Goddammit, Louis.

A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/arts/television/louis-ck-sexual-misconduct.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

Louis CK has been kind of a hero to me.  I love his comedy, I love his art, and I admire the generosity and risk taking he does with many of his endeavors.  Which is why I really resisted believing that these rumors about his sexual misconduct towards woman were true.  And it makes me really, really angry that for at least two years he's denied, lied, and used his power and influence to cast doubt on his accusers in a way that is diametrically opposite to the public image he has carefully - and now we know hypocritically and maliciously - constructed.  I can't believe he was so full of shit!

I guess 2016 was the year our celebrities died as heroes, 2017 they've fucking lived long enough to become the villain.
picorock80FernNYC17KingKobratom_gCollincarter31MichelleAww_PHuuCkPhoebes89LucasAlkaid13and 15 others.
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Comments

  • God dammit. Tried to make the same denials for Spacey.
    GredalBee
  • Not sure what you expected, A.Ron.  He is a ginger...  ;)
    TaraC73Elisa
  • I don’t know how to reconcile the art with the artists. Maybe, don’t give up hope altogether, and have faith there are still good people in the world. And be the good people in the world. 

    Mister Rogers said “look to the helpers” when catastrophes strike. Maybe our generation should amend that to “be the helpers,” and listen when people need us to, and advocate when we can. 

    Sometimes it feels overwhelmingly and oppressively dark, and that we will all drown in the shadows. Even if your heroes fail you, never stop shining, be the light. 

    The dawn is about to break, hold out a while longer :)
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    edited November 9
    Yeah, these stories have been going around for a while and it sucks. You can't like anything anymore these days.

    GredalBeeBrawn
  • Won't Ever Happen To Bryan Cranston!
  • Saw this come across my twitter feed this afternoon, disappointed would be an understatement. This isn’t the end either. 
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    I'm interested in what Pamela Adlon has to say about this.
    Elisa
  • MrXMrX CO
    edited November 9
    Yea this unfortunately has been another one of those "open secrets" for quite some time. Gawker (RIP) had written stuff about him, Spacey, etc. years before it came out with people on the record. 

    When the dam breaks...


  • kuman07kuman07 Kansas City
    This is why I never try to become too passionate or have high admiration for any celebrity or sports figure. You can admire and respect what they do, and think they are great at what they do but you don't really know the person. At least on a personal level. Probably best not to get too emotionally invested in these people that you really don't know.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I think it's easier to separate the art from the artists when their art isn't so personally about the artists.  A lot of art's value comes from truth and honesty, and when it's revealed as a lot of bullshit and lies, there's not a lot left.  When Louis CK says "when someone says you hurt them, you don't get to decide they didn't."  Where did that come from?

    And I know this has been a rumor for  awhile, I've talked about it on a few podcasts, but I really didn't want to believe it.  I believe that victims should be heard and believed, but still... Louis.  How can it be?  "Oh, it's only one, maybe two women, and they didn't name Louie by name," or "maybe it was a misunderstanding or a joke gone wrong", or "well Chris Pratt answered the door nude to Amy Poehler that one time, and Louie was on Parks and Rec, maybe that's something that crowd does and thinks is funny and he just misread the room" kind of bullshit.  That's what makes me really angry.  The fact that I got sucker into this and it makes it easier to by cynical and harder to be an optimist.   

    Going through life without having heroes or role models feels defeatist and depressing to me. It's like saying never expect anything good to happen, and you won't be disappointed.  Hope and faith rewarded feels amazing.
    Elisajtmy92Phoebes89
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    That's why stories are so powerful. They can't disappoint us later.


    hypergenesbpavlovsbellA_Ron_Hubbard
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited November 9
    Yeah, these rumours have been around for a few years - I had a massive fight about this and the Woody Allen thing with my ex (Louis/Woody worshipper) a couple of years ago and we didn’t speak for weeks over it. 

    Burn these motherfuckers to the ground. I bet so many predatory men in Hollywood are shitting it right now, wondering if they will be next. 
    ElisapavlovsbellMurderbearFrakkin Tjenetee
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited November 9
    Also, I am not down for the “separate the art from the artist” argument when the artist is still alive and making art and profiting from that art. This is why these people get away with it for years and years even though “everyone knows” - they’re still making money for themselves and a bunch of other people because their audience is “separating the art from the artist” and a bunch of other self serving people *cough*KateWinslet*cough* are happy to “not get involved” because they want those Oscars. 
    ElisapavlovsbellMurderbearGeorge
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited November 10
    @Dee - I'm curious that you see this as "burn him down" behavior. I read the whole article, FWIW, and I've always perceived you as pretty level-headed. Maybe it's because I'm not surprised Louis is sexually aggressive... his stand-up sometimes talked about how horrible men are. "When someone shows you who they are, believe them" as the adage goes. Maybe I'm too clinical when it comes to society, but I don't feel any desire to see Louis C.K. destroyed because of the incidents in the article, immoral though they were.

    If you don't want to answer, I understand. (If you didn't speak to someone for a few weeks over it, that would make sense, and I can respect a passionate opinion.) 
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited November 10
    @JaimieT I’m level headed in the sense that I don’t believe in vigilante justice or murdering paedophiles and rapists or whatever, but when it comes to sexual abusers/harassers taking advantage of their positions to do said abusing and harassing, I’m all for taking away the privileges of those positions and prosecuting them as far as possible. I don’t know a single woman who doesn’t have a story (or 10) of harsssment, abuse, and/or assault, and it infuriates me that these incidents are so common that women just accept it as normal. It’s always bugged me, but having a teenage daughter and seeing what she and her friends are subjected to daily - and have been since they were children - has ramped up my rage 100-fold. 

    In short, I am 100% for bringing down these Hollywood fuckers who’ve subjected countless numbers of women (and children) to unwanted harassment or worse just because they were in a position to do so. 
    ElisapavlovsbellhypergenesbPhoebes89Michelle
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    @Dee - That's a good point, I do see it as normal and it is coloring my response, and that is messed up. Thanks for the reply. :)
    DeeElisahypergenesb
  • Tom_ATom_A Carcosa
    edited November 10
    Supposedly Matthew Weiner too ... Unbelievable how so many of these people are such manipulative sexual deviants..

    Weiner and CK have produced some of the most formative, important art to me personally. I feel very uncomfortable about all of this. Just so disappointed,  but assuming all this is true (in CK's case i believe it, these allegations have been hanging around for a few years) then we've got to change the culture and that means getting all this out in the open and shaming them. 

    But it sure is a shitty feeling as a fan of these people, no? 

    http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/mad-men-matthew-weiner-kater-gordon-1202611447/
    Elisa
  • calebthrowercalebthrower South Carolina
    Do you all think this will change Hollywood in that we will start seeing more female leads in serious rolls? With the success of Wonder Woman I can see it happening. A 007 type film with a female lead. Bourne. Movies over the next few years could look a lot different in terms of casting
    Elisa
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited November 10
    Maybe, in an attempt to capitalize on an emerging market.  Overall however, I think there's a relationship between the pathology and success.  The pathology is a reflection of characteristics that make these people good at what they do.  I think the same sort of people will end up with power over decision making.

    Do you all think this will change Hollywood in that we will start seeing more female leads in serious rolls? With the success of Wonder Woman I can see it happening. A 007 type film with a female lead. Bourne. Movies over the next few years could look a lot different in terms of casting

  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Here's what's getting me: the now-standard response from the accused. Silence, no comment, no memory. Odds are ONE of them did it... why copy him? They really need to start standing out. "I remember that night, and she's a fucking liar!" I'll wait. 
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    Maybe, in an attempt to capitalize on an emerging market.  Overall however, I think there's a relationship between the pathology and success.  The pathology is a reflection of characteristics that make these people good at what they do.  I think the same sort of people will end up with power over decision making.

    Do you all think this will change Hollywood in that we will start seeing more female leads in serious rolls? With the success of Wonder Woman I can see it happening. A 007 type film with a female lead. Bourne. Movies over the next few years could look a lot different in terms of casting

    I enjoyed what Steven Soderbergh had to say about abusive nature and success:

    Do you believe that in order to make memorable art, you have to be disturbed in some way?
    Not at all.

    That’s what’s often raised as a defense of Roman Polanski, Mel Gibson, and others.
    No, I don’t believe that at all. It takes a lot of energy to be an asshole. The people I admire most just aren’t interested in things that take away from their ability to make stuff. The people I really respect, and that I’ve met who fit this definition, have a sense of grace about them, because they know that there is no evolving and there is no wisdom without humility.

    You can’t get better if you behave in a way that shuts people off. You can’t! You don’t have all the ideas necessary to solve something. You don’t! I’m sure if you spoke to Harvey in his heyday and said to him what I just said to you, he would believe that he accomplished all that he had because of the way he behaved.

    Meaning, like a bully.
    Yes, and I would argue instead, “You’re 50 percent of what you could have been, because of the way you behave.” Ultimately, there is a large group of people who are talented, who you want to be in business with, but who won’t be in business with you. I don’t know how you view that as being your best self, or the best version of your business, but I’m really curious to see going forward what changes.

    ////////////////////////////////

    The whole interview is a good read (Soderbergh is always interesting). I understand people feeling disillusioned by their heroes falling, but my first thought is with the victims -- they are the heroes to me, they and the journalists, editors, and support staff who are working tirelessly to expose these predators. If I start to feel bad about the art that is now tainted, then I think about the art that did not get made by their victims (case in point: Kater Gordon, Matthew Weiner's accuser, has not worked since leaving Mad Men). How many countless women and men were unable to work in their field after being abused by these men? I feel sad, mortified, and angry for them.
    JaimieTDeeDaveyMacCretanBullMrXhypergenesbMichelle
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    In case anyone hasn't seen the trailer for I Love You, Daddy, it's as disturbing as you'd expect and probably more terrible than you'd expect (at least, I didn't expect the film to look this awful).


  • Tom_ATom_A Carcosa
    jeeeessssus the movie is about Louis' character allowing his underage daughter to be romantically involved with John Malcovich's character? Yikes.
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    Tom_A said:
    jeeeessssus the movie is about Louis' character allowing his underage daughter to be romantically involved with John Malcovich's character? Yikes.
    For real. Talk about blocking a hotel room door thematically.
  • Everybody deserves a second chance.  :)
  • HBO has removed LCK from the future benefit event and all of his previous projects hosted by them:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/louie-ck-sexual-misconduct-hbo-removes-from-benefit-show-and-past-specials-2017-11
  • Everybody deserves a second chance.  :)
    Well, technically, if Louis CK gets another chance, it would be a 6th chance (at least).

    JaimieT
  • Lampshading with Louis CK. 

    He has a lot of chutzpah. Woody Allen made Manhattan before the stories about how sketchy he was were a public thing.  Louis was letting it all hang out. 
  • kuman07kuman07 Kansas City
    I think it's easier to separate the art from the artists when their art isn't so personally about the artists.  A lot of art's value comes from truth and honesty, and when it's revealed as a lot of bullshit and lies, there's not a lot left.  When Louis CK says "when someone says you hurt them, you don't get to decide they didn't."  Where did that come from?

    And I know this has been a rumor for  awhile, I've talked about it on a few podcasts, but I really didn't want to believe it.  I believe that victims should be heard and believed, but still... Louis.  How can it be?  "Oh, it's only one, maybe two women, and they didn't name Louie by name," or "maybe it was a misunderstanding or a joke gone wrong", or "well Chris Pratt answered the door nude to Amy Poehler that one time, and Louie was on Parks and Rec, maybe that's something that crowd does and thinks is funny and he just misread the room" kind of bullshit.  That's what makes me really angry.  The fact that I got sucker into this and it makes it easier to by cynical and harder to be an optimist.   

    Going through life without having heroes or role models feels defeatist and depressing to me. It's like saying never expect anything good to happen, and you won't be disappointed.  Hope and faith rewarded feels amazing.
    I guess my point is more you can connect with these people on a certain personal level and maybe even relate to what they are saying. But at the end of the day, you aren’t around these people and don’t truly know them. We would like to think they are showing us their true selves but we don’t really know because we don’t really know them. And I guess for me, as I get older my heroes change. Growing up it was people like Michael Jordan, etc which is fine growing up. But now it’s a great teacher I had in one of my classes or a great manager I had who I learned important lessons from. Obviously this is just my point of view on it and I’m sure everyone’s idea of a hero is different. But I get what you’re saying. I might not totally agree but I see what you mean.
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    At the moment, the closest thing I have to a hero is Ronan Farrow, as he’s the one who pushed so hard to break the Weinstein story, which then kicked off all these other skeeves being exposed. 
    hypergenesb
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