302 - Witness

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Comments

  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    LordBy said:

    Neither party can really let this go to trial.
    Jimmy is guilty of breaking and entering, assault, etc. at minimum in front of 3 witnesses presuming the other misdeeds cannot be proven.
    Chuck intentionally set up the situation by recording the conversation, blatantly lying to Ernesto about this being evidence protected by attorney client privilege in an ongoing case, hiring private investigators to witness the predicted reaction, and you have another partner sneaking into the house through neighboring yards to also witness the incident. Also Chuck is crazy.

    A jury isn't going to convict Jimmy here regardless of the charges because the entrapment involved is so sleazy and obvious (though perhaps technically legal). Nobody would walk away with any kind of reputation intact and I don't think Hamlin or Kim (the adults in the room) are going to blow everyone up just because of some moronic sibling rivalry pissing match,

    Entrapment is when the cops set you up to do something you otherwise would not have done had it not been for their actions. 

    The private detective and two law firm partners are not agents of the state, no matter how much Chuck pulls this "Officer of the Court" non-sense. so entrapment doesn't apply. 
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    LordBy said:

    Also: who is going to take care of crazy-Chuck now that he's burned Jimmy and Ernesto?

    once he's got jimmy screwed he'll be magically cured, this whole thing is an act. 
    manhattnik
  • I am concerned that we're going to have to believe that Chuck, who is still able to function as a fairly high level attorney, is someone who is in danger of imminent commitment at any time.  And we are also going to have to believe that after launching this attack on Jimmy, Chuck is going to take no steps to ensure that he has someone else as a health care proxy or conservator if he becomes incapacitated and that Jimmy can still retain control over Chuck's disposition.

  • Good lord, the director is ruining this show, get on with the story, and quit with the time wasting junk .

        
  • I am concerned that we're going to have to believe that Chuck, who is still able to function as a fairly high level attorney, is someone who is in danger of imminent commitment at any time.  And we are also going to have to believe that after launching this attack on Jimmy, Chuck is going to take no steps to ensure that he has someone else as a health care proxy or conservator if he becomes incapacitated and that Jimmy can still retain control over Chuck's disposition.


    Wow, good point about Chuck overlooking the fact Jimmy is tied to him legally (you'd think he'd be weighing that - maybe Chuck has an angle we haven't thought of yet ;-).  Does Jimmy still have temporary "custodianship" or whatever the proper word is)?  If so, and I think someone else alluded to this already in this thread, would breaking into Chuck's house really be illegal -and- if Jimmy maintains that was only "humoring" Chuck with his confession, would it be illegal for him to destroy the tape in his presence - maybe it was an act of trying to snap Chuck out of his delusion (that Jimmy forged the Mesa Verde wrong address).

    Maybe the writers team has come up with a legal chess match we haven't thought of, that will be revealed slowly over a few episodes. Will viewers aching for more plot action be able to take the slowness of it?



  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA

    I am concerned that we're going to have to believe that Chuck, who is still able to function as a fairly high level attorney, is someone who is in danger of imminent commitment at any time.  And we are also going to have to believe that after launching this attack on Jimmy, Chuck is going to take no steps to ensure that he has someone else as a health care proxy or conservator if he becomes incapacitated and that Jimmy can still retain control over Chuck's disposition.


    I doubt a court is going to allow a relative of chuck's embroiled in a criminal complaint where we threatened chuck's life, to act as his guardian in his interests. I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds like a payday against the state to me.

    in a way how this went down kinda reinforces why we choose Jimmy > Chuck, because prior to breaking into Chuck's house if Jimmy truly wanted revenge he could've filed to put Chuck in the booby hatch. I mean we know Jimmy really did switch those papers but to an outside observer this guy has a fake allergy to electricity, he's making people ground themselves and put their crap in a mailbox (which is actually illegal from what I understand) we have the cops from season 1 and Dr. Cruz to testify. He's raving about a conspiracy against him (that is real but he can't prove and no one would believe had Jimmy not fallen for the trap) like he's classic 5150 

    and if Jimmy truly wanted revenge he could've easily made chuck disappear into the arms of the state. 
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA

    I am concerned that we're going to have to believe that Chuck, who is still able to function as a fairly high level attorney, is someone who is in danger of imminent commitment at any time.  And we are also going to have to believe that after launching this attack on Jimmy, Chuck is going to take no steps to ensure that he has someone else as a health care proxy or conservator if he becomes incapacitated and that Jimmy can still retain control over Chuck's disposition.

    Wow, good point about Chuck overlooking the fact Jimmy is tied to him legally (you'd think he'd be weighing that - maybe Chuck has an angle we haven't thought of yet ;-).  Does Jimmy still have temporary "custodianship" or whatever the proper word is)?  If so, and I think someone else alluded to this already in this thread, would breaking into Chuck's house really be illegal -and- if Jimmy maintains that was only "humoring" Chuck with his confession, would it be illegal for him to destroy the tape in his presence - maybe it was an act of trying to snap Chuck out of his delusion (that Jimmy forged the Mesa Verde wrong address).

    Maybe the writers team has come up with a legal chess match we haven't thought of, that will be revealed slowly over a few episodes. Will viewers aching for more plot action be able to take the slowness of it?





    I would imagine if it came down to it a court would appoint a Guardian Ad Litem 

    to represent Chuck's interests while evaluating who to appoint as a guardian. I don't know that when there is witnesses to this dispute where Jimmy went total ape**** and committed at least one, probably two felonies with Chuck as the victim that a court allows Jimmy to then make decisions in Chuck's interests. 


  • Was not thinking this met the legal definition of entrapment, just that a jury would see it as such if it went to trial. Enough for reasonable doubt for enough jurors to avoid a unanimous guilty verdict in any case.
  • edited April 2017
    LordBy said:

    Also: who is going to take care of crazy-Chuck now that he's burned Jimmy and Ernesto?

    I'm sure Chuck could afford to have someone delivering groceries etc..., but interesting to note, so far, all the help has been paid for by someone else: Jimmy, for free; Ernesto and the PI guy, by the company.  Though as a partner, it ultimately comes out of Chuck's pocket, but at a discount of 1/3 presumably, the other 2/3 payed by the H & H of HH&M.  Would that 2/3 be paid exclusively by Howard Hamlin if Howard had inherited his father's share of the firm?  

    And, as has been pointed out here, Howard is dependendent on Chuck to not sell out his partnership to keep the firm afloat.  So that makes Howard dependent on Chuck - who's dependent on Jimmy not committing him (or, as his temporary custodian, if he is still that, selling out his share of the firm.)  So both Chuck and Howard are dependent on Jimmy, yet they're trying to screw.  Yes, I agree with others who say this looks like Chuck and Howard should have easily taken this into consideration - but maybe there's more to the legal angle of Jimmy's vulnerability that they've worked out already - to reduce their respective dependencies on Jimmy - that they're willing to risk the firm's reputation, due to being fully aware how much power Jimmy has.

    So I predict we'll know a lot about these seemingly weak plot points by the end of episode 3.  I suppose the writer's could have revealed both Chuck's and Howard's inner thinking about this by now, or maybe it will be revealed next week.













  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    edited April 2017
    Official prediction: Francesca had to leave the MVD because she was providing fake IDs for the Disappearerer.  She's how Jimmy will get to know Robert Forster.

    There's a whole network of crooked ID makers across all the states and Fran is in it up to her eyeballs.

    Side bet: this is what will happen with Kim. She will disappear(tm). 
    johnnyhands
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    LordBy said:

    Also: who is going to take care of crazy-Chuck now that he's burned Jimmy and Ernesto?

    Howard. In a little, tiny maid's outfit.
    MichelleemnofseattleMelonuskmanhattnik
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA

    LordBy said:

    Also: who is going to take care of crazy-Chuck now that he's burned Jimmy and Ernesto?

    I'm sure Chuck could afford to have someone delivering groceries etc..., but interesting to note, so far, all the help has been paid for by someone else: Jimmy, for free; Ernesto and the PI guy, by the company.  Though as a partner, it ultimately comes out of Chuck's pocket, but at a discount of 1/3 presumably, the other 2/3 payed by the H & H of HH&M.  Would that 2/3 be paid exclusively by Howard Hamlin if Howard had inherited his father's share of the firm?  

    And, as has been pointed out here, Howard is dependendent on Chuck to not sell out his partnership to keep the firm afloat.  So that makes Howard dependent on Chuck - who's dependent on Jimmy not committing him (or, as his temporary custodian, if he is still that, selling out his share of the firm.)  So both Chuck and Howard are dependent on Jimmy, yet they're trying to screw.  Yes, I agree with others who say this looks like Chuck and Howard should have easily taken this into consideration - but maybe there's more to the legal angle of Jimmy's vulnerability that they've worked out already - to reduce their respective dependencies on Jimmy - that they're willing to risk the firm's reputation, due to being fully aware how much power Jimmy has.

    So I predict we'll know a lot about these seemingly weak plot points by the end of episode 3.  I suppose the writer's could have revealed both Chuck's and Howard's inner thinking about this by now, or maybe it will be revealed next week.













    I don't know that the other H is around, we've never seen him, and I wonder if Chuck bought him out and Howard only holds one third, I don't know that Howard would put up with Chuck if he held two thirds of the firm. 
    Coryjohnnyhands
  • Jimmy acting like a total amateur sort of killed this episode for me. He can swindle people with a smile in all other situations, but here he turns into a bumbling idiot. Just didn't buy it. And, like with TWD, I absolutely hate it when people do things they wouldn't really do just to advance the plot. 
    manhattnik
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    Chuck is just jealous because Jimmy looks like Kevin Costner while Chuck looks like Lenny from Laverne and Shirley.
    Danistamps
  • Just a thought that I didn't see mentioned here or on the podcast: Gus could've been on to Mike starting on the day he had the gas cap transmitter swapped out. The battery was supposed to be dead, but if meticulous Gus checked it, he would've known he (or at least the restaurant) was "made" by Mike.

    All the rest, the pickups, making Jimmy at the restaurant, and not* making the drop that morning was Gus's surveillance.

    *I didn't see the sweeping pickup described on the cast and here. Maybe just words were exchanged. First of all, how many packages of drugs can you fit in a lobby dustpan. And the backpack looked just as full when it left as it did when it arrived.
    emnofseattle
  • Oh yeah, that's a good point. If anyone checks the transmitter and find's it working before swapping the battery out Mike's jig is up.
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    scott777b said:

    Just a thought that I didn't see mentioned here or on the podcast: Gus could've been on to Mike starting on the day he had the gas cap transmitter swapped out. The battery was supposed to be dead, but if meticulous Gus checked it, he would've known he (or at least the restaurant) was "made" by Mike.

    All the rest, the pickups, making Jimmy at the restaurant, and not* making the drop that morning was Gus's surveillance.

    *I didn't see the sweeping pickup described on the cast and here. Maybe just words were exchanged. First of all, how many packages of drugs can you fit in a lobby dustpan. And the backpack looked just as full when it left as it did when it arrived.

    I was thinking that. Gus probably found out earlier that morning and didn't want to call his mule, so he waited until drop time and used a code or signal of some sort to tell him off. 
  • edited April 2017
    Did anyone else notice that Ernesto's finger twitches like Gustavo Fring's when he approaches the law offices to tell Kim what he heard on that tape? 

    I made a gif and posted it to Twitter. Brandon K. Hampton, the actor who portrays Ernesto, retweeted it. 


  • I’m rewatching Season 3.  This episode Ernesto pauses outside his car before calling Kim.  He stands in the lot and taps his fingers on his leg (nervous tick).  So there’s a theory about a relation to Gus.  Gus had this same tick leaving the DEA building after his interview following someone’s death.   I’m too lazy to scroll through all the pages on this season on this forum. Has this been addressed already? If so disregard what I’m saying.
  • Did anyone else notice that Ernesto's finger twitches like Gustavo Fring's when he approaches the law offices to tell Kim what he heard on that tape? 

    I made a gif and posted it to Twitter. Brandon K. Hampton, the actor who portrays Ernesto, retweeted it. 


    Well crap, all I had to do was read one post prior, sorry guys.. lol
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