Black Panther Spoilers

Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
edited February 18 in Movies
Discuss the 2018 movie Black Panther here. 
If you haven’t seen this movie, what are you doing? Go watch it. 
Seriously don’t read this thread until you’ve seen this movie. I don’t care if you’ve never seen a Marvel movie and hate superhero movies, you should watch this movie. 

Spoilers abound. 
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Comments

  • This movie is dope as shit. 
    hocuspocusnoirphoenyx1023ElSkid
  • Highlights: literally everything; the scenes, the characters, the villain, the music. 
    This film isn’t a great superhero movie, it’s a great movie period. It requires no prior knowledge of Black Panther, the Marvel Cinimatic Universe, or really African culture because it tells you everything you need to know and everything else doesn’t matter. 
    phoenyx1023
  • This movie is So Good, I’m going to watch Creed now, I have never seen a single Rocky movie nor have I ever had the inclination to watch one, but Ryan Coogler made Creed which means it has to be good so now I have to watch it. 
    hocuspocusnoir
  • Marvel's really been stepping it up with their villains lately. Michael Keaton and Micheal B. Jordan have been some of the best Marvel villains.

    Also, Okoye (Michonne from TWD) was awesome. The car chase in South Korea was really well done.
    hocuspocusnoir
  • Downside: this movie is so good that Avengers 3 and 4 can not possibly stand up to this. 
    Lanielove
  • Danai Gurira is wasted on TWD. 
    hocuspocusnoirMonicaLanielove
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited February 18
    I literally knew nothing about Black Panther before seeing this. It was an interesting movie because I had no idea who the good guy was until about 30 minutes before the movie ended. However, I started to fall asleep during the city action sequence. I probably shouldn't rate the movie poorly for that because, what did I expect?

    I give it huge props for not boring me to tears. Yes, this is a snarky review. I'm so over Marvel. I have to grade on that curve.

    The movie did seem a little messy though... as I said, I couldn't locate the movie's point-of-view until the last 30 minutes, and that's not automatically a great thing. I wish they had spent more time on the politics and moral quandaries, as those were the best parts. 

    Also I was hella confused about the 1992 opener for a long time. Someone's brother...? He betrayed them...? Where....? Who...? It was the older prince, I thought, and so which one is the guy in the black panther suit? (Also, did he have the black panther powers all along? Huh? Weird, we usually see that, or at least get a rundown of what it is.)

    There were several points in this movie I thought the cinematographer didn't know how to light movies for black people. These aren't white faces; turn the lights up.

    Viola Davis stole the movie for me. Edit: I mean Danai Gurira, and holy shit, I was so sure.
    Doctor_Nick
  • JaimieT said:

    There were several points in this movie I thought the cinematographer didn't know how to light movies for black people. These aren't white faces; turn the lights up.

    Viola Davis stole the movie for me.
    What is happening? The black people were amazingly lit. I could not stop staring at their skin. It was poppin.

    IDK, yo. I'm confused by you not liking it at least. Sounds like you disliked it so much that you put a very distinguished actress in the movie when she was not there at all.

    Forget this being a great Marvel movie. This was an amazing movie period.
    I saw it in IMAX. The scenery and action were breathtaking.
    Phoebes89rkcrawfphoenyx1023Lanielove
  • Yeah I’m not sure if that was a joke or not but Viola Davis isn’t in this movie. 
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited February 18
    Alkaid13 said:
    Yeah I’m not sure if that was a joke or not but Viola Davis isn’t in this movie. 

    Not a joke. I got confused by how star-studded the LA Premier red carpet was. I follow celebrity fashion, and so many black celebrities showed up for this thing! In my head, I had cast this movie full of stars. I kept looking for David Oyelowo...

    @hocuspocusnoir - It was certainly a beautiful movie to look at, and yes, better than any other Marvel movie for that. I can see why you'd say "amazing movie period."

    There was one point Danai Gurira was really chewing someone out and I was like, "I need to rewatch Doubt," hahaha.

    Re: poorly lit, both opening scenes, the 1992 one and the present day one, I could barely barely see anyone's expressions. Maybe it was my theater.
  • Which character did you think was Viola Davis?
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Alkaid13 said:
    Which character did you think was Viola Davis?

    Sorry, I edited my original comment. Danai Gurira.
  • Oh ok.
  • It might have been a theater thing, I didn’t really have that issue with identifying people. Also you might have Marvel fatigue. 
  • I think this is probably the best Marvel movie period if for no other reason than it’s an “important” movie and pretty much every other Marvel movie is just a fun movie with no real substance. 
    JaimieTPhoebes89
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    I agree with both of those statements. I don't go to Marvel movies since 3-4 years ago, but this was an important one. 

    Also... I couldn't see their faces or expressions. Different from me misidentifying Viola Davis lol, which is all me. Danai Gurira is a great actress I've never seen before though. I look forward to more from her.
  • I’m still fucking annoyed that Danai has to mope around the dumbass Walking Dead for a few more years. She should be in so much better shows. 
    JaimieThocuspocusnoirPhoebes89
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    Butting in here because I haven't seen Black Panther yet, but I think Rachel Morrison probably knows how to light movies for black people. She is the first female cinematographer to be nominated for an Academy Award, and it's for Mudbound. Also, she shot Coogler's Fruitvale Station, so.

    I apologize if this sounded snarky, but I think it was probably an issue with your theatre, Jaimie.
    JaimieTPhoebes89LanieloveKingKobra
  • Although I am very high on this movie as it was very good, I can't say that I would put it in my top 5 Marvel movies.  I think you nailed it by saying it is a great movie period.  It is easily the most meaningful or important Marvel movie that they've made and I think that's what sets it apart from all the other Marvel movies.  For me I really enjoy all the Marvel movies because they are just fun movies to watch.  
    Phoebes89
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Butting in here because I haven't seen Black Panther yet, but I think Rachel Morrison probably knows how to light movies for black people. She is the first female cinematographer to be nominated for an Academy Award, and it's for Mudbound. Also, she shot Coogler's Fruitvale Station, so.

    I apologize if this sounded snarky, but I think it was probably an issue with your theatre, Jaimie.

    No it doesn't sound snarky. I was the snarky one, lol, since I hadn't done any research into it. Thanks for the education. 
  • I've seen the movie twice and on first viewing I thought the opening narrative was T'Chaka talking to T'Challa, and thought T'Challa's accent sounded funny. On second viewing I think it's actually Uncle N'Jobu talking to Erik. Can anyone confirm?
    JaimieT
  • edited February 18
    I've been trying to put my finger on why this movie is great, because the weird thing is that the action bits are not very good. With the exception of the fight in the "casino" they're either boringly choreograpghed, confusingly shot or just standard issue CGI fuckfests, 

    I think part of what makes it great it is that it tries to and mostly succeeds at having a heart.The scene where Killmonger goes to the land of the dead was absolutely fantastic. The stuff between T'Challa and his father was great. Killmonger's motivations/anger, while not "Magneto in X-Men: First Class" level clear, were understandable. The first after credit scene, while ostensibly about Wakanda, is almost certainly also a commentary on today's political climate.

    I also think it does the best job of integrating humor. A lot of the humor in Marvel movies seems shoe-horned in, undercutting emotional beats, making the characters seem glib during dire moments, etc. Less so here.

    In hindsight, while not wildly political, the movie is certainly far, far more political than I'dve thought Disney/Marvel would allow. Hopefully it's a sign of Marvel letting creators put their stamp on these movies now, albeit too late for an Edgar Wright Ant-Man, sadly.

    All that said, I still don't know what Killmonger's plan actually was. If he just wanted to kill Klaw in order to turn Get Out, what was the purpose of the heist in the beginning? He already had access to Klaw, already knew where Wakanda was and didn't need that vibranium for anything. It would have been better if Killmonger was hunting Klaw as well, tried to but failed to kill him during Klaw's heist and then had to snatch him from T'Challa in Korea in order to pull off his plan to get that one tribe on his side.

    And I wish they'd spent a little more time fleshing out Wakandan culture. Why is a weird mud hut/sci-fi amalgam? Why are the Jabari running around in loincloths in the most technically advanced country in the world, He-Man style? I assume that it's because of their dedication to their culture, but it'd been great if that'd been touched on a bit more.
    Phoebes89
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Sharing this, because it was 40% of the reason I didn't wait to see this on DVD. (The other 40% was BM's review, and 20% was encouraging more diversity with my ticket sale.)


  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    KingMob said:
    I've been trying to put my finger on why this movie is great, because the weird thing is that the action bits are not very good. With the exception of the fight in the "casino" they're either boringly choreograpghed, confusingly shot or just standard issue CGI fuckfests, 

    I think part of what makes it great it is that it tries to and mostly succeeds at having a heart.The scene where Killmonger goes to the land of the dead was absolutely fantastic. The stuff between T'Challa and his father was great. Killmonger's motivations/anger, while not "Magneto in X-Men: First Class" level clear, were understandable. The first after credit scene, while ostensibly about Wakanda, is almost certainly also a commentary on today's political climate.

    I also think it does the best job of integrating humor. A lot of the humor in Marvel movies seems shoe-horned in, undercutting emotional beats, making the characters seem glib during dire moments, etc. Less so here.

    In hindsight, while not wildly political, the movie is certainly far, far more political than I'dve thought Disney/Marvel would allow. Hopefully it's a sign of Marvel letting creators put their stamp on these movies now, albeit too late for an Edgar Wright Ant-Man, sadly.

    All that said, I still don't know what Killmonger's plan actually was. If he just wanted to kill Klaw in order to turn Get Out, what was the purpose of the heist in the beginning? He already had access to Klaw, already knew where Wakanda was and didn't need that vibranium for anything. It would have been better if Killmonger was hunting Klaw as well, tried to but failed to kill him during Klaw's heist and then had to snatch him from T'Challa in Korea in order to pull off his plan to get that one tribe on his side.

    And I wish they'd spent a little more time fleshing out Wakandan culture. Why is a weird mud hut/sci-fi amalgam? Why are the Jabari running around in loincloths in the most technically advanced country in the world, He-Man style? I assume that it's because of their dedication to their culture, but it'd been great if that'd been touched on a bit more.

    "I think part of what makes it great it is that it tries to and mostly succeeds at having a heart." Mark Kermode described an example of this as, in the last action sequence, he could follow what everyone was doing and what they wanted. 
  • KingMob said:


    All that said, I still don't know what Killmonger's plan actually was. If he just wanted to kill Klaw in order to turn Get Out, what was the purpose of the heist in the beginning? He already had access to Klaw, already knew where Wakanda was and didn't need that vibranium for anything. It would have been better if Killmonger was hunting Klaw as well, tried to but failed to kill him during Klaw's heist and then had to snatch him from T'Challa in Korea in order to pull off his plan to get that one tribe on his side.

    And I wish they'd spent a little more time fleshing out Wakandan culture. Why is a weird mud hut/sci-fi amalgam? Why are the Jabari running around in loincloths in the most technically advanced country in the world, He-Man style? I assume that it's because of their dedication to their culture, but it'd been great if that'd been touched on a bit more.
    Because if Killmonger just showed up with Klaw, it would be harder to turn anyone against T'Challa. He was there in Korea to ensure T'Challa's failure to bring back Klaw, only to turn around to do it himself. It's not enough to just have people like you; you also should take insurance that some people in the nation are against the current leadership. It would have been easier for T'Challa to refuse Killmonger's claim for the thrown if everyone was against that.
    It's not like Killmonger had a long simmering hatred toward Klaw since his father aligned with him. So having him hunt down Klaw would be a very odd narrative choice when there is already a foundation for Klaw to not run from him and for Killmonger to align with him IMO.

    Regarding the mudhut aspect, I assume you mean W'kabi and his tribe. He and his tribe are in charge keeping Wakanda's border secure. The ruse was that Wakanda is a third world country. So if someone managed to get in, the intruders would be met with what they have been told Wakanda is before being stopped. That tribe has great technology, but it's easy to disguise or hide.

    It was stated at the beginning of the movie and several times by M'Baku (basically all the times he was on screen) that the Jabari were not keen on technology because that tribe felt it would ruin their way of life and culture. 
    Phoebes89phoenyx1023KingKobra
  • JaimieT said:

    Re: poorly lit, both opening scenes, the 1992 one and the present day one, I could barely barely see anyone's expressions. Maybe it was my theater.
    As others have said, it was mostly likely your theater. The "California" scenes were incredibly lit. Even though it was a night scene, no one appeared to be shadowed or whatever. You should get your money back from that theater.
    Lanielove
  • edited February 19
    Because if Killmonger just showed up with Klaw, it would be harder to turn anyone against T'Challa. He was there in Korea to ensure T'Challa's failure to bring back Klaw, only to turn around to do it himself. It's not enough to just have people like you; you also should take insurance that some people in the nation are against the current leadership. It would have been easier for T'Challa to refuse Killmonger's claim for the thrown if everyone was against that.

    It's not like Killmonger had a long simmering hatred toward Klaw since his father aligned with him. So having him hunt down Klaw would be a very odd narrative choice when there is already a foundation for Klaw to not run from him and for Killmonger to align with him IMO.

    Regarding the mudhut aspect, I assume you mean W'kabi and his tribe. He and his tribe are in charge keeping Wakanda's border secure. The ruse was that Wakanda is a third world country. So if someone managed to get in, the intruders would be met with what they have been told Wakanda is before being stopped. That tribe has great technology, but it's easy to disguise or hide.

    It was stated at the beginning of the movie and several times by M'Baku (basically all the times he was on screen) that the Jabari were not keen on technology because that tribe felt it would ruin their way of life and culture.  
    I agree that W'kabi wouldn't have turned on T'Challa had he not failed to catch Klaw, given how buddy-buddy they were beforehand (how much his betrayal was fuelled by T'Challa giving his word and how KM could have known any of this in any event, I don't know). If that was his plan, that makes more sense to me. I also thought that maybe KM worked with Klaw to steal the artifact precisely because the robbery would put Klaw back on Wakanda's radar, increasing the impact KM delivering his body to Wakanda would have. These theories are only good for No-Prizes though, since the movie didn't imply either.

    And when I suggested KM hunting down Klaw, I just meant so he could kill him and deliver him to Wakanda, not because KM had any kind of beef with him. Disagree that there was/could be any kind of alignment between KM and Klaw, since Klaw didn't know that KM and N'Jobu were related, or that KM was Wakandan.

    Your explanation about W'kabi's tribe makes sense, and I must have missed that bit about the Jabari. I didn't think they'd eschewed Wakandan tech entirely. I was mostly puzzled by the montages and walking scenes in the heart of the city though, where Kimoyo bracelets and maglev trains and the like were shown side by side with dirt roads and people cooking street meat on crusty grills.
  • Butting in here because I haven't seen Black Panther yet, but I think Rachel Morrison probably knows how to light movies for black people. She is the first female cinematographer to be nominated for an Academy Award, and it's for Mudbound. Also, she shot Coogler's Fruitvale Station, so.

    I apologize if this sounded snarky, but I think it was probably an issue with your theatre, Jaimie.
    Yup! I was going to say Rachel Morrison is an incredible cinematographer, and really knows how to light black people. I really think it was an issue with your theatre!  @JamieT
  • I thought the movie was powerful and poignant! 

    I also echo the surprise at how political this movie was allowed to be. The movie was overall incredible! Rachel Morrison deserves that freaking Oscar because she always does incredible work! I think Killmonger was a fantastic villain. All the characters are really charming and interesting. It was incredible to see so many badass women. A lot of real world issues are dealt In a very real and relatable way. 

    My one minor (minor) criticism was that the movie could have been a bit longer. I would have liked to have understood a little bit more about some character motivations. 

    JaimieTLanielove
  • edited February 19
    I think it was ok and entertaining, but not a great movie by any means. I liked the actors and the story but the settings, CGI and action was not really up to par, it took me out of the movie at times. I'm kind of getting tired of Marvel movies as well, anytime somebody is wearing an impeccable suit it gets really boring real fast.  I was hoping to see more of the inner workings of Wakanda but everytime it got interesting they just resolved to fighting or blowing things up. The last act felt rushed, I didn't really get Killmongers plan or why he destroyed  those flowers for example. That should have been his ultimate tool for supremacy, he could have granted those powers to his followers and offered them to the other tribe leaders to rally them to his course. Especially since he was the best fighter in ritual duelling without those powers.
    Didn't seem smart for a trained operative to antagonize the elite guard as well. They probably shouldn't have killed him off, it felt weird or even wrong to me that he lost that fight. I think the black panther should have been saved by one of the women stabbing Killmonger in the back to save the kingdom. That would have risen some interesting moral questions and explained why at least some changes to their policy were made. 

    Oh, and I wanted to see the makeup sex between the general and her husband, that would have been some great  statement on female empowerment.  :-)


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