this initial flop of a flick, we may have seen someone who was complacent with their film-making as opposed to the director who has an absolutely astounding catalogue of movies at this point. This is a good thing in the long run for him and for viewers.

    Oh and just as a post-script, I know there were plenty of other production and studio issues, so this shouldn't fall entirely on Fincher. It is just difficult to point the finger at anyone else except the director in this case.
  • Haven't rewatched it, but my teenage memories of it are better than Prometheus a few years ago.  What do people who have seen both recently think?
  • AntManBee said:

    @FlashGordon I agree with you on all points. I'll never forget seeing this in the theater while I was still in high school and being so disappointed right from the start with the way Newt and Hicks being immediately killed off. It really does cheapen how Aliens ended.

    One of the disappointing things about not using the original script was that it had been written by cyberpunk author William Gibson. It would been so cool to see his writing come alive on screen at the time. It was just around that time I was getting into his cyberpunk novels.

    I also recently rewatched this a while back and it is so overwhelmingly drab in tone that I always find it off-putting. And this is coming from someone who loves dark films. However, one cool thing to take away from Alien 3's alien was how it came out of a dog, so by nature, it takes on some of a dog's physical traits.  

    I did look through Fincher's music videos and that is some list. No wonder he was such a hot prospect back in the day. My favorite video of his by far is George Michael's "Freedom '90". Great song, amazing video and FTW, Cindy Crawford in a steamy bath tub!

    I am not sure if you guys are confusing digital effects with optical, but that was definitely an optical, blue screen effect when the xenonorph was running around. 1992 was right towards the end of the big budget films using traditional effects.
    Also, interesting thought on the different xenonorph based on the host--does the one shown in Prometheus that came from a Builder look different for that reason? I always had assumed it was simply an earlier ancestor of Ripley's acquaintenances.
  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    Melia004 said:

     Also, interesting thought on the different xenonorph based on the host--does the one shown in Prometheus that came from a Builder look different for that reason? I always had assumed it was simply an earlier ancestor of Ripley's acquaintenances.

    I guess I always thought that the Xenomorph from Prometheus was due to it being an earlier, evolutionary version of what we'd come to see in the Alien movies also. But now that you mention that it came from a Builder, perhaps that is the reason...I don't know. Prometheus was stunning to look at, but I couldn't make much sense of things outside of that.
  • FlashGordonFlashGordon Leeds, UK
    edited July 2016
    @Melia004 I dunno I'm pretty sure it was CGI at points  - that were awful, with a mix of VFX that weren't so bad.

    I'm one of the few who love Prometheus, I was a little confused by it in the cinema,  but loved the spectacle , later saw it on blue ray + the below youtuber amongst others, gave me an appreciation for it. 

    That is based on me bridging flaws with extras & docs, which means the movie if fundamentally flawed, but whatever I can't want for Alien Covenant

    The best point/insight is around the 9 minute mark 

  • I think, based on the xenomorph that emerged from the predator in AvP, that it's fairly conclusive that it is based at least in some part on the dna of the host. That said, the prometheus xeno could ALSO be different in part because it's earlier in the chain. It's not hard to imagine that the species is always evolving, selecting dominant host traits each time.
    Cory
  • On the subject of "Prometheus", I wonder if a lot of the disappointment was due to people getting overly hyped about Ridley Scott returning to the series as well as the amazing trailers that really built up people's excitement.

    For me, I enjoyed "Prometheus" for most part, probably due to my expectations being significantly lowered as a result of the film opening here six months later than the rest of the world.

    Though I did have significant problems some of the characters, particularly the main guy who looks a bit like Tom Hardy. That character didn't make any sense to me. He's a scientist in search for the origins of life and they discover an amazing archeological site that may contain the answers and he just mopes about the whole time not having found the creators alive?

    I really loved Michael Fassbender's character, though. The first 10 minutes or so on the ship with him alone are fantastic.
    HolyBlotterBatman
  • levij said:

    I think, based on the xenomorph that emerged from the predator in AvP, that it's fairly conclusive that it is based at least in some part on the dna of the host. That said, the prometheus xeno could ALSO be different in part because it's earlier in the chain. It's not hard to imagine that the species is always evolving, selecting dominant host traits each time.

    Interesting. Haven't seen the AvP movies. Am I just imagining it or did the Alien franchise disown those officially at some point?
  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    Melia004 said:



    Interesting. Haven't seen the AvP movies. Am I just imagining it or did the Alien franchise disown those officially at some point?

    I don't think they are "official" canon. But I couldn't tell you where that has been stated. I just remember reading it somewhere.
  • ZesderZesder Tasmania
    @FlashGordon Im pretty sure the only digital effects in the movie was when the Alien exploded.

    It's been a while since I've seen the special features for this movie but I'm sure I can remember them being so proud of being able to do that digitally because it was such a new field.
    DaveyMac
  • FlashGordonFlashGordon Leeds, UK
    edited July 2016
    @Zesder @Melia004 Please accept my apologies, you're both right, I did some further reading and as you say it was virtually all blue screen and puppets, it was poor compositing but i was sure i was looking at CGI

    Just on  prometheus for me Fassbender made it, his character helped me just ignore a lot of the cracks in that plot, which there were no shortage
    Melia004DaveyMac
  • @Zesder @Melia004 Please accept my apologies, you're both right, I did some further reading and as you say it was virtually all blue screen and puppets, it was poor compositing but i was sure i was looking at CGI


    Just on  prometheus for me Fassbender made it, his character helped me just ignore a lot of the cracks in that plot, which there were no shortage

    If Prometheus 2 has anyone, let alone a biologist, approaching alien organisms like a toddler, that'll be my Nope Out moment.
    FlashGordonlevij
  • Egregious!

    I hereby boycott the Direct Podcast until Eric watches "Aliens."

    (or until the release of next episode, whichever comes first)

    Wahl-elevij
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