My thoughts on GOT Bald Move (mild book spoilers)

I've just finished up listening to all of the GOT coverage by Bald Move. I think I started about a year ago but it was a lot of listening.
I have agreed and enjoyed most of the content.  I had lots of comments which I probably said aloud in my car but have never written in about since I was listening generally well after the podcast aired. A couple of things kept coming up which irk me though.

1a. First of all A-Rons continued fondness for Lady Stoneheart and hate of the Iron Islands. I listened to most of the Game of Thrones via audio book, I might of read the first, I don't remember anymore. I also disliked the Iron Islands quite a bit but I think it was mostly due to the portrayal of The Damp Hair character. His  voice and dialogue was terrible but overall their story was satisfying.

1b. When the Lady Stoneheart part came up I thought oh FFS not another resurrection. It completely detracts from the red wedding. I was so glad they did not include it in the show since it's probably my most hated part of the books so far. The whole time it seemed like a whole lot of nothing, leading to no where. Which as it turns out is apparently the case since they left it out of the show. Yet A-Ron constantly banged on about including it.

2. Jim keeps going on about not caring what's in the books, what the differences are etc. Says he is never going to read them for some unknown reason.
I have an issue with that because he does in fact talk frequently about reading books including having an audible subscription. The GOT books whilst not the most well written books around are still very good. Also the books include far more political intrigue, scheming etc than the show. They also contain far less (so far) fantasy than the show. In fact aside from a couple of dragons I would say the magic in the books is very subtle, there aren't any wizards shooting fire balls, or bringing lightning down on people.
It just makes no sense to of taken this weird stance against the books when he clearly likes the content and the books are more down your alley than the show is.

Now I wonder what is going to happen to most of the podcasters around. It seems almost all of them have names related to GOT, Cast of Kings, Storm of Spoilers to name a few. I have never listened to another podcast and probably won't either. The simple fact is there aren't any other shows as well done and complicated as GOT which leaves me no desire to listen to someone talk about it. Westworld was pretty good but not Podcast listen worthy. I'd dare say most podcasters are going the way of the Tasmanian Tiger.

Anyway that's my 2c. Hopefully you are able to keep up the good work after GOT next or next next year. I'll be sure to tune back in if another show comes out that is podcast worthy.
GredalBee

Comments

  • I too was reluctant to read the books, mostly because I had heard that they were far harsher than the show.  But I decided to go ahead after season 7 and I'm working on Storm of Swords now.  I haven't gotten to the Reek stuff yet, but so far it seems fine.  And I'm really enjoying the additional insight I'm getting. 

    I don't want to speculate on Jim's perspective but it may be that he's overwhelmed with everything else that is going on and just doesn't want to take the time to read something when he already knows the story.  This is just my take from listening to Lunch with J&A - he seems spread more thin than A.Ron does.
  • I don't envy Aron's position as book guy on the cast. I don't think he's read the books in a while - so that's a tough deal to be the one who is in charge of all the book stuff. 

    As an Iron Islands fan I do find myself getting frustrated when Aron continually brushes off the Greyjoy plots as nonsense and non-important. Some of those chapters are so fantastic. Aron loves sailing shit, it seems like they would be right up his alley. To me, I love the ASOIAF world so much that when it began to expand in AFFC, I was super excited to be getting all these new POVs from other houses. And honestly, in AFFC i couldn't wait to leave Brienne's aimless wandering and get back to the Greyjoys and Martells.
  • I think Jim would read the books if he didn’t think it would take him like a year to catch up. It’s more of a daunting task than something he wouldn’t enjoy. 
  • A.Ron definitely has the harder job on Game of Thrones and not putting myself in the same position of having to remember not only the story in the show but the differences from the story the books are telling is the main reason I don't read them.  I just don't have a good enough memory for that, especially when we're covering 10+ shows a year and I'm expected to have detailed knowledge of each one.  The less I have to remember, the better.

    I've seen a lot of the podcasts that have GoT-themed names doing other stuff in their main GoT feed.  The merits of doing that are debatable.  You could say that it turns off the people who are new to the podcast and looking for GoT stuff.  You could also say that it keeps at least some portion of listeners engaged in the off season. 

    Which is better?  I don't know empirically but my mindset is to set expectations and deliver on them which doesn't jive with those off-topic podcasts.  The name of the podcast is the entry point for 99% of people who would listen so if you're not delivering on the expectations set by the name you're failing, imo.
    KingKobraMelonuskDeeDaveyMacjtmy92Phoebes89akritenbrink
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    edited October 2017
    I dunno man, I just always assumed it was cool if I had my own personal opinions on stuff and shared them on the pod.  Other people agree or disagree, send me feedback, and then we talk about it.  It seems to work out okay, haha.

    As far as me loving sailing and the Iron Island chapters, maybe that's one of the reasons I don't like them.  Pirates are assholes, pretty much without exception. The Greyjoys certainly are not that exception, and GRRM can barely write compelling and coherent land based action. I don't think this is a controversial opinion, but writing action is not his forte, even his best sword duels are known more for their badass dialog and shocking deaths than for their artistry.  Now, I can tell you that he doesn't know anything about sailing or naval tactics, so it kind of comes off as simple and boring.  Two wooden planks full of assholes, with men fighting on them.  It doesn't hurt that my favorite book series of all time has what are widely acclaimed as the best, most compelling, and historically accurate sailing action that has ever been put on paper.  But, that's just my opinion.

    I'm surprised you think I'm a Stoneheart diehard.  I think she would have been a cool visual many seasons ago, but I've been whatev on her for a while now.
    KingKobra
  • gguenotgguenot CA
    edited October 2017

    I'm surprised you think I'm a Stoneheart diehard.  I think she would have been a cool visual many seasons ago, but I've been whatev on her for a while now.
    Sounds like ARons... pumping the breaks on Lady Stoneheart B) YEAHHHHHHH!

    ... I’ll see myself out

    (glad you’re safe)
    GredalBeeMurderbear

  • I'm surprised you think I'm a Stoneheart diehard.  I think she would have been a cool visual many seasons ago, but I've been whatev on her for a while now.
    I wish I had the time to go back and write down every time you talked about her.

    gguenot said:

    Sounds like ARons... pumping the breaks on Lady Stoneheart B) YEAHHHHHHH!

    ... I’ll see myself out

    (glad you’re safe)
    Perfect.  ;)
  • It's a pain listening to the old game of thrones podcasts (I just did season 5) and having no one to talk to about it! I don't think Jim and Aron are likely to be interested in someone furiously or enthusiastically emailing them about a point they made 3 years ago. 

    I did did have a question about something from the latest podcast though. Aron what exactly is this 'democracy' we are going to get at the end of GOT going to look like? You say it won't be full representative democracy because that would be ridiculous (agreed) but isn't any plausibly medieval form of democracy just going to look a bit unsatisfactory and non-radical from a modern perspective? I think it would be better to have some form of more just or fair society at the end of GoT rather than a more democratic one. That's more in keeping with what Dany is already doing, for instance. She is making society more just (abolishing slavery) but she's not making it more democratic.
  • I've just finished up listening to all of the GOT coverage by Bald Move. I think I started about a year ago but it was a lot of listening.
    I have agreed and enjoyed most of the content.  I had lots of comments which I probably said aloud in my car but have never written in about since I was listening generally well after the podcast aired. A couple of things kept coming up which irk me though.

    1a. First of all A-Rons continued fondness for Lady Stoneheart and hate of the Iron Islands. I listened to most of the Game of Thrones via audio book, I might of read the first, I don't remember anymore. I also disliked the Iron Islands quite a bit but I think it was mostly due to the portrayal of The Damp Hair character. His  voice and dialogue was terrible but overall their story was satisfying.

    1b. When the Lady Stoneheart part came up I thought oh FFS not another resurrection. It completely detracts from the red wedding. I was so glad they did not include it in the show since it's probably my most hated part of the books so far. The whole time it seemed like a whole lot of nothing, leading to no where. Which as it turns out is apparently the case since they left it out of the show. Yet A-Ron constantly banged on about including it.

    2. Jim keeps going on about not caring what's in the books, what the differences are etc. Says he is never going to read them for some unknown reason.
    I have an issue with that because he does in fact talk frequently about reading books including having an audible subscription. The GOT books whilst not the most well written books around are still very good. Also the books include far more political intrigue, scheming etc than the show. They also contain far less (so far) fantasy than the show. In fact aside from a couple of dragons I would say the magic in the books is very subtle, there aren't any wizards shooting fire balls, or bringing lightning down on people.
    It just makes no sense to of taken this weird stance against the books when he clearly likes the content and the books are more down your alley than the show is.

    Now I wonder what is going to happen to most of the podcasters around. It seems almost all of them have names related to GOT, Cast of Kings, Storm of Spoilers to name a few. I have never listened to another podcast and probably won't either. The simple fact is there aren't any other shows as well done and complicated as GOT which leaves me no desire to listen to someone talk about it. Westworld was pretty good but not Podcast listen worthy. I'd dare say most podcasters are going the way of the Tasmanian Tiger.

    Anyway that's my 2c. Hopefully you are able to keep up the good work after GOT next or next next year. I'll be sure to tune back in if another show comes out that is podcast worthy.
    Obviously this is quite a while since the original post but figured I'd throw in my opinion on the original posters thoughts on podcasts after game of thrones.  There are several out there that run content that is not Game of Thrones under their Game of Thrones podcast but Bald Move is not one of those.  This is just me personally but I've gone back and rewatched different TV shows just to listen to the Bald Move content regarding them and have even started watching shows just because of the praise they give (cough The Leftovers cough cough).  

    I don't think anything regarding TV/Movie podcasts are going to change once Game of Thrones is over.  We're in the "Golden Age of TV" and I think there's plenty of content out there that is podcast worthy.  At work I listen to various TV show and movie podcasts pretty much all day and that's not going to change at all once Game of Thrones is over.  

    Although I don't listen to a ton of other podcasts, Bald Move is hands down my favorite group of podcasters and I will continue to follow their content on the majority of the shows/movies that they cover.  
  • I dunno man, I just always assumed it was cool if I had my own personal opinions on stuff and shared them on the pod.  Other people agree or disagree, send me feedback, and then we talk about it.  It seems to work out okay, haha.


    C'mon, man. You know the rules. You're very much entitled to your own opinions so long as they weave nicely into my opinions.

    Moreso, what I wanted to comment on was about reading books after seeing shows/movies about the material. I can't do it, personally. I am not at all saying that it jives with Jim's reasoning (and apparently it doesn't since he has already commented) but once I know the story I just don't have the patience to read the book version unless there are really significant differences to be found. Even then, immersing yourself in a book is such an investment, it just doesn't feel worth it when you already know all of the bones. I remember trying to pick up the Harry Potter books after seeing the movies and it just felt like rehashing a bunch of stuff I already knew. Even when there are differences, are those differences worth the investment with so many other books to read? Just my take, for whatever it's worth.
  • @Travis. I totally get this.  I read the first couple GOT books between seasons 2 and 3 and definitely found parts if it tedious.  I managed to push through because I really wanted to find out what happened next, but I can totally understand why people don't.

    As far as Harry Potter goes, it bums me out a little bit when people watch the movies before reading the books, because reading those books was such a special experience for me growing up, and I can't even imagine trying to read them after having every major plot point spoiled by the movies.  Maybe with enough time you can forget the movies enough to enjoy the books, but I understand that's a big commitment, especially if you're not an avid reader in the first place.
    Travis
  • Shum said:
    @Travis. I totally get this.  I read the first couple GOT books between seasons 2 and 3 and definitely found parts if it tedious.  I managed to push through because I really wanted to find out what happened next, but I can totally understand why people don't.

    As far as Harry Potter goes, it bums me out a little bit when people watch the movies before reading the books, because reading those books was such a special experience for me growing up, and I can't even imagine trying to read them after having every major plot point spoiled by the movies.  Maybe with enough time you can forget the movies enough to enjoy the books, but I understand that's a big commitment, especially if you're not an avid reader in the first place.
    Yeah, I've been bummed about the Harry Potter thing too because I hear the books are wonderful and that you really get value beyond the movies out of them. If I could go back I would do it differently, but I don't read much and I where I'd heard of the books before the movies, they weren't really on my radar. I was actually thinking as I wrote that post that maybe enough time has passed, or given a couple more years maybe it could be different now. Hopefully someday.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I saw movies 1 thru 6 before reading any Harry Potter. It's doable. I'd argue you could skip the first 2, probably 3 and be fine, since especially the first two are such kiddy books to be a bit off putting. I read the first five aloud to my son a year or two ago, and that was fine, but I remember the first 2 to be a bit of a slog. It they're also comparatively tiny. 
    TravisKingKobra
  • @A_Ron_Hubbard Thanks for the tip. I thought that I had heard that book 3 is really where the books start to take off beyond the movies, and since 3 is my favorite of the movies that might be a good entry point. Thanks, man! I think I'll give it a shot sometime soon.
  • @Travis 3 is the high point of the series, hands down, for both the books and the films.
    Travisasmallcat
  • I saw movies 1 thru 6 before reading any Harry Potter. It's doable. I'd argue you could skip the first 2, probably 3 and be fine, since especially the first two are such kiddy books to be a bit off putting. I read the first five aloud to my son a year or two ago, and that was fine, but I remember the first 2 to be a bit of a slog. It they're also comparatively tiny. 
    Especially the first 1/3 or so of book 1. I think because of how much fun the series ended up being, we all forget how terrible the beginning of that book was. 
  • As someone who watched most of the Harry Potter movies before reading the books (think I saw the first 6 movies before reading the books prior to movies 7 and 8) and someone who watched seasons 1 and 2 of GoT before reading all of the books prior to season 3 airing on TV, I'll say that for GoT, knowing what was going to happen was actually a big help at times.  I say this because at times you can definitely get "lost in the forest" but if you know that something big or something cool is going to happen, it's a way to just keep on moving because you know you're getting a payoff at some point.  So for me, reading book 3 of GoT without knowing it was interesting to a point but it was also my excitement of wanting to know what was going to happen in the story by that point in time.  Then obviously the Red Wedding occurs and it's a total holy shit moment and so going into books 4 and 5, that was more of my motivation to finish them and find out what the next holy shit moment was going to be.  But ultimately, I thought books 4 and 5 were still relatively slow (particularly book 4).  There just seem to be a lot of filler and characters not really progressing and moving on.  But in reading all of the books, I did also enjoy learning the details and differences as well. 

    As for Harry Potter, to me, it was easy to go and read the book after watching most of the movies and knowing information because I enjoyed learning all of the details or differences.  But I do understand the mentality that if you grew up reading the books and then watched them become movies and feel that the proper order to is to read the books and then watch the movies.

    So overall, I guess I'm more of a person that does enjoy watching a movie and reading the book (in whichever order) and then compare the differences and what details were omitted and what liberties the movie takes with the story.  I'd say generally the book is typically better but there are definitely times where I think about how the movie nailed a scene in a book or did it better than my imagination.  And that's also can be helpful is after watching the movie and then reading the book, I can envision the characters to be the people from the movie in my head as I'm reading the book as oppose to me imagining how the characters might look.

  • Shum said:
    @Travis. I totally get this.  I read the first couple GOT books between seasons 2 and 3 and definitely found parts if it tedious.  I managed to push through because I really wanted to find out what happened next, but I can totally understand why people don't.

    As far as Harry Potter goes, it bums me out a little bit when people watch the movies before reading the books, because reading those books was such a special experience for me growing up, and I can't even imagine trying to read them after having every major plot point spoiled by the movies.  Maybe with enough time you can forget the movies enough to enjoy the books, but I understand that's a big commitment, especially if you're not an avid reader in the first place.
    I can relate to this 100%.  I grew up reading the Harry Potter books and made it a point to finish the book before watching the movie.  I was about 9 or 10 when the 1st book came out and if I'm not mistaken the 1st movie came out a few years after the book was released.  I would always reread the book before going to see the movie. I was never disappointed in the movies but there is so much in books 3 and later that didn't make the cut in the movie where it makes the books much better in my opinion. 

    In regards to Game of Thrones, I've fully seen all the show and haven't touched the books YET.  I'm having trouble convincing myself to start reading it as it's quite the long series.  I've listened to a lot of the extra "spoiler" book knowledge about random facets that aren't included in the show and while it interests me, it's tough for me start reading them when I have so many different TV shows that I want to watch.  Also I feel if I had read the books before the show I would need a full notebook to jot down notes on the what seems like thousands of characters that are involved in order to keep track of them.   
  • I recently listened to all of the podcasts including the instant takes and spoil lores.  Hands down the very best podcasts discussing anything.  Somewhat backwards, I rewatched GOT just so I could enjoy the podcasts more. I listened on hikes and it made the miles go by quickly.  Thank you Jim & A Ron for the many many hours of thoughtful, humorous and profane discussion! I'll be joining the club.

    Looking forward to season 8!

  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    The Harry Potter books I've read have been pretty quick reads. They are written for kids so they are a bit easier to get through. I haven't read them all.

    I can't imagine reading the Game of Thrones books because in my personal experience, I have enjoyed film and TV adaptations of these types of world-building kind of fantasy books more than I enjoyed the actual books. I know for some people digging into all the details of the different lands, families, "historical" stuff etc is part of the fun but for me it detracts from the plot, so when creators are forced to distill it down to a film or series length and highlight plot  movement, it improves it for me.

    But getting back to the point here, I really like the Bald Move coverage of GOT because @A_Ron_Hubbard has done that deep dive into the books that I am not willing to do, but I do sometimes get confused and need to understand what happened on the show since all that background moves by so fast. I joined the club because I literally think of the GOT Bald Move podcasts as an added value service that saved me a lot of research time haha.

    And I like the dynamic of the book reader/show watcher that Aron/Jim have going, because the conversation kind of flows in a way where Aron has to explain a lot of stuff but he has a natural reason to (explaining to Jim, answering Jim's questions) so it's more conversational than if Aron was just up giving a lecture or something. And Jim has a way of redirecting the conversation when it gets too bogged down and Aron will follow him out of the metaphorical bog, even though one has to assume that Aron would be happy to talk about whatever detail for another hour, lol. I assume that's because they are good friends who know each other well.

    I have listened to a lot of their other content that interested me, but I can't say I have gone out of my way to watch a show that they cover, just to listen to more Bald Move, like some folks here have. I actually don't know how they make so much content that one person doesn't even have time to listen to all of it, lol. I also still listen to a lot of podcasts, both entertainment and otherwise, and I can't imagine stopping; to me it's a natural progression from listening to public radio which I always used to do, but more on demand, and gives me something to occupy my mind when I am doing boring things like commuting, paperwork etc. 
  • AjasAjas Seattle, WA
    edited February 21
    @Uglyduckling81 's comment about not liking Lady Stoneheart in the books is something I 100% can agree with. It was such a disappointing conclusion to the Brienne plotline which was a big chunk of book 4.

    The *reason* why this is different vis-a-vis the show is that Brienne has a more interesting arc and the VISUAL of Lady Stoneheart would be breathtaking and badass. So I agreed with the hope that she would be resurrected, from a zombie porn perspective.

    Ousting Lady Stoneheart from the show just means she served some role in bringing down Ramsay or uniting Robb and Danaerys in the north, which the show opted to omit.

    For my money, I'd rather see Lady Stoneheart than the Sandsnakes, if I had to vote on which show reenactment of bungled plotline is more visually interesting.
  • On a slightly different topic, are there any book readers out there that even still care about book 6 and 7 coming out?  I didn't start reading the books until after season 2 of the show and then plowed through them all before season 3 started and have been eagerly awaiting book 6.  However, now I'm at the point where I almost could care less because GRRM has just zapped my anticipation away because he's taken so long to write them and also because rather than finish them, he's writing other books and completing those.  And while I get it that for writers, you might have to be in a mood or get into a zone or something, i'd say because every time you see a headline about when will book 6 come out, there is no actual answer and it's just more of the same of "GRRM says he's still working on it but in the meantime, he's also working on this other project", I just don't care as much. 

    And it's funny, because I don't think it even has to do with the tv show surpassing the books and potentially spoiling what is to come in the books.  It's just over time with a lack of progress, GRRM is allowing the books to matter less and less.

    With that all being said, don't get me entirely wrong.  If book 6 release date was announced, I'd look forward to it and still get it and read it as quickly as possible but to an extent, it won't be quite the same level of excitement for it, if that makes sense. 

  • asmallcat said:
    I saw movies 1 thru 6 before reading any Harry Potter. It's doable. I'd argue you could skip the first 2, probably 3 and be fine, since especially the first two are such kiddy books to be a bit off putting. I read the first five aloud to my son a year or two ago, and that was fine, but I remember the first 2 to be a bit of a slog. It they're also comparatively tiny. 
    Especially the first 1/3 or so of book 1. I think because of how much fun the series ended up being, we all forget how terrible the beginning of that book was. 
    Haha, That is exactly how I am feeling. I have read the first 20 pages of book 1 with my kids 2x now, and just end up stopping. Got the illustared version on sale this Christmas so hope that will help! It is gorgeous!!
  • Ajas said:
    For my money, I'd rather see Lady Stoneheart than the Sandsnakes, if I had to vote on which show reenactment of bungled plotline is more visually interesting.
    I think that's only because of how badly the Sandsnakes were handled.
    A combination of terrible writing and hammy B grade acting.
    The actual story for Dorn was great from the books which I'm pretty sure Aron pointed out numerous times during the podcasts.
    It seemed to be just an excuse to get more diversity into their screen casting so lets ham fist this story to fit the recruitment policy.
  • Ajas said:
    For my money, I'd rather see Lady Stoneheart than the Sandsnakes, if I had to vote on which show reenactment of bungled plotline is more visually interesting.
    I think that's only because of how badly the Sandsnakes were handled.
    A combination of terrible writing and hammy B grade acting.
    The actual story for Dorn was great from the books which I'm pretty sure Aron pointed out numerous times during the podcasts.
    It seemed to be just an excuse to get more diversity into their screen casting so lets ham fist this story to fit the recruitment policy.
    I’m going to hold my tongue on that last comment, that’s playing with Fire. As far as the Dorne story goes, if they can cut out fat, but still keep a location they’ll keep the “needed” ones only. I would have loved to see LS, but rreally looking at it from the outside, it would have been used just as a nod to the book readers. I didn’t have an issue with the Dorne story line, but know many folks did. 
  • DoshyDoshy Japan
    Well, the Stoneheart plot would have been a nice revenge theme for the Red Wedding running along the same timeline a couple seasons ago.  

    They skipped that and moved it to Arya's eventual revenge against everyone.  

    It's just like the actual saga of Tyrion in the books.  I really thought that would have been some good stuff if they had taken it for the show.  

    I was all for the Nymeria subplot running concurrent wit Arya's training, but that probably would have cost a fortune.  

    And Yes, Dorne was butchered terribly.  I don't think some of that was on the Sand Snakes (even though they sucked).  Making Jamie go down was a terrible mistake as well.  Felt like a bad Pink Panther movie.   

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