Dark (2017) - Spoilers and discussions

I'm pretty new to this forum thing so i don't really know where to start. There is another forum post about the show in general but i want to dedicate this one to spoilers. I just want a place to discuss this awesome show. For those of you not in the know Dark is pretty damn compelling show on Netflix. If you haven't watched it yet, what are you doing here!? Clearly, you made a wrong turn somewhere. Go to Netflix and binge. We'll be here when you get back. 

Now that we got that out of the way. Lets get into the real nit and gritty. SPOILERS inbound.

What the heck is going on. First, Lets all agree that Helge got the short end of the time-travel lottery. But the ending involving kid Helge going into 1986. Does that mean that the coarse of history has changed? Or is it predestined, like the rest of the show seems to imply? 

Second- What do you think happened to Old Jonas? Did he just cease to exist?

Third- Jonas in Future, what now?

Fourth- Hannah Kahnwald (Jonas' mom) is an evil, manipulative, crazy, PoS. That is all.

Fifth- Will Ulrich return to his original time?

Sixth- Is Father Noah future Bartosz? I got a feeling he is

There is more i would like to ask but this should be a good start. feel free to ask your own questions or discussion topics.

P.S. if we can somehow get Jim and A. Ron to watch and podcast this show. That would be amazing.
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Comments

  • @Ahmed_R A.Ron said in a lunch recently that Cecily talked him into checking out the pilot and found it to be good enough to watch the whole thing, so if that happened, my guess is there will be at least a Bald Move TV episode about it.

    Anyway, I won't even attempt to theorize on your questions, lol, but I'll throw in my two observations I wrote down in the other thread previously:

    1. Still not buying that Helge had a child with his mental state, and no introduced love interest either. My guess is his son is a rescued time travel child, but who?

    2. Alexander (Regina's husband) has got to be also a time traveller (most likely from the future). And his original name, Boris Niewald must be a mashup of Nielsen+Kahnwald.
    ElisaAhmed_RGiovanni
  • LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    No answers for your comments, but good questions. I want to re watch, and draw a map like they show. It drew me in hook line and sinker. 
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Ahmed_R said:
    I'm pretty new to this forum thing so i don't really know where to start. There is another forum post about the show in general but i want to dedicate this one to spoilers. I just want a place to discuss this awesome show. For those of you not in the know Dark is pretty damn compelling show on Netflix. If you haven't watched it yet, what are you doing here!? Clearly, you made a wrong turn somewhere. Go to Netflix and binge. We'll be here when you get back. 

    Now that we got that out of the way. Lets get into the real nit and gritty. SPOILERS inbound.

    What the heck is going on. First, Lets all agree that Helge got the short end of the time-travel lottery. But the ending involving kid Helge going into 1986. Does that mean that the coarse of history has changed? Or is it predestined, like the rest of the show seems to imply? 

    Second- What do you think happened to Old Jonas? Did he just cease to exist?

    Third- Jonas in Future, what now?

    Fourth- Hannah Kahnwald (Jonas' mom) is an evil, manipulative, crazy, PoS. That is all.

    Fifth- Will Ulrich return to his original time?

    Sixth- Is Father Noah future Bartosz? I got a feeling he is

    There is more i would like to ask but this should be a good start. feel free to ask your own questions or discussion topics.

    P.S. if we can somehow get Jim and A. Ron to watch and podcast this show. That would be amazing.

    ************ Going to attempt to answer your questions or at least discuss more.

    ONE- My understanding is that they were stuck in a time loop and that predestination was involved.  Who started everything? Ulrich? Claudia? Old Jonas? Noah? We don't know for certain.  Helge and others like young Jonah and Ulrich try and go back to change things, but either fate takes over or Claudia or Noah stop them from changing things.

    TWO- I think OLD Jonas might have blew up the power plant and started the whole dystopian society and viscious cycle again.  Young Jonas is still alive and so Old Jonas could live again at some point.

    THREE - I think Young Jonas will try to change things again, now that he is in the future.  I don't know but that young girl on the tank looked like his Ma, a young Hannah.

    FOUR- Agreed lol

    FIVE - I think Ulrich is stuck in 1953.

    SIX - I thought this for a moment, but I believe Noah has blue eyes and Bartosz has brown eyes, so no.

    Here's to a marvelous Bald Move TV on DARK.
    Giovanni
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Reni said:
    @Ahmed_R A.Ron said in a lunch recently that Cecily talked him into checking out the pilot and found it to be good enough to watch the whole thing, so if that happened, my guess is there will be at least a Bald Move TV episode about it.

    Anyway, I won't even attempt to theorize on your questions, lol, but I'll throw in my two observations I wrote down in the other thread previously:

    1. Still not buying that Helge had a child with his mental state, and no introduced love interest either. My guess is his son is a rescued time travel child, but who?

    2. Alexander (Regina's husband) has got to be also a time traveller (most likely from the future). And his original name, Boris Niewald must be a mashup of Nielsen+Kahnwald.
    Great ideas and insight.  The other odd thing about Alexander is he also has that Emerald Tablet and tri-circular Celtic ruin/marking tatooed on his back, like Noah.  Hmmm....
    Giovanni
  • @Reni That is actually very interesting. 

    1) That could be possible. My only issue with this is that i don't think Helge could pull one over on Noah.  Noah seems like the type of guy to have complete control of a situation. I like this theory a lot though so i hope to see something like this happen.

    2) Alexander being from the future is pretty interesting too. I thought this at first too. would be awesome to get incite on this. Especially since he seemed genuinely afraid of Hannah. Though i wouldn't be surprised if this was just another red hearing. This show likes to throw a lot of those
    ReniElisa
  • @Elisa Thanks for trying to answer all of my questions, I know there is a lot of those lol. I just wanna ask why you think Ulrich is stuck in the past? It would seem wasteful to have him stuck there.
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    I just think it’s karma. He was a shit teenager who was an asshole to everyone, even though his brother disappeared and his mom went bonkers. Later in life Ulrich screwed around with Hannah ignoring his home life. Then he Loses his son and his family falls apart. Then he goes to the past and tries to change the future by killing a little kid, Helge. Lol Ulrich finally gets what he deserves - a prisoner in the past. 
    Giovanni
  • CecilyCecily Cincinnati
    I want to bring this thread back to life because I am going to try to pitch Jim and A.Ron in watching it on Bald Move TV; especially since Season 2 premiered on Netflix today.  I feel like Stefan from SNL when I say this but this show has everything.  (*covers mouth*) It has time-traveling serial killers, Saw-style murder puzzle devices, incest, teens having  drugs and doing sex, an intense spectrum of human emotion, and all the slaps you could ever want.  

    I am not starting Season 2 yet, so please start a thread if you're also watching and you have thoughts!  I'll join you in ~33 years, give or take.
    Dummyrustywright4CapeGabekuman07DoubleA_RonElisamkcbunnyGiovanniStanley_H_Tweedle
  • kuman07kuman07 Kansas City
    I had no idea this dropped today, thanks for the heads up! Love this show.
    Elisa
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    The wife and I loved this when it dropped back in...2017? She has been reminding me that season 2 drops this week, so I assume we are watching that this weekend at some point. I'm definitely going to have to watch the last couple of episodes from season 1, because I remember it got pretty twisty-turny late in the season. Although I'm going to claim a few ePoints and by pointing out that I tooooootally called the tall dark stranger guy being the grown up version Jonas early on.

    We tried the dub, but neither of us could handle it. Aside from the words and lips being out of sync, hearing someone that sounds like Tommy Wiseau speaking English delivering dramatic dialogue just takes me out of it.

    So, we turned on the original german language and did subtitles. So much better.
    ElisaCapeGabe
  • I'm with Cecily!
    My one work review of Dark is "Profound."

    It's like Mr Robot season 1, Strange Things, but BETTER! It's grounded with compelling characters and great dramatic acting--especially the teenagers.  Add to that a phenomenal casting job of character across 3 generations and 3 time periods. Who look like the same person and belong to the same family

    i've never seen a time travel story that is this flawless. Plus a bit of theology, free-will vs predestination, Faust, Grimm's Tales, and 1980s music. It keeps you wondering, and guessing, and each answer spirals into more questions. 

    As far as subtitles; it's actually not as bad because there's quite a bit of quiet scenes, watching what someone is doing, their expressions alone tell the story.  On a second watch, you pick up so many more details, knowing/guessing how things fit together.

    Already finished Season 2 in non-stop viewing.

    ElisaStanley_H_Tweedlemkcbunnypollyseeds
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    I just downloaded all season 2 for my train commute next week. I just completed a rewatch of season 1. This show is so excellent. There are so many themes and arcs. The characters make the show along with the dramatic turns and cyclical nature of time, fate and destiny. The showrunners have stated it is a three season arc. 
    mkcbunnyStanley_H_Tweedle
  • I am so excited to check out Season 2. We started this when we were in Germany in 2017, and then when we came home to the US, it wasn't on Netflix here yet. So we thought we'd never get to see more--and then it showed up here. Also, regarding the subtitle issue, I LOVE subtitles because they mean I can't multi-task. It's so easy when busy to try and do more than one thing at a time, but the subtitles mean forced total immersion. And @Cecily, I agree about having them on for English shows, too. We pretty much have them on all the time for everything.
    Elisa
  • Re-watching Season 1, and the date that comes up right at the beginning is June 21, 2019. The same day Season 2 was released. 
    ElisaCecilymkcbunny
  • I love that market connection. Plus, releasing "Dark" on the Summer Solstice.
    I wonder if Season 3 will be June 26, 2020?

    This show could easily have it's own podcast  download "channel"
    FIRST VIEWING of each episode.
    REWATCH each episode after a season is complete.
    Then FINAL VIEWING once Season 3 is complete.

    I've yet to find any good English podcasts dedicated to the series.
    Elisa
  • My new favorite TV series. I haven't seen time travel done this well since the movie Primer. I finished season 2 tonight, and the quality was just as good as the first. This show needs Bald Move to cover it. There is just so much going on in each episode it is crazy, and it would be great to hear a discussion on it. 
    ElisaStanley_H_Tweedlemkcbunny
  • I really like this show. Bald Move should cover it. But I understand, to watch 18 episodes for one podcast episode is not efficient.

    I'm German and I hate 99% of German TV. This is one of the few exceptions.
    Only the original "Das Boot" from 1981 is on the same level. In addition to the movie, we had a 6-part TV series of "Das Boot" that used the same footage as the movie, just more of it.

    This level of quality is very rare in German TV shows.

    What I will never understand are the issues people have with dubbed shows not being in-sync. In many countries that is the way all American & British TV has been watched for decades.
    I understand that the dubbed version is not as authentic and maybe the voice actors are bad, but not being in-sync would be one of the least issues for me. If you don't like subtitles, choose the dubbed version.

    But I shouldn't "should" people. Everyone has his own tastes and dislikes.

    So if you like well made time travel stories, try this show.
    Elisa
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    I listened to Sci-fi TV Rewatch in between episodes when I rewatched season 1 of Dark. They are pretty good. They mentioned they would cover Season 2. 
  • I think it’s safe to say that this is the wildest show in the history of television.
    Elisa
  • Just finished Season 2. If you’re a fan of science fiction and you’re not watching this show then I just don’t know what you’re doing. 
    ElisaCecilymkcbunnyMajorMalfunction
  • I'm German and I hate 99% of German TV. This is one of the few exceptions.

    Hi Stanley, you're the perfect person for my question.  
    I was curious how famous the cast members are in Germany film/TV? From an American POV, Sylvester Groth is the only one I recognize right away. Is this an "A-Level" superstar cast, an average mix of known actors, or mostly unknowns? 

    They've done a amazing job casting different actors across generations, so I was a little surprised what they did with Oliver Masucci in Season 2. (trying not to spoil)  I'm assuming he's a big name, and they wanted to give him as much screen time as possible, but I felt like it slightly cheapened in integrity of this amazing series.

    Louis Hofmann is excellent, playing 3 slightly different Jonas versions; a pleasant surprise to see "Pre-Season 1" happy Jonas!  

    My new favorite is Jördis Triebel (Katharina). She's a force to be reckoned with!
  • drumore said:

    Hi Stanley, you're the perfect person for my question.  
    I was curious how famous the cast members are in Germany film/TV? From an American POV, Sylvester Groth is the only one I recognize right away. Is this an "A-Level" superstar cast, an average mix of known actors, or mostly unknowns? 

    They've done a amazing job casting different actors across generations, so I was a little surprised what they did with Oliver Masucci in Season 2. (trying not to spoil)  I'm assuming he's a big name, and they wanted to give him as much screen time as possible, but I felt like it slightly cheapened in integrity of this amazing series.

    Louis Hofmann is excellent, playing 3 slightly different Jonas versions; a pleasant surprise to see "Pre-Season 1" happy Jonas!  

    My new favorite is Jördis Triebel (Katharina). She's a force to be reckoned with!
    Hi drumore,

    probably I'm not the right person to answer that, since I'm not watching German TV anymore, for several years now.
    I have seen some of the older cast, but couldn't tell you their names. The younger cast members are all unknown to me.

    Oliver Mascucci I have certainly seen in things (e.g. "Er ist wieder da") Jördis Triebel too (e.g. "Babylon Berlin") Maja Schöne, Angela Winkler and Karoline Eichhorn also. Many of them play regularly in German crime series (e.g. "Tatort") which are very popular in Germany. Some of the actors were in "Red Sparrow".

    Sorry I'm spoilt by American TV. German TV is not very good most of the time. So I lack any current knowledge about German actors.
    But this also makes this show very fresh for me. The acting in Dark is mostly very good. Maybe some of the teenagers are a little wooden sometimes. The story is, what makes this an excellent show.

    I'm sorry about my disappointing answer. Most of the older cast are certainly to be considered accomplished actors. Some even locally famous. I just lack the knowledge about them.

    Elisa
  • thanks for the info!  
    Although I just discovered my original proposition, was completely wrong!

    Now that IMDB is fully updated, I realized it wasn't Masucci as older Ulrich. It's Winfried Glatzder. With the long-haired wig, it really seemed like the same actor!  LOL
    Elisa
  • I think it’s safe to say that this is the wildest show in the history of television.
    Legion is pretty wild. Twin Peaks 2 was about as mind-blowing as can be. All very different shows though.
    Elisa
  • drumore said:
    thanks for the info!  
    Although I just discovered my original proposition, was completely wrong!

    Now that IMDB is fully updated, I realized it wasn't Masucci as older Ulrich. It's Winfried Glatzder. With the long-haired wig, it really seemed like the same actor!  LOL
    I thought that too for a little while, but I was unsure. So I looked it up on imdb and saw it was a different actor. Other people had similar experiences. You are not the only one.
    Elisa
  • MFGMFG
    edited July 11
    Just finished watching all of it for the third time. I can't say how much I enjoy this show. I love all the attention to detail and how you keep discovering new things on every rewatch. For example, how old Jonas has the neckwound marks already in early season 1. Or the whole time loop of Old Tannhaus telling adult Claudia something in 1986, something that he could only know because Claudia's older self told him 33 years earlier after she travelled back in time.

    I find myself constantly pausing, putting down the tablet and mind wandering about how a character got here, why and whom they are trying to stop from doing what and how it probably all is going to end in a self fullfilling prophecy again anyway :D If the writers don't mess anything up with the last season next year, this may enter my all time top 5.

    @drumore already said it, it's like Mr Robot and Stranger Things but better... I really hope Cecily will convince the guys to cover Dark. They love Looper and Primer and I would love to hear them talk endlessly about bootstrap paradoxes, other worlds and give a complete account of all the times the time machine changed hands so that even I can convince myself that it really is only one time machine, as the writers claim ;)
    ElisaCecilyEine Frau
  • Its one of the best shows I've seen in a long time. Floored me. Might even break my top 10 all time, but I need to get a little time away from it to ward of recency bias before I can be sure.
    Elisa
  • I really enjoyed both seasons of Dark and I think it's ripe for a good podcast. Right now I can't find any quality discussion absent reddit.
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    I’ve been listening to sci tv rewatch podcast. They covered season 1 and are doing a week to week episode pod for season 2. They do a pretty good job. 
  • Just finished Season Two. Wow, Hannah is one cruel crazy bitch. Ulrich gets mentally tortured more than Job the whole series.
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