The Last Jedi (Spoilers Section)

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  • edited December 2017
    DaveyMac said:
    The other question that arises from the way that this movie was conducted:

    Why was R2 dormant for all of TFA? And why did it wake up when it did? Why did luke, who didn't want to be found leave little map pieces indicating his location?

    The assumption in TFA was that Luke had programmed R2 to boot up when a certain event happened (maybe finding Rey, maybe being under attack by Kylo). But since in this movie Luke is shown as legitimately not wanting to be found, why did any of that happen? Not to mention that if Luke ditched his X-Wing, how did R2 get out of the island?


    It may seem nitpicky, but it is stuff like this that left me feeling cold about TLJ. There were all sorts of interesting ideas or possibilities raised, and all of them failed to deliver.
    But J.J. did answer the R2 question in an interview, which to me was really unsatisfying. In that scene where BB8 was talking to dormant R2, he was telling R2 he had a piece of a map and he was asking R2 if he had the rest. R2 then spent the remainder of the movie searching the archives that he stole from the Death Star in ANH to find the rest of the map. He came alive when he finally found it, conveniently when the audience was still down about losing Han and needed something to be triumphant about. J.J. said as much. 
    I mean, if the director has to come in afterwards and explain a major plot point because the on screen dialog that dealt with it was between two droids beeping at each other...
    Not to mention that that doesn't explain how R2 could pin point the exact location.


    As for @Alkaid13 question: I was disappointed by this movie (wouldn't say I didn't like it) and I liked Rogue 1 better. I'd say my rankings are:

    A New Hope
    Empire
    ROTJ=TFA


    Rogue 1



    TLJ









    Prequels.
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    edited December 2017
    Loved them both. In the climax of R1, I couldn't help but leaning over to my friend and saying "dude, this is fucking awesome." Watched TLJ solo, and thought it to myself several times. Can't wait to go back and watch it again.

    Days later and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Quite possibly the most epic movie ever made. In a world where Star Wars is the definition of an epic, The Last Jedi stands on an even higher level. Friends keep asking "is it good?", and I have trouble responding. All I can muster is "It's a flawed movie with some hate-able parts, but also has some of the best scenes in all of motion picture history." Specifically, the Luke scenes. Which is weird, because he's one of my least favorite characters in the franchise. To go from being a whiny kid to what he is in TLJ is really an incredible transformation. I've always had trouble picturing an old Luke. In the same way that I could never picture Vader as a child, and well, we all know how that turned out. But to my delight, they managed to write a very interesting and compelling character. A version of Luke that is very much aware of just how awesome he is, and that regardless of what he's been through and accomplished, his work wasn't finished.
    gguenotvoodooratDaveyMacTaraC73
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    Was anyone else disappointed that they introduced some weird new horse looking creature instead of just using tauntauns? Maybe it's because the planet wasn't cold enough, but still, that big horse thing was pretty dumb looking.
    JoshuaHeter
  • DaveyMac said:
    The other question that arises from the way that this movie was conducted:

    Why was R2 dormant for all of TFA? And why did it wake up when it did? Why did luke, who didn't want to be found leave little map pieces indicating his location?

    The assumption in TFA was that Luke had programmed R2 to boot up when a certain event happened (maybe finding Rey, maybe being under attack by Kylo). But since in this movie Luke is shown as legitimately not wanting to be found, why did any of that happen? Not to mention that if Luke ditched his X-Wing, how did R2 get out of the island?


    It may seem nitpicky, but it is stuff like this that left me feeling cold about TLJ. There were all sorts of interesting ideas or possibilities raised, and all of them failed to deliver.
    But J.J. did answer the R2 question in an interview, which to me was really unsatisfying. In that scene where BB8 was talking to dormant R2, he was telling R2 he had a piece of a map and he was asking R2 if he had the rest. R2 then spent the remainder of the movie searching the archives that he stole from the Death Star in ANH to find the rest of the map. He came alive when he finally found it, conveniently when the audience was still down about losing Han and needed something to be triumphant about. J.J. said as much. 
    I mean, if the director has to come in afterwards and explain a major plot point because the on screen dialog that dealt with it was between two droids beeping at each other...
    Not to mention that that doesn't explain how R2 could pin point the exact location.


    As for @Alkaid13 question: I was disappointed by this movie (wouldn't say I didn't like it) and I liked Rogue 1 better. I'd say my rankings are:

    A New Hope
    Empire
    ROTJ=TFA


    Rogue 1



    TLJ









    Prequels.
    Yeah this is kind of one of my problems with TFA, the over-reliance on offscreen stuff or just kind of leaping from moment to moment. And I like TFA quite a bit, but I like it a little less each time I see it. But alas this is not a TFA thread, so I’ll stop there.
  • Alkaid13 said:
    Hmm, I’m actually curious about something.
    How does everyone who liked/didn’t like this movie feel about Rogue One?
    I ended up loving TLJ by the end and my estimation has grown since seeing it.

    I wasn’t feeling Rogue 1 until about a third of the way through, but really liked that one by the end too. But have only seen it once.

    I’m curious to see how both hold up on re-watches.
    Elisa
  • edited December 2017
    Alkaid13 said:
    Hmm, I’m actually curious about something.
    How does everyone who liked/didn’t like this movie feel about Rogue One?
    I love TLJ and like R1 a lot. I think TLJ is overall the better film but I still think R1's third act is better. Both to me are better than TFA.
  • I liked this movie more than I liked Rogue One, and I liked TFA better than either of them.

    I liked Rogue One too though, far more than any of the prequels.  Just didn't love it, maybe 7 or 7.5/10.
  • ebuchholzebuchholz Cleveland, OH
    TIL that people take Star Wars very seriously.

    Personally, TLJ is nearly on par with ESB and I thought it was a well modernized take with solid development of core and new characters, world building, and effects mastery.

    It had pacing issues, too many storylines, a bit too much comedy, and pruned some arcs that were interesting. If you think the OT didn’t suffer some of the same issues, I’d encourage you to rewatch them. :)
    gguenotAww_PHuuCkFlukesElisaweeniegirl
  • ebuchholz said:
    TIL that people take Star Wars very seriously.

    Weird thing to say in the forum of the podcast that normally spends twice the length a TV episode talking about it.
    JaimieTrkcrawf
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited December 2017
    Thought the movie played a lot of things very maturely. There weren't any parentage twists, it didn't feel fan pandering...it felt, grown up. I think the scene that exemplifies this the best was with Yoda and Luke. Having a teacher and his student sit together as equals and discuss the past was a) hella meta, but b) also just a wonderfully important moment for this series as it moves forward. It pays homage to what came before it, but it also knows enough to say it's okay to burn it all down and start afresh. 

    I really did enjoy it, my only quibbles 
    - 2nd act slump
    - Not enough Finn, not enough Finn/Rey (didn't realize how much I would miss their interaction)
    - Wasn't as fun and punchy as Awakens, but I enjoyed the darker "Empire" moments a lot. 

    And just for reference, i did not enjoy Rouge 1. If your gunna tell a story we all know, you need to make the characters extra interesting and their interactions feel meaningful and true. 
    RyanReesemanDaveyMacgguenotrkcrawf
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited December 2017
    @KingKobra

    Sorry you had to rewrite it so much. I hate that. I appreciate you doing it because I appreciate these conversations.

    Who’s to say these won’t be timeless movies for the young folks?

    No, that's now how I'm using the word "timeless." There's no "timeless for X amount of time." I'm talking about stories that resonate across generations. The Hero's Journey is a thing that does that, and no matter how much we try to subvert it (which is fine), it will always be resonant. TLJ had a hero's journey, so I'm not talking about that specific thing; just using an example of what I mean when I mean timeless. 

    It's always gonna feel bad when you don't answer questions. TFA did that, and it felt bad, but TLJ did it a LOT more. My impression of TLJ is that it raised more questions than it answered, and that's not "timeless" storytelling formula. You don't seem to be conceding this point at all, so I don't know what else to say. You just don't know story theory? Do I need to cite a source? You know I'm not pulling this out of my ass, right, and that scholars have analyzed stories throughout human history?

    Fan Fiction: you proved my point. You came up with how the story would be good to you. 

    No, I didn't prove your point. I acknowledged your evidence, but I argued that your evidence did not prove your point (that "writing fan fiction" leads to ill reception) when I said that "writing fan fiction" is not unnatural and is just a side effect of me engaging with a story. It's the writer's job to make sure my expectations don't lead to ill reception by managing the expectation-building to begin with. 

    You can only make reasonable arguments about how my expectations were unwarranted. Like this one...

    Luke: The problem is that there have been 30 years between the end of ROTJ and TFA.  

    We're just going to disagree about Luke and the nature of how much people change in their adulthood. Oh, the other thing we know about Luke from VII and going into VIII is that he's exiled himself to a Jedi temple. Even Mark Hamill (who has experienced how much change can happen to an adult in 30 years) disagreed with Luke's direction, someone who has studied the character more than most of us. So, I'm not off my fucking rocker here.

    Sure, I get him going crazy, but I think both of us don't mean "irrational, psychotic character" when we use the word "crazy." We mean eclectic. We can still expect him to behave according to some norms.

    ... the second time I enjoyed it much more.

    I can see that happening with me because the sadness is starting to pass. I felt like I couldn't give an honest review of TFA until 6 months had passed, and that will probably be the case with TLJ, especially given the controversy and the human tendency to dig trenches (from which none of us are immune). I enjoy The Phantom Menace! But it's still a shit movie. 

    @Alkaid13 - I didn't like Rogue One because the main characters weren't fleshed out enough and some of the side characters were laughably illogical. Also there are plot holes, which makes it really hard to follow or connect.
  • I think if you come into this movie with certain expectations and leave dissatisfied that’s not an invalid opinion, I personally never cared about those things so I was very satisfied but I understand other people weren’t and I get that. Like some people just disagree with how Luke would behave as a character and Mark Hamill probably agrees with those detractors, I’m fine with this direction for his character but that’s a valid argument to make. There’s definitely some plot holes and maybe some of the jokes are too much and etc. and those are all valid disagreements that I don’t personally care about which is why I like the movie. I think the only opinions that are actively idiotic and invalid are the fuck boys complaining about it being “too progressive” but who cares what they think. 
    rkcrawfKingKobraElisa
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited December 2017
    Alkaid13 said:
    I think if you come into this movie with certain expectations and leave dissatisfied that’s not an invalid opinion, I personally never cared about those things so I was very satisfied but I understand other people weren’t and I get that. Like some people just disagree with how Luke would behave as a character and Mark Hamill probably agrees with those detractors, I’m fine with this direction for his character but that’s a valid argument to make. There’s definitely some plot holes and maybe some of the jokes are too much and etc. and those are all valid disagreements that I don’t personally care about which is why I like the movie. I think the only opinions that are actively idiotic and invalid are the fuck boys complaining about it being “too progressive” but who cares what they think. 

    "Too progressive" as in it showed strong female leaders? (Stay with me.) And a male character not trusting them, and the perils of that? Maybe that's not what they mean.

    But I rather liked that storyline. FWIW. Since I keep saying negative things. Yes, it doesn't make perfect sense... it would be better if the leadership had simply told Poe what was going on, but end of day: he isn't entitled to an explanation. He shouldn't be the type of leader/fighter who can't shut up and take an order. And his plan to get someone to hack into the Imperial Cruiser (or whatever) did backfire and end up killing a lot of people. Does the leadership deserve losing lives in their organization just because they didn't tell their inferior what was going on? No. Poe was entitled. It's a good metaphor for what's going on in our current culture, with entitled men wreaking havoc on women. (Mostly women, some men.)

    Some holes in character development, yes, but it served a theme that resonates with me.

    Now, it's a shame ALL of the female characters were poorly developed and "strong." I could have used much more vulnerability from Rey.

    But with a B plot, yes absolutely do something risky there.
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited December 2017
    IT'S HERE IT'S FINALLY HERE.



    Although they will do a more formal critique of it later (whether it's positive or negative), as they do with all the SW films.
    rkcrawfaberry89
  • No I mean the guys complaining that white dudes are the villains and minorities/women are the heroes. 
    JaimieTElisa
  • edited December 2017
    Anybody read the petition that has been started to strike this movie from the official canon? LMAO

    Dude, this is already my favorite Star Wars movie, but if we can get rid of all of JJ’s stupid little mystery boxes AND purge the fanbase of large swaths of nerd-raging baby men in one fell swoop? It might just be the most important one as well.
    gguenotElisa
  • edited December 2017
    I had some serious spaceball vibes during the movie, I was especially waiting for Admiral Hux to order to go to  ludicrous speed and the combination of the security shield beeing 12345.





    Merchandising was in it a l lot for sure.






  • Kelly Marie Tran, who plays Rose, seems really cool. She was in a restaurant and the people at the table next to her were talking about the movie, she seems so excited when they start talking about Rose! Then she went over and said hi and took a picture with them.


    KingKobraElisa
  • In my ranking of Star Wars films this Episode 1 "making of" documentary is definitely above all the prequels. So many insane quotes/moments.


    JaimieTdarwinfeeshy
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    I think my main takeaway from the Red Letter Media review is... this situation is not going to improve. The fandom right now is like political rally levels of fanaticism. It's hype-hype-hype then a fraction of substance, and nothing but a glossy view of what happened backstage in the artistic process. I've lost all hope of honesty from this franchise. 

    It's time for this Star Wars fan... to end. 

    So I won't be calling myself a Star Wars fan anymore. I will continue to love the original trilogy and the characters, but I have no craving to see anything else that comes out of this universe. It's creatively bankrupt. It's uninspiring. 

    I knew this would happen eventually. All money-makers get smashed into a pulp nowadays. But I thought I'd get a good Episodes 7-9 out of this. Alas, I take my leave earlier than anticipated. 

    But I don't hate Disney.
    I was a Disney World annual passholder last year, and I will be again. I'll just avoid that part of the parks. 

  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited December 2017
    MrX said:
    In my ranking of Star Wars films this Episode 1 "making of" documentary is definitely above all the prequels. So many insane quotes/moments.



    Haha I loved watching this as a kid. They picked the worst Anakin!

    This and the Fellowship of the Ring extras, I watched all the time. 
    darwinfeeshy
  • Anybody read the petition that has been started to strike this movie from the official canon? LMAO

    Dude, this is already my favorite Star Wars movie, but if we can get rid of all of JJ’s stupid little mystery boxes AND purge the fanbase of large swaths of nerd-raging baby men in one fell swoop? It might just be the most important one as well.
    You might think the petition is silly. As someone who's not in love with the movie, I do too.

    That said, this is not how adults express themselves. Are you literally laughing? Mocking viewpoints you disagree with - and more importantly, those who hold those viewpoints, is not a substitute for offering rational objections to them. Let's try to disagree with one another with a little respect and/or dignity.
    JaimieT
  • michielterlouwmichielterlouw Helsinki
    edited December 2017
    Anybody read the petition that has been started to strike this movie from the official canon? LMAO
    Ha ha ha, what a bonkers thing to do. Normally I respect people with a silly viewpoint, but this is just too crazy. My my... a petition.
  • Anybody read the petition that has been started to strike this movie from the official canon? LMAO

    Dude, this is already my favorite Star Wars movie, but if we can get rid of all of JJ’s stupid little mystery boxes AND purge the fanbase of large swaths of nerd-raging baby men in one fell swoop? It might just be the most important one as well.
    That said, this is not how adults express themselves. Are you literally laughing? Mocking viewpoints you disagree with - and more importantly, those who hold those viewpoints, is not a substitute for offering rational objections to them. Let's try to disagree with one another with a little respect and/or dignity.
    I don't know man, just a few pages ago you passive-aggressively pretty much said to Ryan that while we can all disagree on TLJ, that people who loved it don't prefer higher art, making it look like you were implying that you have a higher taste pallette than people who loved TLJ.

    I do agree with you that people should treat each other with respect on differing opinions, but I ask you also examine how you're talking to people you disagree with, otherwise your advice rings a bit hollow. 


    gguenotFlukes
  • @Aww_PHuuCk being blunt isn't the same thing as ridicule or name calling.

    Also, I only asserted that some of us prefer our Star Wars to be more approaching high art than popcorn movies. That doesn't entail "high art" is better than popcorn. I prefer my Fast and Furious to be more popcorn than anything approaching high art. If they tried the latter, I wouldn't be interested. 
    JaimieT
  • Anybody read the petition that has been started to strike this movie from the official canon? LMAO

    Dude, this is already my favorite Star Wars movie, but if we can get rid of all of JJ’s stupid little mystery boxes AND purge the fanbase of large swaths of nerd-raging baby men in one fell swoop? It might just be the most important one as well.
    You might think the petition is silly. As someone who's not in love with the movie, I do too.

    That said, this is not how adults express themselves. Are you literally laughing? Mocking viewpoints you disagree with - and more importantly, those who hold those viewpoints, is not a substitute for offering rational objections to them. Let's try to disagree with one another with a little respect and/or dignity.
    I am absolutely laughing and mocking the viewpoints of melodramatic babies on the internet who create petitions to remove films from existence. 

    Jesus Christ I always wondered why I never allowed myself to fully commit to Star Wars fandom when all my other friends were just nuts about it. Bunch of overly-morose gatekeepers who can’t get past their own shitty hang-ups about something they enjoyed when they were 13.

    I am beyond excited if people like this are going to remove themselves from the equation going forward. 
    [Deleted User]
  • Anybody read the petition that has been started to strike this movie from the official canon? LMAO

    Dude, this is already my favorite Star Wars movie, but if we can get rid of all of JJ’s stupid little mystery boxes AND purge the fanbase of large swaths of nerd-raging baby men in one fell swoop? It might just be the most important one as well.
    You might think the petition is silly. As someone who's not in love with the movie, I do too.

    That said, this is not how adults express themselves. Are you literally laughing? Mocking viewpoints you disagree with - and more importantly, those who hold those viewpoints, is not a substitute for offering rational objections to them. Let's try to disagree with one another with a little respect and/or dignity.
    I am absolutely laughing and mocking the viewpoints of melodramatic babies on the internet who create petitions to remove films from existence. 

    Jesus Christ I always wondered why I never allowed myself to fully commit to Star Wars fandom when all my other friends were just nuts about it. Bunch of overly-morose gatekeepers who can’t get past their own shitty hang-ups about something they enjoyed when they were 13.

    I am beyond excited if people like this are going to remove themselves from the equation going forward. 
    It's been my (admittedly anecdotal) experience that this is neither a healthy nor useful way of approaching disagreements.
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    So much of these attitudes and arguments remind me of Donald Trump getting elected.
    JoshuaHeter
  • and downnnnnn the rabbit hole we go :/
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