310 - "Somebody to Love"

13

Comments

  • michielterlouwmichielterlouw Helsinki
    edited June 2017

    This one you pissed me off on.  First off, we had a 5 month time jump from Christmas so it's spring...not fall/winter.  Secondly, even if it is the darkest days of winter with -30 windchill, who travels around with popcicles in their car?  No freezer needed?  Do you keep your car's interior below zero when you're traveling in the winter? it's just weird.  Why not a Twix or some Arby's?  Just a strange choice.

    These are the types of meaningless details that would bog down the show.  If they devoted screen time to Gloria figuring out where the bus was, then going to the closest store, buying the popsicle, jumping in her cruiser and speeding down the highway to catch the bus before the popsicle melted would it have been any more satisfying for the viewer?  Can’t we just fill in those unimportant blanks ourselves without seeing them as points of criticism?  Are you equally disturbed by the fact that they didn't show her making sure she had a full tank of gas before setting off to track down the school bus?  Or can we just accept these things as unimportant trivialities?  As for the time jump, whatever month is it Gloria is wearing a winter coat and boats.  In the scene before and after it Emmitt is wearing a full length wool coat and layers (a sweater, shirt etc) under it.  At the very least the weather is chilly.  For the love of her son and sake of a popsicle, Gloria turned off her heater.   I guess we’re all different, but in my mind these things don’t warrant criticism or explanation – they ultimately don’t matter and with a few seconds of thought any viewer can come up with something that makes sense..


    I'm enjoying this discussion. And you make some excellent points.

    Just wanted to say that I usually don't notice plot holes until Jim and A.Ron point them out in the podcast. But the popsicle thing.... even I immediately thought that was super odd.

    Also the car that magically got fixed kinda took me out of the story. When Emmit was looking around... I was thinking "hmmmm.... I wonder if he'll drive off with the police car or with Nikki's car." So then when he just got into his own car and took off, it took me by surprise (but not in a good way)



    GredalBee
  • What were Nikki's plans for Emmit?  Did she want to kill him or stick stamps on his forehead?  She could have just killed him when she stuck the stamp on him ( assuming she is the stamp sticker), but  instead just wanted to screw with him some more before finally killing him, i guess.  It just seems like if you really want to kill Emmit, even if you want to talk to him before you do it, you should get it done at the first opportunity, not stick a stamp on his head when he's home alone and then confront him in public, on a highway, where cops might drive by.  Maybe I'm missing or forgetting something.  Overall, the season had some great moments, but it is my least favorite season of the three.
    CretanBull
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    A really interesting look at Fargo S3 in relation to all three seasons.

    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/22/15833772/fargo-finale-recap-season-3-review-somebody-to-love
    CretanBull
  • edited June 2017
    Given the way that Varga managed to constantly avoid death and capture like some kind of entity of pure evil, I am inclined to believe that he indeed escaped the clutches of Gloria Burgle and the DHS - there is just nothing to suggest that he would be brought down, especially after we learned from the IRS agent earlier in the episode that he must have some kind of high-up governmental connection. Also the way Varga faded to black before the camera began panning toward the door seemed to be another indication that he would indeed vanish back into the world once more.
    ElisaDoctor_Nick
  • tmp15487 said:

    What were Nikki's plans for Emmit?  Did she want to kill him or stick stamps on his forehead?  She could have just killed him when she stuck the stamp on him ( assuming she is the stamp sticker), but  instead just wanted to screw with him some more before finally killing him, i guess.  It just seems like if you really want to kill Emmit, even if you want to talk to him before you do it, you should get it done at the first opportunity, not stick a stamp on his head when he's home alone and then confront him in public, on a highway, where cops might drive by.  Maybe I'm missing or forgetting something.  Overall, the season had some great moments, but it is my least favorite season of the three.



    If Nikki just wanted to kill Emmitt, she could have done it while he was knocked out - but she wanted to confront him.  Given that there was just a shoot out, it's reasonable to think that people would look for Emmitt and his house would be one of the first places they looked, so a confrontation there would be risky.  She designed a plan to isolate him, draw him out to a location that she could trust (safer than confronting him at home - a place that is more familiar and comfortable to him) and cut him off from cell phone service.  There's some risky in doing it roadside, but given that its a rural road in Minnesota I think it was a calculated risk.

     


  • Elisa said:

    A really interesting look at Fargo S3 in relation to all three seasons.

    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/22/15833772/fargo-finale-recap-season-3-review-somebody-to-love



    I didn't really connect it to the first two seasons, but this was my take on the third season for sure.  I also think that the whole notion of truth being subjective and not absolute was meant to be a statement about the current political climate & Trump.


    Elisa
  • @A_Ron_Hubbard
    I really liked Season 2 and also really liked this Season about equally. If this is indeed the last season I think it was a good way to go out. I'm not sure if that disproves a divide between people who love/hate Season 2/3 but that's my two cents I guess.
    Elisa
  • edited June 2017
    Just listened to the cast.  Fascinating hearing the explanation that maybe Nikki had some kind of device that can temporarily disable a car, something I've never seen on TV or in a movie before.  Jim kind of brought it back to Earth and is ultimately correct that 5 seconds of footage is all you needed, but they didn't and now it's an issue.  Thanks for not being condescending like it was some blatantly obvious thing and we must be morons for not getting it.

    It's a shame the final conversation is supposed to be a thematic moment because I couldn't shake the fact that I had already seen this.  In a Nic Cage movie.  *paraphrasing* "I will guarantee you I'll never see the inside of a court room.  Here's what's going to happen... there will be a knock on that door.  A man who outranks you will offer congratulations, then he will say I'm free to go.  You'll protest, but it won't matter.  Because as much as you think I'm evil, I'm a necessary evil and people higher up will always need people like me."

    In that film Nic Cage is let go, if that's any indication.  If you think that's some brilliant writing and political litmus test from Hawley, fair enough, but I guess it didn't really work for me since I've seen it in a much more comedic film.
  • edited June 2017
    Listening to the podcast right now and I'm amazed at how many people point to Emmit's broken phone as this oh big plot hole. How is it a plot hole? Saul Goodman would say his client drove innocently on this street earlier and had technical difficulties with his phone before he accidentally dropped it out of the window. There's no law against it, it's a free country.

    Nikki and the officer shot each other, that's a fact. Nothing points to a third person committing a crime. If Emmit wants to be completely truthful he can tell exactly what happened. The crazy girlfriend of his dead brother wanted to kill him when the officer showed up and they shot each other. For all we know he could be the one who informed the police after he drove off.    
         
    CretanBullDeeElisa
  • *shrug* I guess I'm in the minority with liking this season/finale....
    ElisaCretanBullGredalBee
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    I liked the season/finale too. Thought provoking season.
    CretanBull
  • edited June 2017
    Loved it... great 10 episode single season.... great balance... satisfying (if ambiguous) ending...

    of course, Meta-points for Carrie Coon looking sexy in a government issued DHS/DSD windbreaker.

    But, I loved the juxtaposition of the last scene and the very first scene of Ep 1. Policeman/suspect in an interview room.  Of course, the first scene was a clearly innocent man, trying to tell the truth against a system that was corrupt and didn't care.  And in this last scene we have a clearly corrupt man not answering any questions honestly against a person with real facts.

    But, I'm 50/50 on who walks through that door next (and that's okay).  Remember the IRS agent mentioned that his inquiry was suppressed by "higher-ups"... and there are many other indications throughout the entire season that the system is corrupt... all systems are corrupt.  In a way, even if Gloria is right, she only wins because she fully embraces her system (the police state,, not the corrupt financial system) and stops trying to be lone-last-good-cop.

    It doesn't matter if Goldfarb works for Varga (or even if he works for her) - they are both part of the corrupt system.  Goldfarb has fully embraced that system..she a winner within that system and will play the role(s) she needs to play (rich widow, perfect alibi, etc.).

    Emmitt is also part of that system.  Oh, he never embraced it as fully as Ruby did.. but in the end he was just as guilty.  The system won't work if EVERYONE is crushed under the wheels.. Emmitt is one of the winners.  Even if it is fairly hollow and ultimately unfulfilling..  Fighting (and losing) against the system is what made Emmitt unhappy

    Most tragic of all (to me) is Nikki.  Positioned to be "one of the little people" crushed by the system.  She has the understanding and skills to fight.  She was even supported by heavily intervetion in her fight... but, even that couldn't help her in the end.  All is not lost..the fight goes on (Ray is a kitten).  Sure, the Cossacks arenn't raping and pillaging any more..but, there is still much work to do.


    and lastly, let me say...A policeman named Burgle(r)....... I just loved that all season!





    Elisa
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    toncica said:

    Listening to the podcast right now and I'm amazed at how many people point to Emmit's broken phone as this oh big plot hole. How is it a plot hole? Saul Goodman would say his client drove innocently on this street earlier and had technical difficulties with his phone before he accidentally dropped it out of the window. There's no law against it, it's a free country.


    Nikki and the officer shot each other, that's a fact. Nothing points to a third person committing a crime. If Emmit wants to be completely truthful he can tell exactly what happened. The crazy girlfriend of his dead brother wanted to kill him when the officer showed up and they shot each other. For all we know he could be the one who informed the police after he drove off.    
         
    They would investigate him if only to verify he wasn't an accomplice of Nikki's.

  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    I think A Ron spent a little much time criticizing Gloria for wanting to arrest Varga over the deaths of his henchman. She doesn't need to fabricate anything, Minnesota has the felony murder rule. Since Varga went to the warehouse in the course of committing a felony and people died as a result of the commission of that felony Varga can be charged and convicted for murder.

    It's like if you and a friend rob a convienence store and the clerk shoots and kills your partner, you can be charged with your partners murder under felony murder rule. Nothing has to be fabricated
  • toncica said:

    Listening to the podcast right now and I'm amazed at how many people point to Emmit's broken phone as this oh big plot hole. How is it a plot hole? Saul Goodman would say his client drove innocently on this street earlier and had technical difficulties with his phone before he accidentally dropped it out of the window. There's no law against it, it's a free country.


    Nikki and the officer shot each other, that's a fact. Nothing points to a third person committing a crime. If Emmit wants to be completely truthful he can tell exactly what happened. The crazy girlfriend of his dead brother wanted to kill him when the officer showed up and they shot each other. For all we know he could be the one who informed the police after he drove off.    
         
    They would investigate him if only to verify he wasn't an accomplice of Nikki's.

    And then what? They investigate and close the case. People have been calling the phone at the crime scene a plot hole without thinking through that nothing relevant to the plot comes of it.   
  • MattyWeavesMattyWeaves Mid-State New York
    edited June 2017
    I loved the final episode. Except for the last 30 seconds. It caused me to start reflecting on the season in a different way, and slowly I started to turn on the season as a whole. I was enjoying the season a lot, but now when I reflect on it, I was disappointed.

    Oh well.

    Edit: Also, I think the LA episode was the setup episode for the entire season. If that guy never goes to LA and gets into all the shit, he never changes his name to E. Stussy. If he doesn't change his name to E. Stussy, Maurice never messes up the names and Gloria never gets involved. Which means Winnie doesn't get involved to the level she does, and neither of them ever meet Varga.

    Then who knows where the story goes with Ray and Emmit. Maybe Maurice gives up and nothing ever happens like it unfolds. Sy could have a different fate if he doesn't get pressured by Winnie after the car accident. Etc, etc.
    Elisa
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    edited June 2017
    toncica said:

    toncica said:

    Listening to the podcast right now and I'm amazed at how many people point to Emmit's broken phone as this oh big plot hole. How is it a plot hole? Saul Goodman would say his client drove innocently on this street earlier and had technical difficulties with his phone before he accidentally dropped it out of the window. There's no law against it, it's a free country.


    Nikki and the officer shot each other, that's a fact. Nothing points to a third person committing a crime. If Emmit wants to be completely truthful he can tell exactly what happened. The crazy girlfriend of his dead brother wanted to kill him when the officer showed up and they shot each other. For all we know he could be the one who informed the police after he drove off.    
         
    They would investigate him if only to verify he wasn't an accomplice of Nikki's.

    And then what? They investigate and close the case. People have been calling the phone at the crime scene a plot hole without thinking through that nothing relevant to the plot comes of it.   
    It could go either way. So far Emmit hasn't shown himself to be good and street smart, there's enough shady stuff that a prosecutor who wanted support of the police unions for reelection could easily stretch a story to put a "cop killer" in jail

  • toncica said:

    toncica said:

    Listening to the podcast right now and I'm amazed at how many people point to Emmit's broken phone as this oh big plot hole. How is it a plot hole? Saul Goodman would say his client drove innocently on this street earlier and had technical difficulties with his phone before he accidentally dropped it out of the window. There's no law against it, it's a free country.


    Nikki and the officer shot each other, that's a fact. Nothing points to a third person committing a crime. If Emmit wants to be completely truthful he can tell exactly what happened. The crazy girlfriend of his dead brother wanted to kill him when the officer showed up and they shot each other. For all we know he could be the one who informed the police after he drove off.    
         
    They would investigate him if only to verify he wasn't an accomplice of Nikki's.

    And then what? They investigate and close the case. People have been calling the phone at the crime scene a plot hole without thinking through that nothing relevant to the plot comes of it.   
    It could go either way. So far Emmit hasn't shown himself to be good and street smart, there's enough shady stuff that a prosecutor who wanted support of the police unions for reelection could easily stretch a story to put a "cop killer" in jail

    I can hear the judge saying:"I don't like that story. You know why? Because you can't prove it. Also, there's a nine year old girl named Laura..."  
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    toncica said:

    toncica said:

    toncica said:

    Listening to the podcast right now and I'm amazed at how many people point to Emmit's broken phone as this oh big plot hole. How is it a plot hole? Saul Goodman would say his client drove innocently on this street earlier and had technical difficulties with his phone before he accidentally dropped it out of the window. There's no law against it, it's a free country.


    Nikki and the officer shot each other, that's a fact. Nothing points to a third person committing a crime. If Emmit wants to be completely truthful he can tell exactly what happened. The crazy girlfriend of his dead brother wanted to kill him when the officer showed up and they shot each other. For all we know he could be the one who informed the police after he drove off.    
         
    They would investigate him if only to verify he wasn't an accomplice of Nikki's.

    And then what? They investigate and close the case. People have been calling the phone at the crime scene a plot hole without thinking through that nothing relevant to the plot comes of it.   
    It could go either way. So far Emmit hasn't shown himself to be good and street smart, there's enough shady stuff that a prosecutor who wanted support of the police unions for reelection could easily stretch a story to put a "cop killer" in jail

    I can hear the judge saying:"I don't like that story. You know why? Because you can't prove it. Also, there's a nine year old girl named Laura..."  
    I think it is a plot hole to show him not even questioned.

    Remember the interview with Winnie and Gloria and Emmit and Varga? Emmit has a way of saying dumb things. I can easily picture in my head Emmit saying stupid things without a lawyer present and getting into trouble. At least getting investigated

  • You may want to see him being questioned or see Gloria buying popsicles, but neither is essential to the outcome of the story. Therefore not a plot hole. 
    KingKobraElisa
  • edited June 2017
    Big plot hole.  The whole scene is a big plot hole.  Maybe the judge says hmmm you just happened to dump your phone in the exact spot on a little traveled highway where a woman and trooper had a deadly shootout.  Oh and the woman just happened to be your dead brothers parolee and lover.  The same brother that you were having a feud with. 

    You may not want it to be a plot hole but super criminal Emmit is going to have a breakdown under that kind of scrutiny.

    Another huge plot hole is that the trooper did not report the license plates or the situation before approaching these people? Or document it?  The trooper pulls in front of the vehicles artificially creating the shoot out dynamic?

    The car dying and then able to leave and all that bullshit.
  • Okay then.
    jomiha
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    that tidbit jim brought up on how Wrench's music was half slowed down of the Wrench & Numbers  musis kinda blew me away. bravo on that idea!
    jomiha
  • jomihajomiha Springfield IL
    Man, I hadn't read much reaction to the finale, so was surprised to hear @A_Ron_Hubbard say he and Jim were in the minority in liking it. I loved it, and loved the entire season. I don't have anything poignant to add, just wanted to let the boys know they are not alone. 
    Elisa
  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    jomiha said:

    Man, I hadn't read much reaction to the finale, so was surprised to hear @A_Ron_Hubbard say he and Jim were in the minority in liking it. I loved it, and loved the entire season. I don't have anything poignant to add, just wanted to let the boys know they are not alone. 

    Same. I adored how it ended. 
    Elisajomiha
  • I think I'm ambivalent on the season as whole. There were a couple of episodes that I absolutely loved. And the performances were stellar. I absolutely love David Thewlis and was happy to get a whole season of television with him in it. 

    But I also felt meh on a lot of the early goings and it felt like kind of chore rather than me being excited to get to it. 

    I thought the finale was fine. Fun to watch in the moment, but not much staying power for me and I do have some lingering issues. But none of those issues were big enough to turn me against it or anything.
    Chinaski
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    i'm with DaveyMac, i also thought the finale was fine. however, i thought the season was good (and at times really good).

    the first half of the finale was strong (minus the part when emmit was a dipshit and let meemo slowly come around the table and knock him out), but i  felt that the second half (particularly starting at the point when Emmit wakes up with the stamp on his forehead) is where it went kinda meh to me. just felt rushed and sorta sloppy.

    now which Hawley spinoff would you rather see.. Nikki & Wrench or Lenny & Oliver?
    DaveyMac
  • Mofojones333Mofojones333 Fort Worth, Texas
    Can someone tell me who killed old man Stussy in episode 1? You know the guy that had his nose and lips glued shut in sitting in front of the open freezer?
  • Can someone tell me who killed old man Stussy in episode 1? You know the guy that had his nose and lips glued shut in sitting in front of the open freezer?



    Maurice LeFay
  • Mofojones333Mofojones333 Fort Worth, Texas
    So who was that upstairs making noise when gloria showed up and had her shotgun? Was that still pothead Maurice lafey?

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