The Last Jedi (Spoilers Section)

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Comments

  • KingKobra said:
    and downnnnnn the rabbit hole we go :/
    It's my fault. I apologize.
    rkcrawf
  • @Aww_PHuuCk being blunt isn't the same thing as ridicule or name calling.

    Also, I only asserted that some of us prefer our Star Wars to be more approaching high art than popcorn movies. That doesn't entail "high art" is better than popcorn. I prefer my Fast and Furious to be more popcorn than anything approaching high art. If they tried the latter, I wouldn't be interested. 
    Ok, that does clarify it better. In that case then, I still do think the term "high art" was the wrong one to throw around when trying to express the difference between there being more modern humor in TLJ than the original trilogy. I could go on to more detailed reasons if you want me to, but I think some people in here already touched upon it and don't want to bore you unnecessarily.

    Maybe the thing you were looking to say was you just don't prefer SW using humor that doesn't seem to fit a galaxy that's from a long time ago and far far away. 
    JoshuaHeter
  • There’s always one womp-womp hot take about “This is why Donald Trump was elected.” 

    Whats the internet rule about Hitler? Do we have one for ole Donnie yet?
    Elisa
  • Anybody read the petition that has been started to strike this movie from the official canon? LMAO

    Dude, this is already my favorite Star Wars movie, but if we can get rid of all of JJ’s stupid little mystery boxes AND purge the fanbase of large swaths of nerd-raging baby men in one fell swoop? It might just be the most important one as well.
    You might think the petition is silly. As someone who's not in love with the movie, I do too.

    That said, this is not how adults express themselves. Are you literally laughing? Mocking viewpoints you disagree with - and more importantly, those who hold those viewpoints, is not a substitute for offering rational objections to them. Let's try to disagree with one another with a little respect and/or dignity.
    I am absolutely laughing and mocking the viewpoints of melodramatic babies on the internet who create petitions to remove films from existence. 

    Jesus Christ I always wondered why I never allowed myself to fully commit to Star Wars fandom when all my other friends were just nuts about it. Bunch of overly-morose gatekeepers who can’t get past their own shitty hang-ups about something they enjoyed when they were 13.

    I am beyond excited if people like this are going to remove themselves from the equation going forward. 
    People just get silly. Ignore it. Don't get too excited about them leaving though. If there's one thing I've learned, the people who hate Star Wars most are Star Wars fans, and are always coming back for next installment. 
    Elisa
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Anybody read the petition that has been started to strike this movie from the official canon? LMAO

    Dude, this is already my favorite Star Wars movie, but if we can get rid of all of JJ’s stupid little mystery boxes AND purge the fanbase of large swaths of nerd-raging baby men in one fell swoop? It might just be the most important one as well.
    You might think the petition is silly. As someone who's not in love with the movie, I do too.

    That said, this is not how adults express themselves. Are you literally laughing? Mocking viewpoints you disagree with - and more importantly, those who hold those viewpoints, is not a substitute for offering rational objections to them. Let's try to disagree with one another with a little respect and/or dignity.
    I am absolutely laughing and mocking the viewpoints of melodramatic babies on the internet who create petitions to remove films from existence. 

    Jesus Christ I always wondered why I never allowed myself to fully commit to Star Wars fandom when all my other friends were just nuts about it. Bunch of overly-morose gatekeepers who can’t get past their own shitty hang-ups about something they enjoyed when they were 13.

    I am beyond excited if people like this are going to remove themselves from the equation going forward. 
    People just get silly. Ignore it. Don't get too excited about them leaving though. If there's one thing I've learned, the people who hate Star Wars most are Star Wars fans, and are always coming back for next installment. 

    Yeah, we're angsty about downgrading our liking of something from 95% to 50%, or what have you. Did you see the documentary The People vs. George Lucas? It's an interesting examination of how prequels/sequels can change existing stories, and how people feel some ownership over existing stories. Don't they log in the brain similarly to memories, for some of us? It's inherently upsetting. The more upset someone is, the more they cared. But the 80s are back in style and it isn't cool to care.
    Saraetta
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    KingKobra said:
    and downnnnnn the rabbit hole we go :/

    Rabbit holes are as rabbit holes do. 
  • One thing that has consistently surprised me about almost every take on TLJ, positive or not--no one seems to be factoring in the whole Disney aspect, as in, Disney knows how many movies they want to make, so we're kinda like Poe, bitching and moaning because we don't know the plan...  Please don't take this post as my attempt to forgive or excuse or explain anything particular about TLJ, I just don't know why that whole thing seems to be largely forgotten, ESPECIALLY after we've watched Marvel Studios (also owned by Disney) do their franchise thing.  

    I kind of wish that Disney would totally ditch the "episode" format.  Seriously, if you think of Revenge of the Sith, Rogue One, and A New Hope each as a standalone anthology movie, they *kind of* work as a trilogy; a Death Star Trilogy, if you will.  Suddenly it doesn't matter nearly so much that Anakin + Padme sucks so badly in Attack of the Clones; the entire awkward "romance" just is there from the start.  We'd be way less encumbered by specific expectations/feeling butthurt, IMO, if each movie was simply a Star Wars movie.
    Saraetta
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Melia004 said:
    One thing that has consistently surprised me about almost every take on TLJ, positive or not--no one seems to be factoring in the whole Disney aspect, as in, Disney knows how many movies they want to make, so we're kinda like Poe, bitching and moaning because we don't know the plan...  Please don't take this post as my attempt to forgive or excuse or explain anything particular about TLJ, I just don't know why that whole thing seems to be largely forgotten, ESPECIALLY after we've watched Marvel Studios (also owned by Disney) do their franchise thing.  

    I can definitely do some yakking about Disney. Like the casino planet? You know they need more settings like that for Star Wars Land(TM) in Hollywood Studios(TM), right? And also the Star Wars Resort(TM)? They're giving storylines to every guest that arrives, adults and children alike. So they need storylines for children that connect to the movies. So we get kids who work on the casino planet, helping with the horse-bunnies, and one of them is a Force user. There'll be kids on Jakku maybe, but they need different options. Preferably options where an entire family can be involved in the same setting, and assigned a themed hotel room accordingly. 

    Then there are restaurants, rides, etc. Bars. 

    Let's NOT criticize the casino planet for income inequality or unfair wages, but um... weapons manufacturing, yeah. Disney doesn't have money in that. And freeing one enslaved animal is what the Rebellion is all about, yeah! Come to Animal Kingdom(TM) with a $160 park-hopper ticket.

    And ANYBODY can be special! See the brand new Happily Ever After fireworks show at Magic Kingdom(TM), and consider a +$125 After Hours upgrade to catch some extra rides.

    - Thoughts From a Former Annual Passholder
    Melia004
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Keep it nice, people. This isn’t Reddit. 
    gguenotAlkaid13voodooratAww_PHuuCkKingKobraElisaweeniegirl
  • I mean, the good thing about Star Wars is that there’s 9 movies and lots of spin offs so you can always just decide which parts make sense to you and ignore the rest. 
    ElisaSaraetta
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited December 2017
    Alkaid13 said:
    I mean, the good thing about Star Wars is that there’s 9 movies and lots of spin offs so you can always just decide which parts make sense to you and ignore the rest. 

    Yep, that's what it is now. I'm a huge Disney Princess fan and I enjoy the Disney Channel show Elena of Avalor. It's just rehashed ideas and passable musical numbers and feel-good fluff. That's Star Wars now. The original trilogy, that's something else, that's like Aladdin or Beauty and the Beast or The Little Mermaid.

    Yep, Star Wars = Elena of Avalor. 

    I'm even cosplaying as her next year. I spent $150 on just the fabric. 
    JoshuaHeterElisa
  • Thought TFA was fine, but TLJ was less than that. It's interesting, but I've incorporated the PT into my canon, at least in some ways. So I guess TFA and TLJ might get in there too, eventually. But when it comes down to, SW for me is 4-6, and really mostly 5

    But similar to JaimieT, I'm losing my emotional attachment to most of the saga. Which is fine. I feel similarly to Star Trek, where I haven't seen all of VOY, missed a few eps of Enterprise, and haven't even watched Discovery yet.... And also while I've seen pretty much all of Doctor Who, I like the 1963<1989 stuff more, for all the ups and downs, than the 2005+ stuff. My sensibilities of what make for good TV just haven't caught up with the times in a lot of ways, and I'm OK with that.
    JoshuaHeterJaimieT
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited December 2017
    Just got back from watching it again. I really enjoyed everything except the Finn/rose/casino plot. 

    It it feels like we are getting the Vader origin story we should have got in the prequels with Ren. I’m really liking his progression(or lack of depending on your view). 

    The Luke stuff was great. I don’t think it was a disservice of his character. At all. The dusting off thing is not that bad. Luke was playing on Ren’s uncontrollable rage and gloating him into his plan.

    the chrome dome is stupid but really? Every movie has bad lines. While on Phasma lots of people complaining they wasted her but she got more screen time and action than Boba Fett. 

    The chase scene was believable and actually refreshing that the stakes were high in terms of valuable people and the resistance but Low in overall stake for planets/galaxies/etc. 

    It definitely was different and they warned everyone so I’m actually impressed with the Snoke and Rey parents stuff.

    plus it was just a gorgeous movie and some of the best scenes in Star Wars.

    Overall I would give it a closer score to the critics than the fans. 
    Melia004KingKobraDaveyMacAww_PHuuCkElisaweeniegirl
  • Hearing that people are creating bots to create such a low fan score. Probably not true, but wouldn’t be surprised this day and age
  • The best part of all this ridiculous immaturity is it’s sparking debate and chatter which encourages more to see the movie or see it again. So, yeah, in your face! Lol
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Re: Luke

    It's not that I don't think he'd become curmudgeonly, discouraged, despairing, and even adamant about destroying something he once cherished. It's that I don't see a person like that (1) making light-hearted jokes and (2) being flakey with someone with the potential to either become him or the thing he fears, all the while making light-hearted jokes. I needed more dialogue with Rey from him, for his transformation to feel real. Him showing no concern for her as a person, treating her like a warm body who can influence the Force, was almost sociopathic. Did he develop autism? Is he misogynistic? Or maybe he has become a sociopath. But that doesn't make much sense, and it isn't very compelling. We've seen him endure trauma before and still retain his soul.

    TL;DR: It's fine to be disenchanted, but showing signs of clinical antisocial disorder needs more explanation.
  • I thought the movie was good, not great.

    I think the internet debates it has spawned are tiresome and dumb. Debating the merits of the movie are fine, but we're now at the point of the cycle where one side is screaming at the top of their lungs that if you don't like it, you just don't like good movies or you're an irredeemable fanboy, and the other side is screaming about how it ruined star wars and no true fan could like it. 

    Both sides need to give it a rest. 
    voodoorat
  • JaimieT said:
    Re: Luke

    It's not that I don't think he'd become curmudgeonly, discouraged, despairing, and even adamant about destroying something he once cherished. It's that I don't see a person like that (1) making light-hearted jokes and (2) being flakey with someone with the potential to either become him or the thing he fears, all the while making light-hearted jokes. I needed more dialogue with Rey from him, for his transformation to feel real. Him showing no concern for her as a person, treating her like a warm body who can influence the Force, was almost sociopathic. Did he develop autism? Is he misogynistic? Or maybe he has become a sociopath. But that doesn't make much sense, and it isn't very compelling. We've seen him endure trauma before and still retain his soul.

    TL;DR: It's fine to be disenchanted, but showing signs of clinical antisocial disorder needs more explanation.
    You mean like Yoda treated him? Without Ben showing up, Yoda May have continued to be “crazy”. Of course Yoda does have a few hundred years of living under his belt as well ;)
  • JaimieT said:
    Re: Luke

    It's not that I don't think he'd become curmudgeonly, discouraged, despairing, and even adamant about destroying something he once cherished. It's that I don't see a person like that (1) making light-hearted jokes and (2) being flakey with someone with the potential to either become him or the thing he fears, all the while making light-hearted jokes. I needed more dialogue with Rey from him, for his transformation to feel real. Him showing no concern for her as a person, treating her like a warm body who can influence the Force, was almost sociopathic. Did he develop autism? Is he misogynistic? Or maybe he has become a sociopath. But that doesn't make much sense, and it isn't very compelling. We've seen him endure trauma before and still retain his soul.

    TL;DR: It's fine to be disenchanted, but showing signs of clinical antisocial disorder needs more explanation.
    Most people would probably develop an antisocial disorder if they spent the last 10-20 years on a rocky island drinking blue sea cow milk with only judgemental lizard nuns for companions.

    Seriously though, I think they put down plenty of backstory for where he is now. Post Return of the Jedi, Luke is an ambitious Jedi master and starts a school. Realizes he's in over his head when his best student (who is also his nephew) is strong w/ the dark side, can't control him, gets a bunch of young padawans killed and the rest join the reincarnation of the Empire. Decides he has done more harm than good, goes to rock island, over the years becomes a bitter hermit. Which is how we meet him when he intersects w/ Rey's story. Worked 100% for me.
    [Deleted User]KingKobraFlukesElisaweeniegirl
  • JaimieT said:
    Re: Luke

    It's not that I don't think he'd become curmudgeonly, discouraged, despairing, and even adamant about destroying something he once cherished. It's that I don't see a person like that (1) making light-hearted jokes and (2) being flakey with someone with the potential to either become him or the thing he fears, all the while making light-hearted jokes. I needed more dialogue with Rey from him, for his transformation to feel real. Him showing no concern for her as a person, treating her like a warm body who can influence the Force, was almost sociopathic. Did he develop autism? Is he misogynistic? Or maybe he has become a sociopath. But that doesn't make much sense, and it isn't very compelling. We've seen him endure trauma before and still retain his soul.

    TL;DR: It's fine to be disenchanted, but showing signs of clinical antisocial disorder needs more explanation.
    Honest question...Do you think he would ever consider (momentarily) to kill his nephew, the only son of the only two people that he loves? 

    I don't think the guy who waded into Cloud City to rescue them, into Jabba's palace to rescue them, and into the Death Star to turn his father (which he did successfully), would try to kill Kylo in his sleep or stay in exile while Leia was in immediate danger?
    voodoorat
  • The part that didn't work for me was how Luke at least contemplated murdering his nephew in his sleep.
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    KingKobra said:
    JaimieT said:
    Re: Luke

    It's not that I don't think he'd become curmudgeonly, discouraged, despairing, and even adamant about destroying something he once cherished. It's that I don't see a person like that (1) making light-hearted jokes and (2) being flakey with someone with the potential to either become him or the thing he fears, all the while making light-hearted jokes. I needed more dialogue with Rey from him, for his transformation to feel real. Him showing no concern for her as a person, treating her like a warm body who can influence the Force, was almost sociopathic. Did he develop autism? Is he misogynistic? Or maybe he has become a sociopath. But that doesn't make much sense, and it isn't very compelling. We've seen him endure trauma before and still retain his soul.

    TL;DR: It's fine to be disenchanted, but showing signs of clinical antisocial disorder needs more explanation.
    You mean like Yoda treated him? Without Ben showing up, Yoda May have continued to be “crazy”. Of course Yoda does have a few hundred years of living under his belt as well ;)

    Yoda treated him that way as a test. "I cannot train him. The boy has no patience." Ben showed up as a response to Yoda. And nothing about Luke's actions indicated that he was giving Rey the same treatment. IE, "It's time for the Jedi to end," which he followed through with. 
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited December 2017
    MrX said:
    JaimieT said:
    Re: Luke

    It's not that I don't think he'd become curmudgeonly, discouraged, despairing, and even adamant about destroying something he once cherished. It's that I don't see a person like that (1) making light-hearted jokes and (2) being flakey with someone with the potential to either become him or the thing he fears, all the while making light-hearted jokes. I needed more dialogue with Rey from him, for his transformation to feel real. Him showing no concern for her as a person, treating her like a warm body who can influence the Force, was almost sociopathic. Did he develop autism? Is he misogynistic? Or maybe he has become a sociopath. But that doesn't make much sense, and it isn't very compelling. We've seen him endure trauma before and still retain his soul.

    TL;DR: It's fine to be disenchanted, but showing signs of clinical antisocial disorder needs more explanation.
    Most people would probably develop an antisocial disorder if they spent the last 10-20 years on a rocky island drinking blue sea cow milk with only judgemental lizard nuns for companions.

    Seriously though, I think they put down plenty of backstory for where he is now. Post Return of the Jedi, Luke is an ambitious Jedi master and starts a school. Realizes he's in over his head when his best student (who is also his nephew) is strong w/ the dark side, can't control him, gets a bunch of young padawans killed and the rest join the reincarnation of the Empire. Decides he has done more harm than good, goes to rock island, over the years becomes a bitter hermit. Which is how we meet him when he intersects w/ Rey's story. Worked 100% for me.

    I'm not disagreeing with the backstory leading to his disenchantment. (And didn't I write something to that effect?) I'm saying that Rian Johnson didn't execute it well at all. 

    "Most people would probably develop an antisocial disorder if they spent the last 10-20 years on a rocky island drinking blue sea cow milk with only judgemental lizard nuns for companions."

    While remaining so in touch with his past friends (Yoda, R2) and retaining a keenly honed sense of humor, yep!
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    rkcrawf said:
    JaimieT said:
    Re: Luke

    It's not that I don't think he'd become curmudgeonly, discouraged, despairing, and even adamant about destroying something he once cherished. It's that I don't see a person like that (1) making light-hearted jokes and (2) being flakey with someone with the potential to either become him or the thing he fears, all the while making light-hearted jokes. I needed more dialogue with Rey from him, for his transformation to feel real. Him showing no concern for her as a person, treating her like a warm body who can influence the Force, was almost sociopathic. Did he develop autism? Is he misogynistic? Or maybe he has become a sociopath. But that doesn't make much sense, and it isn't very compelling. We've seen him endure trauma before and still retain his soul.

    TL;DR: It's fine to be disenchanted, but showing signs of clinical antisocial disorder needs more explanation.
    Honest question...Do you think he would ever consider (momentarily) to kill his nephew, the only son of the only two people that he loves? 

    I don't think the guy who waded into Cloud City to rescue them, into Jabba's palace to rescue them, and into the Death Star to turn his father (which he did successfully), would try to kill Kylo in his sleep or stay in exile while Leia was in immediate danger?

    Would he ever consider killing his nephew? I don't know. I haven't seen what led up to that. My major quibble is that he was fucking all-over-the-place with the direction they took. 
    JoshuaHeter
  • the RLM review brought sominto focus that's felt off for me, which is Rey's rejection of Ren's offer.  Everything in the film seems to be engineered to get us to that offer, and the point of all of the story lines seem to be building to Rey accepting his offer and the two of them creating a new paradigm in the Star Wars universe.  I imagine a different cut of the film ends there, where all of the resistance's attempts at escape and survival have failed, and what saves them is Rey becoming the co-supreme leader.  I have no idea what the third film would look like in that case, but I'd be interested to see it. 
    rkcrawf
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Stackpile said:
    the RLM review brought sominto focus that's felt off for me, which is Rey's rejection of Ren's offer.  Everything in the film seems to be engineered to get us to that offer, and the point of all of the story lines seem to be building to Rey accepting his offer and the two of them creating a new paradigm in the Star Wars universe.  I imagine a different cut of the film ends there, where all of the resistance's attempts at escape and survival have failed, and what saves them is Rey becoming the co-supreme leader.  I have no idea what the third film would look like in that case, but I'd be interested to see it. 

    YES. And then at least she's still a fleshed-out character who didn't forget how long she's been pining for belonging. I was ready for him to accept his offer too (and I didn't see the trailer, so no expectations!), although I didn't want her to be evil... 

    That's the thing; all these people saying this Star Wars was subversive... it wasn't really. 

    And Yoda in EMB already showed us you don't have to be special to be a Jedi, so it wasn't even saying anything new.

    It was just a mess of a movie.
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Guys, I just want to stress you can be great even if you come from some nobody family.

    Also Kylo Ren is the most interesting character.
    rkcrawf
  • The whole idea of Rey being no one as a subversion of expectations is also nonsense. Anakin was the son of a single mother who was a slave.
    JaimieTElisa
  • The whole idea of Rey being no one as a subversion of expectations is also nonsense. Anakin was the son of a single mother who was a slave.
    Who was LITERALLY A FORCE JESUS. Did we forget that it was a virgin birth? He was apparently created by the medi-whateverthefucks? Being ACTUAL JESUS is pretty far from being no one. 
    Aww_PHuuCkElisa
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