Rethinking mass incarceration

I just ran across this and found it interesting. It sounds convincing at first read and if nothing else is food for thought.
Cheers,
Alex M
KingKobraElisa

Comments

  • I would also say, that the ideas presented are good for those already committing crimes/have committed crimes, but really we should also be focusing on what leads people to those crimes. Funding education, activities for kids and adult education could majorly impact crime that less to incarceration. Really we are failing to educate and place those what have lost jobs or WILL lose jobs so that they can continue to be prosperous even if their particular job goes away.

    Decriminalization of drugs and bribing them under he control of the government/business etc may also help with the drug use/crime issues we have. Too often we have people locked up for either selling or using drugs, but never really getting "hope" for a better life after. So instead they go back to what they know and end up back in the system. If we start legalizing these drugs and make it "safer" for users it could cut down passed STDs or related deaths due to unsafe "mixing". We may also see an increase of tax revenue if done correctly.

    So while I do agree that mass incarceration is a MAJOR issue (as are the prisons for profit that has been booming), there will need to be major overhauls on multiple levels for us to see real impact. I really hope we do start to see some major changes, but I fear that those in power may not want to see these changes take place for various reasons.
    ElisaBrawnz74al
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    The article was interesting, but I guess I was expecting something radically different, but found the headline was a bit sensationalist.  This is a minor refinement of the causes of the out of control incarceration of the US, not a refutation of that, and even then, this is one guy saying "I have a slightly different idea", not "after a careful and long peer review, this is a definitive new way to look at this highly complex and politically charged idea."  

    Still, interesting read, and he may well be right.  Bottom line is we lock up too many people, and I guess where I differ with this guy is I think drugs should be legalized and drug addiction treated as a medical condition, which I do think would have a radical impact on incarceration.  He's also right, in that we've kept adding to the prosecutorial and law enforcement side as if we are fighting a all out and losing battle against violent crime (see too Trump's latest executive orders on law enforcement, he's targeting problems that don't exist), when we really are not.

    If we kept hiring a thousand dog catchers a year to combat out of control feral dogs, and we kept doing so after the feral dog population dramatically receded for a period of 40 years because of an effective spay and neuter program, how long would it take before dog catchers started catching dogs out in their yards?  How long until they'd burst into people's houses to target non-desirable breeds?  How many houses would have the wrong dog effectively stolen by mistake?  That all makes sense.
    KingKobraphoenyx1023HatorianElisaBrawn
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited February 11
    I agree drugs should be legalised. And if not they should only be fined. No one should go to jail for personal use of drugs. There are some valid reasons for incarceration with drugs. Drug dealing to minors, drug dealing deadly chemicals like Fentanyl. Etc. But I don't think we will see s major legslizatjon of drugs simply because the private prison economy would be destroyed if that happened. Money talks.
    ElisaBrawn
  • Define what you mean by a radical effect on incarceration.  If you accept this guy's numbers 20% of the entire US prison population is there for a drug related offense.  Let's say 25% of them are real violent and wouldn't be releasable, and you release the rest.   Is going to 85% of the incarcerated population a radical effect?  Because reform groups are talking about a 50% drop in population....

    Bottom line is we lock up too many people, and I guess where I differ with this guy is I think drugs should be legalized and drug addiction treated as a medical condition, which I do think would have a radical impact on incarceration. 


  • AjasAjas Seattle, WA
    edited February 11
    Oh great.  Terribly written political bullshit on Baldmove too.  

    I guess Twitter/Facebook/Google News/Everything else wasn't enough.
  • Ajas said:

    Oh great.  Terribly written political bullshit on Baldmove too.  

    I guess Twitter/Facebook/Google News/Everything else wasn't enough.
    No one made you click on this thread...it's like someone walking into the clearly labelled adult section of a video store and complaining about what they see...
  • Define what you mean by a radical effect on incarceration.  If you accept this guy's numbers 20% of the entire US prison population is there for a drug related offense.  Let's say 25% of them are real violent and wouldn't be releasable, and you release the rest.   Is going to 85% of the incarcerated population a radical effect?  Because reform groups are talking about a 50% drop in population....

    Bottom line is we lock up too many people, and I guess where I differ with this guy is I think drugs should be legalized and drug addiction treated as a medical condition, which I do think would have a radical impact on incarceration. 


    I would also add to how many are "drug related" (i.e. Crimes committed while ON said drugs or to get money for said drugs). Not to mention that there is a good deal of violent crimes that probably can be attributed to the selling of drugs (gangs, orginized crime, etc). The cascading effects of legalizing drugs could be "great". This is all theory however as the money behind the prison system is far greater than the leagalization/treatment system.
  • The problem with legalizing drugs is, how does that prevent people committing crimes while on drugs or to feed their drug habits? Also, will the legal drugs be cheaper than the illegal drugs?
    KingKobra said:

    Define what you mean by a radical effect on incarceration.  If you accept this guy's numbers 20% of the entire US prison population is there for a drug related offense.  Let's say 25% of them are real violent and wouldn't be releasable, and you release the rest.   Is going to 85% of the incarcerated population a radical effect?  Because reform groups are talking about a 50% drop in population....

    Bottom line is we lock up too many people, and I guess where I differ with this guy is I think drugs should be legalized and drug addiction treated as a medical condition, which I do think would have a radical impact on incarceration. 


    I would also add to how many are "drug related" (i.e. Crimes committed while ON said drugs or to get money for said drugs). Not to mention that there is a good deal of violent crimes that probably can be attributed to the selling of drugs (gangs, orginized crime, etc). The cascading effects of legalizing drugs could be "great". This is all theory however as the money behind the prison system is far greater than the leagalization/treatment system.

  • TaraC73TaraC73 Manchester NH
    *totally misread the subject and thought it said mass reincarnation*

    hisdudeness915
  • Yes, I would be interested in the specifics of what happens when the licensed heroin addict and their provider disagree on the amount of heroin that they should be taking?  Will the goal be to taper them down?  There's already a black market in methadone and suboxone.
  • The problem with legalizing drugs is, how does that prevent people committing crimes while on drugs or to feed their drug habits? Also, will the legal drugs be cheaper than the illegal drugs?

    KingKobra said:

    Define what you mean by a radical effect on incarceration.  If you accept this guy's numbers 20% of the entire US prison population is there for a drug related offense.  Let's say 25% of them are real violent and wouldn't be releasable, and you release the rest.   Is going to 85% of the incarcerated population a radical effect?  Because reform groups are talking about a 50% drop in population....

    Bottom line is we lock up too many people, and I guess where I differ with this guy is I think drugs should be legalized and drug addiction treated as a medical condition, which I do think would have a radical impact on incarceration. 


    I would also add to how many are "drug related" (i.e. Crimes committed while ON said drugs or to get money for said drugs). Not to mention that there is a good deal of violent crimes that probably can be attributed to the selling of drugs (gangs, orginized crime, etc). The cascading effects of legalizing drugs could be "great". This is all theory however as the money behind the prison system is far greater than the leagalization/treatment system.

    Crimes while in drugs, would still be crimes. However for those who would be considered "addicts" IMO it's better long term to treat the illness than just push it away. The so called war on drugs, IMO was/is a failure. Personally I think we need to revamp the way we treat these things (large part via treatment/leagalization). It's never going to be a quick process. As far as the price goes, I am not familiar with the production of drugs, so you are asking the wrong person ;)
    ElisaBrawn
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH

    Define what you mean by a radical effect on incarceration.  If you accept this guy's numbers 20% of the entire US prison population is there for a drug related offense.  Let's say 25% of them are real violent and wouldn't be releasable, and you release the rest.   Is going to 85% of the incarcerated population a radical effect?  Because reform groups are talking about a 50% drop in population....

    Bottom line is we lock up too many people, and I guess where I differ with this guy is I think drugs should be legalized and drug addiction treated as a medical condition, which I do think would have a radical impact on incarceration. 

    Well, they're stats, so you'd have to see what goes into "drug related" offenses? Depending on what they classify as a drug offense, it could be a much larger or even smaller part of the problem.  But if you accept those numbers at face value, you dropped the incarceration rate by 15%, that is still going to have a huge effect.  Not only in terms of families not being broken up and people living productive lives instead of rotting in jail, which rolls into the next generation and becomes a virtuous circle, but also in refocusing law enforcement on matters that we actually care about. Community policing, investigation and prosecution of political and corporate corruption, etc.  

    And that's not even talking about the effect ending the drug war would have on central and south america.


    KingKobra
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Ajas said:

    Oh great.  Terribly written political bullshit on Baldmove too.  

    I guess Twitter/Facebook/Google News/Everything else wasn't enough.
    Either engage with the topic with a positive contribution or move on.  Besides, nobody is talking about politics in this thread except for you.
    jazzminawaTaraC73hisdudeness915Dee
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