Who is Wyatt? Is MiB's park experience real? Is the maze real?

edited November 2016 in Westworld
Are we really led to believe MiB was going to be hung by a blindfolded robot horse? 

Let's dissect episode 9, MiB's scene:


- MiB suddenly wakes up and a sees a horse with blindfolded.
- As soon as MiB moves, the horse decides to move.
- We see the MiB with rope around his neck, ready to be strangled by that robot horse.
- MiB has some cat-like reflexes, gets to the knife and cuts the rope just in time.
- A second later, Charlotte walks into the scene and talks casually to MiB.

Are we sure that MiB was about to die in that scene? Is there something more to it than pure reflexes and skills?
I do not believe MiB was remotely in any danger at all. We know from day one that the staff at the park monitors the guests 24/7. So, they have been monitoring and taking care of MiB from the day he stepped into the park.
Another hint at this is the fact Charlotte seemed to be waiting until MiB gets himself out of that situation because she knew MiB would be unharmed. Otherwise, she would've gotten the knife.
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- Hosts becoming sentient:
- Angela is self-aware of who she is.
- Minotour not dying by gunshots.
- Wyatt's man and Angela's involvement making us think they are sentient and want to destroy the makers.

My take:
This is just Ford's narrative. Older hosts as well as newer hosts are part of Ford's new narrative. They are not sentient. They are hosts following a narrative engaging the guests into an adventure that is not westworld anymore. It's something else. It's something more profound.
In Ford's own words: "I've been working on a new narrative for quite some time now". 
Meave's awakening cannot be real. Meave's awakening is part of Ford's big plan. Dr Ford has designed every aspect of the park, from network infrastructures to surveillance and so on. He knows everything and is one step ahead.
He was one step ahead of Elsie. He was several steps ahead of Theresa. He was steps ahead of Charlotte. He was several steps ahead of Bernard. In fact, he was in such control that he didn't even look scared or surprised.
Are we now led to believe he doesn't know about Maeve?

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And lastly,
The new narrative has the MiB as the center character.
image

Behind Charlotte's back, there are 3 characters that we've seen already:
- Prostitute 
- Lawrence's cousin
- New creature Maeve saw in the lab transforming from a plastic-type host to a host being alive.

Then, we have two big photos to the right,
- Teddy
- Guy Teddy sees hung by Wyatt's man in episode 4.

To the left of Charlotte:
- Lawrence's cousin's wife
- Angela
- Minotaur

Above Charlotte we see a row of hosts that we too have seen.
They appear in MiB's journey to solving the "maze".
- General we see hunting down Wyatt with Teddy.
- Ghost Nation characters
- Teddy
- Lawrence's wife
- Sheriff in episode 1 trying to hang Lawrence
- Minotour
etc etc etc.

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In conclusion, does the maze exist? Is it really something that Arnold left behind? Or is it something Dr Ford has been programming the hosts to do over and over?

For those who say we saw Arnold talk to Dolores, therefore Arnold's code must be hidden deep inside those first generation hosts, let me show you a piece of evidence that Arnold might not have to do anything with the maze in those flashbacks:

- We see what we assume is the real Arnold talking to Dolores. But then she asks him about his son. If we already know Bernard had a backstory about his dying son which was false, then this couldn't be "Arnold", could it?

image

The Maze is Dr Ford's new narrative.

Who is Wyatt?
Who knows
ElisaChiefPizza

Comments

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  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited November 2016
    "- We see what we assume is the real Arnold talking to Dolores. But then she asks him about his son. If we already know Bernard had a backstory about his dying son which was false, then this couldn't be "Arnold", could it?"

    Not so fast my friend.  First of all Arnold may have had a dead child, we know there was a tragedy in his life. Less likely because Ford didn't explicitly say that when explaining life to Bernard. Secondly, and more importantly, the place you took that screenshot from is not where Dolores and Bernardold talk about the Maze. We have almost certainly been seeing multiple points in Bernardold's timeline.  Present day Bernard probably does not know the same things about the Maze that Arnold did, and that's still most likely Arnold telling Dolores to go to the Maze.
    ElisaThe Hand
  • edited November 2016

    "- We see what we assume is the real Arnold talking to Dolores. But then she asks him about his son. If we already know Bernard had a backstory about his dying son which was false, then this couldn't be "Arnold", could it?"


    Not so fast my friend.  First of all Arnold may have had a dead child, we know there was a tragedy in his life. Less likely because Ford didn't explicitly say that when explaining life to Bernard. Secondly, and more importantly, the place you took that screenshot from is not where Dolores and Bernardold talk about the Maze. We have almost certainly been seeing multiple points in Bernardold's timeline.  Present day Bernard probably does not know the same things about the Maze that Arnold did, and that's still most likely Arnold telling Dolores to go to the Maze.
    BINGO!
    That's the answer I wanted.
    Here's the answer to your "answer"(question) though. 
    Let me quote Dr Ford or even Elsie: "Every host has a backstory"
    image

  • He's just a memory in the timeline that's occurring in....
    The Hand
  • He's just a memory in the timeline that's occurring in....

    Exactly.
    And what are memories for hosts?
    They are programmed as we saw in Bernard's "memories"
  • He's just a memory in the timeline that's occurring in....

    Exactly.
    And what are memories for hosts?
    They are programmed as we saw in Bernard's "memories"
    Only partially. They are a mixture of experiences and what has been given to them.
  • KingKobra said:

    He's just a memory in the timeline that's occurring in....

    Exactly.
    And what are memories for hosts?
    They are programmed as we saw in Bernard's "memories"
    Only partially. They are a mixture of experiences and what has been given to them.
    Yes!
    But narratives are "memories" to give them a sense of "reality".
    Experiences are "loops" which hosts think are dreams.
    In Dolores flashbacks, we never saw Arnold.
    We just saw a guy who looks like Arnold with the same narrative as Bernard regarding his dying son.


    Heck, now that I think about it, It's a little odd that Ford takes out Stubbs, HEAD of Security, a day before all hell breaks loose inside.
    A little hint is that Bernard's memory seems to indicate that Elsie is dead and her tablet is now somewhere where there is no signal at all.

    It's a clear indication that these "hosts" are NOT becoming sentient. Instead, the "Reveries" are making them have a new narrative.

     
    Elisa
  • edited December 2016
    I don't agree with your narrative/loop statements. not everything needs to fit into a narrative and loop (in the sense that the show uses them).

    Narratives are the overall story of a host's life. The loop within said narrative are the decisions and experiences a host can/does make. These loops allow variance within a Hosts story. They also have shared endings in most cases (Dolores only has 3 different endings I believe).

    Narratives aren't the "memories" because they can't be a memory until they have happened. They just give the host a "defined" path(s) to follow.

    The loops with said narrative while they do contain experiences, are not considered "dreams". This is because loops can change from one moment to the next depending on the surrounding environmental changes.

    This of course is just my humble opinion.
    jafo
  • It's highly suggestive that it really is Arnold, because present day Bernard doesn't particularly seem to know much about the maze or awakening robots when we know it has actually happened many times in the past.

    And I agree with you, even off her ranch loop and rebelling, Dolores is on a loop. But I think we're seeing the origin of the Dolores rebellion loop with William, or close to it. Probably Teddy takes William's place in Dolores's loop after that time.

    KingKobra said:

    He's just a memory in the timeline that's occurring in....

    Exactly.
    And what are memories for hosts?
    They are programmed as we saw in Bernard's "memories"
    Only partially. They are a mixture of experiences and what has been given to them.
    Yes!
    But narratives are "memories" to give them a sense of "reality".
    Experiences are "loops" which hosts think are dreams.
    In Dolores flashbacks, we never saw Arnold.
    We just saw a guy who looks like Arnold with the same narrative as Bernard regarding his dying son.


    Heck, now that I think about it, It's a little odd that Ford takes out Stubbs, HEAD of Security, a day before all hell breaks loose inside.
    A little hint is that Bernard's memory seems to indicate that Elsie is dead and her tablet is now somewhere where there is no signal at all.

    It's a clear indication that these "hosts" are NOT becoming sentient. Instead, the "Reveries" are making them have a new narrative.

     
  • I think it's both true that Arnold had a son that he lost and BernArnold has the memory of his lost son as a cornerstone of his story.

    I think we know what the maze is... at least the one for bots. Dolores showed us what happened when she finished the maze.

    The MIB story might be fabricated and the existence of a maze is simply a device for him to have a unique experience.

    To me, the big questions are who (and why) is Wyatt. What happened 34 and 30 years ago? What will happen to MIB/William and Dolores in present day? How does this tie in to Maeve's search for freedom. How and why did Arnold die? How will Ford counteract Charlotte and the Board?

    There's lots to wrap up on Sunday.
  • Wyatt is probably a Mcguffen, at least for now I dont think he exists, he might be being created in Fords basement laboratory.  But He was implanted into Teddys memory to pull Teddy away from Dolores.  Ford says that Teddys purpose before Wyatt was to make sure Dolores stayed on the farm, they didnt even give him back story originally, they left it vague on purpose.  Without Teddy to keep her on her farm loop Dolores went into another loop, possibly her original Arnold loop.  The same day that Teddy goes after Wyatt, Dolores shoots the milk bandit and goes running off, only to literally fall into Williams arms.  The maze is probably figurative, more of a journey not a destination, every Hosts maze is probably different, a set of tests and experiences that at the end could lead to true conscience.  Maeve is probably on her own maze journey, except I think Ford is aware of what shes doing, he mat plan to use her and her Host army for his war he is about to have with the Board.
  • "The same day that Teddy goes after Wyatt, Dolores shoots the milk bandit and goes running off, only to literally fall into Williams arms.  "

    No, William is decades ago.  Teddy goes after Wyatt near the present day.

    Wyatt also may be the new name for a character from the past, like Arnold leading a robot revolt or a woke Dolores.  Wyatt may be Maeve in this new narrative of Ford's, she has all the abilities required.  
  • ugh... that is the trigger that made her remember her original loop...the maze
  • "The same day that Teddy goes after Wyatt, Dolores shoots the milk bandit and goes running off, only to literally fall into Williams arms.  "


    No, William is decades ago.  Teddy goes after Wyatt near the present day.

    Wyatt also may be the new name for a character from the past, like Arnold leading a robot revolt or a woke Dolores.  Wyatt may be Maeve in this new narrative of Ford's, she has all the abilities required.  
    After Teddy leaves her that day she goes back to farm alone, she gets pulled into the barn by the bandit and then glitches between time periods.  Which is when she goes out on her own to follow the same exact path she did when she went and found William. 2 times=same loop
  • KingKobra said:

    I don't agree with your narrative/loop statements. not everything needs to fit into a narrative and loop (in the sense that the show uses them).

    Narratives are the overall story of a host's life. The loop within said narrative are the decisions and experiences a host can/does make. These loops allow variance within a Hosts story. They also have shared endings in most cases (Dolores only has 3 different endings I believe).

    Narratives aren't the "memories" because they can't be a memory until they have happened. They just give the host a "defined" path(s) to follow.

    The loops with said narrative while they do contain experiences, are not considered "dreams". This is because loops can change from one moment to the next depending on the surrounding environmental changes.

    This of course is just my humble opinion.

    I see! but, why are Teddy's memories fake?
    We never knew what actually happened until Angela popped into Teddy.
    Unless, everything is a plain narrative where if we are looking at westworld from ANY host's point of view, it is not entirely true but distorted. 
    We can ONLY see what exactly is going on from a Human's perspective.
    MiB
    William
    Logan
    Ford(?)
    Sizemore(?)
    Elsie(?)

    As far as we know, part of the narrative we are seeing to be true is from William and Logan's perspective.

  • KingKobra said:

    I don't agree with your narrative/loop statements. not everything needs to fit into a narrative and loop (in the sense that the show uses them).

    Narratives are the overall story of a host's life. The loop within said narrative are the decisions and experiences a host can/does make. These loops allow variance within a Hosts story. They also have shared endings in most cases (Dolores only has 3 different endings I believe).

    Narratives aren't the "memories" because they can't be a memory until they have happened. They just give the host a "defined" path(s) to follow.

    The loops with said narrative while they do contain experiences, are not considered "dreams". This is because loops can change from one moment to the next depending on the surrounding environmental changes.

    This of course is just my humble opinion.

    I see! but, why are Teddy's memories fake?
    We never knew what actually happened until Angela popped into Teddy.
    Unless, everything is a plain narrative where if we are looking at westworld from ANY host's point of view, it is not entirely true but distorted. 
    We can ONLY see what exactly is going on from a Human's perspective.
    MiB
    William
    Logan
    Ford(?)
    Sizemore(?)
    Elsie(?)

    As far as we know, part of the narrative we are seeing to be true is from William and Logan's perspective.

    I'm not sure why you think it's "false". It was a "true" memeory until it was "corrected". Think of it like a protection mechanism. Teddy was remembering it the way he did to protect himself. It's much like a human would do in some cases.

    Humans can distort reality as well, so your theory doesn't really fit ;) we always have to assume what we are seeing is true, until proven otherwise.
  • "hey, hey ..you member Wyatt?"
    "yeeah...I member Wyatt"

    "memmmber Arnorld?"
    "yeah, yeah!..I member Arnold"

    "member William?"
    "ohh yeah..I member the MIB"

    God damn it, Ford is just feeding them member berries

  • KingKobra said:

    KingKobra said:

    I don't agree with your narrative/loop statements. not everything needs to fit into a narrative and loop (in the sense that the show uses them).

    Narratives are the overall story of a host's life. The loop within said narrative are the decisions and experiences a host can/does make. These loops allow variance within a Hosts story. They also have shared endings in most cases (Dolores only has 3 different endings I believe).

    Narratives aren't the "memories" because they can't be a memory until they have happened. They just give the host a "defined" path(s) to follow.

    The loops with said narrative while they do contain experiences, are not considered "dreams". This is because loops can change from one moment to the next depending on the surrounding environmental changes.

    This of course is just my humble opinion.

    I see! but, why are Teddy's memories fake?
    We never knew what actually happened until Angela popped into Teddy.
    Unless, everything is a plain narrative where if we are looking at westworld from ANY host's point of view, it is not entirely true but distorted. 
    We can ONLY see what exactly is going on from a Human's perspective.
    MiB
    William
    Logan
    Ford(?)
    Sizemore(?)
    Elsie(?)

    As far as we know, part of the narrative we are seeing to be true is from William and Logan's perspective.

    I'm not sure why you think it's "false". It was a "true" memeory until it was "corrected". Think of it like a protection mechanism. Teddy was remembering it the way he did to protect himself. It's much like a human would do in some cases.

    Humans can distort reality as well, so your theory doesn't really fit ;) we always have to assume what we are seeing is true, until proven otherwise.
    That makes no sense.
    The memory isn't to protect Teddy. It's a narrative he was given by Ford in present day, hence the "fake memory".
    The new narrative is the new "memory".

    That's why I said that if we want to know what really happens in Westworld should be from a human's point of view or memory since it isn't distorted in any way, shape or form for the sake of a park's narrative.

    We can even see that in other hosts such as Dolores, Maeve, Milk guy from episode 1, Lawrence, etc.
    This is Ford's masterplan, afterall. He said it in a previous episode, he only wants to write narratives. Westworld is his narrative. The way we see Westworld as of now is from a narrative's point of view. It's what Ford wants us to see. 
    But if we look at things from William's or Logan's point of view, we might see something different. We might see what's really happening in Westworld.
  • Well, I was partially right hahahaha
    Still, great ending
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