The Jehovah's Witness podcast

A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
Sheesh, two hours of this thing.  I tried to get to everybody's questions or comments.  Consider this thread open for discussion!
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Comments

  • edited February 8
    A little hypothetical for Jim/A.Ron.  The temporary Muslim-ban outraged America, which is a little surprising considering the stigmas attached to the religion.  Say Trump places a temporary JW-ban.  Given the stigmas around the JW's, are you guys philosophically outraged or are sipping a Lipton ice tea like Kermit?
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I'm fine with governments taking action against harmful cults. Now, the trick is, defining 'harmful cults', haha.  I'd be fine with them dismantling the Jehovah's Witnesses, but that's because I have first hand accurate knowledge about how harmful and exploitative they are.  It's like the question of "is Batman a good idea?"  As presented, absolutely.  In the real world?  Not so much.

    I think organizations that hide behind confessional privilege to hide child predators or deny medical treatment to minors, are pretty bright white lines that could be used to  crack down on "religion".  Excommunication is more and more seen as a violation of basic human rights.  I'd be all for cracking down on that, too.  For example; http://fecris.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/UNADFI-Jehovas-Witnesses.pdf

    Step one would be a government led suit against religions that violate these principals.  After being punished, if they refuse to change, step two would be a loss of tax-free status.  Step three would be some form of ban.  I dunno, wish there were more people could do, because man is it a bitch to get out of if you ever find yourself in one.
  • How many Jehovahs have you guys witnessed ?
    voodoorat
  • voodooratvoodoorat Atlanta
    edited February 7
    if the jw cult didn't exist do you think the people and families who are jw's would just be scientologists or some similar or different cult?  i guess what i'm asking is do you think there's something that makes people susceptible to cult membership and if so does it matter much which specific cult and their belief system or is it something appealing about the whole smaller and tighter and more insular in-group vs. out-group distinction and the beliefs are secondary?  or do you think it's more like every cult is different and anybody can be susceptible to them in the right situation?

    i guess if i turn that around, i was raised catholic and if catholicism suddenly ceased to exist the people who were catholic would i think find something comfortingly similar about like anglican/episcopalian/orthodox church because the mass, rituals, priesthood (mostly) etc are similar even if the church political structure and even some core dogmatic stuff is different.  that is i think they are similar enough that one would translate pretty easily to another, i wonder if that is true of (some?) cults too.
    Doctor_Nick
  • @voodoorat Humans will "always" try to find answers to the unexplained. Take away one faith and another will take its place (all things being the same). Take a look at Westworld where we saw glimpses of this very thing....the idea of "God(s)" is so old that I think it's hard to def taking over for abc becomes sometimes def come from abc. I think some/many of the JW (IMO from my memorable interactions) don't fall in for the cult, but the belief system and or people involved. A good leader can often make faith much easier. IMO there are enough similar branches of Christianity belief wise that would be the "new JW". Questions like this are always fun to discuss, but good luck finding definitive answers (because there are so many variations on the "why" someone follows a particular faith).
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    I was raised Catholic too, and some Catholics go an entirely different direction where they seek out a variety of different types of religion, from high Protestant to low Protestant to Buddhism or whatever. I think a big factor though is whether you chose a certain faith or whether your parents chose it for you.
  • anyway this can be added to baldmove tv or the premium bald movies stream (if it is for members only) so I can downlod it on my shitty iphone?
  • davemcbdavemcb Melbourne
    Thanks for opening up guys it seem like you have overcome a hell of a lot and not having some of these experiences personally I don't know if I could handle my family disowning me. Congrats on making those breakthroughs and getting to where you are now. 

    We also have another entry for the Crazy JW mother Olympics from one of our many reality TV shows that I don't watch 

  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    sbench2 said:

    anyway this can be added to baldmove tv or the premium bald movies stream (if it is for members only) so I can downlod it on my shitty iphone?

    It's in either firehose feed, either premium or free.
  • JoshuaHeterJoshuaHeter Omaha, NE
    edited February 8
    Thanks to both of you for opening up and sharing your stories.

    On contentious matters such as faith, I think you both do a commendable job of presenting and defending your view(s) in a thoughtful, respectful manner.

    In the America of 2017, that's something we can all appreciate.
    robotk
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    voodoorat said:

    if the jw cult didn't exist do you think the people and families who are jw's would just be scientologists or some similar or different cult?  i guess what i'm asking is do you think there's something that makes people susceptible to cult membership and if so does it matter much which specific cult and their belief system or is it something appealing about the whole smaller and tighter and more insular in-group vs. out-group distinction and the beliefs are secondary?  or do you think it's more like every cult is different and anybody can be susceptible to them in the right situation?


    i guess if i turn that around, i was raised catholic and if catholicism suddenly ceased to exist the people who were catholic would i think find something comfortingly similar about like anglican/episcopalian/orthodox church because the mass, rituals, priesthood (mostly) etc are similar even if the church political structure and even some core dogmatic stuff is different.  that is i think they are similar enough that one would translate pretty easily to another, i wonder if that is true of (some?) cults too.
    Nah. Cults exploit well known psychological tricks to snare people. My mom became a Jehovah's Witness while in the depths of clinical depression over her grandmother's death. If she'd received better mental care or if the JW lady's timing had been off six months either way this all never would have happened and my life would be radically different. It's true that some people are probably more likely to join a cult, but those aspects of their personality would also be attracted to conventional religions and other non harmful types of association and fellowship.

    This is why raising awareness of cults is so important. Just making people aware that hey, this is a cult knocking on your door, considerably increases their mental armor against it.

    There is a recent thread on here talking about the importance of educational your elderly parents about scams so they aren't taken advantage of. It wouldn't be correct to say that old people just are suckers for scams, and you shut one down they'll just fall for another. They're just exploiting people people's natural trust and need for connection and purpose. They prey on the lonely, the ignorant, and the bored. Cults operate on similar principles. The other thing is that not all cults are religious. I'd argue that Amway is a cult. I'd argue that some political parties are cults (think North Korea or Stalin era Soviet, but also, domestically, eternal vigilance!), and these snare people who might have no use for religion.
    voodooratKingKobra
  • Difference between a religion and a cult - in a cult their is a strong central leader who knows it is all BS and is leading it for their own gain, in a religion, that person is dead. Quote from Joe Rogan podcast quoting someone else I believe.
  • This podcast was so interesting to listen to. I listen to all your stuff but this stood out.
    akritenbrinkrobotk
  • sbench2 said:

    anyway this can be added to baldmove tv or the premium bald movies stream (if it is for members only) so I can downlod it on my shitty iphone?

    It's in either firehose feed, either premium or free.
    @A_Ron_Hubbard I don't see it in my premium firehose feed. What day was it released? The three latest released in my feed are 2/7 The Young Pope 107 & 108, 2/6 Hell or High Water, and 1/31 Young Pope 105 & 106.
  • ghm3 said:

    sbench2 said:

    anyway this can be added to baldmove tv or the premium bald movies stream (if it is for members only) so I can downlod it on my shitty iphone?

    It's in either firehose feed, either premium or free.
    @A_Ron_Hubbard I don't see it in my premium firehose feed. What day was it released? The three latest released in my feed are 2/7 The Young Pope 107 & 108, 2/6 Hell or High Water, and 1/31 Young Pope 105 & 106.
    It came through on my premium feed (iTunes) marked as a Tuesday release. (Same as young pope 107&108).
    ghm3
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    To anyone who thinks all religions are cults.

    We stopped going to a non denominational Christian church down the road and they sent a postcard hoping we were well. I have seen the pastor and shot the shit with him in the Kroger line.

    A group of my only outside contact with the world didn't suddenly stop talking to me or start staking me. That's the difference between a cult and normal religion.
    A_Ron_HubbardJoshuaHeter
  • edited February 8
    @KingKobra Weird, I definitely don't have it in my PocketCasts stream. Every so often I'd have issues with premium streams stopping in PocketCasts but I haven't had any issues in months, and if TYP 107  & 108 was released the same day I can't think of why I would get it but not this.
  • @ghm3 yeah, it is odd for sure, maybe try to "redo" the entry to try to pull the new ones down? The only ones I've had issues with are LWJ&A and it seems that it's an ITunes related issue.


  • I don't think I could deal with people being overly involved with the everyday things I do in life. This "community" seems more like tarp while I'm swimming than a warm blanket while I'm sleeping. The people at the church I used to go to would disagree with the things I did, but I wouldn't have been shunned. 
  • Just want to say thank you fellas for the podcast. Brought back good and bad memories of my time with the JW.

    The one thing that wasn't touched on was the old racial divide. Back in the 80's (not sure of when things changed) interracial couples were frowned upon. This was a major reason my mother left my father after joining the JWs. From my admittedly bad memory I also don't remember seeing any couples "mixed" up until the time I left at 13 (90's). The races were "keep to your own" even though all were welcome. To say growing up as an interracial child was difficult, would be an understatement, but that is a story for a different time. Most of the time I was a JW it was as part of a congregation in "small town" CT. So as you can guess it was mostly a white fellowship. I wasn't really exposed to Brothers/Sisters of color for a long time. While welcoming, it was for sure a "different" upbringing. I will say though, that my mother always supported me. She was the one who asked if I still wanted to be a witness and supported me when I said no. While she didn't go to meetings, she still held onto MANY of the beliefs of the JW up until the time of her death. She was undergoing cancer treatment and refused a blood transfusion up until there was no other option (it was death or transfusion). During her last days/weeks she would comment on seeing a "blue light" when asked what was in the light "Jehovah". Even though she still held these strong beliefs she would allow "non Christmas presents". She also bought me birthday gifts and allowed me to have my 1st birthday party when I decided to leave (I hadn't had one since she/us joined). This would be in stark contrast to what should have been done. I did have a few checkups from people from our old congregation, They stopped coming after a few visits. Of course the couple across as the street were witnesses as well so they could have "spied" easily.

    TL;DR As with any religion there are people within that may bend the rules for loved ones.
    jazzminawa
  • Sorry if I just missed it @A_Ron_Hubbard , but just curious how your dad fit into all this since you seem to still have a relationship with him. Was he ever a JW or was it just your mother that converted?

    Also curious how those major medical decisions for kids get handled when both parents aren't JW and on the same page. Is there a medical directive in the custody arrangement to avoid any conflict in the event an emergency arises?

  • strangely, i don't see it on the (ad-free) firehose feed via the pocketcasts ios app, but i *do* see it on the pocketcasts web app.  are the timestamps the same on it and the other 2/7 one (the young pope 7/8) or something?
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    Hey guys, thanks for answering my questions. I wasn't thinking of it so much in terms of "bias" because that seems pejorative, but we all have a perspective that is informed by our upbringing and it was interesting to hear the rest of the answer. I think sometimes when you make an extreme worldview transition like that, it actually gives you not a bias but kind of the opposite, like an extra level of perspective.

    Also... interesting that @A_Ron_Hubbard and @Jim became friends again through internet stalking. LOL

    I could ask or say so many things, but one thing that struck me the most was when a listener asked what you found outside JW that surprised you and @Jim said college! Wow! I think you would have been in my type of group in high school "nerdy types" where of COURSE we were all expected to go to college. I have my own issues with my own higher education, including having an expectation of going but no money to do so, and higher education is not the be-all and end-all that some people think it is. But just not having the opportunity to go at all would be very discouraging because it affects so many things, including earning potential and just having a use for the analytical brains you were born with. Jim said he ended up going to community college, @A_Ron_Hubbard did you ever go to college at all? 

    Speaking as someone who was raised by more moderate people in a more mainstream religion (Catholic), when I was a kid I always felt like they were force feeding my brain with nonsense (I basically had the same response as Jim where I was like "where's the evidence?" and it never jived well with me). But as an adult when I hear stories like this I feel lucky yet again that my parents were more or less reasonable. We definitely had our arguments, and as a teenager, I felt like it was a big deal but looking back, it became obvious to them that I wasn't going to practice religion any more they didn't make a big deal about it any more. My mother doesn't believe in fighting a losing battle, and my dad was more or less "off duty" after I got out of high school haha. (he still would show up to help fix a flat though haha)

    Thanks for sharing this; it's probably an emotional or draining topic on some level and it was interesting to listen to it.
  • ghm3 said:

    @KingKobra Weird, I definitely don't have it in my PocketCasts stream. Every so often I'd have issues with premium streams stopping in PocketCasts but I haven't had any issues in months, and if TYP 107  & 108 was released the same day I can't think of why I would get it but not this.

    Yeah, I don't have it either, but I don't have the Young Pope either.  Last I have is  Hell or High Water.  
  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA


    Thanks for sharing this; it's probably an emotional or draining topic on some level and it was interesting to listen to it.
    I was thinking this same thing. Did you guys just go straight back to your houses and curl into a fetal position and not want to talk for the rest of the day? It sounded incredibly tiring to discuss--while very interesting--I couldn't help but think how exhausted you both were after finishing. 
    akritenbrinkelgat0Melonusk
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited February 9
    Considering you lost your mother to cancer, and the lack of blood transfusions may have been a factor to her suffering, please forgive my curiosity if this question is inappropriate...I have always heard about JW denying blood transfusions and the guys went into the particulars of what is allowed, but didn't really explain the why. Does it come from a belief that when it's your time you should not interfere with Jehovah's plan?

  • edited February 9
    @voodoorat Weird, just checked the Pocketcasts web app with the same result, I see it there on the web app but not in the IOS app.

    @Doctor_Nick Strange. Also with Pocketcasts? IOS or Android? Do you have the web app to check the stream from? 
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    ghm3 said:

    @voodoorat Weird, just checked the Pocketcasts web app with the same result, I see it there on the web app but not in the IOS PC app.


    @Doctor_Nick Strange. Also with Pocketcasts? IOS or Android? Do you have the web app to check the stream from? 
    I use Downcast and it's there for me, I downloaded it yesterday and listened to it.
  • Yeah I have iOS pocketcasts but no web app. Will probably be a bear to figure out because I transitioned from Overcast a month or two ago and the feed just continued working so I didn't mess with it.
  • aberry89 said:

    Considering you lost your mother to cancer, and the lack of blood transfusions may have been a factor to her suffering, please forgive my curiosity if this question is inappropriate...I have always heard about JW denying blood transfusions and the guys went into the particulars of what is allowed, but didn't really explain the why. Does it come from a belief that when it's your time you should not interfere with Jehovah's plan?


    No better way to explain it then straight from the horses mouth....
    https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jehovahs-witnesses-why-no-blood-transfusions/

    I can still remember carrying the no blood transfusion card in my wallet when young..
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