Australia Vs Canada, Which is the best place to live?

FlashGordonFlashGordon Leeds, UK
edited November 2017 in General
Long story short because of various visa laws, it's pretty easy and affordable at my age to immigrate to Canada & Australia - Not you US,so I now have a work visa for both places that I need to activate in 2018. 

I have personal pro's and cons, but my question to you international Bald Move community is as Australians, Canadians or anyone who has done anything similar, any advice in deciding which to go to?

No kids, so family considerations are not a factor and the respective cities i'd likely head to are Sydney & Toronto. Also i don't mean to brag, this is self-funded & I feel very lucky to have this opportunity.
BrandonTheBardCretanBull
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Comments

  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited November 2017
    I love Sydney. Can’t comment on Canada though. But Australia and Sydney have a great work/life balance. The weather is awesome. The beaches are amazing. There’s a ton of great places to travel nearby like NZ, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Tasmania. Lots of diversity. The coffee is awesome. Cafe scene is great. Pub lunch Friday is always fun if you work in a decent office. Basically the office I worked at we shut down at noon on Friday and went and got pissed until late in the evening. 

    Csnt really think of any big downsides. Maybe taxes. I Guess night life could be better. Homelessness is sort of an issue. House prices are ridiculous and make affording a home near the city nearly impossible. Cigarettes are expensive as shit. Can of coke and other stupid little snacks/drinks are really expensive. Like $2-3 bucks for a can of coke from 7/11. Places close early except on thursdays. Travelling outside of ANZ can be expensive besides places like Bali and Fiji. Almost anything further out from thrrr is at least 8-10 hour flight. And you Europe is more like 20+
    FlashGordon
  • I know I hate when it’s hot, so I’d have to go to Canada for that reason alone. 
    FlashGordonBrawn
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited November 2017
    I live in Toronto and like all places it isn't perfect, but I love it here.  I've traveled all over Canada and America and there's no place I'd rather live (maybe NYC - if I had more money!).  Incidentally, my family is originally from Leeds (Horsforth).

    If I had an idea of what you liked, what you didn't like, what you're interested in etc I could offer my thoughts a little better.

    Very basic run down....

    Housing -  is insanely expensive.  A house in the city is around $1 million, and that's not for a mansion - that's for a post-war home built in the 1940's or 50's, could need some fixing up and it might only be semi-detached.  Houses out in the suburbs are cheaper, but still expensive.  My parents live in a townhouse about 1/2 hour drive East of Toronto and their place was recently evaluated at $425k.

    Weather - Winters can be cold, but you will get used to it.  Driving in the snow and on ice can take a long time to adjust to.

    Politics - current Provincial government is Liberal, but they 100% will lose the next election and the Conservatives will almost certainly win.  The city of Toronto is very liberal, the suburbs tend to be more conservative (but still socially liberal...same sex marriage, a woman's right to choose etc are all considered settled matters, even among Conservatives).

    Culture - can't be beat, truly world class.  Toronto is the most diverse city in the world (that's not hyperbole, it's statistical fact).  There are around 6 million people in the Toronto area and 50% of them weren't born in Canada.  It's an immigrant city that is flooded with world culture.  No matter what your interests are, what type of food that you like, no matter what you're curious about, I guarantee that you'll find it in Toronto.

    Sports - we have everything except for the NFL.  The Blue Jays are a decent baseball team, the Raptors are a very good basketball team, the Maple Leafs are a very good hockey team (perhaps on the verge of being a great team), and Toronto FC is the best football team in the MLS...and despite what Europeans say/think, the MLS is a decent league (Championship level, with a handful of Premiership quality players).  I'm a member of a Toronto FC supporter's group and there's about 15 of us who are also Leeds United fans, you'd be welcomed to join us :)

    Crime - very, very low.  Violent crime is among the lowest in the world among major cities.  I work in a criminology related field, we measure violent crime on a 0 - 100 scale, anything under 11 is considered low crime...Toronto is rated at 1.8 (on the same scale, Leeds is rated 8.2).

    That's what I can think of off the top of my head, but if you had questions about anything in particular I'd be happy to answer.


    OH!  And there's also this - we aren't Australia :p  No deadly spiders, no deadly snakes, no kangeroos threatening to box you, no drop bears, no chlamydia bears  (just kidding, I love my Aussie Commonwealth brothers and sisters, but also love a good ribbing!)


    FlashGordon
  • Do you like it hot or cold? That’s a big factor. 
  • California 
    DoubleA_RonFlashGordonElisa
  • FlashGordonFlashGordon Leeds, UK
    edited November 2017
    @Hatorian Thanks man that's really useful, from what I hear the lifestlye and general attitude is pretty awesome there, the cost thing shouldn't hit me too badly, don't smoke or drink coke but I get you. It sounds like Toronto is equally painfully expensive for housing, so that just a bullet i've got to bite.
    The cafe thing is strong pull and I work in digital marketing so the culture should be pretty good wherever I end up office wise. The flight times are painful, but hopefully wont have to do it too many times!
  • FlashGordonFlashGordon Leeds, UK
    edited November 2017
    @CretanBull That's a really comprehensive answer, thankyou!
    Ey up You're a Yorkshireman originally then, that's great! I've only got one foot in Leeds now sadly, 90% I live in Barcelona but i've spent the last 10 years In Leeds, it's a great city and Horsforth is a brilliant bit of town.

    I think the culture, crime & politics are the main things and they're on the same page with me, but the international nature in particular does seem pretty amazing and it's connected to loads of great places which is a big pull. 
    Crime wise Leeds is mostly really safe, but crime is big problem in a couple of bad bits of town and i've been mugged & had a awesome bike nicked, so yeh open to an improvment.

    Up for getting into what the MLS has in store and thankyou for the offer will certainly take up if I make it over. I'm actually a Manchester Utd fan which is pretty controversial here, but Leeds are a great club and I work right near their stadium when here. 

    The default negative you hear from Canada is it's cold, default negative of Oz is snakes and spiders, just got to get used to one of those things I guess :).

    Interests wise, here I go to gigs, hike,cycle, swim, mainly go to museums, cafe's and the odd bar, work in digital marketing. I'll think about any specifics and come back to you, but you've given me a good feel for it and hearing from anyone who lives their and enjoys it is really encouraging, as long as I don't ever dream of owning property centrally it sounds great, thanks again!


    CretanBull
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    edited November 2017
    Long story short because of various visa laws, it's pretty easy and affordable at my age to immigrate to Canada & Australia - Not you US,so I now have a work visa for both places that I need to activate in 2018. 

    I have personal pro's and cons, but my question to you international Bald Move community is as Australians, Canadians or anyone who has done anything similar, any advice in deciding which to go to?

    No kids, so family considerations are not a factor and the respective cities i'd likely head to are Sydney & Toronto. Also i don't mean to brag, this is self-funded & I feel very lucky to have this opportunity.
    I would say Canada, although I've never been to Australia. 

    I would check out Vancouver, the urban metro area is far smaller then Toronto, housing prices are lower although still high, Vancouver is literally right on the US Border and so visiting cities like Seattle, Portland, and SF is fairly easy, and more importantly, access to the US to avoid Canada's insane taxes on certain items. shopping in general is cheaper in the US for literally everything and so many Canadians cross the border to do shopping.  there's also abundant outdoor recreation. 

    I've never lived in Vancouver, but I know the city fairly well. 
    FlashGordon
  • Weather-wise I prefer hot to cold, but I like that England has 4 distinct seasons which is more Canada than Australia , so either is fine really.
    NoobieDooz
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited November 2017
    @CretanBull I'm actually a Manchester Utd fan..
    You know what?  Australia is probably nicer than Canada, I think you should go there instead :p

    Interests wise, here I go to gigs, hike,cycle, swim, mainly go to museums, cafe's and the odd bar, work in digital marketing. I'll think about any specifics and come back to you, but you've given me a good feel for it and hearing from anyone who lives their and enjoys it is really encouraging, as long as I don't ever dream of owning property centrally it sounds great, thanks again!
    Lots of options for all of those things, except perhaps not hiking (limited options in the city, more so in the surrounding area).  As far as live music goes, Toronto is an amazing city with a super vibrant music scene - lots of venues of all different sizes and attracts acts from all over the world.  I'm into cycling as well, and there are all kinds of places to go - the city itself has bike lanes, and there's a great place called Centre Island that's a short ferry ride (15 mins or so) away from Toronto that is a great place to tour around on a bike.  The Royal Ontario Museum is top class - everything from ancient Egypt onward.  We have a great art gallery too, their current feature is Guillermo Del Toro - At Home with Monsters (I checked it out, it's awesome!).

    When it comes to pubs, bars, cafe's, restaurants, night life etc you'd be spoiled for choice...SO many options it's hard to summarize them!

    Canada is definitely cold in the Winter, but Toronto's Winters are less harsh than other places.  That's not to say that they're mild, but we're WAY better off than more Northern cities like Edmonton or Winnipeg (not so affectionately called "Winter-peg"!).

    Housing is crazy....I just did a quick (ie not cherry picked!) search on the real estate website here, this place is on the market for $800,000.  It's in a nice area (a Portuguese part of town) and is about 20 minutes from downtown:



    6 years ago I paid $325k for my condo (+$600 a month in condo fees) and the unit across the hall from me just sold for $575k....I live in what has become a trendy part of town, it wasn't when I moved here.
    FlashGordon
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited November 2017
    Australia is hot as balls, and in Sydney you often get that tropical sweaty heat (which I hate, and which is why I couldn’t live there). It’s crazy expensive too, though our wages are higher than a lot of the world, too. Housing, groceries, meat, books, etc all expensive. 

    The deadly creatures thing is vastly exaggerated - I mean, they’re there, but if you live in an urban area you’re not going to be falling over them every five minutes, and you learn to check your shoes before you put them on because spiders. 

    I personally hate Sydeny because it’s too crowded and kind of glitzy and shallow, but if you’re young and unencumbered it’s probably fun. And they do have some really beautiful beaches if you’re into that. 
    FlashGordon
  • @CretanBull dont talk about housing cost, your condo or a townhouse here depending on the suburb would easily be $1M in Sydney. This is mainly Melbourne and Sydney as there is a shortage of housing. 

    @FlashGordon
    As for people mentioning Hot and Cold as the argument for Canada vs Australia I have to say yes Summer is amazing here and in Sydney. Brisbane is too f*&*ing humid for me. While we don't have snow in our cities we do have ski fields in Oz only a few hours from both Melbourne and Sydney, you won't get metres of powder but enough snow to ski on. Summer can be too much for some people but winter in Melbourne has nights that gets into the negatives but as I mentioned before it doesn't snow in cities here.

    Telco services (even though I work for one) are really expensive for what you get an our home broadband networks are a joke especially our our government  run National Broadband Network or NBN. Same as access to quality TV we have 1 pay TV or cable TV providers so they charge a lot for their services, although streaming services have started to make it easier but without quality broadband whats the point of streaming services. 

    We do have the proper 4 seasons here its not just hot and cold, you will get a proper Autumn (fall for the Americans) and Spring is a proper season especially in Melbourne where the Spring Racing carnival is massive. We even get a Tuesday off for a 3 1/2 minute Horse race!

    Most of the current bands will tour Melbourne and Sydney and play big shows, 10-15 years ago it wouldn't be guaranteed but now its different. 

    If you want to watch the EPL don't bother coming here as all the games take place between 2 am and 6 am just because of time difference plus one of our telcos have the rights so its tough to watch. But if you're into cricket Australia is obviously better for you than Canada, as far as hiking, cycling, swimming and any outdoor activities you have a chance to do that any time of the year here. As for snakes they are more likely to impact you than dangerous spiders but if you are in the city chances are you will never see a snake but if you get in an urban bush fringe you will start seeing them. Although Sydney does have the funnel-web spider which is a nasty little bastard.

    Obviously if you did have family issues Canada is a lot closer to home for flights etc. but if that isn't an issue fly via S.E Asia and spend some time in Thailand or similar country before coming over.
  • @CretanBull mentioned MLS but I am not going to try and make a case for the A League as its a turd that can not be polished, it doesn't matter how much everyone talks it up. 
    FlashGordon
  • edited November 2017
    Dee said:
    The deadly creatures thing is vastly exaggerated - I mean, they’re there, but if you live in an urban area you’re not going to be falling over them every five minutes, and you learn to check your shoes before you put them on because spiders. 

    CretanBull
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    ghm3 said:
    Dee said:
    The deadly creatures thing is vastly exaggerated - I mean, they’re there, but if you live in an urban area you’re not going to be falling over them every five minutes, and you learn to check your shoes before you put them on because spiders. 

    That only happens, like, once a week tops.
    CretanBullKingKobraFlashGordonunread
  • Dee said:
    ghm3 said:
    Dee said:
    The deadly creatures thing is vastly exaggerated - I mean, they’re there, but if you live in an urban area you’re not going to be falling over them every five minutes, and you learn to check your shoes before you put them on because spiders. 

    That only happens, like, once a week tops.
    Either use a spoon to get rid of it or take the extra protein 
    DeeFlashGordonBrandonTheBard
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  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    edited November 2017

    Pay the price.
    FlashGordon
  • FlashGordonFlashGordon Leeds, UK
    edited November 2017
    @CretanBull You're selling me on it in big a way, the cycling friendly stuff and leisure/culture aspect really sounds very much like my kind of city.  And there's that Trudeau! A little bit more confidence inspiring than the quagmire that is domestic politics in the UK right now.

    Housing is a bit more affordable here, but still out of reach for most people under 35, myself included, but that's not why i'm moving. I can always live in hope of buying in a bad neighbourhood before it gentrifies. 

    The weather doesn't sound too bad either and the North of England isn't known for it warm climate, so i'm used to it.


  • FlashGordonFlashGordon Leeds, UK
    edited November 2017
    @Dee I'm a pretty glitzy and shallow person so i'll fit right in. While it could be for the long term, this isn't necessary for the rest of my life so fun for a year or two could be good and I'll be checking my shoes in no time.

    @davemcb Yeh the distance thing is good/bad  that is the only major down side I see in Australia, if I need to rush home, my folks are in good health now but both have beat cancer in the past so its a big consideration.

    The upside there when there is no rush , like you say is seeing South East Asia, my cousin lives in Sydney but is all over Asia and it's cool how connected to there it is.

    EPL highlights are fine and the higher cost of living isn't too concerning and I wouldn't stay long term if I wasn't earning enough for it to be a problem.

    @ghm3 I have false sense of security, benefit of being such an old country , anything dangerous has been hunt to extinction, no wild creature could kill you here ,  I need to develop a shoe and mug based arachnophobia 


    Deedavemcb
  • FlashGordonFlashGordon Leeds, UK
    edited November 2017
    @emnofseattle I'd not thought of Vancouver, but would love to see Seattle Portland  etc, all the way down route 101 really. I think the Canadians probably avoid a few crazy US laws being north of the border :), but that's really good to know thanks

    @akritenbrink I was afraid of it descending it national slinging match..maybe hoping a bit. But everyone has been really helpful or funny, thankyou to you and everyone for giving me so much to think about.

    I hear Seattle and Portland are pretty famed for the music scenes, Manchester is and Leeds to a degree too, the dark winter days indeed! Climate does seem pretty comparable and you make the Pacific North West sound amazing, the outdoors there look unbelievable, if i'm not moving there, i'm definitely visiting!! And the food, I love asian and the rest sounds appetizingly wholesome.


  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    I may as well throw a little something in here.

    My sister has lived in both Canada (born & raised) and in Australia (for ~8 months). She and my brother-in-law spent about half their time living and working in Perth and the other half backpacking and touring around. From what she's told me, Australia (and possibly Perth in particular) is a great place to go and work as a foreigner. It's interesting that these are the two options you put forth as my sister said one of the things that made them so comfortable there is how similar Australians are to Canadians.

    As far as Canada goes, Vancouver and Toronto are both very cool cities and, as others have said, are really expensive. Between the two of them I feel like Vancouver has a slight edge, but I like the ocean and I've spent more time in Vancouver. The few times I've visited Toronto for work all I haven't had much time to explore or take in the culture and that's mostly because every waking, non-working moment was spent in traffic.

    While work and staying close to family is the primary reason my wife and I settled in Calgary, it's really grown on me over the last 10 years. There are very few places that compare to western Canada for outdoor spaces to work and play. An 45 minute drive from my house puts me into a provincial park among the mountains with fishing, hiking, canoeing and such.

    We bought our small house in one of the southern suburbs about 6 years ago for around $300k CDN. Our last tax appraisal has the value at $390K. Property taxes are among the most reasonable for mid-size cities. We pay about 
    $2500/year.

    The music and arts scene in Calgary may not be what they are on the west coast but I do see a lot going on and plenty of concerts stopping in Calgary, Edmonton or both. I'm nearly 40 with three kids, so I don't have as much first hand knowledge here as I could.

    I could share more later, but right now my boss is looking for me. :D
  • @Dee I'm a pretty glitzy and shallow person so i'll fit right in. While it could be for the long term, this isn't necessary for the rest of my life so fun for a year or two could be good and I'll be checking my shoes in no time.

    @davemcb Yeh the distance thing is good/bad  that is the only major down side I see in Australia, if I need to rush home, my folks are in good health now but both have beat cancer in the past so its a big consideration.

    The upside there when there is no rush , like you say is seeing South East Asia, my cousin lives in Sydney but is all over Asia and it's cool how connected to there it is.

    EPL highlights are fine and the higher cost of living isn't too concerning and I wouldn't stay long term if I wasn't earning enough for it to be a problem.

    @ghm3 I have false sense of security, benefit of being such an old country , anything dangerous has been hunt to extinction, no wild creature could kill you here ,  I need to develop a shoe and mug based arachnophobia 


    dont be so sure about the long time stuff. I know a lot of people (myself included) that just thought it would be a fun 2 year experience then back to friends and family. 9 years later i have a wife and 2 kids and have Permanent Residency in both Australia and Singapore. Probably never moving back to the US. :)
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited November 2017
    I am going to hold hostage this thread for a bit because I have a legitimate question I have wanted to ask an Aussie.

    So, what do you guys do at Christmas time??? Because your seasons are flipped compared to the rest of the world; our summer is your winter and our winter is your summer... do you just go along with what the rest of the world is doing?  In your minds, Christmas/winter time  associated with heat, BBQ and beach? (which is a bit of a mind fuck for me to think about)  Or do you just ignore the rest of the world, and have your Christmas in July (when it's midly cooler)?  

    FlashGordon
  • aberry89 said:
    I am going to hold hostage this thread for a bit because I have a legitimate question I have wanted to ask an Aussie.

    So, what do you guys do at Christmas time??? Because your seasons are flipped compared to the rest of the world; our summer is your winter and our winter is your summer... do you just go along with what the rest of the world is doing?  In your minds, Christmas/winter time  associated with heat, BBQ and beach? (which is a bit of a mind fuck for me to think about)  Or do you just ignore the rest of the world, and have your Christmas in July (when it's midly cooler)?  


    The way I would describe Christmas in Australia would be its sort of like 4th of July in the US. Most people celebrate with a BBQ. Or like you said head to the beach. It’s definitely celebrated and gift giving is normal but because it’s mid summer people celebrate it in a different way. 
  • We still do traditional christmas lunch/dinner but its a big celebration for my family. People still decorate yards but everything just melts instead of freezes
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited November 2017
    aberry89 said:
    I am going to hold hostage this thread for a bit because I have a legitimate question I have wanted to ask an Aussie.

    So, what do you guys do at Christmas time??? Because your seasons are flipped compared to the rest of the world; our summer is your winter and our winter is your summer... do you just go along with what the rest of the world is doing?  In your minds, Christmas/winter time  associated with heat, BBQ and beach? (which is a bit of a mind fuck for me to think about)  Or do you just ignore the rest of the world, and have your Christmas in July (when it's midly cooler)?  

    Some do the full roast turkey and fixins thing - my family always did roast chicken (not turkey fans) and roast pork with veg and salad and whatnot. Others do barbeque - prawns are a big barbeque thing here at Chrissie. 

    Personally, I live interstate from and am not close to my family, and also I don’t care much about Christmas, so me, my daughter, and a friend of mine have Christmas Day lunch at a restaurant - three courses, no cooking, no cleaning. Love it. 
  • the whole Santa thing is hard to explain to kids sometimes as to why we dont have snow, my wife and I want to do a white Christmas but it is hard to be away from our families at that time. The hardest part for our Shopping Centre Santa is they are in the big suits and it can be the positive side of 35 degrees (~100F) and they still have all those kids climbing all over them. 

    Last Christmas Day in Melbourne it was 36 degrees and just steaming hot, we were at my mums side of the family with 70 odd people and really good air cons. We were close to the beach so we just went for a swim but not everyone is that lucky

    We do miss out on ugly Christmas sweater but we have Ugly Christmas Rashies 

  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited November 2017
    So crazy!  So in mid june/july is there anybody that does Christmas?   Cold weather and the seasons changing is such an integral part of the Christmas feeling for me, it would be soooo strange for it be switched. But I guess if you grew up with it, it's probably not strange at all. 

    P.S. Does this go for New Zealand too? I know it's far less hot there, but I assume their seasons are also the opposite of the upper hemisphere?

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