Anti-Pseudoscience Thread!

gguenotgguenot CA
edited August 10 in General
Wondering if there are any others out there in the battle against the likes of Gweneth Paltrow's GOOP, Dr. Mercola's anti-vaccine train, or David "Avocado" Wolfe's bullshit "mushrooms came from cosmic winds" claims and products.

Other quackery:

Food Babe
Natural News.com
Alkaline Water
Ozone Water
Vaccines cause autism
Chemtrails
Chiropractic
Edit: Forgot the anti-GMO crowd

Here's a really good hit piece on the latter gentleman by Yvette d'Entremont "SciBabe".

https://theoutline.com/post/1951/david-avocado-wolfe-is-the-biggest-asshole-in-the-multiverse
CretanBulldarwinfeeshyGarageMovieGuyweeniegirlDaveyMac
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Comments

  • edited August 10
    With all this quackery around, the only product you can trust is Bald Move's Super Human Vitality (TM) supplement. 

    Now available in powder form.
    gguenotCretanBullKingKobraphoenyx1023FreddyDoctor_NickGarageMovieGuyakritenbrinkvoodooratalexander.klassenand 3 others.
  • I always get crapped on from my fellow lefties when I say this, but the anti-GMO stuff belongs on that list too.  The same science that tells us that global warming is real, also tells us that GMO wheat is a perfectly safe thing to make your bread and pasta from.


    darwinfeeshygguenotAlkaid13phoenyx1023GarageMovieGuyJaimieTUnderwoodweeniegirlalexander.klassenand 1 other.
  • edited August 10

    I always get crapped on from my fellow lefties when I say this, but the anti-GMO stuff belongs on that list too.  The same science that tells us that global warming is real, also tells us that GMO wheat is a perfectly safe thing to make your bread and pasta from.


    I agree that GMOs are safe.

    I think GMOs are viewed poorly by leftists because their image is tied to Monsanto and other controversial companies. It doesn't help that these companies are also the leading producers of pesticides, since pesticides are actually harmful and dangerous.
    CretanBullgguenotphoenyx1023TaraC73
  • I always get crapped on from my fellow lefties when I say this, but the anti-GMO stuff belongs on that list too.  The same science that tells us that global warming is real, also tells us that GMO wheat is a perfectly safe thing to make your bread and pasta from.


    Yes! Duh, can't believe I forgot to add that lol. Good call
  • I always get crapped on from my fellow lefties when I say this, but the anti-GMO stuff belongs on that list too.  The same science that tells us that global warming is real, also tells us that GMO wheat is a perfectly safe thing to make your bread and pasta from.


    I agree that GMOs are safe.

    I think GMOs are viewed poorly (even by leftists) because their image is tied to Monsanto and other controversial companies. It doesn't help that these companies are also the leading producers of pesticides, since pesticides are actually harmful and dangerous.



    I'm perfectly willing to criticize the ethics of any company (Monsanto tops that list!) but that's a separate issue from the science of GMOs.  I have lots of liberal friends on Facebook who's feeds are filled with stuff mocking the right for rejecting climate science, while also posting anti-GMO memes - the irony apparently lost on them.

    There's a ton of stuff I don't know, but when in doubt I'll go with science over ideology 100% of the time.


    gguenot
  • I always get crapped on from my fellow lefties when I say this, but the anti-GMO stuff belongs on that list too.  The same science that tells us that global warming is real, also tells us that GMO wheat is a perfectly safe thing to make your bread and pasta from.


    I agree that GMOs are safe.

    I think GMOs are viewed poorly (even by leftists) because their image is tied to Monsanto and other controversial companies. It doesn't help that these companies are also the leading producers of pesticides, since pesticides are actually harmful and dangerous.
    My journey from anti-GMO to pro-GMO made a stop along the way at GMOs are cool but those pesticides and Monsanto are poisoning us. A lot of the claims against Monsanto are unsubstantiated and reasearch shows that pesticides are only toxic if you ingest an amount farrrrr above any trace amounts on the food we eat. It's really scare and marketing tactics
    GarageMovieGuyDaveyMac
  • gguenot said:

    I always get crapped on from my fellow lefties when I say this, but the anti-GMO stuff belongs on that list too.  The same science that tells us that global warming is real, also tells us that GMO wheat is a perfectly safe thing to make your bread and pasta from.


    I agree that GMOs are safe.

    I think GMOs are viewed poorly (even by leftists) because their image is tied to Monsanto and other controversial companies. It doesn't help that these companies are also the leading producers of pesticides, since pesticides are actually harmful and dangerous.
    My journey from anti-GMO to pro-GMO made a stop along the way at GMOs are cool but those pesticides and Monsanto are poisoning us. A lot of the claims against Monsanto are unsubstantiated and reasearch shows that pesticides are only toxic if you ingest an amount farrrrr above any trace amounts on the food we eat. It's really scare and marketing tactics
    Its the same as the 'mercury in vaccines' argument - yeah, its there...but in such insignificant amounts, don't worry about it...having Polio is MUCH worse!
    gguenotGarageMovieGuy
  • gguenot said:

    A lot of the claims against Monsanto are unsubstantiated and reasearch shows that pesticides are only toxic if you ingest an amount farrrrr above any trace amounts on the food we eat. It's really scare and marketing tactics

    The thing with pesticides is that it is very hard to study for the negative effects. This is because these negative effects often take years or decades to manifest.

    I know this is an oversimplification, but pesticides are literally poison. I believe that ingesting trace amounts of poison every day of your life will have a negative effect on your health eventually.
    gguenotDStar
  • The Science Vs. podcast episode on GMO's was very interesting.

    https://itunes.apple.com/fi/podcast/science-vs/id1051557000?mt=2&i=1000384356463
    gguenotDaveyMac
  • gguenot said:

    A lot of the claims against Monsanto are unsubstantiated and reasearch shows that pesticides are only toxic if you ingest an amount farrrrr above any trace amounts on the food we eat. It's really scare and marketing tactics

    The thing with pesticides is that it is very hard to study for the negative effects. This is because these negative effects often take years or decades to manifest.

    I know this is an oversimplification, but pesticides are literally poison. I believe that ingesting trace amounts of poison every day of your life will have a negative effect on your health eventually.
    Fair enough
  • If people are concerned with the levels of mercury in vaccines they probably shouldn't be eating fish either. Whatever negligible downsides there might be for GMO foods is almost certainly countered by their potential to dramatically reduce world famine and the fact that increasing population numbers call for increasing food production.
    gguenot
  • gguenot said:

    A lot of the claims against Monsanto are unsubstantiated and reasearch shows that pesticides are only toxic if you ingest an amount farrrrr above any trace amounts on the food we eat. It's really scare and marketing tactics

    The thing with pesticides is that it is very hard to study for the negative effects. This is because these negative effects often take years or decades to manifest.

    I know this is an oversimplification, but pesticides are literally poison. I believe that ingesting trace amounts of poison every day of your life will have a negative effect on your health eventually.

    But this is equally true for the natural pesticides used in organic farming

    gguenotdarwinfeeshyweeniegirl
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    I'll be long dead in the cold FLAT ground before I believe my beloved earth is round like some goddamn disco ball.
    gguenotFrakkin TGarageMovieGuyakritenbrinkBrawnvoodooratDaveyMac
    I just want to be famous enough that a porn parody gets made about me.
  • Keto diet (and several other fad diets)
    90% of the supplement industry
    Acupuncture
    Cleansing
    Flat earthers
    Breathe airians
    Antioxidants

    Pesticides are kind of a first-world problem. Farmers pay for them because they increase yields and in most of the world growing more food is more important than the risks of trace chemical exposure.
    gguenotakritenbrinkDaveyMac
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas

    With all this quackery around, the only product you can trust is Bald Move's Super Human Vitality (TM) supplement. 


    Now available in powder form.
    Lagavulin 16 comes in powder form now? Well, I'll be damned.

    Seriously though, A. Ron needs to reenact this video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC94Yo_NCUI

    I just want to be famous enough that a porn parody gets made about me.
  • edited August 10

    gguenot said:

    A lot of the claims against Monsanto are unsubstantiated and reasearch shows that pesticides are only toxic if you ingest an amount farrrrr above any trace amounts on the food we eat. It's really scare and marketing tactics

    The thing with pesticides is that it is very hard to study for the negative effects. This is because these negative effects often take years or decades to manifest.

    I know this is an oversimplification, but pesticides are literally poison. I believe that ingesting trace amounts of poison every day of your life will have a negative effect on your health eventually.

    But this is equally true for the natural pesticides used in organic farming




    That's true, but I believe that natural pesticides are less effective (therefore less harmful) and they might naturally degrade more easily.

    So, while they might still have a negative effect on your health, they are less harmful than artificial pesticides.

  • LordBy said:


    90% of the supplement industry



    Just curious, what supplements do you think are legit?
  • I mean if you have actual vitamin deficiencies then you might need vitamin supplements to maintain a normal level of vitamin intake. Otherwise taking extra vitamins aren't going to really help you with anything and could possibly hurt you if you overindulge on them.
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas

    LordBy said:


    90% of the supplement industry



    Just curious, what supplements do you think are legit?
    Well I mean, of course Geritol.
    image
    I just want to be famous enough that a porn parody gets made about me.
  • edited August 10
    Alkaid13 said:

    I mean if you have actual vitamin deficiencies then you might need vitamin supplements to maintain a normal level of vitamin intake. Otherwise taking extra vitamins aren't going to really help you with anything and could possibly hurt you if you overindulge on them.




    Yeah, I only take 5000IU Vitamin D (doctor recommended) and a multi-vitamin(because I don't have a well rounded diet).
  • LordBy said:


    90% of the supplement industry



    Just curious, what supplements do you think are legit?



    Multivitamins (not the expensive ones with added super-duper-chemical-x to prevent aging)
    Vitamin D
    Niacin (not the no-flush, no side effect no effect)
    Fish Oil
    I'm ambivalent about Glucosamine/Chondriitin

    Rule of thumb: if it's expensive, says it will treat or cure a disease, says it will help you lose weight, or says it will keep you young, then it's probably BS
    Vasilnate1DaveyMac
  • gguenot said:

    A lot of the claims against Monsanto are unsubstantiated and reasearch shows that pesticides are only toxic if you ingest an amount farrrrr above any trace amounts on the food we eat. It's really scare and marketing tactics

    The thing with pesticides is that it is very hard to study for the negative effects. This is because these negative effects often take years or decades to manifest.

    I know this is an oversimplification, but pesticides are literally poison. I believe that ingesting trace amounts of poison every day of your life will have a negative effect on your health eventually.

    But this is equally true for the natural pesticides used in organic farming




    That's true, but I believe that natural pesticides are less effective (therefore less harmful) and they might naturally degrade more easily.

    So, while they might still have a negative effect on your health, they are less harmful than artificial pesticides.

    You believe something... but there's no scientific basis for it.

    As far as I know:
    1) Natural pesticides are less effective/precise, therefore farmers need to use more of it.
    2) Synthetic pesticides are tested more extensively for health effects.
    GarageMovieGuyDaveyMac
  • The assumption that natural = good is pseudoscience. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's false. There really isn't any correlation to justify the assumption.

    I'm not even sure what the distinction is given that everything considered "unnatural" is formed from "natural" inputs. What is the arbitrary step or action between the two categories?
    DaveyMac
  • Vasilnate1Vasilnate1 Salem, MA

    Alkaid13 said:

    I mean if you have actual vitamin deficiencies then you might need vitamin supplements to maintain a normal level of vitamin intake. Otherwise taking extra vitamins aren't going to really help you with anything and could possibly hurt you if you overindulge on them.




    Yeah, I only take 5000IU Vitamin D (doctor recommended) and a multi-vitamin(because I don't have a well rounded diet).
    even with a well rounded diet its near impossible to get all the vitamins you need from food.  the majority of food we eat isnt at peak freshness, and most of the nutrients have deteriorated by the time we consume it.
    "because everything would be what it isn't"
  • LordBy said:

    The assumption that natural = good is pseudoscience. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's false. There really isn't any correlation to justify the assumption.

    I'm not even sure what the distinction is given that everything considered "unnatural" is formed from "natural" inputs. What is the arbitrary step or action between the two categories?

    It's really become a first world luxury to be able to entertain the organic, gmo-free movement-- which is pretty selfish and detrimental to other countries that don't have that luxury
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited August 10
    Being a person who's tried both "organic" and "non-organic" foods (which what does that title even mean? If it came from something previously living at some point it's organic) I've never noticed the difference. Granted there is a taste difference between normal food and really cheap fast food but that's obvious.
    gguenot
  • Vasilnate1Vasilnate1 Salem, MA
    yeah, I love how the "small farm" organic movement is now "Big Business", and they can walk whatever fine line of regulation they need to so they can throw that "organic" label on your food and charge you 300% more for it.  The USDA regulation states that only 95% of a product ingredients need to be organic to get the label.  And Organic food produced in other countries and shipped here was probably from a sweatshop style farm with child labor and horrible conditions.
    gguenot
    "because everything would be what it isn't"
  • edited August 10
    Just wanted to say thanks to the OP for starting this discussion. Besides Bald Move, Skeptic's Guide to the Universe is the only podcast that I'm able to listen to with regularity, and it's cool to see those two things overlap.

    I almost got into a Facebook fight with a lady in our old neighborhood who posted some 'chemtrails' and started wailing and gnashing her teeth, saying that she had trouble breathing so they must be releasing chemicals in the air. She ignored the fact that she lives in one of the most populous cities in the country, a city with relatively few public transportation options (hence more personal vehicles on the road, translating to air pollution), and she even said in the same post that she'd JUST taken up running before she had the breathing problems. People, man.
    gguenotDaveyMac
    I record movie reviews in my garage. Check em out!
  • Oh yeah, I also heard on Skeptic's Guide that coconut oil doesn't have any special properties, it's just an oil that's high in fat. Everyone in my office swears by it.
    gguenot
    I record movie reviews in my garage. Check em out!
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited August 10
    When I was around 13-16 I went to a chiropractor. He went to our church and my parents were friends. He was an incredibly generous guy and how he gave back the church was giving away free chiropractic care to church goers. I think we went around 3 times a week. 3 cracks - back, side and neck. And every couple months you would get an x-ray (this now worries me a bit) and he would see if the alignment of your spine changed. I was young and cant remember if my spine "aligned".  It felt good, that's all I remember. At the time I and my parents thought it was helping me not get so horribly nauseous around my period. 

    Perhaps my spine align a bit - but not only do our sitting and sleeping habits bend it right back into shape in no time, I don't understand how releasing air pockets in our bone joints is suppose align them....and I am pretty sure my hormonal naucousness just went away because - ya know your body changes. He always described why chiropracticacy worked in pretty vague terms. "Your body will be able to communicate faster and better when all the nerves in your spine align."  "Your body will be healthier, less compliant to diseases because is working together"  Of course, he never went into the biological science of what is suppose to be going on. (Although most doctors don't ask, and ask them)   I am a big believer in the placebo effect though.  Feels nice, but you will be back in a month or so. 
    “No time to squabble Troy, for Greendale on THREE! One, two- Jeff, every second counts. For Greendale on TWO! One-"
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