302 - Witness

2

Comments

  • Melia004 said:

    If Jimmy really ends up having ran right into a confession, that would seem like such a cheap move for the show. He knows Chuck is out to get him but he still so sloppily admits his guilt out loud AGAIN? He has to be playing an angle, or we have to believe he just forgets common sense due to Chuck, and that would definitely seem odd for season 3 Jimmy...

    Agreed.  The only thing Gilligan forgot to write in was Hamlin's excitement to show Chuck his new video recorder which he had just turned on.
  • The hand off in Las Pollos was really well done, took me 3 watches to see it :-)
    manhattnik
  • MichelleMichelle California
    Chuck has now become one of the biggest villains on tv, in my opinion. What a grade A douche he was to so heartlessly carry on this vendetta. He sees how much he has hurt Jimmy and still doesn't give a crap. I don't think I could turn my back on my family and stonewall them the way he did. What a f'ing a-hole.
  • Luke said:

    I also find the Mike/Gus stuff to be moving a bit too slowly. I really feel like Vince has kind of crawled up his own ass with how clever they think they are slowly revealing how Mike meets Gus. Having Gus in all the promos kind of ruins the suspense imo.

    I mean hell did we really need that overly dramatic scene in the desert? We all know Mike doesn't get killed and ends up working for Gus. And we all know that Gus doesn't mind talking business in his restaurant since he did so with Walt. They might as well have just had Gus get into Mikes car or have the inevitable meeting happen at the restaurant.

    Chuck is a piece of shit, at this rate I really hope something bad happens to him. Unfortunately when Chuck get what's coming to him it will likely mean Kim gets burned too.

    I still think Jimmy has a trump card in that Chuck clearly is still holding on to his delusions of electrical allergies. He could send Chuck into an episode, commit him to a mental ward, and bankrupt HHM. Hell if he does this he gets rid of Chuck and can then blackmail Howard and the PI who is hired by Howard to not testify against him.

    How can it be moving slowly when it's only been a couple of episodes? While those of us who've watched BB know the outcome, this show had to play dual roles (one for those that have watched and another for those that haven't). If you rush to get to the good stuff, you leave a lot of the nuance out that makes this show special. I get WHY people are antsy, but for me, the attention to detail often pays off. This show IMO (same as BB) was never about a quick payoff to big events.

    For me I really enjoyed the episode, I think pacing is crucial and thus far they have been doing "just enough". Seeing Mike work to prove that he was "burned" after Jimmy did his stakeout was great. I'm not so sure I agree it was out of character for Jimmy to act the way he did. It's one thing to plan out and execute your own con, a totally different thing to go in blind (something he doesn't do well with).
  • @Jim and @A_Ron_Hubbard Chick-fil-A most definitely does have breakfast, and it's delicious. You need to go get yourself a chicken biscuit.
    Melia004elgat0
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England
    edited April 2017
    The final set piece of the episode was painful to watch! Jimmy storming in when the audience knew full well what he was getting in to. It's a different genre to deal with obviously, but the show makers are clearly favouring the Hitchcockian value of suspense being better than surprise. First the openness about Fring's return, and then that set up at the end was a perfect example.
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    I'm finding the Mike stuff really boring. I just don't care to watch him sit there and eat nuts for ten minutes or take a car apart or whatever. I'm probably missing major things because I either fast forward or play with my phone when he's on screen.
  • MichelleMichelle California
    MrX said:

    @Jim and @A_Ron_Hubbard Chick-fil-A most definitely does have breakfast, and it's delicious. You need to go get yourself a chicken biscuit.

    Their politics, beliefs, and actions are so far right of what I believe to be fair and just, so I will never be eating there.  In my opinion, Wendy's does a great chicken sandwich and it doesn't come with a side of bigotry.
    amyja89johnnyhandsDemicKela15Melia004gguenotUnderwoodApril_May_Junemanhattnik
  • I don't see Jimmy as acting out of character at the end, at all. Chuck has always been a blind spot for him because he desperately wants to have a good relationship with his brother, despite everything. When he realises he's been betrayed again, he's too furious to think clearly. Jimmy isn't some cool logic machine like Gus. He acts rashly all the time.
  • I'm disappointed with Jimmy on 2 fronts.  1) From his days as Slippin' Jimmy, you'd have to figure that he could play the role that Mike wanted him to play without being obvious.  2)  Also annoyed that Jimmy didn't possibly think through what Chuck was trying to do with him.  Feels like something Jimmy could have figured out before he broke down the door (although, didn't Jimmy have a key?  If so, when did Chuck take that away from him?).  Although, I get it was an emotional reaction/decision. 

    Also, I'm surprised at how cautious Mike is that he just let Jimmy come out of the restaurant and jump into his car.  You'd figure Mike would have given Jimmy a burner phone (and Mike also have a burner) and told him to drive off and then call him and discuss what he saw then.  Also, as someone pointed out, when you really think of the Mike storyline, there is no real suspense since we know what happens with him because of Breaking Bad.  That being said, I'm still enjoying his storyline.

  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited April 2017

    Also, I'm surprised at how cautious Mike is that he just let Jimmy come out of the restaurant and jump into his car.  You'd figure Mike would have given Jimmy a burner phone (and Mike also have a burner) and told him to drive off and then call him and discuss what he saw then.  Also, as someone pointed out, when you really think of the Mike storyline, there is no real suspense since we know what happens with him because of Breaking Bad.  That being said, I'm still enjoying his storyline.

    Yeah, I'm sorry, Mike turns into a sloppy amateur.  He drives his own car around Los Pollos, only eventually swapping it out and then does business with Jimmy in the cul de sac right across the street.
  • LukeLuke Central Illinois
    @KingKobra I was talking about the slow pan to the sign. The more than 60 second blurry reveal of Gus in the background when Jimmy was in the restaurant. The very long scenes with Mike just sitting surveillance. Like some of that is ok, but I feel like all of it when we damn well know where this ends was a little over indulgent. I'm not saying I hate it, but by the last Mike scene I felt it made it fall kind of flat because it was like the fifth time they had done basically that same scene in the episode.
  • edited April 2017
    I don't have any solid evidence for this, but I assumed that Gus was suspicious of Jimmy, and therefore didn't follow through with the pick up. He probably has some signal that he gave the runner that signalled the drop was off.

    Jim and A. Ron think that Gus swept up the drugs, but I think that is a bit clumsy, especially when considering how tight of a ship Gus runs. 

    Like, this runner is really just gonna leave packages of drugs and/or money on the floor, in plain sight of people sitting in the restaurant?

    This would also explain why Gus approached Jimmy right after he was done sweeping.
  • Melia004 said:

    If Jimmy really ends up having ran right into a confession, that would seem like such a cheap move for the show. He knows Chuck is out to get him but he still so sloppily admits his guilt out loud AGAIN? He has to be playing an angle, or we have to believe he just forgets common sense due to Chuck, and that would definitely seem odd for season 3 Jimmy...

    Maybe Jimmy isn't as "Slippin'" with regards to Chuck because it’s his older brother and there's a lot of family history and emotions there.  I'm still thinking that Jimmy has a lot of leverage over Chuck with the committal option (he's got that woman doctor advising him to do it!).  


    With that in mind, I'm thinking that the crimes Chuck has Jimmy nailed on will never make it to a court room as others on this blog have already opined (HHM’s reputation will suffer, Mesa Verde will find out everything.)  In the unlikely scenario where Chuck does testify in court in this case, I predict Jimmy will do something to make Chuck have an EMS attack in court, and that will cause problems for Chuck and the prosecution.

  • I didn't think that Chuck believed Jimmy would break in at night because that is what Chuck would do, I think it was because that's what he thought Jimmy would do. I don't think Chuck considered that Jimmy would be overly distraught when he found out, but would go straight "Slippin Jimmy" mode and do something that he didn't think he would get himself caught. I think it's sad that Chuck still doesn't understand how much Jimmy cares about him. 
  • I don't have any solid evidence for this, but I assumed that Gus was suspicious of Jimmy, and therefore didn't follow through with the pick up. He probably has some signal that he gave the runner that signalled the drop was off.


    Jim and A. Ron think that Gus swept up the drugs, but I think that is a bit clumsy, especially when considering how tight of a ship Gus runs. 

    Like, this runner is really just gonna leave packages of drugs and/or money on the floor, in plain sight of people sitting in the restaurant?

    This would also explain why Gus approached Jimmy right after he was done sweeping.
    I think Gus reviews the restaurants surveillance video as a matter of habit with every Victor visit, and with what happened with Jimmy he would definitely review it - to see how Jimmy moved nearer to Victor.   There's also the possibility that Victor coming into the restaurant with the backpack doesn't even mean that's how they do the drop-off - it might be just a signal, maybe if he has his backpack on the floor it means one thing, on the seat next to him another.
  • What if the reason Jimmy changes his name is not because the name Jimmy McGill is tainted, but because Chuck's name is tainted? If Jimmy is arrested and this thing goes to trial, the one thing about that case that would grab headlines is high powered attorney who had fake disease. No one would care about a breaking and entering. But once it becomes public that one of the lead lawyers at the top law firm is crazy, the name mcgill would be toxic. Not to mention that every single hhm client who lost a case would be suing for malpractice.
    johnnyhandsJoshuaHeterMelonusk
  • What if the reason Jimmy changes his name is not because the name Jimmy McGill is tainted, but because Chuck's name is tainted? If Jimmy is arrested and this thing goes to trial, the one thing about that case that would grab headlines is high powered attorney who had fake disease. No one would care about a breaking and entering. But once it becomes public that one of the lead lawyers at the top law firm is crazy, the name mcgill would be toxic. Not to mention that every single hhm client who lost a case would be suing for malpractice.

    On the Insider Cast, Peter seemed to imply (if not outright say) that he thinks that what finally pushes Jimmy into taking on the Saul persona will surprise a lot of us. So, I think this (or something close to it) is absolutely on the table.
  • What if the reason Jimmy changes his name is not because the name Jimmy McGill is tainted, but because Chuck's name is tainted? If Jimmy is arrested and this thing goes to trial, the one thing about that case that would grab headlines is high powered attorney who had fake disease. No one would care about a breaking and entering. But once it becomes public that one of the lead lawyers at the top law firm is crazy, the name mcgill would be toxic. Not to mention that every single hhm client who lost a case would be suing for malpractice.

    The toxic McGill name dovetails with the idea that Hamlin & Wexler start their own firm (also to escape the bad rep of McGill.)
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA

    If the Jimmy case goes to court, how will Mesa Verde not know about the 1261 to 1216 stuff?  Does this mean Kim gets screwed as a side effect?

    Michelle said:

    MrX said:

    @Jim and @A_Ron_Hubbard Chick-fil-A most definitely does have breakfast, and it's delicious. You need to go get yourself a chicken biscuit.

    Their politics, beliefs, and actions are so far right of what I believe to be fair and just, so I will never be eating there.  In my opinion, Wendy's does a great chicken sandwich and it doesn't come with a side of bigotry.
    Bigotry? Their president, an old man from the south, once donated money to a single campaign race on the gay marriage issue, nobody to date has shown Chick fil-A as a company has treated anybody with disrespect as a customer or employee. that is simply a slur. 
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    Melia004 said:

    If Jimmy really ends up having ran right into a confession, that would seem like such a cheap move for the show. He knows Chuck is out to get him but he still so sloppily admits his guilt out loud AGAIN? He has to be playing an angle, or we have to believe he just forgets common sense due to Chuck, and that would definitely seem odd for season 3 Jimmy...

    I don't think anything he said in the final scene is a confession of wrong doing in the Mesa Verde switch up, I think he can still play the "he was trying to help Chuck through his mental illness episode" on that. the real problem is the kicking in the door of chuck's house and threatening him, at least in Washington he's doing a minimum one year in prison for that, and I don't see how he can talk his way out of that. 
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    edited April 2017

    Melia004 said:

    If Jimmy really ends up having ran right into a confession, that would seem like such a cheap move for the show. He knows Chuck is out to get him but he still so sloppily admits his guilt out loud AGAIN? He has to be playing an angle, or we have to believe he just forgets common sense due to Chuck, and that would definitely seem odd for season 3 Jimmy...

    Maybe Jimmy isn't as "Slippin'" with regards to Chuck because it’s his older brother and there's a lot of family history and emotions there.  I'm still thinking that Jimmy has a lot of leverage over Chuck with the committal option (he's got that woman doctor advising him to do it!).  


    With that in mind, I'm thinking that the crimes Chuck has Jimmy nailed on will never make it to a court room as others on this blog have already opined (HHM’s reputation will suffer, Mesa Verde will find out everything.)  In the unlikely scenario where Chuck does testify in court in this case, I predict Jimmy will do something to make Chuck have an EMS attack in court, and that will cause problems for Chuck and the prosecution.

    You know, I don't buy this EMS thing is even real, even in Chuck's mind, certainly not now. 

    He seems to have the ability to turn it off when he needs to. when he needs to meet with the banking board to screw Kim, suddenly all the floodlights and voice recorders, and everything were just fine, it's like he only "suffers" when he's around people who actually care who he is and will accomodate this thing. 

    And what I wonder is, if Chuck comes to court to testify, without his space blanket and acts normal to jury, what happens there? can Jimmy argue Chuck is crazy as part of his defense if Chuck goes and admits the whole thing is an act ?(and I personally think all of this illness since early season two is just that, an act)
  • AjasAjas Seattle, WA
    edited April 2017
    The more I think about it-- the less trouble Jimmy might be in.  But I know nothing of laws.

    Jimmy has temporary guardianship over Chuck, and had only refused to commit him over the pleadings of a doctor.  And the last time they were together, Chuck had draped his walls in tin foil... So breaking into the house, despite the urging of a "probably-should-be-committed" temporary guardee seems defensible.

    So once inside the house, what exactly is Jimmy destroying--  Evidence?  Of what?  Howard heard the tape and outlined its uselessness in court, so the only other purpose is extortion.  And Howard wants NONE of this nonsense going to court, for the reputation of HHM.  

    "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, would you please place your cellphones and watches in the bag so we can discuss the crazy person who was put in charge of the Mesa Verde case.  The fashion in which it was bungled is why we are here, today.  I'd like to call Dr Cruz to the stand."

    Howard is the real fulcrum now.  He can't lose Chuck, because losing Chuck's shares can make the firm insolvent.  He can't go after Jimmy, because Jimmy will really drag the firm through the mud.  I feel like we'll see Howard broker some temporary peace, which crumbles throughout the season. 

    Also remember-- Chuck thinks Ernie went straight to Jimmy, which he didn't.  He doesn't know that Kim is Jimmy's lawyer now, which she is.  My feeling is that both of those facts go against Chuck's leverage, since he's less able to implicate Jimmy's friends even though he thinks he can.
    johnnyhands
  • edited April 2017
    @emnofseattle @johnnyhands What I specifically don't like about the idea that Jimmy so blindly did what he did at the end is, it's too far from Jimmy dealing with anyone else considering what we've seen so far in the show, and because Jimmy just had it confirmed that Chuck is 100% deliberately out to get Jimmy... It stood out so much to me that Jimmy did EXACTLY the worst possible thing he could do, forgetting Kim and every other consideration so completely after pondering it over on camera for quite a while, that it will come off as cheap plot manuevering if no more depth is provided.
    johnnyhands
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    Melia004 said:

    @emnofseattle @johnnyhands What I specifically don't like about the idea that Jimmy so blindly did what he did at the end is, it's too far from Jimmy dealing with anyone else considering what we've seen so far in the show, and because Jimmy just had it confirmed that Chuck is 100% deliberately out to get Jimmy... It stood out so much to me that Jimmy did EXACTLY the worst possible thing he could do, forgetting Kim and every other consideration so completely after pondering it over on camera for quite a while, that it will come off as cheap plot manuevering if no more depth is provided.

    Yeah. Like I was expecting an ending where jimmy hired Mike to recover the tape kinda like he had Mike get the cash from the couple who was stealing from the county. I'm certain Mike could've eluded the private detective who's used to people far less crafty. Then confront chuck when chuck has no tape and no way to prove one existed.

    Even when betrayed, I think Jimmy in his transformation back into the ways of slipping jimmy would've handled this different. It's like the scene where Jimmy messes up tailing the guy in the restaurant. It's out of character
    johnnyhands
  • MichelleMichelle California
    edited April 2017

    Bigotry? Their president, an old man from the south, once donated money to a single campaign race on the gay marriage issue, nobody to date has shown Chick fil-A as a company has treated anybody with disrespect as a customer or employee. that is simply a slur. 

    Unfortunately, it's not. Dan Cathy, CEO of the chain and son of its founder, is widely publicized and very well known as being anti-gay marriage and has personally donated to anti-gay marriage organizations as well as donating via the chain itself.
    http://equalitymatters.org/print/research/201111010001

  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    I know as viewers we get an inside look at the plot that other characters don't, but Chucks plot to catch Jimmy was so easy to figure out when he "accidentally" let Ernie listen to a segment of the tape recording. It's so hard for me to believe that a generally intelligent and street wise person like Jimmy would be duped twice by seemingly obvious plots against him.


    Chuck is still the worst, and yes, Jimmy is better than Chuck even if he has his own obvious character flaws. Chuck is the older brother and like Kim mentioned when telling Chuck off -- Jimmy has only ever tried to impress and be accepted by his big brother, yet all Chuck has ever done in return is shit on him and his every accomplishment.
  • GuyGuy with some Grist for the Mill
    edited April 2017
    It appears Jim is having a hard time understanding why Aron and Erik (and myself) despise Chuck while giving Jimmy a pass.  Jim's go to argument is 'they both do bad things'.  Aron's counter argument is on point in that 'bad things' need to be put into context to truly judge them.  He offered the punching situation as an example.  One punch is unprovoked while they other is in defense.  Both are punches, but the context of the punch makes the difference in determining which is considered worse behavior.

    This most definitely applies to these brothers. What have we seen Chuck do that is 'bad'?  The biggest moment that resonates here is when Jimmy told him he had basically clawed his way through law school and passed the Bar.  He does this gleefully and with genuine hope Chuck will be proud of his accomplishment, but this does not happen.  For most of us hearing of a sibling working hard to accomplish their dream would instill pride and admiration.  Generally speaking, we are cognitively wired to celebrate and ultimately reinforce the successes of our loved ones above all else - even at the expense of our own agendas.  Chuck cannot do this and reveals his pathology; he loves the law's black and white structure over Jimmy's work ethic and success.  For me and I think Aron and Erik, this is unforgivable.  Being as Aron (and coincidentally my wife) has experienced this same ostracization by his jehovah's witness family, I believe this strikes real chords with him (should with Jim too as he was a JW as well).  I characterize this behavior as outright evil since evil = entropy and Chuck's behavior is tearing this relationship apart.

    What does Jimmy do that is 'bad'.  Well, he cons people.  Ya, this isn't great, but in context we see he's doing it to Delta Bravos who deserve it.  The Robin Hood troupe gets applied here.  He never cons sweet old ladies out of their pensions when in fact he has the very real opportunity to be doing just that.  Sure he uses shady tactics to get an audience with a bus full of old folks, but he does so to provide legitimate services they need.  If he was on Chuck's level, he would gain their confidence and then start milking them and drain their savings.  Jimmy has an ethos and sticks to those principals.  He takes from those that deserve it (Ken wins) and truly helps those needing help (Alpine Shepherd Boy Lady).  In addition, he also puts his family's needs above his own way past the point I would ever do.  He continues to have compassion towards Chuck even after it's clear Chuck does not give two shits about Jimmy's best interests.  It could be argued he's essentially in a codependent relationship with Chuck:  He's desperate for Chuck's love and approval, and will do almost anything to get it.  Chuck knows this and uses it...again, evil.

    You put these two in contrast and in context, and there is no way you arrive at any conclusion other than Chuck's bad > Jimmy's bad.   
    johnnyhands
  • Neither party can really let this go to trial.
    Jimmy is guilty of breaking and entering, assault, etc. at minimum in front of 3 witnesses presuming the other misdeeds cannot be proven.
    Chuck intentionally set up the situation by recording the conversation, blatantly lying to Ernesto about this being evidence protected by attorney client privilege in an ongoing case, hiring private investigators to witness the predicted reaction, and you have another partner sneaking into the house through neighboring yards to also witness the incident. Also Chuck is crazy.

    A jury isn't going to convict Jimmy here regardless of the charges because the entrapment involved is so sleazy and obvious (though perhaps technically legal). Nobody would walk away with any kind of reputation intact and I don't think Hamlin or Kim (the adults in the room) are going to blow everyone up just because of some moronic sibling rivalry pissing match,
  • Also: who is going to take care of crazy-Chuck now that he's burned Jimmy and Ernesto?
Sign In or Register to comment.