Big NBA Trade

edited August 2017 in General
Cavs have traded Kyrie to the Celtics for Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic, and the Brooklyn Nets pick (2018 unprotected 1st rd). I see a slightly better outcome for the Cavs on this one, especially with that pick.

https://www.celticsblog.com/platform/amp/2017/8/22/16187112/celtics-trade-isaiah-thomas-nets-pick-jae-crowder-ante-zizic-to-cleveland-cavs-for-kyrie-irving
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Comments

  • that pick can net them a huge player this season. if IT stays healthy and matches what he did last year then hes pretty much just as good as Kyrie. problem is hes years older. dont forget they got crowder too which is exactly the type of player you want for D against Steph and Klay. also if they dont trade the pick for in-season improvement they have a great building block in Bron leaves after this year. 
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    Celtics got hosed.
    tedk
  • I don't know what to think of this deal.  I'm not as high on Irving as other people are (I think that he's #2 player on a team, not a #1) but at this point he's better and more reliable than Thomas.  The thing is, the Cavs don't need a #1 guy, and having Thomas as your #2 (#3?) guy is more than fine because you have a strong supporting cast and as mentioned they also got Crowder who's a pretty solid defensive grinder.  The pick is a huge wild card, if it ends up being a top pick that's massive...if it ends up being like 9th or something, who cares.

    Maybe...Boston got the better player and 'won' the deal in terms of value, but the Cavs did a better job of improving their team?

  • PS - as a Raptor's fan who's in the same division as the Celts and who constantly get knocked out of the playoffs by the Cavs, I hope they somehow both lose this trade!
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    ^yall signed KJ McDaniels. My 'Rockets of the North' never disappoint.

    IT was in the MVP chatter last year and for understandable reasons. He straight up balled. I for one think he's eclipsed Kyrie. Then to get Crowder and a 1st round pick? Not sure how Celtics gave up so much when they clearly had the leverage with Kyrie forcing a trade. Ainge is all over the place. One day he's impossible, the next day he's dropping his pants.

  • NoelNoel Dallas, TX
    I'm going to miss the LeBron-Kyrie combo. I thought they played well together, but from all accounts it seems like Kyrie just wanted to get out to LeBron's shadow. I can't hate him for that, but I don't think it's the right move. Luckily for him he gets to stay in the conference and have a realistic shot of making the Finals.
  • I think Irving knows that LeBron is going to leave the Cavs and wants to get out first so he's not stuck living in Cleveland playing for a LeBron-less Cavs


  • davemcbdavemcb Melbourne
    The Celts have set themselves up for life in the east post LeBron because everyone in the league knows he wont be in Cleveland post this season. I agree they gave up too much but they are obviously taking the route of we will just score more points than you regardless of what happens on the defensive end. 

    Kyrie is like IT4 because they couldn't guard me sure I'm 6'4 but I'm slow, overweight, 34 and haven't picked up a basketball in 2 years but there are chances I could score some buckets on them (I am obviously joking here). All jokes aside the Celts will play zero defence outside of Marcus Smart they have gotten rid of Crowder and Bradley this off season and so far haven't added anymore defence in there. They could balance out IT with solid wing defenders last year and Hayward doesn't offer that sort of D.

    Celts handed over $1.5 to get 75c that Nets pick wont be number 1 but whats the chance they don't finish last and end up winning the lottery. 
  • davemcbdavemcb Melbourne
    cdrive said:

    ^yall signed KJ McDaniels. My 'Rockets of the North' never disappoint.

    IT was in the MVP chatter last year and for understandable reasons. He straight up balled. I for one think he's eclipsed Kyrie. Then to get Crowder and a 1st round pick? Not sure how Celtics gave up so much when they clearly had the leverage with Kyrie forcing a trade. Ainge is all over the place. One day he's impossible, the next day he's dropping his pants.

    This all started with the Dream trade back in the day although I still don't believe that ever happened. 

    We also seem to fleece the Kings from time to time so lots of ex rockets on the Kings as well
  • edited August 2017

    Here's some things:

    IT is like 5'8" or 5'9" and is a HUGE liability on defense because of his height.  You saw in the playoffs that the Celtics had to hide him because they didn't want the other team going iso on IT or doing pick n rolls and forcing IT to guard someone he has no business in guarding.  Kyrie might not be a defensive player but just from a height stand point, he's an upgrade.  The other fact, IT is a free agent after this season and after having a very friendly team contract, he wants to get PAID!  The Celtics didn't want to pay a player of his size around 30mil for like 5 years.  There is a track record of players IT size not fairing so well the longer they're in the league.  However, saying this, IT is a hell of a worker and has a ton of heart and he will be missed in Boston for those reasons.  But in terms of offense, Kyrie will easily slide into IT's role and doesn't have to worry as much about getting his shot blocked when he's driving in the paint.  Plus IT we don't know to what extent IT's hip is actually in.  He didn't get surgery, but doesn't mean he won't need it.

    Crowder, another worker and can play some defense.  However, his shooting ability is really hit or miss.  If he's not hot, then you're screaming "NNNOOOO" anytime he's putting up a shot.  He could end up being a Tony Allen type of guy.  Which, don't get me wrong, is a very nice piece to have on a team, but at the same point, you're going to struggle if you're relying on Crowder to hit 3s consistently.

    Zizic, I was curious to see.  Sounded like there are some good things about him, but obviously, until you're in the league, you never know.

    As for the Brooklyn pick, that easily can be hit or miss.  Brooklyn is probably better than they were last year so there's no guarantee that their pick even ends up in the top 3.

    Brad Stevens.  Just look at what Stevens can do for players.  It will be curious to see IT away from Stevens as Stevens does have a knack for making his players better (or maybe putting them in better positions to succeed).

    So to me, this deal hinges on 2 things.  1) if Cleveland ends up signing IT to an extension or after the season (who knows if they'll want to pay him) and who knows how healthy IT is and 2) if the Brooklyn pick ends up in the top 3 or gets #1.  If the Brooklyn pick is like 6 or 7 next season and IT leaves Cleveland, can you really say that the Celts got hosed or lost this trade?  However, if the Brooklyn pick is like #1-3 and IT is the same player as last year and stays in Cleveland and Zizic is good and Crowder is his usual self, then yeah I think Boston overpaid.  But, you can't fully judge this trade until after the season plays out and we can see how things unfold.

    *edit- forgot to mention, Kyrie is younger and has more years on his deal, so another advantage of not having to pay him a max contract right away while getting a younger player.

  • edited August 2017
    The Cavs basically set themselves up for a future with or without LBJ. I believe both Crowder and Zizc can expire in the 2018/2019 seasons. Zizic is young and not a horrible backup to Thompson/Love. The pick itself could be used in a trade later in the season OR be used to pick up a young player (most likely somewhere in top 10) in the draft.

    I like Kyrie, but this season will be a test of how much he's learned and grown. The Cabs struggled until LBJ got back so Kyrie will need to step it up to another level. I think he has the potential to do great things, hopefully this was the right move for him.
  • I like Kyrie but Celtics gave up to much. Kyrie was out regardless, Celtics didn't need to give up the Brooklyn pick. If Thomas is healthy Cleveland could be in even better shape against the Warriors if they swap the pick for something else. Warriors obviously still big favorites tho.
  • So with the season more than half over, does anyone want to re-evaluate this?  Crowder, so far has been a huge disappointment to what the Cavs thought they were getting.  IT clearly isn't the same player that he was last year since returning and who knows how much longer it will take for him to get back to that level (if possible).  Meanwhile, Kyrie has been awesome and even has played decent enough defense.  The Brooklyn pick is still up in the air for where it's going to fall but still no guarantee it's going to be top 3 or top 5.  So, I think maybe you give the Cavs a C, maybe C- for this trade (with me giving them credit for getting the Brooklyn pick) and you give the Celtics an A or A+ for getting Kyrie (even with the Celtics currently struggling).  Now, maybe things change as the playoffs come and Crowder and IT step it up (assuming that IT is still on the team and not traded away) and then this trade pays off for the Cavs.  But so, this looks like the Celtics won this trade in a landslide.
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX

    This necro bump had me all excited like something just happened.
    KingKobraCretanBullChinaskiNoelTravis
  • Yeah, sorry for that.  Didn't pick the name of this thread.  Just wanted to bring up this trade again because I thought majority of people thought that the Celtics way overpaid and after more than half the season, it appears Ainge totally got the better of the Cavs on this one.
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    cdrive said:

    This necro bump had me all excited like something just happened.
    haha same here!
  • Yeah, sorry for that.  Didn't pick the name of this thread.  Just wanted to bring up this trade again because I thought majority of people thought that the Celtics way overpaid and after more than half the season, it appears Ainge totally got the better of the Cavs on this one.
    No, but a new thread might have been better. It’s been half a season and really who’s to say how things turn out. Early on it looks like the Celts got the better deal, time will tell if it plays out the same. 
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    Big news guys- I'm joining the Cleveland Cavaliers. They decided they needed a permanent benchwarmer so LeBron could get even more minutes. Look for me on your TV coming soon!
    ChinaskiDummyNoelKingKobra
  • I guess you could say the trade isn't looking great for them, but they didn't make the move because they really wanted Kyrie gone but because they had to move him. Regular season games don't amount to much. Let's see how things go in the playoffs to determine if the trade was passable. 
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    what if..

    'Leonard is unhappy in San Antonio and the Spurs are unhappy with him, according to a report written by ESPN ’s Adrian Wojnarowski on Monday. Wojnarowski described how Leonard’s recovery from a right quadriceps injury is creating a “chilling effect” between the 26-year-old and the Spurs coaching staff. “Multiple sources describe Leonard and his camp as 'distant' and 'disconnected' from the organization,” Wojnarowski wrote.'
  • NoelNoel Dallas, TX
    edited January 25
    @Chinaski I’m intrigued with this report. He’s more than welcome to join my Mavs but I’m sure he’ll go to a contender or fringe contender. If he does leave.
  • FernNYC17FernNYC17 New York, NY
    LBJ has himself to blame. as long as he doesn't sign an extension in Clev. no player is going there and the Organization cant make a trade for a player that also wont commit because LBJ hasn't. if LBJ has signed long term in Cleveland Kyrie probably would have stayed and he GM would have had a better shot of trading for a good player. They would be crazy to trade that BKYLN pick. it's the only chip they have if LBJ leaves.
  • FernNYC17 said:
    LBJ has himself to blame. as long as he doesn't sign an extension in Clev. no player is going there and the Organization cant make a trade for a player that also wont commit because LBJ hasn't. if LBJ has signed long term in Cleveland Kyrie probably would have stayed and he GM would have had a better shot of trading for a good player. They would be crazy to trade that BKYLN pick. it's the only chip they have if LBJ leaves.
    Ehhh I would say LBJ is keeping his team honest at the same time keeping his options open. He maxes out his money if he signs short term, due to the way things are negotiated. I don’t think Kyrie would have stayed period. 
  • edited February 8

    So, now this thread works on 2 levels.  1) It appears that the Cavs are trading IT and Channing Frye for Jordan Clarkson and Larry Nance Jr and 2) So, now in hindsight, the Cavs traded Kyrie Irving for Crowder (although, now it looks like Crowder is gone in a different trade for Cleveland that gets them Rodney Hood), Zizic, Nets 1st rounder, 2nd round pick, and Jordan Clarkson and Larry Nance Jr.

    Also, kind of funny with the Cavs trading IT is now all of that talk about the IT tribute video happening on Sunday at Paul Pierce jersey retirement day goes out the window since IT won't be there.  Plus the Lakers have already gone to Boston, so any IT tribute will have to wait until next year.  Ultimately, feel bad for IT since that guy has a lot of heart and toughness.  Hoping he's able to get back to the level that he displayed in Boston.

    Also, very interesting that it looks like Cleveland is trading Wade back to Miami.  Wonder what Lebron thought of that and if that means that after this season, Lebron is definitely out of Cleveland.  With all Clevelands trades today, will have to see what their roster looks like.....

  • Wasn't IT a potential MVP last season? I know size and lack durability makes him liability, but wow what a fall.
  • IT definitely was worthy of the MVP discussion last year but only he really knows how fully healed his hip is or if he's actually capable of becoming that player again.  Obviously, IT will believe in his ability and for him, I hope that's the case.  Either way, this year has probably cost him a lot of money unless he takes a 1 yr deal to prove he's back at full force.
  • I missed all of the action today I'm I'm struggling to get caught up....in short...everyone in the NBA got traded to and away from Cleveland? :)

    Chinaskiakritenbrink
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    I missed all of the action today I'm I'm struggling to get caught up....in short...everyone in the NBA got traded to and away from Cleveland? :)

    lemme catch you up buddy. basically when LBJ feels FOMO on being relevant and winning he needs to do something. ‘i’m open to meeting with Warriors’ didn’t work. so plan B. 
    akritenbrinkCretanBull
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    New roster: Lebron plays alone while a baker's dozen of 12-year-olds watch on the bench.
    ChinaskiCretanBull
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    Houston stood pat. I’m cool with it. 1/2 game back from Dubs, tied in the loss column, and carrying the 2-1 tiebreaker.  Poised for LeBron to Houston. Funny thing is....might not even want LeBron if Houston goes all the way this year.  Weird to describe how that feels.  Too good to possibly not need LeBron who has played maybe the greatest season statistically of his career this year.  But man what he did 2 nights ago...that would fit so nicely with Beard and Point God. But to never see it would mean something greater happened. 


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