A.ron's passionate defense of season 1 is exactly how Lost's finale supporters feel

MichaelVCassidyMichaelVCassidy Harrisburg, Pa
edited June 7 in Following The Leftovers
@A_Ron_Hubbard Thanks so much for your great coverage of this great show. When I heard your impassioned defense of season one on the pod, I wanted to stand up and cheer (but I use a wheelchair so that wasn't happening)
TaraC73
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Comments

  • MichaelVCassidyMichaelVCassidy Harrisburg, Pa

    @A_Ron_Hubbard Thanks so much for your great coverage of this great show. When I heard your impassioned defense of season one on the pod, I wanted to stand up and cheer (but I use a wheelchair so that wasn't happening)

    Why is my whole post not showing?

  • MichaelVCassidyMichaelVCassidy Harrisburg, Pa
    @A_Ron_Hubbard Thanks so much for your great coverage of this great show. When I heard your impassioned defense of season one on the pod, I wanted to stand up and cheer (but I use a wheelchair so that wasn't happening) I wanted to cheer because - even though season one is my least favorite of the three - it's still great television, especially episode six on.

    A.ron and Jim at times have adopted the hive mind opinion that the end of Lost sucks, or at least has its massive failures, without seeing how it actually ended.

    From the way I've heard A.ron in particular speak about his expectations leading up to The Leftovers finale and than hearing his appreciation of it after seeing it - I actually think he would love Losts finale. The Leftovers and Lost both ended in very similar ways, while still different.

    I say this all to say that maybe now you guys can understand how us who loved all or most of Lost feel when we see or hear people bash it. It's exactly how you feel about The Leftovers season one. Except maybe worse because some of the people hating on Lost think the island wasn't real and nothing that happened, happened. Which couldn't be more false.

    Lost actually spelled out what it's ending was way more than what The Leftovers did. Saying flatly that it was all real and everything that happened was the most important thing to ever happen to those characters, all in clear dialog. While the leftovers left many things up for debate - which I absolutely loved. Throughout the episode, I first thought Nora went through and Kevin followed her using the LADR too. Then when Laurie showed up I thought Nora died and this was her afterlife, and Kevin shows up when he dies later (which could still be true). Then Nora told her story, I believed her, I realized Laurie just went scuba diving and came up, and this was just 15 years later. I thought it was brilliant how we can come to many conclusions.

    I feel the same about some of losts mysteries. The Finale answered the ultimate question of "what is this other flash world we're seeing" - and answered it with great satisfaction, that no one I've ever heard of guessed ahead of time. Some other mysteries were left ambiguous and I loved that, just like I loved it in The Leftovers.

    It's a damn shame some people will never start watching the leftovers because of a false narrative surrounding the first season. And it's a damn shame some people will never finish Lost because of a false narrative surrounding season 6 and it's end. Maybe now, a.ron will understand better those of us who passionately support Losts end the way he passionately supports the leftovers beginning.

    nstinson
  • MichaelVCassidyMichaelVCassidy Harrisburg, Pa
    Sorry for multiple posts. Don't know what happened there with my phone
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    That's funny because when @A_Ron_Hubbard was saying (essentially), "If you don't like it, you don't get it", my immediate thought was, "Jesus, mate - now you just sound like a Lost stan."

    And now we go into round 567 of The Lost Argument...
    MichaelVCassidyhisdudeness915kingbee67alexander.klassenakritenbrinkDaveyMacMichelleaberry89nstinsonhypergenesband 1 other.
  • MrXMrX CO
    edited June 7
    haha yea I don't want to get into the Lost debate anymore with A.Ron but a lot of what he was saying in the finale podcast could very easily be applied to those of us who still hold a candle for Lost. And I won't argue with his and Jim's assertion that Lost is the "failed" beta version of the Leftovers - because this is all subjective! 

    BUT ... given that A.Ron didn't see the season 4-5 arc, which really had a lot of the good emotional payoff that the leftovers had (I will agree that most of the Lost actors can't hold up to Coon/Theroux though) I just don't think he has enough info to fully justify his claim. For example I will hold "The Constant" and "The Incident" as two of the most satisfying episodes of tv on an emotional level, including anything the Leftovers has done (and I hold the Leftovers very high in my short-list of best tv series). 

    Personally I think both shows were very successful at what they were trying to do. In some ways Lost was a more impressive feat because JJ/Lindelof/Cuse basically had to trick a broadcast network into making this crazy show (ABC was largely trying to capitalize on the sucess of Survivor!), and they had to make the bulk of it in standard 22-episode seasons (and yes there were shitty filler episodes, but the fact that they largely made it work having to fill that much airtime is pretty amazing). The Leftovers was made on a network and in an era that is much more friendly in terms of letting a show-runner do what they want.
    MichaelVCassidynstinson
  • gguenotgguenot CA
    edited June 7
    What bothers me about LOST is primarily that they did not have a concept for the ending until the final season which cheapens the finale. It came off phoned-in and a lot of the prior season seemed to be fly full speed forward without regard for a cohesive plot. I didn't like the finale (or the journey really, except Season 1) of The Leftovers, but even i can see that there was structure and purpose and the finale fit.

    I do agree with the overall sentiment of this post however-- i was surprised to find out the NIETHER of the guys had seen the finale of LOST (i thought Jim had) so for them to form an entire opinion of the show not having seen the final season is a little suspect. But luckily for them, they just happen to be right-- LOST sucks
    kingbee67voodoorat
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    First off, it's not the same.  It would be like someone saying the first two seasons of LOST sucked, but they really made it worth watching in the final season.

    Secondly, I'm not doing this again.
    gguenotMichaelVCassidyGredalBeeKingKobrahisdudeness915voodooratMelonuskMichelle
  • Frakkin TFrakkin T Currently Offline
    Dee said:


    And now we go into round 567 of The Lost Argument...

    Lots of people hate lost but they sure do love to talk about it.

    JaimieTTaraC73
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Frakkin T said:

    Dee said:


    And now we go into round 567 of The Lost Argument...

    Lots of people hate lost but they sure do love to talk about it.

    Well, I did not start this conversation...
    Frakkin TTaraC73
  • Frakkin TFrakkin T Currently Offline
    Dee said:

    Frakkin T said:

    Dee said:


    And now we go into round 567 of The Lost Argument...

    Lots of people hate lost but they sure do love to talk about it.

    Well, I did not start this conversation...
    that wasn't aimed at you, more at the level of hatred and vitriol that keeps on coming about Lost on the forums. I think most of us who are pro-Lost have pretty much checked out on it by now. I certainly won't defend it to the haters anymore. People like what they like and hate what they hate, end of story.
    TaraC73
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto

    I think a primary difference is that Lost made itself about the mystery, the connections etc.  By intention, they made watching the show a puzzle to solve.  It was a fun ride, but by the end they couldn't live up to their own promise, delivered on a few things and wrote off everything else as "island rules".  Most people found that very unsatisfying.  People who defend Lost's ending, overly focus on the actual ending.  It's not the finale, or even the last season that are problems unto themselves, it's everything that led up to that and how season 6 was used to side-step the convoluted narrative of seasons 1-5 (or more specifically, 3 or 4 to 5).  They wrote themselves into a corner, found a pretty dodgy way out and dropped or just wrote-off everything else that didn't fit. 

    With the Leftovers, the message from the get-go was "let the mystery be".  There was an unexplained event at the heart of the show, but the show went out of its way time and time again to stress that the mystery wasn't what the show was about.  Most of the negative reactions that I've seen about the Leftovers finale had to do with "not getting answers about X"...either forgetting or not realizing that answers were ever promised.  It wasn't a show about a mystery, it was a show about living in the wake of one.

    If you liked how Lost wrapped up, that's great.  But there's a large number of people who fully understood it, totally "got it" and still had issues with it.  They did the best that they could with the situation that they created for themselves.  Lindelof used Leftovers to exorcise his Lost demons, he's been pretty open about that.  Whatever enjoyment any of us got from Lost we have to recognize - as Lindelof has - that there were demons there to be exorcised. 

     



    MichaelVCassidydarwinfeeshy
  • GrahamGraham Grand Rapids, MI
    image
    hisdudeness915CretanBullakritenbrinkMichelleNikkiPTaraC73
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)

    @A_Ron_Hubbard Thanks so much for your great coverage of this great show. When I heard your impassioned defense of season one on the pod, I wanted to stand up and cheer (but I use a wheelchair so that wasn't happening)

    Why is my whole post not showing?

    This forum has been programmed to ignore any and all Lost threads.
    KingKobraMichelleNikkiP
  • BB2KBB2K Adelaide, South Australia
    I fucking love Lost, and I could not give half a shit about threads like these. A Ron doesn't like it, so what. It doesn't invalidate your opinion, and there are things he might not get because he didn't watch it all, but that's fine BECAUSE he didn't watch it all and doesn't want to.
    Wa1kingDistance
  • PSPS Montreal, Canada
    edited June 8
    I love and $upport Bald Move, but their lack of respect and knowledge of LOST really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. It was THEE television event for 5 years, almost every cinematic or ensemble cast tv show of today owes a debt to LOST. Your entire job is to talk about television, you really can't fancy yourself as a wholesome TV critic with that big of a pop culture gap in your repertoire. It would be like if Anderson Cooper was in coma for 5 years in the last decade and then came on television to talk about the landscape of today's world.

    It also bothers me on an ethical level, I don't know if they really appreciate or are as passionate about their job as much as they used to be. They've been complaining a lot about having to watch so much stuff on the lunches and whatnot and each time it makes me roll my eyes. Like people are paying you $300 to watch a single movie and are literally funding your livelihood to sit on a chair and crack jokes and mine reddit for theories for an hour or two each day and you can't even bring yourself to finish one of the biggest and most iconic shows of the generation...okay. No offense, but with that kind of work ethic, it's easy to see why they flamed out of real world jobs in their 30s. 
    nstinsonMichaelVCassidy
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited June 8
    Aside from a hardcore bunch of fanatics on the internet, I don't know anyone who gave much of a shit about Lost one way or the other. I think proclaiming it as THEE SHOW and it being a pop culture gap if you didn't watch it is a stretch.

    People are allowed to not like or not be interested in shows, or not think a show was that great. Calm the hell down, Lost fans. You're like bloody evangelists trying to angrily convert everyone to your religion. Jesus.
    Cory
  • FlashGordonFlashGordon Leeds, UK
    edited June 8

  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto

    Your point about Lost is fair enough (even if I don't agree, it's a fair point).

    Your comments about work ethic are crazy, and I think that you're radically underestimating how much work goes into recording a podcast...now consider how many they put out per week, now consider that they also run a company and all that entails as well.

    I have no doubt that doing this for a living requires more work and more time than whatever 9-5 they were doing before they went full time as podcasters.

    KingKobra
  • Jesus, whenever the argument is "You have to watch the entire show!", I'm just going to quote Aron from the other Lost thread 

    "If you don't like my opinion, keep reading it until you do.  From the start.  Sit your progeny down and make them read it too.  Maybe you don't understand it yet."

    Seriously. Don't like steak? Keep eating. Still don't like it? Eat more of it. Feel like you want to puke? Order two more. You will eventually realize that steak is the greatest meat of all time and you will thank me for it. 



    DeeKingKobra
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    To be fair that would actually work with steak.
    Michellehisdudeness915KingKobraWa1kingDistance
  • I loved Lost from the start to the finish. (Mostly).
    My only issue with the show was some of the useless/constant flashback scenes.
    There were times when I was just saying ' please just get on the stuff on the Island'

    The Aron and Jim Lost podcast was one of the worst/cringe worthy shows I've ever heard. Neither of these 2 guys watched the show in it's entirety. 






    nstinson
  • voodooratvoodoorat Atlanta
    yes'n how many times must a man defend lost...
    before he's forever banned?
    the answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind...
    CretanBullNikkiPVasilnate1TaraC73
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    PS said:

    It also bothers me on an ethical level, I don't know if they really appreciate or are as passionate about their job as much as they used to be. They've been complaining a lot about having to watch so much stuff on the lunches and whatnot and each time it makes me roll my eyes. Like people are paying you $300 to watch a single movie and are literally funding your livelihood to sit on a chair and crack jokes and mine reddit for theories for an hour or two each day and you can't even bring yourself to finish one of the biggest and most iconic shows of the generation...okay. No offense, but with that kind of work ethic, it's easy to see why they flamed out of real world jobs in their 30s. 

    This is kind of an odd thing to say. It's very difficult to hustle enough to set yourself up as a full time creative. It's not like having a 9-5 job where you go in and do your role but you don't have to make sure the ship stays afloat. And I don't listen to all of their different podcasts but on the ones I have listened to, they seem to have done a lot of work before the show in terms of prep. I never took their comments on Lunch as complaints, more as just explanations of why they would choose to cover this or that, or not cover it. Even if you love your work, it can be a grind sometimes and what I've heard them saying is they are drawing boundaries here and there so it doesn't become too much of a grind. 
    DaveyMac
  • PS said:

    .

    It also bothers me on an ethical level, I don't know if they really appreciate or are as passionate about their job as much as they used to be. They've been complaining a lot about having to watch so much stuff on the lunches and whatnot and each time it makes me roll my eyes. Like people are paying you $300 to watch a single movie and are literally funding your livelihood to sit on a chair and crack jokes and mine reddit for theories for an hour or two each day and you can't even bring yourself to finish one of the biggest and most iconic shows of the generation...okay. No offense, but with that kind of work ethic, it's easy to see why they flamed out of real world jobs in their 30s. 

    You do realize that putting out GOOD podcasts is more than watching a show once and sitting down for 1-2 hours to talk about it right? 1st usually they watch episodes more than once, then they go into research, then they gather feedback so that they can cast. They do the cast and then sit down and edit if need be. This on top of the commissioned casts which take at least 1-3+ hours to watch once, gather feedback from commissioners and do a podcast on it.

    Not sure why you would get personal with them all over a tv show that hasn't been on the air in YEARS. How their opinion on 1 show is "ethically" troubling is beyond me. We listen for their opinion/banter even if it doesn't agree with our own.
    NikkiPhisdudeness915Brawn
  • PS said:

    I love and $upport Bald Move, but their lack of respect and knowledge of LOST really leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

    Ha ha, I hope you're not a Twin Peaks fan.
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited June 9
    The lost podcast was not the guys choice. It was commissioned and if I remember the thread correctly the guys warned the group multiple times.

    The guys were very open about the fact they hadn't seen all of Lost and would not. It's not their fault people commissioned the cast anyways very well knowing they would only get to choose 3 episodes to make the guys watch. And the guys would not watch like 50 hours of TV to make up for the lost Lost episodes.

    That's like someone saying they will paint a room for $300 and then I get pissed when that person packs up their things and leave and the four other rooms in my house are not painted. That wasn't the deal or agreement. The Painter did his job. It's my expectations that are out of whack.

    KingKobraTaraC73
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    edited June 9
    Dee said:

    Aside from a hardcore bunch of fanatics on the internet, I don't know anyone who gave much of a shit about Lost one way or the other. I think proclaiming it as THEE SHOW and it being a pop culture gap if you didn't watch it is a stretch.

    People are allowed to not like or not be interested in shows, or not think a show was that great. Calm the hell down, Lost fans. You're like bloody evangelists trying to angrily convert everyone to your religion. Jesus.

    Yeah, I never watched a single episode, and probably never will, especially with the way those that bunch of fanatics try to build it up.  It reminds me of the way people tried to build up BrBa.  By the time I started watching it, it was past the point were it could ever reach my expectations, and to this day I am sure that plays a part in why I see it as a good to very good, but not great TV show.  I never fully connected with it because it (mostly Walt) never became as great and grand as those fanatics led me to expect it to be.  Maybe that's a cop out, but I suspect the dichotomy between expectation and reality would be much larger with Lost than it was with BrBa.
  • Not touching this one....


    image
    Michelle
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    edited June 9
    PS said:

    I love and $upport Bald Move, but their lack of respect and knowledge of LOST really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. It was THEE television event for 5 years, almost every cinematic or ensemble cast tv show of today owes a debt to LOST. Your entire job is to talk about television, you really can't fancy yourself as a wholesome TV critic with that big of a pop culture gap in your repertoire. It would be like if Anderson Cooper was in coma for 5 years in the last decade and then came on television to talk about the landscape of today's world.

    It also bothers me on an ethical level, I don't know if they really appreciate or are as passionate about their job as much as they used to be. They've been complaining a lot about having to watch so much stuff on the lunches and whatnot and each time it makes me roll my eyes. Like people are paying you $300 to watch a single movie and are literally funding your livelihood to sit on a chair and crack jokes and mine reddit for theories for an hour or two each day and you can't even bring yourself to finish one of the biggest and most iconic shows of the generation...okay. No offense, but with that kind of work ethic, it's easy to see why they flamed out of real world jobs in their 30s. 

    Where did you get the idea I flamed out in my career? I made one company so successful the owners sold it for a quarter billion dollars then left a six figure income as a software contractor to take a flyer on Bald Move because I could, and if it didn't work out, hey, I could go right back. Not sure if I could now, five years out, but I imagine I'd be able to do something to make ends meet with my resume and contacts. I don't want to brag, there's tons of people smarter and more successful and with much more education than myself. I'm just trying to set the record straight.

    Now, I do happen to think I got the best job in the world, but you know, it's still a job. I wanted to be a computer programmer since I was seven years old. Some days I got to write the coolest, most elegant and clever code that made or saved millions. Some of that medical auditing code I wrote might have saved lives, and I left work with a spring in my step. But, sometimes I had to write the millionth CRUD screen in my career, or work on a doomed project that I knew would be canceled half way through as soon as I got out of the first planning session. Sometimes I get to watch The Leftovers, sometimes I have to watch LOST. I kid, I kid!

    But seriously, you've never seen or heard a critically or popularly acclaimed something or other and hated it personally? I know you have. What are you going to do when someone pays you 300 to review it? Lie to them? Thats the easy way, dare I say it, the lazy, no work ethic way out. Or are you going to try to do your best to give a fair and reasoned review that reaches the unfortunate conclusion that you're not as into it as them? That's hard. It sucks bumming people out or disappointing them.

    It's all perspective. I appreciate your support, I hope this makes you feel better about it. I'll never claim our work is really, conventionally hard, I've detassled corn in 100 degree 90 percent humidity weather back in my youth. That was hard. Loading a plane in subzero weather was hard. Knocking on doors and peddling religion for 100 hours a month was hard. This ain't that. But we do spend a lot of time doing it, and I take it seriously.

    Not liking LOST isn't that out of the mainstream as far as opinions go. I get people who write me in all the time and say, they're half a season into The Wire, Mad Men, Leftovers, Justified, whatever, and then they say, "A.Ron, I don't get it. I don't see what you're seeing. What should I do?" You know what I tell them? Stop watching. Not everything is for everyone.
    BrawngguenotMichelleWa1kingDistanceDaveyMac
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