101 - "The Original"



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  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    edited October 2016
    Regarding the daily reset, they mentioned in the episode having like 400 plus individual story lines all going at once. So I don't see how a daily reset would be a problem.

    I assume it's a bit like Disney, you can't do it all in one day or even one trip. They also have larger weekly and maybe even once a year events as seen by the saloon robbery they moved up.

    You would want a good balance of scripting and emergent content. Too much unscripted content and you could end up with a Jurassic Park situation where the T rex doesn't eat when you want it to.
  • I have only watched Ep1 twice, and have read other essays about the episode (but not heard the podcast).

    Loop duration: I concur that the loop may be days, or perhaps weeks long. Guests should be able to join and leave the loop at any time. If the train is the only point of entrance/exit, then the logistics of moving that many people on that train would need abundant time. I thought I heard someone say there were currently a thousand or so guests in the park at present?

    In watching the episode a second time, I can make alternate suppositions about what is motivating any given action. For example, the MiB taking Dolores to the barn. Several comments claim this is a rape fantasy. That was my first thought, too, until I gave it a second thought. Why this fantasy? If this is anticipated behavior of a guest, and the guest knows such activity is not forbidden, why go to the barn? I saw no other guests to pass judgement. It is an intriguing theory that the MiB has found the barn to be an obscured hidey-hole. I do not concur that Dolores is involved with the MiB's plotting.

    "Kissey" (sp?) was scalped by the MiB. And so was the Sheriff, but I thinkthat was done by the technicians as a means to survey the CPU (or perhaps a control panel, diagnostic repository, whatever, for the CPU). Kissey's scalp had what some are saying is a map. To me, tt looks like more of a (artistically drawn) electronic circuit.

    Then there was the unstated reason why only 3 liters of blood was left in Kissey to keep the body alive. I did not see a jump in continuity that would allow an unseen amount of time to pass for a torturous interrogation. Kissey woke up, told of his precarious state, attempted to flee, made it to the cliff, and was scalped. Can we presume Kissey then 'BSOD'd' not having whatever the scalp actually is? Perhaps not. Perhaps after scalping, the MiB did have the opportunity to interrogate kissey. And needed three liters of 'hydraulic fluid' to animate the mouth.

  • I also like the "Westworld is on terraformed Mars or at least not on Earth" theory, but as for the phrasing of "rotation" what was the exact sentence used? I could see it being used in the sense that these people 'rotate' from park to park, if other similar parks exist for instance. Other than that it could be they rotate in their job positions regularly? But I don't think that makes sense.
  • I will have to review the episode again, and not that my observation would follow through to the rest of the series, but...

    @Hatorian speculated that there exists a real threat to the guests if the hosts go "off script" (i.e., 'snapped'). @akritenbrink said "We know the guns in this park don't work on humans, but certainly a knife still would."

    I thought I heard Bernard say a host cannot harm a guest (as a rather incontestable assertion), and I take that to mean regardless of how far 'snapped' a host goes. "Core programming", or some such.

    I do not recall seeing a knife fight. That is, perhaps the "core programming" absolutely requires the use of firearms with its "simunition" to play out any kind of deadly action.

    Fist fights? I'm sure there was a bit of that in the saloon.
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  • Yes. But I failed to place my comment in context - sorry.

    I was referring to the cowering guests during the wild shootout in the saloon, and the (I found incredibly well choreographed) shootout just outside the saloon (with Paint It Black). With 'simunition' flying everywhere, guests are still not in harm's way (mostly - do not step in front of a charging horse).
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  • edited October 2016
    I see that the story writer (who was really over the top with his displeasure at putting so many players at one time out of commission), as well as the rest of the staff, were unbelievably blasé about any such chaos. So, in the lifetime of the park, I suppose they've figured that all out.
  • First off. Love this show already.
    Rewatching and thought the opening scene was the same as the scene with approx :10 to go. First scene is Jeremy wright questioning her and second scene is Hemsworth. Thought we were seeing opening scene again but it appears two different interviews.
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    TIL there is a third Hemsworth
  • edited October 2016
    Those gorgeous shots with Dolores and Teddy at the beginning of the episode are from Castle Valley, in eastern Utah, not far from Moab. I'm not aware of where they shot the rest of Season 1. But, I've recognized some of the buttes on the holographic maps from Arches National Park, also in eastern Utah. If they shot more from this general area, we're in for some serious eye candy. I try to camp and backpack around here at least once a year. Ego crushing scenery.
  • On rewatch:

    1- Geoffrey Wright's interrogation of Dolores is really pretty weird.  Why is he giving her all this information about the setup of Westworld if he wants to know what she knows and how she feels about her life already?  Is he trying to shape her reactions in the future?

    2- The conversation about the Judas steer that the rest of the herd follows at the behest of the ranchers is a metaphor for how the park and androids run

    3- The sheriff leading the posse up to get Hector glitches immediately after a fly lands on his face.

    4- Lazarus and resurrecting the dead and the Dixie Flatline is what Ford is up to. 

    5.  If the town resets every day, that's pretty lame for the guest who just saved the town from the bank robbers. He only gets a few hours of adulation before nobody but other guests remember him.

    6.  The security guy asks Dolores if she would ever hurt a living thing.  She says of course not.  Teddy, however, took multiple shots at Ed Harris's character, and seemed very surprised that nothing happened to Harris.  I wonder what the normal interaction between host and guest is?  Are hosts involved in shootouts shooting at guests, but the bullets have no effect on guests?  Or are hosts never supposed directly take and aggressive action against guests?  From Harris's reaction, dealing with Teddy is an expected part of the Dolores storyline that he has played through many times- but that would seem to mean that a host can attack a guest as part of its script, which doesn't exactly go along with not killing a fly programming. Of course, Ed Harris's status might not be straightforward.  

    7. Dolores kills a fly.  Uh oh.
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    Rewatched the episode and caught the "cold storage" scene again. Yeah there's definitely something interesting going on there. And the globe there does say "Delos". Possible reference to the movies theme park? Confirming that this is one of a few "worlds"? Or maybe this Westworld is the only one left?

    May be a stupid question, but does the killing of the fly confirm anything? I mean it certainly is meant to play that way but do we know the fly was real? I mean they were making horses. Can't imagine it'd be tough to build a ton of flys.

    I'm really digging this show.
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited October 2016
    Also I forgot the robot origin stories and discussions and the Abernathy/Ford showdown is a cross between Frankenstein and the torturing vivsectioning scientist in the Island of Dr. Moreau.

    "May be a stupid question, but does the killing of the fly confirm anything? I mean it certainly is meant to play that way but do we know the fly was real? I mean they were making horses. Can't imagine it'd be tough to build a ton of flys. "

    It's awfully suspcious that the Sheriff glitches when the fly lands on him.  Did he want to kill it?
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    It kind of looked like he wanted to. Or maybe I just see that now since Dolores did.

    Anyways, there's a thread in Reddit about the Delos terms of service about how all the animals are host EXCEPT the flies. Specifically them. So yeah... Dolores is on the hunt!
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited October 2016
    Not really vibing with me yet. A lot of it feels really heavy handed - it's a problem when I feel like Prometheus did a far better job with robot sentience than this. 

    Little worried if HBO is banking this to be it's new GOT. The writing is just not what GOT was in the beginning. 

    And the acting felt stilted as fuck. Now, it kinda goes with the territory-  being robots, of having to reset their emotions, etc. Anothony Hopkins and Jeffery Wright were only ones who's acting didnt get on my nerves. But they are both legends. 
  • voodooratvoodoorat Atlanta
    edited October 2016
    well, game of thrones had a pretty big advantage over this in the writing department and not just because (imo) martin's a far better writer than crichton (not that he's horrible like dan brown, ha) but also because there were thousands and thousands of pages of story/background to paint the world in pretty elaborate detail so the showrunners at least initially just had to take that and transform it into a show...

    i watched it again and i'm definitely in, i do wonder how deeply they're going to get into the "lore" and explanations of westworld the park and the corporate entity that runs it.  this was an ambitious pilot in terms of table setting but i'm sure it still doesn't give a very complete picture of what the series is going to really be about.
  • ghm3 said:

    @akritenbrink Yeah I was responding to two posts up not your second one. It doesn't make any sense for the corporate lady to be an android, the lead programmer wanted to capture her subdued angry facial reaction; why would he want to do this if she's already an android?

    Because she is an android and he wants to show the team what a great job they did.
    ghm3 said:

    Furthermore he's got to be the second-most familiar person with androids in the whole place second only to Ford, I wouldn't buy that he's working around an android so much and has no idea, especially when he's obviously paying so much attention to people's mannerisms.

    Who said he has no idea? We aren't deep enough into this show yet to know who's in the know and who isn't on which secrets that may or may not have been revealed. ;) Maybe he built her and she's like a beta version of a more sentient robot who can also smoke cigarettes and speak with a mildly Scandinavian accent.

    Show them what a great job they did? They'd certainly be well aware of this if they created her? I took it to mean he wanted to capture her facial expression to integrate into the androids' behavior in continuing to make them more realistic. And therefore basically as a subtle cue that she isn't an android. The him not knowing is the only reconciliation I can think of for him trying to capture a facial reaction, because if it's already in an android already there's no reason to cause it's been done already.

    But yeah we're all just spit-balling guesses at this point, so much speculation from only a pilot haha
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  • @akritenbrink Yeah so do I, but I like the idea of the Hollywood writer guy being the android since he's by far the most animated of the staff we've seen so far.
  • I never considered the flies to be alive. But I have no measure of how far down the size scale critters can be built (dogs, cats, snakes, scorpions,beetles, ants).

    If I am to believe that the hosts are to act similar to human capabilities, and also the flies to act as similar to real flies, I find it preposterous to think Dolores could swat that fly on her neck - and instead then not simply to swish it away.

    (Haven't read any other's analysis about the flies.)
  • Isn't the whole "never kill a living thing" kind of ridiculous? If there are flies buzzing around, presumably there are ants, spiders, maggots, etc. crawling all over the place. How could they possibly walk through the wilderness without constantly killing things, even if you don't include things like plants or bacteria. If that directive overrides everything else, shouldn't their programming force them to always be motionless? Why not just program them not to kill humans specifically?
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  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    Someone posted the full Terms and Conditions for visiting Westworld and it is really really interesting

    Quick notes:
    The flies are alive so Dolores did in fact violate her code. 
    Animals and hosts have a "good Samaritan" code to help protect guests. Think this was mentioned during the podcast,
    Little tibit about the weapons. 

  • edited October 2016
    I am reading a bit about how the hosts are programmed to not react to the flies as a possible accidental killing of one when simply swishing it away. I've never been able to do that. Flies are very good at getting out of the way of my attempts to swat them.

    These commenters are using an early scene where a fly crawls across the face/eye of Dolores. They are saying her programming inhibits the recognition of the fly, let alone the action that would send it off elsewhere.

    But I say that this scene has Dolores in a "maintenance" or "diagnostic" mode where only the jaw and mouth mechanics are energized. Did Dolores even blink during this examination? Everything else is limp and the body has established itself in a "maintenance" seated posture to avoid tipping over.

    Actually, that opening scene has a disconnect. The voices are participating in an examination, but the video is just Dolores sitting alone, and a fly - inside the maintenance complex - lands on her face. So, she could be completely de-energized.
  • When they're asking whether her core programming is still intact, Delores literally says she would never hurt a living thing, doesn't she? I thought that was the whole point of the fly getting swatted, and pretty heavy-handed at that.
  • It's still odd that Teddy attacked the Man in Black and was shocked that nothing happened to him. That's a guest he tried to harm. If he had a knife or a rock, would he have gone after the Man in Black with that? He was definitely trying to harm a living thing, unless the Man In Black isn't actually a guest....
  • @Doctor_Nick It's possible that the simulation running Teddy's "consciousness" isn't aware that the gun is useless against the MiB, but his core programming can distinguish humans from androids and guns from knives, only interfering in Teddy's decision-making when his attempts at violence would actually be effective. If he tried to stab the MiB it would be like you trying to stop your own heart from beating by sheer willpower.
  • Chiden2Chiden2 Los Angeles, CA
    Has anyone been to the westworld website https://discoverwestworld.com? It's pretty awesome - you can "live" chat with a host. Whoever wrote the script put a lot of thought into it - kind of reminds me of bots like SmarterChild from back in the AIM days. 

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