Narrative structure of Westworld

edited November 2016 in Westworld
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  • edited November 2016
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  • I think they are prety clearly showing us events that didn't happen in the same time period as the preceding scene.  So we're seeing memories or flashbacks.  For instance, as they mentioned on the podcast, I don't think Ford plucked Dolores out of that Day of the Dead procession the time she was there with William and Logan.  That was an episode from a different time period that is being shown to us.  

    Are Maeve, the MiB, the stray with Elsie and Stubbs, Teddy and the Wyatt story and William and Logan and Dolores all taking place around the same time though, with just flashbacks peppering in from past loops the hosts have been on?  I don't think so.  I think they've been strongly hinting that stuff with William and Logan at the very least are out of sequence with the rest of the show.  For instance, if you go back and look at episodes 1 and 2, the modern train/tube station that William and Logan initially arrive at to be welcomed to Westworld looks awfully, awfully similar (check out the escalators) to the broken down cold storage unit that we find Ford talking to Old Bill in.
    ElisaThe Hand
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  • But William and Logan are probably an extended flashback then.
  • AjasAjas Seattle, WA
    edited November 2016
    If William/Logan are on a way earlier timeline I will be so disappointed with this show and its writers.

    Simple reason why : Teddy tries to teach Dolores how to shoot. Same scene, he gets wrangled away to hunt Wyatt. Next scene Dolores returns to her home and using MiB vision, shoots her assailant and rides off........

    ..... Later MiB finds Teddy strung up, confirming it is a continuation of hunting Wyatt (since old Ford introduced Wyatt as a backstory to Teddy, and MiB recounts to Ford he only now first heard of Wyatt...).

    To Then see Dolores stumble into William's camp horse-in-hand, in the same editing sequence ... In an earlier timeline!!!... is to be so deceiving as to be uninteresting.

    It's honestly such a stupid concept that I can only continue watching the show assuming they've had a more intelligent plan all along.

    The idea of Dolores retracing her steps in brief flashbacks is way cooler, because it's honest with the logic of the story and the editing of the show.
    phoenyx1023
  • AjasAjas Seattle, WA
    But narratively, it is crucial that since only guests have actual aging, non-looping timelines, you can't have many on-screen at once. That way everything is just timeline hearsay.

    The real noodle-bender is, having cured all the other ills... why haven't they cured wrinkliness?

    Or have they? Raised eyebrow face.
  • I really hope William and MIB meet soon so the dual timeline theory can be killed. In an earlier thread I predicted that William and MIB would both end up racing each other to find the maze, and that they might both have host allies helping them. A classic battle of good versus evil. I have not seen any convincing evidence that this is not what is happening. Flashbacks, hallucinations and dream sequences are well-established story-telling devices in television. I don't understand why people recently have started interpreting these devices as literal time-travel, or some kind of convoluted conspiracy, or started believing that multiple characters are the same character. This series is not being directed by David Lynch or Sam Esmail. We have been given no reason to assume that the creators of this show are doing anything tricky or ignoring the well-established conventions of story-telling.
    phoenyx1023The HandDee
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  • I'm not arguing against flashbacks, but flashbacks or memories are not "multiple timelines." 

    It's just the terminology being used that is poor. Many (who are familiar) with Time Travel consider multiple timelines "deviations" from an original "point" in time. When folks talk about it for this show, they are usually referring to points along the same timeline (memories/flashbacks) not deviations that lead to different points. I've said it a few times, but have given up and it's taken off and gone too far to go back now ;) so when people say "multiple timelines" I know they are not talking deviations, but rather different "points" within the same timeline.
  • I really hope William and MIB meet soon so the dual timeline theory can be killed.

    Me to the tv Gods at the start of every ep now.

    Flashbacks, hallucinations and dream sequences are well-established story-telling devices in television. I don't understand why people recently have started interpreting these devices as literal time-travel, or some kind of convoluted conspiracy, or started believing that multiple characters are the same character. This series is not being directed by David Lynch or Sam Esmail. We have been given no reason to assume that the creators of this show are doing anything tricky or ignoring the well-established conventions of story-telling.

    Louder for the people in the back please!

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  • edited November 2016
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  • Ajas said:

     To Then see Dolores stumble into William's camp horse-in-hand, in the same editing sequence ... In an earlier timeline!!!... is to be so deceiving as to be uninteresting.


    Yep. Initially I just assumed that this was natural storytelling. But there's more reasons to think that William/Logan are from 30 years past, meaning that the editing has been intentionally deceiving. We're 6 episodes in and still have not seen definitive evidence to disprove while we continue to see things like the old/new logo, maeve in only the modern storyline / only clementine in the old.
    Elisa
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  • No one has mentioned this (that I have seen) but the Westworld Twitter account tweeted "even the logos have deeper meaning" which really invites people to look at the different logos and come to the conclusion there is 2 or more timelines.
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  • Yea my point was the official Westworld Twitter specifically called out the logos as having a deeper meaning. Why say that if the logos are just different versions.
  • Some more evidence on two timelines.

    1. William and MIB are shot differently. Has bullet technology changed in 30 years?

    2. William and MIB great Delores at the dropped can in the same exact way.

    Good article below.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/westworld-theories-multiple-timelines-who-is-the-man-in-black-who-is-arnold-who-is-wyatt?
  • Do we think the MiB is implanting satellite trackers?

    I don't think he's necessarily raping Dolores and Maeve when he approaches them with the knife in their flashbacks, and opening up the arm is certainly something he could be doing.
    HatorianElisa
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  • I wonder how long MIB has been working on solving the game, because that Maeve flashback is over a year old, at least.
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  • that joanna robinson vf article on the multiple time periods is pretty compelling.
    HatorianElisa
  • voodoorat said:

    that joanna robinson vf article on the multiple time periods is pretty compelling.

    Yep. I was already on board but after reading it I can't imagine how there's any other way it's going to go.
    Elisa
  • edited November 2016

    I wonder how long MIB has been working on solving the game, because that Maeve flashback is over a year old, at least.

    He's been going to the park for 30 years. We know from last episode that her current role/narrative has only been "active" for about a year. So, it's been more than a year the since MIB saw her in her previous role.

    As far as MIB implanting, no that doesn't fit at all. It would need to be someone with access to the tools needed to "heal" the skin and implant the devices. That points directly to an inside job. MIB isn't on the "inside" otherwise he would be able to "cheat" the system and be much more direct with his journey.
  • I believe in the 3 time period thing too. I am keeping an open mind to it not being true though. If you totally believe in a theory and it turns out not to be true it could ruin the show.
    CoryElisa
  • CoryCory New Scotland

    I believe in the 3 time period thing too. I am keeping an open mind to it not being true though. If you totally believe in a theory and it turns out not to be true it could ruin the show.

    I believe I was the first person to bring up the dual time period theory on this board, and like the three time period theory, but I'm not that invested in it.  I enjoy the "ambiguous editing and narratives" and how they could go either way and don't really prove anything (much like Kevin Garvey's madness), but I'm not basing my enjoyment on whether it's true, or not.
    webswingerElisa
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