I love the old timey rendition of black hole sun playing in the saloon. nice touch. Also the orchestral paint it black. If this show is going to take modern music and do it in old west style for the entire series, I'm all in. love that choice.
Not particularly related to your point, but...
My background is in music publishing - it's nearly impossible to use a Rolling Stones song in TV or movies. They maintain very strict control over their catalogue and routinely turn down huge offers from massive directors, prestige projects etc. I was shocked to hear 'Paint it Black'!
I thought it was great. Loved the use of pop music in a western style(Black Hole Sun and Paint it Black) and saw that reddit is already trying to craft musical theme theories.
I actually knew about the music before the show aired, there was an article I read somewhere before the premiere that mentioned it, I should try to dig it up. They modify the song a bit for a piano and apparently there is a small company in Southern California that can convert them to a paper reel for the player piano, so when you see that in the show it's actually real, it's not just for show. I would guess that they wouldn't do something like this just for the pilot and that there are certainly more songs like this to come.
“Part of the fun of it, once we clear the song, is to create an arrangement of the song that can then play on a player piano,” Nolan said. “Then we have a little company that we found in Southern California that still operates for all this time, and they can create the paper reels that we then thread into several actual player pianos. They’ve all been carefully restored. So this company can create the reel with that piece of contemporary music on it. There was a piece of Radiohead in the second episode as well, so we get a Radiohead song, we create our reel and we put it through. It’s really, really cool. It’s been a lot of fun.”
A few other interesting tidbits from it:
IT’S BEEN AROUND AS LONG AS DISNEYLAND — OR LONGER - One character in Westworld has been a customer for 30 years, and the show suggests the park has been around even longer. While they haven’t yet specified a year in the future in which the show takes place, Nolan likens the longevity of Westworld to the real world legacy of Disneyland in our present day.
“We came up with an early estimate number which I’d hate to relate,” Nolan said. “One of the ideas that’s gently touched on, in our world this park has been extant for more than 30 years. You drive around L.A. and you see the Disney 60 signs. Disneyland … ours is very, very different but the idea of a fantasy world that you’d think was compelling enough to last generations. You’d take your grandkids to Disneyland and regale them with the stories of when they were there originally, 60 years ago. If you create something in this fantasy space that was powerful enough, lasting enough, it becomes an institution. We imagine in our show that Westworld has become an institution, a place that people can come to and they bring their kids back to.”
IF YOU STAY LONG ENOUGH, YOU’LL FIGURE OUT WESTWORLD’S SECRETS - Ed Harris plays the 30-year Westworld veteran. He’s come up with a persona, The Man in Black, who seems like a villain in the pilot. Harris promises that the more he throws Westworld into chaos, the more his plan will be revealed. No matter how cool robots are, you don’t keep coming back for 30 years just to ride horses and shoot robots.
“There’s a much deeper purpose for him being there by this point,” Harris said. “He thinks there’s some deeper level to what’s happening in this park. He thinks perhaps Tony’s character is in charge of something that is not really obvious on the surface, and he’s probing. He thinks the more chaos he causes, the more destruction he can create with these AI folks, it’s not random. He is not just going around killing everybody he sees. There is always some narrative going along that he’s following that somebody gets in his way, and he has to blow them away.”
re: the critical failure in over 30 years, i think that was supposed to be meta-joke about the film, or potentially implying that this isn't a reboot tv show but a sequel series, which could be interesting, however i haven't seen the film yet so i don't know if it would make sense in the continuity of the universe.
i didn't realise teddy was james marsden until someone in this thread said it and good god that man aged like a fine wine
looking forward to seeing where the show goes, really interesting pilot
- the acting was so good. The way the AI's switched from "human" to "robot" was great- I totally bought it each time
- when the Dad was being led into the cold storage room and he had a tear in his eye- that really got me
- the scenery was incredible- such a visual treat!
- wtf was with the milk? I totally didn't get that? Did I miss something?
- as other people mentioned- the music was really good
I picked up on something... I have no idea if this is alluding to something but the songs that featured were Black Hole Sun and Paint It Black. Were the 2 songs featuring heavily the colour black intentional? Was this to draw some sort of comparison to the Man in Black? Or is the emphasis on the colour black in relation to the theme of morality and the possible blackness of humanity in regards to hurting potentially sentient beings?
- the acting was so good. The way the AI's switched from "human" to "robot" was great- I totally bought it each time
- when the Dad was being led into the cold storage room and he had a tear in his eye- that really got me
- the scenery was incredible- such a visual treat!
- wtf was with the milk? I totally didn't get that? Did I miss something?
- as other people mentioned- the music was really good
I picked up on something... I have no idea if this is alluding to something but the songs that featured were Black Hole Sun and Paint It Black. Were the 2 songs featuring heavily the colour black intentional? Was this to draw some sort of comparison to the Man in Black? Or is the emphasis on the colour black in relation to the theme of morality and the possible blackness of humanity in regards to hurting potentially sentient beings?
Anyways just my thoughts
And the closing song was by the Man in Black, Johnny Cash
As someone who has been involved in testing large software applications in the past, I liked the 'Groundhog Day' aspect of the stories. Test - record results. Repeat test - change slightly - record results. Repeat. Etc. Etc. 30 years later, find bug.
Really enjoyed the episode - see great possibilities.
"...some of them have gained access to their prior selves (and accumulative knowledge) and that's triggered some form of independent thinking or self awareness."
This is also what I gathered in my first watch, and seemed to hold true in my second watch.
@jodwilso Yeah I think they pretty much directly told us this, and that it was the update that allowed the gestures to be tied to memories that created it.
I think the real question is if Ford is attempting to create a sentient being or if he's really just trying to create more realistic androids.
Did they ever say if Dolores was updated? My impression was no, but that what happened with her was strictly from her communication with her 'father' that was decommissioned. I hope I'm not mistaken about this because it would be so much more interesting to me; while Ford was the catalyst for the creation of a new sentient life form he didn't actually create it but merely laid the groundwork (life will find a way and such).
The usage of milk in various scenes intrigued me, as it seems to echo the iconic android Ash (of Alien), whose synthetic lifeblood was a milk-like substance.
In this episode, after one of the AI's goes on an unsanctioned killing spree in the saloon (I like to think he milked-boarded everyone to death with skim milk), there was a particularly striking above-angle shot showing the mixing of blood and milk. Maybe a little on the nose, but I thought it was a nice reflection of what we all certainly understand will be the major theme of the series: the merging of synthetic and biological humanity.
I love the old timey rendition of black hole sun playing in the saloon. nice touch. Also the orchestral paint it black. If this show is going to take modern music and do it in old west style for the entire series, I'm all in. love that choice.
Not particularly related to your point, but...
My background is in music publishing - it's nearly impossible to use a Rolling Stones song in TV or movies. They maintain very strict control over their catalogue and routinely turn down huge offers from massive directors, prestige projects etc. I was shocked to hear 'Paint it Black'!
If I'm not mistaken, isnt it easier to license the rights to a song as opposed to the version? I thought they were two seperate licenses. So it's easier to obtain the license to paint it black, just not the rolling stones version. That's why you tend to see a lot of covers of Rolling stones songs as opposed to the original studio versions. I could be mistaken though.
Hey guys - so glad we are getting a Bald Move podcast on West World.
I loved episode 1 - and I won't be cancelling my HBO NOW subscription like I originally planned to until GOT returned. I guess I will just have to keep paying the man in the GOT off season. But I think WW is going to be worth it.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is something that I did not catch until my second watch. We open on the narrator's discussion with Delores. A bit of foreshadowing, or in media res, right? Because as we know, towards the end of the episode, the scene plays out again.
But, as I watched a second time, I identified the opening scene narrator as the main designer/programmer - Jeffrey Wright's character. I mean, we never see him, but it's definitely his voice. But at the end of the episode, it's the security guy questioning Dolores. It's the same conversation, but a different narrator? Why?!?! No clue.
Could it be that we are seeing a double simulationary world? - simulation on top of a simulation? No clue, but I'd love to see if you guys caught this and what your thoughts on it are.
In college I remember talking to a friend about Michael Wincott being in a lot of great whiskey drinking scenes. He just crushes that. Westworld added another one, as he was the Old Bill robot. So far so good for me!
What I hope we find out is that there are other "parks" in this world. I get that it's called "Westworld" and I shouldn't expect more than the wild west, but as a meta-viewer I'm not really seeing the attraction. You can go to Texas or New Mexico and experience a lot of what's in the park. Maybe not the rampant fucking and murdering, but I guess I don't see the need for spending enormous amounts of money to visit the wild west. It's still there, to some extent.
I think The Man in Black might be a new model of robot that actually thinks he is human and is part of some sort of experiment Anthony Hopkins is running. Kind of like Blade Runner maybe. Or an Ironic reversal of the Truman Show with Ed Harris as a robot Truman.
Overall, I'm up on this show and I'll definitely be watching season 1. I do think there is something to Anthony Hopkin's evolution speech. Essentially, in his view, we've reached our potential as humans. The only thing left to do is become gods (his Lazarus analogy points to this).
I think that the reveries are, by design, his quest to create life. Real life. And we're now seeing his plan come to fruition.
The only thing I'm really down on is the acting performance of Sidse Babett Knudsen. I thought her performance came across as flat and lethargic (from an acting standpoint). Accordingly, I had a hard time believing her character and her scenes started to take me out of the show. I hope this is shored up.
Im getting the feeling the man in black, yes is looking for a bigger picture, but im thinking that bigger picture is more worlds. Season 2 in a new world? With all their capabilities hard to believe only world theyd have is the wild west. And the lady overseeing the business part, what was she tslking about with "bigger interests." We were givin no real idea of wut the real world looks. R the bigger interests inserting these AI into the real world? I really think thsts where we're headed and thats how we get our "other worlds".
i need some bald analysis. what day are the bald move westworld podcasts coming out? the preview was published last tuesday, so is it tomorrow? the landing page "coming soon" schedule thing doesn't seem to work anymore.
*edit* disregard, i went and listened to the tail end of the preview and aron said tuesdays.
@Wahl-e I somehow almost completely forgot about Ford's speech. Yes it would seem that using Westworld to create sentient life is his life goal and that his interrogations of the androids is probing for that rather than weeding out glitches.
One quick observation/question: in one scene, a black family is presented as guests in WestWorld. If you are black, why in the hell would you want to go to a simulated reality park that takes you BACK to a time when slavery was legal and/or general racism so prominent (at the very least)? I guess I could presume that the AI's have been programmed without a certain degree of racial prejudice, but that would also raise some ethical concerns in regard to the white-washing of American history. I don't think it's a big problem, but more of an interesting thought to consider about the world being built in the show.
I love the old timey rendition of black hole sun playing in the saloon. nice touch. Also the orchestral paint it black. If this show is going to take modern music and do it in old west style for the entire series, I'm all in. love that choice.
Not particularly related to your point, but...
My background is in music publishing - it's nearly impossible to use a Rolling Stones song in TV or movies. They maintain very strict control over their catalogue and routinely turn down huge offers from massive directors, prestige projects etc. I was shocked to hear 'Paint it Black'!
Also, Paint It Black was used in a mid-80s TV show called Tour of Duty, if I remember correctly. If I remember correctly they got screwed over on their earlier songs, rights-wise, so maybe this is why Paint It Black used more often? Plus, interesting that both of the modern songs that had old-timey renditions have "black" in the title.
I liked this show, didn't love it. The whole mystery about the bigger game being played out in West World--this doesn't excite me. After seeing a big mystery done poorly in a number of shows (paging Mr. Robot, and before that Lost and Battlestar Galactica) I'm not a fan of these looming mysteries that more often than not are disappointing once revealed.
I'll definitely watch the next few episodes, however.
Interesting that they did covers of pop songs with the word "black" (Black Hole Sun, Paint It Black) in the title and then ended with Johnny Cash.
Robert Ford was the "coward" who killed Jesse James (shot Jesse in the back in his home.)
He went on to create a career for himself telling tall tales of the Old West.
Ford was killed by a man named Edward O'Kelley for reasons never adequately explained but presumably stemming from something related to being two Old West Guys(tm).
One quick observation/question: in one scene, a black family is presented as guests in WestWorld. If you are black, why in the hell would you want to go to a simulated reality park that takes you BACK to a time when slavery was legal and/or general racism so prominent (at the very least)? I guess I could presume that the AI's have been programmed without a certain degree of racial prejudice, but that would also raise some ethical concerns in regard to the white-washing of American history. I don't think it's a big problem, but more of an interesting thought to consider about the world being built in the show.
It's "educational" for 1 and 2 this is a fantasy world, so while the aura of the time may be used, it doesn't mean everything else that came with it also does. Would you rather live/experience history or read about it. For those with the means, I am going to guess almost everyone would say live/experience it, especially when no harm can be done to you.
Yea, I'm not necessarily saying it's a problem, it just has some interesting implications. I could certainly see some folks wanting to live out a Django-esque fantasy.
There was something funny going on with the flies. They would trigger reactions to swat/kill in a human but that is programmed out of the Hosts. At least up until the end with Dolores swats one on her face after the interrogation scene when one wanders across her eye.
Is there more to these flies? The sheriff looking for the outlaw went berserk when one landed on his face. Was it the reveries that shorted him out because he was fighting the urge to kill the fly? or is the fly just another robot/host? I doubt the second part but its interesting to think about.
The sheriff also lost his scalp, similar to the card dealer. The Man in Black must be getting around...
Comments
Not particularly related to your point, but...
My background is in music publishing - it's nearly impossible to use a Rolling Stones song in TV or movies. They maintain very strict control over their catalogue and routinely turn down huge offers from massive directors, prestige projects etc. I was shocked to hear 'Paint it Black'!
IT’S BEEN AROUND AS LONG AS DISNEYLAND — OR LONGER - One character in Westworld has been a customer for 30 years, and the show suggests the park has been around even longer. While they haven’t yet specified a year in the future in which the show takes place, Nolan likens the longevity of Westworld to the real world legacy of Disneyland in our present day.
“We came up with an early estimate number which I’d hate to relate,” Nolan said. “One of the ideas that’s gently touched on, in our world this park has been extant for more than 30 years. You drive around L.A. and you see the Disney 60 signs. Disneyland … ours is very, very different but the idea of a fantasy world that you’d think was compelling enough to last generations. You’d take your grandkids to Disneyland and regale them with the stories of when they were there originally, 60 years ago. If you create something in this fantasy space that was powerful enough, lasting enough, it becomes an institution. We imagine in our show that Westworld has become an institution, a place that people can come to and they bring their kids back to.”
IF YOU STAY LONG ENOUGH, YOU’LL FIGURE OUT WESTWORLD’S SECRETS - Ed Harris plays the 30-year Westworld veteran. He’s come up with a persona, The Man in Black, who seems like a villain in the pilot. Harris promises that the more he throws Westworld into chaos, the more his plan will be revealed. No matter how cool robots are, you don’t keep coming back for 30 years just to ride horses and shoot robots.
“There’s a much deeper purpose for him being there by this point,” Harris said. “He thinks there’s some deeper level to what’s happening in this park. He thinks perhaps Tony’s character is in charge of something that is not really obvious on the surface, and he’s probing. He thinks the more chaos he causes, the more destruction he can create with these AI folks, it’s not random. He is not just going around killing everybody he sees. There is always some narrative going along that he’s following that somebody gets in his way, and he has to blow them away.”
i didn't realise teddy was james marsden until someone in this thread said it and good god that man aged like a fine wine
looking forward to seeing where the show goes, really interesting pilot
And the closing song was by the Man in Black, Johnny Cash
I loved episode 1 - and I won't be cancelling my HBO NOW subscription like I originally planned to until GOT returned. I guess I will just have to keep paying the man in the GOT off season. But I think WW is going to be worth it.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is something that I did not catch until my second watch. We open on the narrator's discussion with Delores. A bit of foreshadowing, or in media res, right? Because as we know, towards the end of the episode, the scene plays out again.
But, as I watched a second time, I identified the opening scene narrator as the main designer/programmer - Jeffrey Wright's character. I mean, we never see him, but it's definitely his voice. But at the end of the episode, it's the security guy questioning Dolores. It's the same conversation, but a different narrator? Why?!?! No clue.
Could it be that we are seeing a double simulationary world? - simulation on top of a simulation? No clue, but I'd love to see if you guys caught this and what your thoughts on it are.
What I hope we find out is that there are other "parks" in this world. I get that it's called "Westworld" and I shouldn't expect more than the wild west, but as a meta-viewer I'm not really seeing the attraction. You can go to Texas or New Mexico and experience a lot of what's in the park. Maybe not the rampant fucking and murdering, but I guess I don't see the need for spending enormous amounts of money to visit the wild west. It's still there, to some extent.
Overall, I'm up on this show and I'll definitely be watching season 1. I do think there is something to Anthony Hopkin's evolution speech. Essentially, in his view, we've reached our potential as humans. The only thing left to do is become gods (his Lazarus analogy points to this).
I think that the reveries are, by design, his quest to create life. Real life. And we're now seeing his plan come to fruition.
The only thing I'm really down on is the acting performance of Sidse Babett Knudsen. I thought her performance came across as flat and lethargic (from an acting standpoint). Accordingly, I had a hard time believing her character and her scenes started to take me out of the show. I hope this is shored up.
Robert Ford was the "coward" who killed Jesse James (shot Jesse in the back in his home.)
He went on to create a career for himself telling tall tales of the Old West.
Ford was killed by a man named Edward O'Kelley for reasons never adequately explained but presumably stemming from something related to being two Old West Guys(tm).
Teddy Flood's first name is presumably Edward.
Is there more to these flies? The sheriff looking for the outlaw went berserk when one landed on his face. Was it the reveries that shorted him out because he was fighting the urge to kill the fly? or is the fly just another robot/host? I doubt the second part but its interesting to think about.
The sheriff also lost his scalp, similar to the card dealer. The Man in Black must be getting around...