Valonqar Prophecy

edited August 12 in Game of Thrones
There seems to be a popular assumption that Jaime will turn against Cersei and kill her, thus fulfilling the prophecy. Just a thought, but what if Jaime stands by Cersei all the way to her death and somehow kills her to prevent further pain or put her out of her misery? Would that be a major disappointment to fans? I think so, which is one reason why I hope it doesn't play out that way.
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Comments

  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    Something pretty magical is going to have to happen to get him back to Cersei when you consider the situation he found himself in at the end of Ep. 4.
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    So the wording of the prophecy goes:

    "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

    Is Ser Jamie suppose to grow another hand, or will he get a new gold plated hated, one that has the fingers and thumb in a position in which he can choke her?

  • voodooratvoodoorat Atlanta
    edited August 12
    He could probably use the gold one as a simple choking lever. Or maybe high valerian has some unlikely lexical quirk where it doesn't have plural noun or something silly. My guess is that Tyrion is way too obvious and maybe Jaime a little too obvious. Maybe Arya.

    (Edit) I've always been in the Jaime is gonna kill her camp but the way the show's diverged now I'm less sure.
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    Arya isn't a little brother (and hasn't GRRM specified it's not a gender neutral noun)?


    If Arya were to take Jamie's face though, would she have two hands?
  • Oh yeah. Uh. The Hound? Theon? Bran? Lots of little brothers in this damn story (although book Jaime still makes the most sense)
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    I'd put my money on Jamie (just hoping like hell he dies too).
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    I'd prefer a full twist on this prophecy.

    Like Jaime has bought into Cersei's dynasty talk SO much that he completes his heel turn and becomes mad king Jaime. He saw the dragons, fought the dragons, hates the dragons. Wights come, Cersei actually comes to her senses, wants to unite with Danny, but Jaime kills her to keep the war going.
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    Here's a serious question I have- Do prophecies just ever NOT come true on GoT?
  • Vasilnate1Vasilnate1 Salem, MA
    Cory said:

    So the wording of the prophecy goes:


    "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

    Is Ser Jamie suppose to grow another hand, or will he get a new gold plated hated, one that has the fingers and thumb in a position in which he can choke her?

    what if he melts it down and pours it over her throaght 
  • The little brother is the name of a clock at the citadel.

    The hands are her times ticking down.
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY

    Here's a serious question I have- Do prophecies just ever NOT come true on GoT?

    Show only? I think they have come true or are in the process of being fulfilled -- like Cersei's Maggy the Frog prophecy. And I'm including Bran's and Jojen's visions. Prophecies are tricky things, and the characters who are obsessed with them get spanked (Cersei, Rhaegar, Melisandre, etc). I'm usually more interested in how the characters interact with prophecy than the prophecy itself.

    FWIW, here is what GRRM had to say about it:

    [Laughs] Prophecies are, you know, a double edge sword. You have to handle them very carefully; I mean, they can add depth and interest to a book, but you don’t want to be too literal or too easy... In the Wars of the Roses, that you mentioned, there was one Lord who had been prophesied he would die beneath the walls of a certain castle and he was superstitious at that sort of walls, so he never came anyway near that castle. He stayed thousands of leagues away from that particular castle because of the prophecy. However, he was killed in the first battle of St. Paul de Vence and when they found him dead he was outside of an inn whose sign was the picture of that castle! [Laughs] So you know? That’s the way prophecies come true in unexpected ways. The more you try to avoid them, the more you are making them true, and I make a little fun with that.
    Cory
  • budesignsbudesigns Tega Cay, SC
    If Jaime is killing her to put her out of her misery, I don't think that choking is the way to do it... how about some of that painless poison?

    And, catch me up here: the show still has not revealed the "valonquar" portion of that prophecy, has it?


  • CoryCory New Scotland
    budesigns said:

    And, catch me up here: the show still has not revealed the "valonquar" portion of that prophecy, has it?
    Nope
    budesigns
  • LannitikLannitik Milwaukee
    WELL i think we see what will finally push Jaime over the edge, a fake pregnancy 
    akritenbrink
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)

    Something pretty magical is going to have to happen to get him back to Cersei when you consider the situation he found himself in at the end of Ep. 4.

    orrrrr he could just swim across a river
    budesignsgguenot
  • edited August 14
    If Cersei dies in childbed wouldn't that fullfill the prophecy?  Technically it was her younger brother who killed her by impregnating her. She could die with the babys hands clinging to her neck.  Especially if she bleeds out like Lyanna she would look pretty pale.

    KingKobratreerocks
  • I don't think she is prego.
  • LittleLionessLittleLioness Pennsylvania

    I don't think she is prego.




    What would her motivation be for lying?
  • I don't think she is prego.




    What would her motivation be for lying?
    I think she is prego. It would give her and Cersei something to bond over. Given her own story with her pregnancy and Karl Drogo she will probably not execute or exile a pregnant woman and show some sympathy for Cersei.

  • I don't think she is prego.




    What would her motivation be for lying?
    To control Jaime.  He's shown discomfort in her behavior and has questioned their plans.  He's expressed doubts they can win.  He allowed Tyrion to leave.  There's a chance he could turn on her if he truly sees her as a threat to everything, but he'd give his life to protect their child.
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    wildcard said:

    I don't think she is prego.




    What would her motivation be for lying?
    To control Jaime.  He's shown discomfort in her behavior and has questioned their plans.  He's expressed doubts they can win.  He allowed Tyrion to leave.  There's a chance he could turn on her if he truly sees her as a threat to everything, but he'd give his life to protect their child.
    Yeah and he seemed pretty excited by the prospect of being the "legitimate" father of the baby. 

    If we're supposed to believe the prophecy, though, she was supposed to have three kids and they were all supposed to die, so the kid with Robert she talked about in season 1 was a lie, and this one is too (either that or she will lose the baby or die before it's born). 

    She's also at an age where the risks of having a disabled child are increased, as are the chances of pregnancy complications, stillbirths and miscarriages. That having been said, a bunch of my friends had "oh shit I'm almost 40" babies in the past few years and their kids are all fine.
  • MoonMan13MoonMan13 Northern Kentucky
    Cersei will give birth to a child fitting the description of Tyrion as an infant. She will try to kill the child and Jamie will kill her to keep his offspring alive.

    Jamie will go on to treat his son the way Tywin should have treated Tyrion.
    budesignsLoneWolf
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    Schlupp said:

    If Cersei dies in childbed wouldn't that fullfill the prophecy?  Technically it was her younger brother who killed her by impregnating her. She could die with the babys hands clinging to her neck.  Especially if she bleeds out like Lyanna she would look pretty pale.

    Plus if it's a boy, it would also be a little brother.
  • Cory said:

    Schlupp said:

    If Cersei dies in childbed wouldn't that fullfill the prophecy?  Technically it was her younger brother who killed her by impregnating her. She could die with the babys hands clinging to her neck.  Especially if she bleeds out like Lyanna she would look pretty pale.

    Plus if it's a boy, it would also be a little brother.
    Huh? Do you think Jamie is her dad? It would be her son/nephew or sonphew(pronounced sun-few)
  • Schlupp said:

    If Cersei dies in childbed wouldn't that fullfill the prophecy?  Technically it was her younger brother who killed her by impregnating her. She could die with the babys hands clinging to her neck.  Especially if she bleeds out like Lyanna she would look pretty pale.

    My girlfriend blew my tits off when she brought this thought up. If the baby is a boy and dies in childbirth while simultaneously killing Cersei it would fulfill prophecy. The prophecy said she'd have three children, it didn't say anything about miscarriages/stillbirths (and in the books she had an abortion once when she thought Robert was the father). The prophecy said the valonqar and if the baby is a boy, he'd be a little brother. Finally, choke the life out of you could also be figurative language. I also think it would be satisfying that the thing she loves most (her children) is what ends up killing her. My main question would be, where does it leave Jamie? If he is still alive when she dies does he just surrender to Dany? After last night's episode it seems like he would if he had the chance. 
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)

    Cory said:

    Schlupp said:

    If Cersei dies in childbed wouldn't that fullfill the prophecy?  Technically it was her younger brother who killed her by impregnating her. She could die with the babys hands clinging to her neck.  Especially if she bleeds out like Lyanna she would look pretty pale.

    Plus if it's a boy, it would also be a little brother.
    Huh? Do you think Jamie is her dad? It would be her son/nephew or sonphew(pronounced sun-few)
    it would be her other kids' little brother.
    webswinger
  • Thanks for clearing that up. Sometimes I just read that I think I'm gonna read, not what's actually written. Lol
    akritenbrink
  • theres a tendency now to dismiss Jaime as too obvious, but I think that might just be an unfortunate consequence of how long this prophecy has been allowed to fester in our collective imaginations without resolution, especially now in the age of reddit. Jaime being the valonqar might have worked perfectly fine as a twist if we only had a short wait between books, but after, what, six years? More? We've figured it out and now it's old news.

    Similar to R+L=J, actually.
    akritenbrink
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Stackpile said:

    theres a tendency now to dismiss Jaime as too obvious, but I think that might just be an unfortunate consequence of how long this prophecy has been allowed to fester in our collective imaginations without resolution, especially now in the age of reddit. Jaime being the valonqar might have worked perfectly fine as a twist if we only had a short wait between books, but after, what, six years? More? We've figured it out and now it's old news.

    Similar to R+L=J, actually.

    Agreed. My money is still on Jaime.

    akritenbrink
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    Stackpile said:

    theres a tendency now to dismiss Jaime as too obvious, but I think that might just be an unfortunate consequence of how long this prophecy has been allowed to fester in our collective imaginations without resolution, especially now in the age of reddit. Jaime being the valonqar might have worked perfectly fine as a twist if we only had a short wait between books, but after, what, six years? More? We've figured it out and now it's old news.

    Similar to R+L=J, actually.

    Yeah, again, I think that the "twist," if there is one, will have to come in a different form.  Like Jaime killing her so that he can seize power himself, not in a fit of rage or for the good of the realm.  Or he strangles her at her request. Or... he strangles her so she can come back as the night queen.
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