307 - The Most Powerful Man in the World (and His Identical Twin Brother)

A_Ron_Hubbard

Director: Craig Zobel
Writer: Nick Cuse & Damon Lindelof

George

International Assasin Pt. Deux.

Got a feeling this will be one of my favorites.

pavlovsbell

Oh man, I got chills from Max Richter's original title music. I've missed it so much.

adobo1148

Fuck that was cool

Dummy

Actual chills when he said Patti Levin and the music blasted at top volume

Michelle

Patti Levin is the fucking Secretary of Defense in the alternate world????   Shit just got really real.

KingKobra

Do you watch or do you browse the forums?

KingKobra

Excellent episode closing the "other side" part of the story beautifully. The show continues to straddle the line between reality and the mystic.

My friend said the episode was kind of boring, to me this episode was anything but that. I was riveted from the beginning. I am anxious, happy and sad that next week will be the final episode.

Michelle

KingKobra said:

Do you watch or do you browse the forums?

Was that for me?  If so, I was doing both at the same time.  Why?

calebthrower

Another terrific episode. And I found this to be extremely funny as well

JTKIII

Was pretty disappointed in this episode. Felt more like a comedy for the duration of the hour than the grief driven drama that we've come to expect. To be the 2nd to last episode and to be this disappointed is a bummer. There was no emotional connection at all. For Kevin to think he screwed up with Nora made no sense. She's been a complete asshole this entire season and he had every right to leave her at the hotel. So that epiphany Kevin had at the end fell flat for me at least. Also, the international assasin theme episode was amazing in season two because it was original and it never had been done before. Now it's been done three times and i think we all saw this coming from the very beginning of the season. I thought Lindelof had something up his sleeve and was going to throw us a curveball at some point but nope. He threw that lazy 0-2 fastball right down the middle. Okay, rant over.

pavlovsbell

That was utterly fucking delightful. I liked that the tone was different from the previous visits, and that Kevin decided to live in the real world and possibly try to repair things with Nora. I filled in some of the dialogue right before Kevin spoke it. "Part II." "Patti Levin." And did a fist pump each time. I was on pins and needles when the mystery of the Vice President was building. I was afraid it would be Laurie, and I didn't want that because Laurie had an excellent sendoff, and the tone of this would undercut that just one episode later.

This is easily the most enjoyable episode of television of this year for me (so far), and I loved the hell out of The Young Pope.

Taka

JTKIII said:

Was pretty disappointed in this episode. Felt more like a comedy for the duration of the hour than the grief driven drama that we've come to expect. To be the 2nd to last episode and to be this disappointed is a bummer. There was no emotional connection at all. For Kevin to think he screwed up with Nora made no sense. She's been a complete asshole this entire season and he had every right to leave her at the hotel. So that epiphany Kevin had at the end fell flat for me at least. Also, the international assasin theme episode was amazing in season two because it was original and it never had been done before. Now it's been done three times and i think we all saw this coming from the very beginning of the season. I thought Lindelof had something up his sleeve and was going to throw us a curveball at some point but nope. He threw that lazy 0-2 fastball right down the middle. Okay, rant over.

I liked this episode more than you did but I did think Kevin's epiphany fell a little flat. The last time he tried to be honest with Nora, she bailed on him. He had good reason for being afraid of talking with her, not to mention the way she tried to project her guilt over leaving Lilly on to him. Their break up hardly rests on his shoulders. I think the more important revelation is that he was just desperate to escape and was looking for any excuse to go back to the other side, even a completely insane mission that he didn't even believe in. This wasn't meant to be something fresh and new like International Assassin was, it's about Kevin finally learning to let go of this place.

KingKobra

Michelle said:

KingKobra said:

Do you watch or do you browse the forums?

Was that for me?  If so, I was doing both at the same time.  Why?

It was for everyone posting during the epsidoe...and Ineas being snarky/saractic thus the " " emoji

zachgolleher

Great episode of television! Kevin Sr. sitting alone on the roof of Grace's house reminded me of the Millerite woman from the first scene of the season. 

I think this basically confirms the theory that Kevin Jr. identified with and maybe even envied the GR's philosophy and the way its members go along day-to-day. 

So many great things about this episode! I'm equal parts anticipating and dreading the finale next week. On the one hand, it means one of the greatest shows I've ever seen is coming to a close. On the other hand, it's the greatest show on television and if "The Prodigal Son Returns," and "I Live Here Now" are a gauge for what we can expect, "The Book of Nora" will be "Ozymandias"/"Felina" good. 

darthcaedus1138

Excellent episode. The "you fucked up with Nora" line was kind of obvious, but beautifully conveyed and it makes sense that Kevin, who is always running when he should be happy had to find out this way. He has to cut out his own heart(kind of) to own up to the fact that he's made a huge mess of his life and the only way to fix it is to kill his obsessive messiah complex/ ability to run to the other side.

Oh and the dick sensor was hilarious.

If next week is even just good, this will have sealed the deal as one of the best drama series ever. Seeing as it's Nora based, I'm thinking it will work.

JTKIII

Taka said:

JTKIII said:

Was pretty disappointed in this episode. Felt more like a comedy for the duration of the hour than the grief driven drama that we've come to expect. To be the 2nd to last episode and to be this disappointed is a bummer. There was no emotional connection at all. For Kevin to think he screwed up with Nora made no sense. She's been a complete asshole this entire season and he had every right to leave her at the hotel. So that epiphany Kevin had at the end fell flat for me at least. Also, the international assasin theme episode was amazing in season two because it was original and it never had been done before. Now it's been done three times and i think we all saw this coming from the very beginning of the season. I thought Lindelof had something up his sleeve and was going to throw us a curveball at some point but nope. He threw that lazy 0-2 fastball right down the middle. Okay, rant over.

I liked this episode more than you did but I did think Kevin's epiphany fell a little flat. The last time he tried to be honest with Nora, she bailed on him. He had good reason for being afraid of talking with her, not to mention the way she tried to project her guilt over leaving Lilly on to him. Their break up hardly rests on his shoulders. I think the more important revelation is that he was just desperate to escape and was looking for any excuse to go back to the other side, even a completely insane mission that he didn't even believe in. This wasn't meant to be something fresh and new like International Assassin was, it's about Kevin finally learning to let go of this place.

But didn't Kevin learn that on his second trip to International assassin when he sang 'Homeward Bound' at Karaoke night? I honestly rolled my eyes when Kevin said he wanted to "go home" when Patti asked him what he wanted.

KingKobra

JTKIII said:

Taka said:

JTKIII said:

Was pretty disappointed in this episode. Felt more like a comedy for the duration of the hour than the grief driven drama that we've come to expect. To be the 2nd to last episode and to be this disappointed is a bummer. There was no emotional connection at all. For Kevin to think he screwed up with Nora made no sense. She's been a complete asshole this entire season and he had every right to leave her at the hotel. So that epiphany Kevin had at the end fell flat for me at least. Also, the international assasin theme episode was amazing in season two because it was original and it never had been done before. Now it's been done three times and i think we all saw this coming from the very beginning of the season. I thought Lindelof had something up his sleeve and was going to throw us a curveball at some point but nope. He threw that lazy 0-2 fastball right down the middle. Okay, rant over.

I liked this episode more than you did but I did think Kevin's epiphany fell a little flat. The last time he tried to be honest with Nora, she bailed on him. He had good reason for being afraid of talking with her, not to mention the way she tried to project her guilt over leaving Lilly on to him. Their break up hardly rests on his shoulders. I think the more important revelation is that he was just desperate to escape and was looking for any excuse to go back to the other side, even a completely insane mission that he didn't even believe in. This wasn't meant to be something fresh and new like International Assassin was, it's about Kevin finally learning to let go of this place.

But didn't Kevin learn that on his second trip to International assassin when he sang 'Homeward Bound' at Karaoke night? I honestly rolled my eyes when Kevin said he wanted to "go home" when Patti asked him what he wanted.

I think this episode, if anything showed that he fell back into his "old ways" even after his second trip. I mean he was "attempting" to kill himslf over and over again. It wasn't as "genuine" as this moment was where he decided to destroy that world and stay in the "real world".

Melia004

I love it! It seems like Kevin is actually gonna suck it up and live.

Max points to Lindelhof for the part on the afterlife island... You can't actually prove he was referencing Lost. They have to be giggling about that one.

pavlovsbell

Yeah, he told Laurie as much when he said that he felt more alive at the hotel than he did in the real world. (ETA: this was for @JTKIII and @KingKobra -- I forgot to quote)

Was the penis device a joke about the gross objectification people had about Justin Theroux's jogging scene? If so, that's kind of funny, but I feel even more bad for Theroux. He was so embarrassed about that, and now people will be talking about it again.

Kristina

So good, so juicy. When Kevin Sr said while sitting on the rooftop, "Now what?", I thought to myself that this is how I will be feeling next week after the Finale!

Michelle

pavlovsbell said:

Was the penis device a joke about the gross objectification people had about Justin Theroux's jogging scene? If so, that's kind of funny, but I feel even more bad for Theroux. He was so embarrassed about that, and now people will be talking about it again.

I can't be the only one who heard a quite audible *thwap* when he slapped it onto the sensor - not once, but twice.

Dummy

I wonder if they had an argument in the writers room to make the code 6969, 420 or 58008

Michelle

KingKobra said:

Michelle said:

KingKobra said:

It was for everyone posting during the epsidoe...and Ineas being snarky/saractic thus the " " emoji

Ok cool.  I don't know why I'm so sensitive lately!   WTF.  (This recovery is kind of doing a number on me this weekend, so maybe it's that I guess.  Whatever.  Anyway.)

All the Chickens

So, we still going with its all just a series of coincidences with astronomical odds? Kevin was drowned and out for what seemed like at least a few hours before he rose to life again. At least long enough that they lost some hope of his resurrection, finally laid him out in the church house and placed a sheet/shroud over him (like Jesus in his tomb), and his apostles kept watch over his body before even they finally fell asleep waiting.

Of course, if we really want to dig some heels in, there's always the chanve that Kevin was laying around asleep the entire time and they forgot to check his pulse of for signs of breathing.

A_Ron_Hubbard

Wow, what an episode. I was a bit scared coming into tonight, because that's how I roll, but I thought it was amazing. And not only that, but I'm really excited, because I'm feeling at the end of this penultimate episode, exactly how I felt after season two's penultimate episode. And we all know how season two ended! I got high hopes now, very high!

GredalBee

It's great, but I guess I'm still raw about Laurie.  Especially how this episode ended and everyone could use a stabilizing character like her.  I understand that she couldn't help those people and she was disturbed by the Kevinites.  But just wait 24 hours and if the world doesn't end, the Kevinites disband and your purpose as "the healer" is restored.  The most rational character on the show, that's a therapist to boot, should've known that.  They even set her up in episode 5 as the smug doubter who was going to Australia to help sort through the bullshit.  I don't know why they dropped that thread when all she had to do was wait.

It's senseless, much like real suicide I guess.  But somehow a television character committing suicide, complete with a capricious flashback to an unknown suicide attempt, doesn't feel right at all.  It's like a big wand the writers can wave over any situation, doesn't matter how smart of rational the character is supposed to be, they can just pull that card whenever.  Maybe that's why it doesn't feel right.  That's not really the Laurie I've seen for 25 episodes, and that one scene is just supposed to make it work.

Melia004

All the Chickens said:

So, we still going with its all just a series of coincidences with astronomical odds? Kevin was drowned and out for what seemed like at least a few hours before he rose to life again. At least long enough that they lost some hope of his resurrection, finally laid him out in the church house and placed a sheet/shroud over him (like Jesus in his tomb), and his apostles kept watch over his body before even they finally fell asleep waiting.

Of course, if we really want to dig some heels in, there's always the chanve that Kevin was laying around asleep the entire time and they forgot to check his pulse of for signs of breathing.

How would Kevin Jr. know what Chris Sunday looked like?

JaimieT

GredalBee said:

It's great, but I guess I'm still raw about Laurie.  Especially how this episode ended and everyone could use a stabilizing character like her.  I understand that she couldn't help those people and she was disturbed by the Kevinites.  But just wait 24 hours and if the world doesn't end, the Kevinites disband and your purpose as "the healer" is restored.  The most rational character on the show, that's a therapist to boot, should've known that.  They even set her up in episode 5 as the smug doubter who was going to Australia to help sort through the bullshit.  I don't know why they dropped that thread when all she had to do was wait.

It's senseless, much like real suicide I guess.  But somehow a television character committing suicide, complete with a capricious flashback to an unknown suicide attempt, doesn't feel right at all.  It's like a big wand the writers can wave over any situation, doesn't matter how smart of rational the character is supposed to be, they can just pull that card whenever.  Maybe that's why it doesn't feel right.  That's not really the Laurie I've seen for 25 episodes, and that one scene is just supposed to make it work.

This show has been great at showing everyone's reactions to an existential crisis. Suicide is one of those reactions. It's not "a card to pull"... It was something that was extremely well written and very meaningful to myself. I think it's just not how you'd react, and it's okay to feel sad about the death, but I take issue (in a friendly way) with the insinuation that it shouldn't have happened.

Also... no, I don't think 'nothing happening' on the 7th anniversary would at all change things for her. She saw the truth. She saw even the most sane people bend to the power of superstition and fear. You think this won't happen again on the 10th anniversary? The 13th? The 15th? The 20th? Motherfucker, I'd want out of that.

I think it's just not your bag. These hotel episodes aren't really mine either, but I think they make the stuff I do like stronger. The show writers have an incredible commitment to character integrity, and hey, sometimes that means a "senseless" suicide.

Edit: I want to add, Laurie fucking CLICKED for me with that flashback. I went from not really understanding her to suddenly seeing myself. (And I could add emo shit like "oh everyone thinks they know me, but they're just projecting themselves onto me" to theorize why you thought you knew her, but that's weird, let's keep that confined to a parenthetical and unsaid.)

Alkaid13

@Melia004
Presumably Kevin Sr. showed him a picture.

Alkaid13

Man the top three keep the comparisons going with Justin Theroux playing twins,the real supernatural vs science debate should be whether the writers on Fargo/BCS/Leftovers keep coincidentally copying each other or if there's an actual conspiracy. Great fucking episode though, never thought I'd be so happy to watch nuclear holocost.