Can Bran see the future? If so, is it absolute or malleable?

Can Bran *see* the future or simply the past. I think they went out of their way to show that his knowledge is not absolute when he told Arya: "I thought you might go to King's Landing." This establishes that he doesn't *know* ahead of time.
To me "might" implies that there are two possibilities. Is the 'future' absolute or is it open to change? If it is absolute then Bran serves no real function other than, like people who watch the leaks, he knows what will happen before the rest of us. If the future is malleable then it opens up further interpretations of the word 'might'.
kojiattwood
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  • I'm in the camp that he cannot see into the future.  My evidence, when Bran speaks with Sansa in episode 3 this season (see youtube link below and go to the 4 minute mark), Sansa asks him to explain his powers and Bran says how he can see everything that ever happened and can see what is happening now.  And that's where he ends it.  He does not say that he can see the future.  Now maybe down the road he might be able to, but for the moment, I'd say that Bran does not see into the future.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek_BcOj_Tgg

    CoryDial888
  • In the quick flashes that he had when he first started surfing the WWN they showed wild fire going through a tunnel. We later see that scene when Cersei uses it to blow up the Sept. So it I would say he is capable of seeing the future, as to if he has unlocked they skill yet is another thing.

    I see his abilities something like this. He has limited control of what he sees. So he saw Arya at the crossroads but the vision left Jim before he could see the outcome. If he does see the future he won't necessarily know it's the future unles something is definitely in the future.
    Dial888
  • In the quick flashes that he had when he first started surfing the WWN they showed wild fire going through a tunnel. We later see that scene when Cersei uses it to blow up the Sept. So it I would say he is capable of seeing the future, as to if he has unlocked they skill yet is another thing.

    I thought about this as well, but I kept going back to the question of "are we sure that wasn't of some past event?" or "is that definitive proof?".  Afterall, everything else in those visions were of past events.  Perhaps there was some other explosion involving wild fire.  I know the way the scene looks is probably the same exact way it looks at the end of the season with the Sept explosion, but in terms of reasonable doubt, I think there is room to question it.
    Dial888
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited August 8
    They showed the exact same clip of  of the wildfire exploding beneath the sept in his vision before it happened in the S6 finale. This wasn't a similar clip, it was the SAME clip pulled from that scene. And we know that this has never happened before in the past (Jaime stopped this from happening in the past). In 5 main series books and many books about the history of Westeros and Kings Landing, we would have heard of wildfire exploding in the city by now, unless all of the maesters and characters memories were erased by the Men In Black.

    So yes, we have confirmed that this was a vision of the future.
    Dial888Elisa
  • Dial888Dial888 Ireland
    Thanks for the feedback on his ability to see the future. I know he saw the wildfire explosion but I was unsure about *when* he was seeing this. Was Bran in the same timeline as the viewer when he had this vision? Also the question remains: Is the future set in stone or is it something that can be altered?
  • edited August 8

    They showed the exact same clip of  of the wildfire exploding beneath the sept in his vision before it happened in the S6 finale. This wasn't a similar clip, it was the SAME clip pulled from that scene. And we know that this has never happened before in the past (Jaime stopped this from happening in the past). In 5 main series books and many books about the history of Westeros and Kings Landing, we would have heard of wildfire exploding in the city by now, unless all of the maesters and characters memories were erased by the Men In Black.


    So yes, we have confirmed that this was a vision of the future.



    The TV show used the same clip possibly because they did not want to create two separate clips so I don't think you can fully count that.  And we don't know for sure that wild fire was never used before in the past like that (doesn't necessarily have to be within Kings Landing).  Otherwise, how would they know what it does and such.  But I keep going back to the fact that Bran did not say "i can see the future".  To me, that's a huge piece of evidence.  And if Bran thought that he saw the Sept blowing up, why wouldn't he say "I might be able to see into the future" (because clearly Bran would know about the Sept and would have been like, oh yeah, I saw that happening before it actually happened). 

    Although, a constant problem with the show is the timeline and what happens in 1 character's time frame might be 1 month difference in someone else's time frame.  So perhaps Bran was already in the future (compared to the people in Kings Landing) when he saw that the Sept got blown up which was his past.  Not saying that was the case (as that can be easily used as an excuse) but it's possible.

    *edit- "Was Bran in the same timeline as the viewer when he had this vision?" This was exactly my point in the above paragraph.

    Dial888
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    We know that the wildfire has never exploded in Kings Landing before, which tells us that it's the only clip they could have used.
    I guess you could argue that episode 6  Bran was happening after episode 10 Kings Landing, but that would have been a bizarre choice and would have needed to be represented in some way.

    IMO, not everything has to be spelled out to the viewers verbally, although there's plenty of evidence in the books and show that these magics allow characters to see visions of the future. 
  • And I'd still go back to the fact that Bran did not say "i can see into the future" when talking to Sansa.  He told her he could see everything in the past and everything that is currently happening.  He would have continued to say, "I can see into the future".  If he could see into the future, he would have known that Arya was coming to Winterfell as oppose to saying i wasn't sure you were going to come.  If he could truly see the future, he would have known that she was going to come.  At the point in time, Bran had no reason to hold back in talking to Sansa.  I doubt he was thinking to himself "she's not believing me, I guess I'll hold back the I can see into the future because she's going to think I'm totally insane so let me change the subject and freak her out."  So basically, I'm going to say since Bran didn't say it, then he can't do it (at least for now).

  • Dial888Dial888 Ireland

    And I'd still go back to the fact that Bran did not say "i can see into the future" when talking to Sansa.  He told her he could see everything in the past and everything that is currently happening.  He would have continued to say, "I can see into the future".  If he could see into the future, he would have known that Arya was coming to Winterfell as oppose to saying i wasn't sure you were going to come.  If he could truly see the future, he would have known that she was going to come.  At the point in time, Bran had no reason to hold back in talking to Sansa.  I doubt he was thinking to himself "she's not believing me, I guess I'll hold back the I can see into the future because she's going to think I'm totally insane so let me change the subject and freak her out."  So basically, I'm going to say since Bran didn't say it, then he can't do it (at least for now).

  • Dial888Dial888 Ireland
    Yeah his doubt in relation to Arya's intentions is what got me thinking about the future as being malleable and thus qualifying his ability to 'see' it as a tangible thing
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    edited August 8
    This is just as good a place as any to leave this:
    image
    Dial888MurderbearElisacdrivebudesigns
  • Dial888Dial888 Ireland
    Freddy said:

    This is just as good a place as any to leave this:
    image

    That is brilliant

  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I had the impression that Bran's knowledge and/or visions are kind of fragmented or piecemeal as well. So when he said he saw Arya at the crossroads but thought she would go to King's Landing, I just thought he meant he hadn't seen anything of her after that.
    webswinger
  • Dial888Dial888 Ireland
    Freddy said:

    This is just as good a place as any to leave this:
    image

    Bran:"Hey Jon, you weren't so reluctant to go down on your knee the last time you were in a cave."
    Jon:
    FreddydarwinfeeshyElisa
  • MichelleMichelle California
    Dial888 said:

    Can Bran *see* the future or simply the past. I think they went out of their way to show that his knowledge is not absolute when he told Arya: "I thought you might go to King's Landing." This establishes that he doesn't *know* ahead of time.

    I asked that same question in email feedback to them yesterday morning. I thought it was a bit odd that he didn't know she was going to KL.
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Unless, she is still going to King's Landing.... Maybe he got confused on the timeline. He's got a lot of it to keep straight. Maybe he doesn't remember giving the dagger to Arya that she will hopefully be giving to Cersei. In the neck.
    All the Chickens
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited August 9
    Bran not telling his siblings exactly what is going to happen to them or about every potential threat they may have in their lives isnt proof of any inability to see the future, any more than him not telling Sansa about Littlefingers past treacherous exploits evidence that he can't see into the past.

    Bran has a lot of data in his mind, but he has to access it first. That doesnt mean he has seen every second of every possible POV throughout thousands of years in the past or that he knows exactly what is going to happen to everyone in the future and hoe it will come to pass. At least I dont believe the writers want us to think that's the case, because that would be quite the corner that they would unnecessarily be writing themselves into for some future online criticism.
    MurderbearElisa
  • edited August 9

    Bran not telling his siblings exactly what is going to happen to them or about every potential threat they may have in their lives isnt proof of any inability to see the future, any more than him not telling Sansa about Littlefingers past treacherous exploits evidence that he can't see into the past.

    Bran has a lot of data in his mind, but he has to access it first. That doesnt mean he has seen every second of every possible POV throughout thousands of years in the past or that he knows exactly what is going to happen to everyone in the future and hoe it will come to pass. At least I dont believe the writers want us to think that's the case, because that would be quite the corner that they would unnecessarily be writing themselves into for some future online criticism.

    It's not about how he didn't reveal every single piece of information to his siblings (but I think he's trying to tell Sansa this exact fact and says how it's pieces that he's trying to still put together and figure out).  He's not going to do that and the writers aren't going to have us sit there and watch that.  He told Sansa that he can see everything that has ever happened to everyone and then he backs this up by letting Sansa know that he was able to watch her marriage to Ramsay.  But he still didn't say, "I can see the future" or "I think I can see possible outcomes in the future".  And I think the reason is because at this time, he definitely feels like he does not possess that power/ability.  I think if he did have this ability, he would have mentioned it and even said "I saw the Sept of Baelor explode before it actually did".  At this point, Bran has nothing to hide from his sisters.  He sort of going out of his way to try to freak them out it appears.

    Also, @Freddy, you just kind of ruined this thread for me, but in a funny way, :).  A job well done there.

  • edited August 9
    Dial888 said:


    Bran:"Hey Jon, you weren't so reluctant to go down on your knee the last time you were in a cave."

    Jon:
    image
    ElisaDial888Michelle
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    If you are saying "Why doesn't Bran tell everyone everything right away," I think if you really think about any time you knew more than those around you, you will realize that there are lots of reasons. 

    What would be the impact on events if Bran tells everyone what he knows about Littlefinger? Whether we like it or not, Sansa made an alliance with Littlefinger that helped the Starks defeat someone really evil and get their home back, and Jon wasn't leading them anywhere good in the Battle of the Bastards, so it could have very easily gone the other way. Besides, I think Sansa already knows that LF makes alliances based on what's politically expedient for him. It's not her first time at the Littlefinger rodeo. Bran might think that Sansa could still choose Littlefinger over knowing the truth.

    It's also interesting to think about what people choose to believe or not believe. Bran has to realize that if he just drops everything on his sisters, they might not believe it if it seems to be in their interest to ignore it. And right now the Knights of the Vale make up a significant portion of the military might of the alliances the North has made. So whether they like LF or not, they are kind of stuck with him for the time being. Sansa has shown herself to be very calculating nowadays and Bran probably has seen that as well. 

    I personally don't think Bran is turning "evil," I think it's more that he has just become a human database and it's overwhelming and concerning to him. Once you know even one secret, think about how it affects you. Like say you know that your friend's husband is cheating. Or you know someone did something shifty at work. You think about these things, who to tell, when is the right time, what would the outcome be, etc. You think a lot about ethics and morality in a time like that. Now imagine you know ALL of these things about ALL of the people! It would be a huge burden.
    Dial888All the Chickens
  • Dial888Dial888 Ireland
    How would the knights of the Vale react to the news that Lysa was murdered by Littlefinger? Would they believe it or even care? Possibly not but I just think Bran is keeping his knowledge to himself because Littlefinger has a role to play: Littlefinger=Gollum
    akritenbrink
  • I think they'd care because some of those guys really don't like LF but submit to him since LF has Robin Arryn under his control.  Pretty sure if they found out that LF killed Lyssa, then LF would be put to death. 
    KingKobra
  • LittleLionessLittleLioness Pennsylvania
    Michelle said:

    Dial888 said:

    Can Bran *see* the future or simply the past. I think they went out of their way to show that his knowledge is not absolute when he told Arya: "I thought you might go to King's Landing." This establishes that he doesn't *know* ahead of time.

    I asked that same question in email feedback to them yesterday morning. I thought it was a bit odd that he didn't know she was going to KL.
    Maybe he just meant that in the moment while he was viewing it he didn't know which choice she would make.
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)

    Michelle said:

    Dial888 said:

    Can Bran *see* the future or simply the past. I think they went out of their way to show that his knowledge is not absolute when he told Arya: "I thought you might go to King's Landing." This establishes that he doesn't *know* ahead of time.

    I asked that same question in email feedback to them yesterday morning. I thought it was a bit odd that he didn't know she was going to KL.
    Maybe he just meant that in the moment while he was viewing it he didn't know which choice she would make.
    She was telling people she was going to King's Landing, so maybe he saw that and then didn't see anything afterward.
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)

    I think they'd care because some of those guys really don't like LF but submit to him since LF has Robin Arryn under his control.  Pretty sure if they found out that LF killed Lyssa, then LF would be put to death. 

    Robin would definitely go bananas if he knew. He's already just a few berries short of a fruit salad and he really loved his mother.
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    Local beer bar. Not my photo (from their Facebook page).
    Past, present or future, apparently Bran can see beer...
    image

    ElisaLittleLioness
  • edited August 13
    It is murder for sure


  • I was going through The World of Ice and Fire and found something interesting right at the beginning. At the bottom of page 6 it reads
    "Legend further holds that the greenseers could also delve into the past and see far into the future."

    It goes onto say
    "this power also claim that their visions of the things to come are unclear and often misleading"

    So it looks like Bran can see into the future. While not confirmed 100% it does seem more likely than not.
    ElisaLittleLioness
  • Book Bran certainly can, or at least he can in an abstract, symbolic way. His first vision in AGOT was showing him things like the Mountain's future transformation and possibly Jon's death.

    And now that I'm writing through it, TV Bran has had similar visions. For example, he imagined the sea flooding into Winterfell and drowning everyone shortly before the Ironborn showed up and took it.
    LittleLionessElisa
  • The past is already written the ink is dry. All that needed to be said, its a closed loop
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