Mother! (Spoilers!)

aberry89aberry89 California
edited September 16 in Movies
I just walked out of one of most incredible, intense movie experience of my life. I never saw a trailer for this movie, and it was great to go in knowing next to nothing. This was marketed (as I saw later) as a horror movie, and while this is MOST DEFINITELY a horror movie. It's not a horror movie if you know what I mean ;)

1) If you are a fan of the Leftovers - drop what you are doing now, see this fucking movie. (Trust me when I say, Damon Lindelof must have been furiously masturbating throughout this entire film.)

Oooooh boy I wanna discuss so bad, but if you go into this movie knowing nothing AND PLEASE DO, the mystery of what story is being told here is so much more satisfying. My sister and I, were literally holy shitting ourselves talking about it after as all the details and symbolism fell into place. SO right now, this thread is devoted to getting people to see this movie, maybe we can talk spoilers after its been out more than a day!
darthcaedus1138picorock80russkelly
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Comments

  • Currently listening to the spoiler review of the first run podcast. I'm on the fence still of going to the theatre to see it.

    In the non-spoiler part, Jim and A. Ron describe the movie as very frantic and verging on non-sensical. As a comment on that, Aronofsky was recently on the Tim Ferriss podcast, and described the script writing process as something like a "single 18 hour manic session"

    https://tim.blog/2017/09/09/darren-aronofsky/

    This might help explain the film heh
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    edited September 15
    I'm intrigued by this movie. @aberry89's review of it sounds incredible! I just listened to the first part of the guy's review but I still know NOTHING about this movie. Which I guess is a good thing but would it have killed them to give a little of the plot?? Ha. I don't want spoilers but a LITTLE synopsis would be nice! But I am sufficiently intrigued and I think this may be my Sunday afternoon.
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England
    It's crazy how much this movie is dividing opinion. I hated it.

    At least I think I hated it, my mind is still in the what the fuck was that phase.

    All I know at this point is that I would be happy never to see any close ups of Jennifer Lawrence looking confused ever again.
    darwinfeeshy
  • The Plot summary in the Wikipedia article uses links as an interpretation of the plot:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother!

    I.E. Bardem's character is God, Lawrence's is Mother Nature etc.


  • aberry89aberry89 California
    Did you grow up with any religion, any Christianity? I feel those that didn't will be so confused by the end of just wtf they just saw, they wont really like it. 

    Obviously if you don't like Arronoffsky's style - you dont like it. It reminded me a lot of black Swan. I think the choice to stay so close to Mother is really important though. Wee needed to be completely within her headspace.

    darthcaedus1138picorock80darwinfeeshyrusskelly
  • aberry89aberry89 California

    The Plot summary in the Wikipedia article uses links as an interpretation of the plot:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother!

    I.E. Bardem's character is God, Lawrence's is Mother Nature etc.


    I really hope you saw the movie beofore reading the whole plot! You are ruining the experience for yourself!

    picorock80
  • aberry89aberry89 California

    Currently listening to the spoiler review of the first run podcast. I'm on the fence still of going to the theatre to see it.

    In the non-spoiler part, Jim and A. Ron describe the movie as very frantic and verging on non-sensical. As a comment on that, Aronofsky was recently on the Tim Ferriss podcast, and described the script writing process as something like a "single 18 hour manic session"

    https://tim.blog/2017/09/09/darren-aronofsky/


    This might help explain the film heh

    This movie was written in 5 days - it's an emotional outpouring of ideas. I feel like "The Fountain" is the slow, meticulous, mediation on simular themes. This is like the other side of the coin. People have called it messy, and yeah. It kinda is. But it felt raw and real, and I kinda feel like it needed to be a little messy. 

    darthcaedus1138
  • the way that Jim and A. Ron talked about it, I figured its going to be super confusing no matter how much I read about it heh
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited September 15
    After some discussion after the movie, I really wasn't confused at all. Once all the religious allegorys drops into place, it's actually pretty on the nose. It may not make sense in the moment - but I am still thinking of little things of the movie that now hold so much resonence that I didnt understand when I first watched. 

     But a christan allegory is just a starting answer. It by no means need to be where you end. I  have heard some pretty intresting reviews from people that have  zero religions background and what they bring to it is so intrestig.

    darthcaedus1138picorock80Joe_Bear
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    This sounds like it could've been the best movie I could've seen this year, but it got spoiled.
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    kingbee67 said:

    This sounds like it could've been the best movie I could've seen this year, but it got spoiled.

    Oh no! By this thread, I really didnt want it to. :(

    BTW, great movies you cant spoiled. You will still enjoying knwoing what you know. You just wont get the satifaction of patting yourelf on the back for figuring it out yourself. At the end of hte day, it's not a twist you need to figure it out, and if you do, its ruined. not at all.

    picorock80
  • It's interesting to me that my background is so heavily influenced by religion and yet I didn't make much of the religious connections until you brought it up.  I viewed it more from the creative humanist angle.  I suppose I should be happy about that as I'm sure it represents a welcome change in my thinking patterns.
    FernNYC17
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited September 15
    *SPOILERS*

    I think it was at this point where my brain nudged me, and I was like hmmm something's familar here....


    image

    image

    When the two brothers were fighting, and then the one killed the other - with a blunt object, to the head.- that's when stuff started falling into place and I was like...oh shit now I know what's going on. I mean, i could go on, and on and on about all the allegories but i don't want to spoil people's enjoyment.

    But a creative humanist view works JUST as well. There is no right answer to what this film means, there is just "you're" answer. That's what i love so much about Mother! Everyone's going to bring current and past mindsets to this film. My past is Christianity, and although no longer religious, that was where my brain went i guess :)

    CecilyJaimieTdarthcaedus1138picorock80Joe_Bear
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England
    edited September 15
    aberry89 said:

    Did you grow up with any religion, any Christianity? I feel those that didn't will be so confused by the end of just wtf they just saw, they wont really like it. 


    Obviously if you don't like Arronoffsky's style - you dont like it. It reminded me a lot of black Swan. I think the choice to stay so close to Mother is really important though. Wee needed to be completely within her headspace.

    @aberry89

    Born and raised Roman Catholic, Sunday schooled by nuns, all that bullshit. Haven't practised since I was old enough to make my own decisions though. :-)

    Funnily enough I love Black Swan (and The Wrestler too), but I thought Noah was utter garbage, so Aronofsky can be very hit and miss for me.

    I wasn't particularly confused by what I was seeing, started to understand what Aronofsky was intending to do after the really on the nose Cain and Abel stuff.

    I just hated the viewing experience, what you found to be intense I found to be a boring, repetitive first two thirds followed by a batshit, deliberately disorienting final third.

    Spoiler......

    By the time we got around to the baby scene, I was completely over the movie, but I won't deny that it is probably one of the most affecting and disturbing things I've seen in a movie in recent years. Maybe ever?
    aberry89
  • CecilyCecily Cincinnati
    I wish I could have joined this podcast!  I think Bardem is God (credited as HIM), Lawrence is Gaia/Earth/Mother Nature, Harris and Pfeiffer (credited as Man and Woman) were Adam and Eve - and you got the Cain and Abel part.  The allegory for the creator (as in maker or artist) is in there too.  Seeing your comment @aberry89, it makes sense that there was just a vomiting of strong ideas on to the page.

    I think that what he "coughed" up was part of a rib, because HIM covers his back near the rib area?  Whatever, it came out some way - once the rib was offered, Woman appeared the next day.
    amyja89aberry89darthcaedus1138picorock80Joe_Bearrusskelly
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited September 15
    Cecily said:

    I wish I could have joined this podcast!  I think Bardem is God (credited as HIM), Lawrence is Gaia/Earth/Mother Nature, Harris and Pfeiffer (credited as Man and Woman) were Adam and Eve - and you got the Cain and Abel part.  The allegory for the creator (as in maker or artist) is in there too.  Seeing your comment @aberry89, it makes sense that there was just a vomiting of strong ideas on to the page.


    I think that what he "coughed" up was part of a rib, because HIM covers his back near the rib area?  Whatever, it came out some way - once the rib was offered, Woman appeared the next day.
    I wish you had been too! Ohh!  A rib! That's super interesting! That's been the only part I really couldn't get a handle on. It looked a bit like a heart to me when I first saw it. But your absolutely right! :)  I literally cannot wait to see the movie again to pick up on the stuff I missed in the first half. 

    The most interesting detail to ruminate on for me is the blood stain. How that initial murder just stays with the house and infects it, seeps down into the foundation. And the juxtaposition of it being the baby's room. Almost like mother earth is trying to balance the new life with death. But it a way, that murder ends up being a key to how she will go on to bring all of it down. (the blood drips not only forming a doorway into the oil drum room. Almost like the blood is one of keys to destruction. And Adam brought in the lighter, the other key to light it.)

    Cecilypicorock80Joe_Bear
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited September 16

    Initial thoughts (haven't read comments)...


    After I saw this movie, I thought, "You know, Jaimie, you've spoiled yourself on movies in some ways. You've seen too many." Because this is a movie I think I would have enjoyed were I a little less exposed. (And I'm by no means very exposed... I'm still trying to get to my second Tarkovsky for instance.) 

    My experience with the 1st half of this movie was wonder. "Where is this going?" I thought excitedly. The momentum was so deliciously Aranofsky, and it was great to catch all the nods, like how the first line in a movie called "mother[!]" is "Baby?" I thought it rewarded critical viewing.

    My experience with the 2nd half of this movie was exhaustion. "Where is this going?" I thought, well, exhaustedly. 

    I don't think it's valid to criticize this movie because it has so many possible interpretations (and Mark Kermode called it a "grotesque black comedy allegory parable" lol). I don't even think I can say the movie is bad. I can only think that it didn't make me feel much more than frustration. Which was certainly its intent. Once I figured out one of the interpretations (creator/muse, and before Kristen Wiig called her "Inspiration!" thankyouverymuch), the plot points became very paint-by-number. No surprises. Of course, she'll die. Of course, she's not real. Of course, her baby is going to be the diamond (wrong, but only because I jumped the gun), of course she'll turn into the diamond, of course this will end in the cellar because of the McGuffin blood door. And this'll all just start over.

    It was interesting following the progressions of J-Law's hairstyles though. Good grief, when she had her husband to herself, they were gorge. 

    I don't think I will ever watch this again.
    picorock80
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited September 16

    Replying to comments....


    @aberry89 - I'd actually say this movie is more for fans of LOST than The Leftovers. There are just too many things happening. The Leftovers was pretty explicit about what it meant.

    @realityzealot - Re: the scriptwriting process, oh man, this felt so written. "Um, the house needs to be burned at the end, let's bring in some foreshadowing so it'll feel inevitable, uh, yeah, okay, so Ed Harris also wants to smoke in the house, and he has a lighter, yeah. Oh, and the serum she drinks is the same color as the paint, yeah, because she's the house." As if the fucking cold open of a woman burning wasn't enough. 

    @aberry89 - Holy shit, how the man, his wife and 2 sons fit into the story of the artist and his muse made no sense to me, but it is totally peddling the religious angle! (And I was raised extremely fundamentalist evangelical Christian.) Fall of man, the need to spill divine blood, etc. I know you love this movie, but this just makes me think, What a mess.

    Oh, and FWIW, I thought Javier Bardem was toying with making Ed Harris his muse, but his heart was just a heart, and it didn't work. Maybe because Ed Harris didn't love him like Jennifer Lawrence? .... sadly, I don't really care. 

    @A_Ron_Hubbard - I absolve you from disliking this movie. You can keep your movie cred with me. ;) I'd give it a 5/10. 

    @Jim - No discussion of how you lurked in A.Ron's theater without his knowledge? That's creepy, and I'm calling it out. Jk, jk. He came in late, etc. 
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited September 16
    I think your right on all your points. Even if i felt differently about the movie as a whole. :)  In an interview Aronofsky said this story came out of a lot of frustration and it is intended (i mean obviously ;) to be a harrowing film to watch.

    I said earlier on this thread, that this is oldest story ever told. It's a parable. It follows almost every creation myth known to man. I really don't believe the intent of this movie was to surprise you with some clever story you have never seen before. It's Aronofsky's take on that which is so inate to use humans. Birth, Life, Destruction, Rebirth. With a critical eye toward how people misuse mythology, religion and the earth. I have a real soft spot for religious allegory, parables, or mythology translated in film, so what I may revel in you might find tiresome :) Or perhaps the style of which it is present is just not for you - totally understandable. He certainly as a very, very viseral way of using the camera. 

    And yes, most Aronofsky movies I can take only take a couple times a year. (except for black swan, i could watch that wherever, whenever!)  Hey, his films are pretty damn heavy - they are like those massages where the masues beats the shit out of you - it's a violent cleanse. 

    picorock80Joe_Bear
  • Just saw it. Pretty good. I'll never know otherwise of course, but I feel that the viewing was improved by having a good idea what the general scheme was.

    The last act was amazing actually.
    darthcaedus1138
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    aberry89 said:

    I think your right on all your points. Even if i felt differently about the movie as a whole. :)  In an interview Aronofsky said this story came out of a lot of frustration and it is intended (i mean obviously ;) to be a harrowing film to watch.


    I said earlier on this thread, that this is oldest story ever told. It's a parable. It follows almost every creation myth known to man. I really don't believe the intent of this movie was to surprise you with some clever story you have never seen before. It's Aronofsky's take on that which is so inate to use humans. Birth, Life, Destruction, Rebirth. With a critical eye toward how people misuse mythology, religion and the earth. I have a real soft spot for religious allegory, parables, or mythology translated in film, so what I may revel in you might find tiresome :) Or perhaps the style of which it is present is just not for you - totally understandable. He certainly as a very, very viseral way of using the camera. 

    And yes, most Aronofsky movies I can take only take a couple times a year. (except for black swan, i could watch that wherever, whenever!)  Hey, his films are pretty damn heavy - they are like those massages where the masues beats the shit out of you - it's a violent cleanse. 

    Oh yeah, I could watch Black Swan again right now. His style doesn't bother me. And I normally love religious themes -- I enjoyed Noah a lot! -- but like I said, I wasn't picking any of that up. I'm a writer so that's where I went. :)
  • The women locked up in cages, teeth examined... Brutal
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    My sister went to see it again with a friend and she said the audience laughed throughout. And someone said, "well, that was two hours of my life I'll never get back!" when it ended.  XD

    There is actually a wonderful tragedy of a bunch of people laughing at what's happening on screen and missing the implications of this parable. I mean it's like...well, of course. Of course -_- I enjoy that in a Rust Cohle sort of way :)

    (btw, i am NOT throwing shade on people that completely understood the film and just didn't like it. More those that don't want to or haven't been taught how to watch movies that are beyond disposable entertainment.)
  • edited September 17
    I appreciate the interesting take on the story of God, nature, and man. I think it's pretty novel to see things from Mother Nature's perspective. It's very similar to The Giving Tree.

    I think it was a overindulgent at times (that scene of humanity's madness went on for a few minutes too long, with the SWAT teams and all that), but I can forgive that for how thematically strong this film is.
  • aberry89aberry89 California

    I appreciate the interesting take on the story of God, nature, and man. I think it's pretty novel to see things from Mother Nature's perspective. It's very similar to The Giving Tree.


    I think it was a overindulgent at times (that scene of humanity's madness went on for a few minutes too long, with the SWAT teams and all that), but I can forgive that for how thematically strong this film is.

    I agree that the 3rd act hysteria went a bit long. Although i realize he is trying to cover thousands of years of turmoil over religion and all facets of life it has had an effect on.  I bet he had to edit himself not to go on and on! 

  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited September 17
    @aberry89 - I saw "It" tonight and this is the kind of trailer for "mother!" that ran in front of it.



    Instead of playing up the critical reaction though... in the same fucking style with the voiceover and quotes... the trailer was saying how scary and disturbing the movie was, followed by, literally, the voiceover saying, "Go to the box office now, after this movie, and buy your tickets." ROFL Someone laughed out loud at that too.

    The trailers are drawing the wrong crowds, I think. What a whacky marketing campaign.
  • edited September 17
    So.... what was that gold stuff J-Law drank (and quit drinking once she got pregnant)?
  • Heard it's one big knock against Christianity. Umm, no thanks.
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    dolphin said:

    Heard it's one big knock against Christianity. Umm, no thanks.

    Just saw it. I'm an atheist/agnostic and I wouldn't say that at all. Possibly a knock on humanity, but I think it's pretty non-judgemental. I suppose if you believe in an all powerful god who's able to control everything, it goes against that a bit.

    I think it's likely better if you go in knowing it's a Christian allegory. I didn't realize until my wife told me after it was over. Once you know what's up, everything makes sense. I keep thinking of new things and going "ohhhhh!"

  • aberry89aberry89 California

    So.... what was that gold stuff J-Law drank (and quit drinking once she got pregnant)?

    That is the one thing I CANNOT figure out...

    I feel the color itself is important. When she is plastering that one wall, she tries a brown/grey on the wall and decides it's not right. You see her touch the wall, a close up of the heart, and then she mixes in yellow and the color is right. I have no idea....

    (does make me think of the juxtaposition of her gentle, measured way she renovated the hosue compared to the people just breaking out paint and painting haphazzarly  XD  Humans just build with no forethought of their construction will effect the rest of the house)
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