Walking Dead - 701: "The Day Will Come When You Won't Be"

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Comments

  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    I think the people complaining about the excess gore haven't been watching this show. Other than the fact they were main characters, there wasn't really anything that excessive compared to what's come before.
    TaraC73Ashley
  • I watched the walking dead on Monday afternoon and I had a terrible attitude about it.  I thought I am going to find out who died and then turn it off.  However, much to my chagrin, this episode was pretty good.  I still think they will blow it in the future, but for now I am almost back on board.   
  • Surprised by the high praise the podcast gave this episode.  Yes, it was pure torture porn and the lingering shots of Glenn's battered head and eyeball.  Yeah, I get it that fans of the comics have come to believe that this one shot is somehow the most important shot in the history of the comic but I don't see any purpose served except to thrill fans with gore.  
    And the praise for Andrew Lincoln is ridiculous.  Lincoln has been doing this kind of way-over-the-top acting from the beginning.  When he's not yelling, he's crying or having some other existential crisis and to be honest it is all pretty boring now.  I'm sure next episode we'll see him twitching back at the house as he tries to process everything.  And it will be the most animated psychological breakdown in screen history.
    So are we now in time where stories don't have endings?  It used to be that the climax and finale of a story was the big payoff.  As I understand it, AMC and the creators have decided that TWD will never have a finale as long as they have enough people watching.  And that guarantees that whatever finale finally comes will be completely lame and rushed because it was not written with any sort of thought or care but simply as an afterthought to say goodbye to something that no longer serves their purpose.  
  • I think the people complaining about the excess gore haven't been watching this show. Other than the fact they were main characters, there wasn't really anything that excessive compared to what's come before.

    Absolutely! People have already forgotten a lot of the other deaths; randoms being torn apart as people stood and watched. If anything, this episode should've finally been granted the use of the F-bomb--imagine Carl saying, "Just do it, Dad. Fuck this guy!"
    TaraC73Murderbear
  • Rank in order of evil:

    Negen
    Ramsay Bolton 
    Joffrey Lannister
    Dr. Evil



    spikewhiz
  • edited October 2016
    17 million viewers for this episode - Their second highest ever rating. 

    This is why I don't believe those folks who say, on a regular basis, "I'm done with this shit"
    They just keep coming back.

    And those who say they are rage quitting over this episode - See you next week. 

    TWD is by no means perfect, but how many shows are ?







    DharmaBotTaraC73HatorianAshleyMichellehisdudeness915DoubleA_RonUnderwoodDani
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    flajetfan said:

    Rank in order of evil:


    Negen
    Ramsay Bolton 
    Joffrey Lannister
    Dr. Evil



    Ramsay Bolton
    Joffrey Lannister
    Negan
    Dr Evil
    TheEconomist
  • I quit TWD = Diet starts Monday
  • TheEconomistTheEconomist Chattanooga, TN
    tabs64 said:

    17 million viewers for this episode - Their second highest ever rating. 


    This is why I don't believe those folks who say, on a regular basis, "I'm done with this shit"
    They just keep coming back.

    And those who say they are rage quitting over this episode - See you next week. 

    TWD is by no means perfect, but how many shows are ?








    It is Peak TV there's too many shows. At this particular hour of 9pm Sunday I'd rather of watched Westworld or Madame Secretary or any of the dozens of shows getting pumped out by Netflix and Amazon.

    I realized I've become a bad gamer for this show. As illustrated in this article http://www.vulture.com/2016/10/westworld-man-in-black-is-a-classic-bad-gamer.html

    I'm over playing this game (show) as its meant to be and just want to pick apart it's bugs and flaws. This is about the only way I can enjoy this show now as its burnt all my good will with schlock and cheap tricks and gimmicks. This essentially hate watching.

    This is another critique by Matt Zoller Seitz I found illuminating for some of my other feelings toward TWD.
    http://www.vulture.com/2016/10/walking-dead-empty-violence.html

    If the people making this show would just admit it's violence and shock for its own sake I could live with it but when they pretend they're trying to make some prestige drama about characters just stop the BS. That's another source of disdain for me.
  • TheEconomistTheEconomist Chattanooga, TN

    flajetfan said:

    Rank in order of evil:


    Negen
    Ramsay Bolton 
    Joffrey Lannister
    Dr. Evil



    Ramsay Bolton
    Joffrey Lannister
    Negan
    Dr Evil


    I don't find Negan to be particularly evil yet. Cruel perhaps but with a purpose.
    Rick and his crew are arguably more evil. They murdered dozens and dozens of Negan's people just on the WORD of a few sketchy people from Hilltop. Negan at this point is defending himself from a Rick led menace. Negan's cruelty is meant to get submission from Rick when he and his crew could be justifiably be executed.

    Ramsay Bolton is way more evil. He was cruel merely for personal amusement. He engaged in all kinds of evil acts just to screw with people or personal advancement.
    MurderbearMike4000hisdudeness915Julzmanhattnik
  • TaraC73TaraC73 Manchester NH
    @tabs64 preach it!
    Michelle
  • If I can say something that I believed was missing from this episode:  A little ray of hope.

    GOT nails this, they want to make you crawl in bed and weep, but then they give you something - even if it turns out to be a lie - to make you re-invest.  They give you something to cling to and say to yourself "This sucks right now, but the Calvary is coming, and THEN we will see!"  Sometimes they immediately kill the Calvary in the first 5 minutes of the next episode, but it takes the sting out.

    I believe this would have made this episode a lot less bleak, and made a lot more people more invested in the rest of the season.

    The end of the episode happens exactly as it did before.  The Zombie drops to lap up the fresh blood of our fallen.  Rick looks totally broken.

    There is a cut to Carol and Morgan.  Someone asks them, maybe off-screen if they don't want to spoil future characters, "So do you guys have any people?"  Morgan and Carol exchange meaningful looks.  Morgan says "Yeah, we got family back at home."

    This leaves us with the devastation of Negan's destruction.  It gives us hope for the utterly chaos and destruction to be rained upon the Savior's head by ==Bat Carol== Avenger of Alexandria and her sidekick, Morgan.
    TheEconomist
  • tabs64 said:

    17 million viewers for this episode - Their second highest ever rating. 


    This is why I don't believe those folks who say, on a regular basis, "I'm done with this shit"
    They just keep coming back.

    And those who say they are rage quitting over this episode - See you next week. 

    TWD is by no means perfect, but how many shows are ?







    Yep. im sure at least a few people who said they quit will be commenting on TWD next week.
    MichelleKingKobra
  • I've come to realize now that the Bald Move community has attracted a lot of hate-watchers, that's why these threads are basically all complaints every week. The feedback in the podcast was crazy negative. I'm game for tearing apart a bad episode but to see a good episode get shit on here is pretty annoying. I felt the same disbelief as A-Ron listening to those e-mails. It seems like the WD subreddit had universal praise for this episode; I understand that that site is for fans of the show but honestly if you aren't a fan of the show why are you watching Season 7? 
    Ashleyphoenyx1023MichelleTaraC73DaniKingKobratabs64Julz
  • gjulleen said:

    If I can say something that I believed was missing from this episode:  A little ray of hope.


    GOT nails this, they want to make you crawl in bed and weep, but then they give you something - even if it turns out to be a lie - to make you re-invest.  They give you something to cling to and say to yourself "This sucks right now, but the Calvary is coming, and THEN we will see!"  Sometimes they immediately kill the Calvary in the first 5 minutes of the next episode, but it takes the sting out.

    I believe this would have made this episode a lot less bleak, and made a lot more people more invested in the rest of the season.

    The end of the episode happens exactly as it did before.  The Zombie drops to lap up the fresh blood of our fallen.  Rick looks totally broken.

    There is a cut to Carol and Morgan.  Someone asks them, maybe off-screen if they don't want to spoil future characters, "So do you guys have any people?"  Morgan and Carol exchange meaningful looks.  Morgan says "Yeah, we got family back at home."

    This leaves us with the devastation of Negan's destruction.  It gives us hope for the utterly chaos and destruction to be rained upon the Savior's head by ==Bat Carol== Avenger of Alexandria and her sidekick, Morgan.
    I have thought a lot about why TWD keeps making similar pacing and portion mistakes, generally speaking, and the best I can come up with is that the people behind the scenes of the show are so wrapped up in making it, so involved in it year-round, that they can no longer see the forest of mistakes for each exciting single tree that they come across. In other words, they really, truly may not have realized how difficult it would be for the audience to wait 6+ months for continuation, because they look at it as an unending process, rather than a weekly little escape... Too forgiving of me?
    Mike4000
  • I feel like I'm complaining, I actually really liked this episode.

    I just feel having a check in with Morgan and Carol would have been a good episode cliffhanger and a positive ending to a bleak episode. I know I would have felt more excited--in coming badass!-- instead of just really sad.

    I loved the entire episode, but my opinion is that the extra 30 seconds of film time would have left the audience excited instead of demoralized, wouldn't have eroded the impact of Rick having been broken, as well as reminding more casual viewers that there are more players than the ones on their knees.

    The only conclusion I can reach is that the show makers wanted us to feel hopeless, they succeeded, and that's where a lot of the complaining is originating from, in my opinion.
  • AshleyAshley Atlanta, GA
    gjulleen said:

    If I can say something that I believed was missing from this episode:  A little ray of hope.


    GOT nails this, they want to make you crawl in bed and weep, but then they give you something - even if it turns out to be a lie - to make you re-invest.  They give you something to cling to and say to yourself "This sucks right now, but the Calvary is coming, and THEN we will see!"  Sometimes they immediately kill the Calvary in the first 5 minutes of the next episode, but it takes the sting out.



    While I agree that this episode was bleak as hell, I don't think Game of Thrones is any better, lol. I remember feeling similarly gutted after the Red Wedding and S5 finale. It was mentioned that GoT has its moments of hope and levity, and that's absolutely true, but so does TWD. Some of the really great moments of this show are the reunions, not to mention Abraham's one-liners. I mean, I still can't watch "No Sanctuary" without tearing up at the Carol/Daryl and Rick/Judith/Carl hugs. Thrones is obviously just a much better show, but I've always felt the familial aspect of TWD is very touching where GoT can be quite cold sometimes, and it's pretty much what keeps me invested in these people.

    Also, I hope this doesn't count as a spoiler since it was on Talking Dead, but Gimple did say next episode will be much lighter, which I think is a good move.

    Dummy
  • Real_NeoReal_Neo North Carolina
    The episode would have been considered epic had it occurred when it should have at the end
    of last season! There is nothing terribly wrong with the content its the timing they had a problem
    with this time. I have been a huge fan of this show but last year really pissed me off. I understood
    why this year, when the impact I should have felt for the characters was non-existent. We basically
    used the whole first episode to wrap up what should have already been done. In my opinion Episode
    Two will actually be One for me. Like Dennis Miller says "That's just my opinion I could be wrong."
  • EMAW42 said:

    I've come to realize now that the Bald Move community has attracted a lot of hate-watchers, that's why these threads are basically all complaints every week. The feedback in the podcast was crazy negative. I'm game for tearing apart a bad episode but to see a good episode get shit on here is pretty annoying. I felt the same disbelief as A-Ron listening to those e-mails. It seems like the WD subreddit had universal praise for this episode; I understand that that site is for fans of the show but honestly if you aren't a fan of the show why are you watching Season 7? 

    Mostly because I want to see how the story turns out, and because I enjoy some of the episodes, and because A Ron's favorite arc is coming up. If Negan had been a little quieter, he might have worked for me, but he just didn't.

    S. Smith
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    edited October 2016
    For me @EMAW42, this show has about a 70-75% success rate. Overall, I still like it. As @Real_Neo said, it wasn't that the content was bad, it was that the timing sucked. If they had killed them last season it would have been a million times more devastating. This is one of the most watched shows in history, they don't need to resort to this crap of dragging things out and making sure we all come back for the new season. Or the "Oh man, you're gonna cry SO hard when you see what happens!" It's cheap and it's lame.

    I'm glad to be past this moment and we can get to the real stuff this season!
    TheEconomistOliviaDReal_NeoS. Smith
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    edited October 2016
    Interesting discussion in the feedback about horror entertainment and feelings of guilt or unease with the level of sadism on the show.

    I'm essentially a Jim type viewer.  I've been a fan of horror, and bad horror in particular, since childhood.  Red Letter Media's "Best of the Worst" is a trip down memory lane for me.  A grainy, poorly tracked, VHS trip :)

    On the subject of people loving this kind of entertainment but having no capacity to do these things in real life, I think of our human reactions being on two axes: impulsive and empathetic.

    If you have low empathy...are on the narcissistic/psychopathic scale...but no violent impulses, you might be an aggressive, CEO type.  Ruthless in business but with no particular investment in pointless violence.  Gordon Gekko putting people's coffee down because lunch is for wimps...type..stuff.

    If you have normal empathy but violent/sadistic impulses...you might be a horror storyteller.  Fascinated with violence as a cautionary tale.  A George Romero or Quentin Tarantino.  "Don't be a dick, otherwise THIS might happen to you!" (ears are sliced off, heads explode, everybody dead!)

    It's when you lack empathy AND have violent impulses that we end up with a Ted Bundy or Negan type, who might brutalize people for practical reasons or just for the hell of it.

    I tend to be in the "normal empathy/sadistic impulses" range.  Saw "A Clockwork Orange" at a young age and it really imprinted on me that you can simultaneously take joy in violent entertainment while internalizing the anti-violence in the message.

    Not to flagrantly plug plug our cast, but we'll be doing a Halloween special on George Romero's original Dead Trilogy this weekend. Since Bald Move listeners are the best listeners in the world, we'd love to hear what you think about the evolution of Team Bub: nattercast@gmail.com
    Dummy
  • I do believe Rick was broken in the moment Negan relented on making him chop Carl's arm, during his sheepish "he's our family too" interaction with Maggie and even upon first spotting the stray walker who would later lap head-pulp out of the gravel. However when Rick checked the rear view to see the walker slurping his family members' mush from the ground, the camera did an amazing job of showing every stage of the grief process in Rick's eyes, ending with unbridled anger that Negan thought he'd eliminated. The scene cuts to black just as Rick's eyes tell us "vengeance IS coming." Rewatch 46:09-46:12; Rick's emotional transition in synch with the score's shift from delicate to dark is breathtaking.
    Original_Joseph
  • EMAW42 said:

    I've come to realize now that the Bald Move community has attracted a lot of hate-watchers, that's why these threads are basically all complaints every week. The feedback in the podcast was crazy negative. I'm game for tearing apart a bad episode but to see a good episode get shit on here is pretty annoying. I felt the same disbelief as A-Ron listening to those e-mails. It seems like the WD subreddit had universal praise for this episode; I understand that that site is for fans of the show but honestly if you aren't a fan of the show why are you watching Season 7? 

    I've seen it in posts (people looking forward to hate watxh and then listen to the podcast bash the show). Of course when the guys like it, sometimes it throws people through a loop ;) insae the same thing in Mr Robot threads. It's the one phenomena I never got (hate watching when you don't have to). With so much good TV being made it seems like a waste of time. Knowing how many viewed this show I was ready for a heavily one sided poo show, it doesn't seem that bad. Of course, I wonder how many will post to say "I'm glad I stopped watching" or "this time I'm really done" ;)
    phoenyx1023
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    To give the casual fans perspective that didn't like the episode because of the violence, this is my wife's opinion (she quit watching half way through).

    It wasn't so much the violence or gore that got to her. For example when Hershel was beheaded by the Gov. she was fine with it. And honsotly that was more gory and arguably Hershel was a more likable character than Abraham and IMO show Glenn.

    It was the fact they spent basically two full episodes and close to a feature length film focusing on the whole situation. It was just too much for my wife. It wasn't about the gore or violence it was the fact that that's all there was in the episode.

    In fact that's all the show is anymore. It's 6 episodes of people walking around in the woods followed but some sadistic twist.

    I'm going to keep watching but if we have two episodes of the Carol and Morgan show walking through the woods, followed by episodes entirely focused on Tara, and then a few with Rick monologing about "this is the way things are now". With only the final episode or two advancing the Negan plot even I might quit the show. And I watch almost exclusively because I like bald move content. Without the podcast I would probably have long ago quit.

    DharmaBot
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    For those that know about ratings, how is DVR factored in? I'm really curious. Does my recording of a show count towards that number? I haven't entirely noped out yet but I will continue to watch it when I have free time. Spoiled or not. 

    As far as the gore and violence, I'm in agreement with everyone. I had no idea this was a thing until this morning and can't believe there were people complaining about it. I almost wondered if I had missed something. It may have been a bit more than we're used to but it wasn't anything over the top. Seemed fitting for this show. I was surprised they didn't show more with Abraham initially. 
    TaraC73
  • For those that know about ratings, how is DVR factored in? I'm really curious. Does my recording of a show count towards that number? I haven't entirely noped out yet but I will continue to watch it when I have free time. Spoiled or not. 

    As far as the gore and violence, I'm in agreement with everyone. I had no idea this was a thing until this morning and can't believe there were people complaining about it. I almost wondered if I had missed something. It may have been a bit more than we're used to but it wasn't anything over the top. Seemed fitting for this show. I was surprised they didn't show more with Abraham initially. 
    When you see the "live+same day", "live +3" and "live +7" those are usually factoring in DVR watches. While DVR is still counted the "real" money is still in the "live" watching of the show. As far as counting, are you a Nielsen household? If so then yes. I know there are some services that sell DVR #s, but as far as I know Nielsen is still "standalone". Hey have a proprietary formula to say x number of our people watched, means so many million watched.
    WonderedObject
  • TheEconomistTheEconomist Chattanooga, TN
    KingKobra said:

    EMAW42 said:

    I've come to realize now that the Bald Move community has attracted a lot of hate-watchers, that's why these threads are basically all complaints every week. The feedback in the podcast was crazy negative. I'm game for tearing apart a bad episode but to see a good episode get shit on here is pretty annoying. I felt the same disbelief as A-Ron listening to those e-mails. It seems like the WD subreddit had universal praise for this episode; I understand that that site is for fans of the show but honestly if you aren't a fan of the show why are you watching Season 7? 

    I've seen it in posts (people looking forward to hate watxh and then listen to the podcast bash the show). Of course when the guys like it, sometimes it throws people through a loop ;) insae the same thing in Mr Robot threads. It's the one phenomena I never got (hate watching when you don't have to). With so much good TV being made it seems like a waste of time. Knowing how many viewed this show I was ready for a heavily one sided poo show, it doesn't seem that bad. Of course, I wonder how many will post to say "I'm glad I stopped watching" or "this time I'm really done" ;)

    To explain what I have concluded is my hate watching of TWD are a couple factors.

    I enjoy pop culture criticism and the discussions around the zeitgeist. TWD being the biggest show on cable makes it hard to avoid if you want to be in the pop culture conversation.

    As an Asian American I am really interested and invested in the character and portrayal of Glenn. He's one of the super rare Asian characters on tv who isn't a martial arts expert, organized crime gangster, chef, scientist/technician of some sort (usually engineering or computer science), spy, or some comic relief character. He is more or less like me. He doesn't have an accent, is thoroughly American, and fairly normal. It's actually nice his race isn't made much of an issue and can have a pretty drama free interracial relationship and marriage from a racial lens. Perhaps with his death one of my strong links to the show is broken and I'll just let go.

    I also still have some faint hope this show could improve and realize its potential and perhaps I'm being that harsh adult figure that is hyper critical of underachieving youth.
    pavlovsbell
  • Hmmmm....I'm late. Didn't get to watch on Sunday.

    Not sure what to even say.  It was "good".  Argh

    I do think it was a bit much with the violence and I've watched every episode of this show at least twice.  There is something qualitatively different about a gross zombie or a quick cut of Herschel's head and watching two characters you like literally have their skulls smashed to bits.

    And what's interesting is I still don't think they understand horror or tension in a way.  Cause let's be honest.  The most horrifying thing in all of that was Carl's arm and not a drop of blood was spilled.  
     
    Just saying....


    TheEconomistMurderbearLukeCretanBullTaraC73pavlovsbellDegausser24Ashley
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited October 2016

    I mentally checked out of the show after the dumpster dive incident, but watched the rest of the season hoping that they'd turn it around.  I thought that the season finale was terrible, I found myself laughing at the awful writing and implausibility of the whole episode - and that was before the absurd cliffhanger. 

    I had no intention of watching season seven, but realized that giving up the show would also mean giving up the BM podcast and its release time usually fits in nicely with my work schedule (and I like the analysis and laughs within too!).

    So I decided to give it a chance.  I'll admit up front that I had such a negative view of the show that I was hardly an impartial viewer, but at the same time I had ZERO expectation of quality and was hoping to at least like it enough to watch it - if for no other reason than to be able to enjoy the BM podcast.

    Hoping for the best but expecting the worst...and they lived up (down?) to my expectations.  I wasn't overly bothered by the 'torture porn' aspect of the episode (that fit in with my low expectations) but I can't get around how badly written the show is.  Character's motives and actions don't make any sense at all and are inconsistent, things happen because they need to happen and not because there's a reason for them to happen.  The dialogue is absolutely terrible.  I thought that the performances of Negan and Rick (which were suggested to be Emmy-worthy) were - at times at least - cringeworthy bad.

    Anything that this episode could have and should have been was destroyed by the idiotic cliffhanger decision and by the really bad writing.  The cliffhanger was such a calamitous error that it will be nearly impossible to recover from by any objective viewer (the die-hards will likely remain so).  The show's best hope would be (IMO anyway) to put this awful sequence behind them and move on, but I frankly don't trust the writers to do that.

    Unfortunately, I'm out again and done with TWD. 


  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Don't know if there are many fans of Cracked in here but I enjoyed this so I figured I'd post it in here.

    voodooratTaraC73kingbee67
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