(SPOILERS!!!!!!) Leaked Episode 706: Death Is the Enemy

Figured I'd get this started, I just watched the episode, still going over everything in my head.  The last episode is going to fucking nuts.
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Comments

  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    It was pretty awesome. A testament to just how good the show is; I have no problem watching this episode again on Sunday.
  • mtron32mtron32 San Diego
    I don't know WHAT the hell is up with the Stark girls.  I have to believe they're playing some three dimensional chess with little finger which is why she may have sent Brienne off.  
    manhattnik
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    X-post from another thread (this one's title is more on-topic). 

    ----

    I thought this episode was FANTASTIC.

    Not a book reader. I almost definitely have lower standards, especially after last episode sucked.

    1. The Arya/Sansa thing is making no sense to me. Arya gets off on freaking people out now. Gross. She's a little mini Ramsay. I need some kind of "Frozen" parody comic, though, about sisterly misunderstandings in WinterArenFell.
    2. If you had told me I'd be team Sansa and hating Arya during seasons 1-3 by the time it came to 7...
    3. I loved everything that happened up north. LOVED the new information that killing a walker means killing the ones he raised, and how they immediately told someone to run that information back. Good military thinking. Also, nope, it didn't bother me that 1 stayed alive. Have you seen Band of Brothers? People's companies were getting all mixed up. Probably the more incredible thing was there was a walker with so few wights around him, but maybe he was new? Don't care. 
    4. LOVED the logistics of the battle in the middle of the lake. The way I imagine it, they were sending wights into the water every few minutes or so to test the ice. I don't think they'd be standing around. But I'm so used to making up head canon for this show that it doesn't ruin the moment for me, as long as I can justify it happening "off screen."
    5. Maybe I've been playing too much Zelda BOTW, but one elemental arrow insta-killing an enemy of its opposite element is very familiar to me. 
    6. I don't know how I feel about an ice dragon, but we'll see how it plays out. I guess the Night King's gonna ride him? My distaste of this is, I think, in that the human folk lost a huge advantage. So, good writing, I guess. Um, maybe I also am annoyed that there's not more lore about ice dragons. You think there would be, if this was possible...
    7. I know book readers will probably be annoyed that a dragon let other people ride him, but this is the sort of flexibility the show needs to move forward. This inflexibility is probably why GRRM is having trouble finishing his books. I've written a few novels, and while I'm not very good, I know enough to say from experience that sometimes plot elements that are super cool paint you in a corner towards the end. Or make it so you can't have a story at all, sometimes.
    8. Dammit, I'm becoming a Jon/Dany shipper SHIT. At the very least, I want them to be "family," which both of them want and lack. And Tyrion's sudden discussion about her successor makes the ending feel obvious now... Dany will suffer a fatal wound, lingering on just long enough to name Jon as her successor.
  • mtron32mtron32 San Diego
    edited August 2017
    I don't know how in the fuck they deal with an Ice Dragon.  So now the dead have air power, westeross is fucked.  They need to arm some of those scorpions with dragon glass.  She obviously learned nothing from the previous battle since Drogon ain't wearing armor yet.  At least HE didn't get the blue eyes.

    I still love Arya
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    mtron32 said:

    I don't know how in the fuck they deal with an Ice Dragon.  So now the dead have air power, westeross is fucked.  They need to arm some of those scorpions with dragon glass.  She obviously learned nothing from the previous battle since Drogon ain't wearing armor yet.  At least HE didn't get the blue eyes.


    I still love Arya
    How do you explain why she's a psycho? (I don't mean that to sound aggressive; you can say my question is flawed.)

  • mtron32mtron32 San Diego
    edited August 2017
    JaimieT said:

    mtron32 said:

    I don't know how in the fuck they deal with an Ice Dragon.  So now the dead have air power, westeross is fucked.  They need to arm some of those scorpions with dragon glass.  She obviously learned nothing from the previous battle since Drogon ain't wearing armor yet.  At least HE didn't get the blue eyes.


    I still love Arya
    How do you explain why she's a psycho? (I don't mean that to sound aggressive; you can say my question is flawed.)

    Before this episode, I was theorizing that both the Stark girls were plotting but upon reflection on 706, I think Arya could be playing both of them.  We know Arya has the acting skills and was trained to plot and scheme for the kill, setting all these scenes against a faceless man plot, it depends on each player to make the moves they make with Arya playing a role.

    My only issue is that  Sansa sending away Brienne still makes no sense to me.  
  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    I believe Brienne was sent away because Sansa was unsure how she'd act should the rift between Sansa and Arya gets nastier.
    budesigns
  • mtron32mtron32 San Diego

    I believe Brienne was sent away because Sansa was unsure how she'd act should the rift between Sansa and Arya gets nastier.

    Good point, I don't think Sansa would hurt Arya unless she absolutely had to.
    manhattnik
  • From watching episode 6, it's become apparent to me that the "loose" plot points (mainly the silly plan to bring a wight to show Cersei) were all setup for this battle on the frozen lake.

    It's like the show runners had the idea of this epic frozen lake battle with dragons (and the NK turning one into a frost wyrm) and then worked backwards to create a plot that would get everyone where they needed to be to make this happen.
    SchluppmanhattnikElisa
  • mtron32 said:

    My only issue is that  Sansa sending away Brienne still makes no sense to me.  
    It would have made more sense to send Arya 

    -she still represents the Starks
    -she wants to go to King's Landing to kill Cersei
    -gets Arya out of Sansa's business
    JaimieTmanhattnik
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA

    From watching episode 6, it's become apparent to me that the "loose" plot points (mainly the silly plan to bring a wight to show Cersei) were all setup for this battle on the frozen lake.


    It's like the show runners had the idea of this epic frozen lake battle with dragons (and the NK turning one into a frost wyrm) and then worked backwards to create a plot that would get everyone where they needed to be to make this happen.
    And weirdly, I'm okay with that. The lead-up wasn't fucking tedious. Whereas, with this Arya/Sansa thing, I'll eat my hat if anything redeems it.
    CaptainTripsmanhattnik
  • At least Drogon had training in evading flying speers. Maybe they should train with blunt scorpions?  Why couldn't Benjen ride with Jon on the horse until they were out of sight? Oh, right, we need to get rid of characters. Why didn't they have fire arrows?
    They didn't bring up the most important issue between Sansa and Arya, Sansa lied for Geoffrey willingly before which forced Arya to send Nymeria away. That should be fresh in her mind since she just met her again.

    Vasilnate1Elisa
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Right? Re: Benjen. Total "Titanic" unnecessary death.
  • edited August 2017
    Why does the vastly superiour party (Dany) agree to the terms of the vastly inferior party that just suffered a crushing defeat? They should meet on Danys terms or at least neutral ground in the open. Dany really needs a new hand, Tyrion can be  master of marbles or something.

    Elisa
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    Great episode, but sadly Storm of Spoilers pretty much told me the main plot points ahead of time. I REALLY need to stop listening, but I have zero will power (why i watched this episode early too)
    GredalBee
  • edited August 2017
    Lets be honest, just about nothing in this made any sense. 

    It was amazing spectacle. There was even some really good dialogue in parts, and great call backs to lore (e.g. Thoros through the breach). But the rest... ugh.

    The Arya/Sansa stuff is joke worthy because not a thing makes the least bit sense. 

    Lets talk about the ridiculous 'a dragon needs to die north of the wall' plot. They pretty much reverse engineered that story point and came up with a bunch of ridiculous plot holes to get there. I'm going to make the assumption that the Night King orchestrated this whole thing in order to get Dragons there so he could kill one. None of the plot/logistics/timing makes sense otherwise. Why he chose to target the flying dragon rather than the bigger dragon on the ground is beyond me. On that note, there are many epic ways to kill dragons, but a single ice javelin to the stomach didn't do it for me. Pretty lame. 

    Why did Benjen think there was no time to go with Jon? Seemed like a needless sacrifice.

    The costumes, acting, CGI, are all great, but the writing, ugh. I just have to stop thinking about this show and enjoy it for the action. 


    GredalBeeElisa
  • Can people still watch 706? All of my info on episode six is from previous links. Did they capture a ww? How are they containing it? Who dies from the battle? Do they get past this scene? Where does Jon ride off to? Do you see the others get back to dragonston? Are they going directly to kings landing?
    I heard about the Ayra Sansa stuff and Breanne sent in Sansa's place. Can anyone fill me in on my questions and/or other things that happened that I did not mention?
  • I just watched a utube recap of episode 6. It pretty much answered my questions. And I'm happy to just limit it there and watch the episode on Sunday. So disregard my previous post.

    It's sounds like an amazing episode, I don't know how the finale will play out, since the episode before the finale is the big episode. I've heard leaks on the finale, but some of the things that were supposed to happen in the finale happened in this episode. So, just have to wait and see


  • The costumes, acting, CGI, are all great, but the writing, ugh. I just have to stop thinking about this show and enjoy it for the action. 


    Bingo.  It's high quality junk food now.
    JaimieTSchluppGiovannimanhattnik
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    I'm confused about why people think the antipathy between Sansa and Arya makes no sense - I'm not picking on anyone in particular, I've seen this said multiple times.

    I don't know what it's like in the books, but in the show, they had a very spiky relationship in the first season when they were last together. They don't seem to have ever liked each other. Also, Arya has always been kind of a little arsehole. Okay, yes, she's been through a lot, but she was a gobby kid even before all the drama went down. And she's learned useful skills and become an assassin, but she also seems to have become dehumanised in the process. She also doesn't really seem to have matured in the way Sansa has - she can't empathise or take on board that Sansa has lived through terrible experiences just as she has, if not more so.

    In short, #TeamSansa, and fuck you, Arya. You need a spell in the timeout corner.
    manhattnikwasi
  • mtron32mtron32 San Diego
    Schlupp said:

    Dee said:

    I'm confused about why people think the antipathy between Sansa and Arya makes no sense - I'm not picking on anyone in particular, I've seen this said multiple times.

    I don't know what it's like in the books, but in the show, they had a very spiky relationship in the first season when they were last together. They don't seem to have ever liked each other. Also, Arya has always been kind of a little arsehole. Okay, yes, she's been through a lot, but she was a gobby kid even before all the drama went down. And she's learned useful skills and become an assassin, but she also seems to have become dehumanised in the process. She also doesn't really seem to have matured in the way Sansa has - she can't empathise or take on board that Sansa has lived through terrible experiences just as she has, if not more so.

    In short, #TeamSansa, and fuck you, Arya. You need a spell in the timeout corner.

    After rewatching a second time, I think Arya's running game.  She left the house of black and white because she did have her humanity, so I find it hard to believe that she'd actually go after Sansa this way.  Also, she's a walking lie detector so no way she can't see through that letter.  If I'm wrong, fuck this show.  Time will tell
    manhattnikGarRowebudesigns
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Dee said:

    I'm confused about why people think the antipathy between Sansa and Arya makes no sense - I'm not picking on anyone in particular, I've seen this said multiple times.

    I don't know what it's like in the books, but in the show, they had a very spiky relationship in the first season when they were last together. They don't seem to have ever liked each other. Also, Arya has always been kind of a little arsehole. Okay, yes, she's been through a lot, but she was a gobby kid even before all the drama went down. And she's learned useful skills and become an assassin, but she also seems to have become dehumanised in the process. She also doesn't really seem to have matured in the way Sansa has - she can't empathise or take on board that Sansa has lived through terrible experiences just as she has, if not more so.

    In short, #TeamSansa, and fuck you, Arya. You need a spell in the timeout corner.

    I guess I should say, I don't understand why the writers are going this direction. I didn't envision one of the Stark children turning evil and antagonizing the other. Whatever Sansa did, it doesn't warrant these threats of violence or social ruin. Jesus, Arya, back off.
    DeeElisa
  • Is an early Instant Take ot of the question?
    moughajckojiattwoodMike4000wasi
  • edited August 2017
    If it turns out that Arya isn't enacting an elaborate ruse and is actually suspiscious of Sansa's motives, I'm gonna riot.

    It would be such a let down for Littlefinger to get one over on Arya so easily.

    I just want Jon to get back to Winterfell because it might be the only thing that will get Arya to chill out.
    kojiattwood
  • OliviaDOliviaD Cincinnati, Ohio
    Fuck. I caved and watched it. They seriously made me cry with viserion's death. The slow shot on his face as he fell thru the ice got to me. Then to follow it up later with rhaegal flying around the wall alone crying out for him. Rhaegal just lost his bestie. Drogon was always off doing his own thing in essos or flying around with dany while rhaegal and viserion were hanging out together. Damn it man.
    wasiElisa
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    OliviaD said:

    Fuck. I caved and watched it. They seriously made me cry with viserion's death. The slow shot on his face as he fell thru the ice got to me. Then to follow it up later with rhaegal flying around the wall alone crying out for him. Rhaegal just lost his bestie. Drogon was always off doing his own thing in essos or flying around with dany while rhaegal and viserion were hanging out together. Damn it man.

    Oh yeah, I was crying for like the last 10 minutes. So many feels, continued with Dany/Jon moments.
  • mtron32 said:

    I don't know how in the fuck they deal with an Ice Dragon.  So now the dead have air power, westeross is fucked.  They need to arm some of those scorpions with dragon glass.  She obviously learned nothing from the previous battle since Drogon ain't wearing armor yet.  At least HE didn't get the blue eyes.


    I still love Arya
    Dragon Glass Arrows or Valerian steel spear, if they can get some more Valerian steel. It only takes instant contact to destory a white walker with Valerian steel. so imagine it would be the same for the dragon. 
  • Hatorian said:

    mtron32 said:

    I don't know how in the fuck they deal with an Ice Dragon.  So now the dead have air power, westeross is fucked.  They need to arm some of those scorpions with dragon glass.  She obviously learned nothing from the previous battle since Drogon ain't wearing armor yet.  At least HE didn't get the blue eyes.


    I still love Arya
    Dragon Glass Arrows or Valerian steel spear, if they can get some more Valerian steel. It only takes instant contact to destory a white walker with Valerian steel. so imagine it would be the same for the dragon. 
    I think the best option would be to make some dragon-glass tipped bolts for one of Qyburn's scorpions. They have a ton of obsidian now, not so much Valerian steel.
  • edited August 2017

    I didn't feel any stakes in this episode. I knew they would sacrifice some minor characters to try to make the audience feel something but I didn't fear for one second about Tormund or Gendry or the Hound. And those are only secondary characters.  I would have liked a moment of the white walker collaborating, like putting some of their spears together to form a bigger one to show us they are some sort of very effectice hive mind. They also should have raised the ice dragon together in some sort of ritual, at least form a circle around it. Maybe with a lot of ice zombies splintering to show us there is actually a cost to their magic. Or drag the Dragon to their stone circle which might give Jon and Dany a high value target to attack. As it was it looked as easy as raising a slightly bigger wight.

    I don't get why Brienne is send away after Arya made threats to Sansa. She is literally the only person who can protect her. Why not send Littlefinger to have him prove his loyalty for the North for all to see? He will get you a better deal anyway then Brienne.

     

    moughajcElisa
  • Ok, so my wife caved and got me to watch the episode and reading through here, i'd like to add in some general comments:

    1) it did seem weird that the army of the dead didn't have any bows/arrows to fire while waiting.  And it did seem weird that they would just sit there and wait (although, just from watching LotR, I knew that the Hound throwing rocks was going to be a bad idea).

    2) For the dragon dying, you kind of have to chalk that up to the power of the Night King and him having magical weapons.  Although, it did seem weird that he was able to bullseye 1 dragon but miss Drogon.  Although, as another posted pointed out, why wouldn't the Night King just aim for Drogon since he was just sitting there (and he's the biggest)?  Kind of a miss there.  Additionally, I wasn't a big fan of the WW army pulling the dead dragon out of the water.  I mean, the dragon must have sank pretty far and the army of the dead didn't really show off any sort of swimming skills and in order to properly chain the dragon up to where they could then pull it out of the water, I mean, they would have needed some time down there.  But once again, I'll chalk that up to them being dead and magic.  Although, I was sad to see one of the dragons die.  What I'm hoping for is that somehow the dragon can be turned back (like maybe Dany has some sort of higher connection and whatever magic the Night King used, Dany can reverse it and still keep the dragon alive).

    3) If you weren't a fan of jetpacking, then this episode must have really pissed you off and left you saying "oh come on!".  My only attempt at the timeline is that maybe it took Gendry a few hours to get back to Eastwatch and maybe a few hours for the raven to get to Dragonstone and then a few more hours for Dany to arrive, so perhaps 1 day is feasible.

    4) I was nervous that Tormund was going to get killed when he was saying "save me" and it didn't appear anyone was getting to him.  And then when Jon fell in, I didn't think he was going to get killed, but thought there was a slight chance he could be captured.  Although, I was thinking that perhaps the other dragon was going to fly back and let him ride out that way.  Should have suspected that perhaps Benjen would come back.  Although, I have no defense for why Benjen didn't get on the horse with him.  It looked big enough to carry two people.  Only guess would be that with Benjen staying behind, he bought Jon a little more time for the army to not chase him and instead attack Benjen.  Still, Benjen probably could have gotten on the horse and then when they get to the wall, he could have left and told Jon that he could not pass.

    5) Still don't know what to think about the Arya/Sansa stuff and how it's going to play out.  I thought Sansa did a good job in defending herself about the letter and it is a reasonable explanation on her part, just Arya didn't want to hear it.

    6) Had to laugh at Dany's reaction to being called "Dany" by Jon.  Can't say I was too surprised that Jon told her that he would bend (she did come to their rescue) but still, thought Jon might hold out a little longer.

    7) I enjoyed all of the small interactions between the fellowship as they were walking towards the army.  I liked how we got characters to interact with each and have small conversations.

    Overall, I enjoyed the episode and thought it was good.  I'll probably watch it again on Sunday to see if I missed anything.

    DoubleTJaimieTDani_Armindo
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