Episode 515 - Try

Open thread?

Written by: somebody who might've written Bobby's World
Directed By: Someone's kid.
Jovial_FalconTaraC73angryjef
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Comments

  • edited March 2015
    NIN - Somewhat Damaged just opened the new EP. This is already the best episode ever
  • Just in case anybody missed the lyrics:

    So impressed with all you do Tried so hard to be like you Flew too high and burnt the wing Lost my faith in everything Lick around divine debris Taste the wealth of hate in me Shedding skin succumb defeat This machine is obsolete Made the choice to go away Drink the fountain of decay

    The song ended there but the entire song makes sense for whats going on here. The rest of the lyrics are below

    Tear a hole exquisite red Fuck the rest and stab it dead Broken bruised forgotten sore Too fucked up to care anymore Poisoned to my rotten core Too fucked up to care anymore In the back off the side and far away is a place where I hide where I stay tried to say tried to ask I needed to all alone by myself where were you? How could I ever think it's funny how everything that swore it wouldn't change is different now just like you Would always say we'll make it through then my head fell apart and where were you? How could I ever think it's funny how everything you swore would never change is different now like you said you and me make it through didn't quite fell apart where the fuck were you?

    Andrew
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    6th sense red balloon.
    TaraC73Elisa
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    The directing/acting for Jessie was really terrible. Pete too. There were almost no signs of abuse. Unless we were told he was an abuser, would anyone know?
    Cory
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    That was a Georgia O'Keeffe tree.
    Elisa
  • I know im beating a dead horse but humans making more noise than walkers is still laughable to me. I shouldnt care
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    Carcosa. Who would survive longer in the ZA? Rust Cohle or Marty Hart?
    steph_b
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    For the record, i think the whole Alexandria storyline has been great. But this Rick-Jessie shit is the worst. Like dog meat and rain water.
    steph_bTaraC73MmmBopCorypavlovsbell
  • edited March 2015
    I hate the Sasha storyline far more than the Rickssie plot. Sersiously, we're getting some shitty half-baked Heart of Darkness bullshit because because what, someone died? This in season five? Are you fucking serious? 

    At least Rick's downslide is far more relatable. I thought it was pretty funny and sad how much this whiny surgeon beat the shit out of Rick though, how embarrassing. That should've been a vastly more one-sided fight than it was.

    Glenn is finally coming around again for me, I so wanted him dead a season ago when he dragged Tara into the dark tunnel full of zombies. So this probably means he's doomed.
    steph_bTaraC73Jovial_Falconhypergenesb
  • Watch them bring Glenn back around just to kill him off. Watch him be the top secret guest on Talking Dead next week.
  • TaraC73TaraC73 Manchester NH
    Melissa McBride was confirmed last night as the top secret guest....
    I loved the episode. HATE the Sasha storyline too though - I just don't buy it. I hope she eats her gun.
    I like the puppy love between Carl and Edith :)
    I am also a new Glenn fan... I think he's going to make it.
    Darryl and Aaron are on the tail of Morgan. I'm calling it - those are "M's" for Morgan not "W's"... And WHY THE FUCK didn't Daryl say anything about the W on that lady-of-the-tree's head?
    Good show, actually looking forward to a rewatch tonight :)
    MmmBop
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Ugh, Rick is being so gross. It's bad enough the Alexandrians are willing to turn a blind eye to a wife beater but Rick's pretty much admitted he only cares because he wants to get in her pants.
    littlemissscifiCorypavlovsbellElisa
  • MmmBopMmmBop United Kingdom
    Arghh why did Michone sock Rick?
  • edited March 2015
    This episode was shit. 

    Jesse is being portrayed as just a piece of meat that two Neanderthal men are fighting over. It's like something from last century where women are commodities.

    The whole abuse storyline is half baked. They're trying to make us buy it through a drunk and angry Jeff rather than a battered and scared Jesse and it's just not working because they set her up to be this beautiful, strong, motherly woman from her first introduction.

    After searching so long for sanctuary for his baby daughter he's now jeopardising everything they have. It's fucking stupid. 
    CoryJovial_Falconangryjef
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    edited March 2015
    @MmmBop
    Because Rick's gone off the rails!  Even when he was talking to Deanna and Jessie he was all leaned in creepily close, nudging closer.  I half expected him to take a bite out of them, as if that chunk he took out of Joe gave him a taste for human flesh!
    MmmBopElisa
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    The True Detective Zombie was more of a representation of what Carol threatened Sam with than what happened to Aiden.
    littlemissscifi
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited March 2015
    That was a really sweet and strange moment with Carl and Enid in the tree. Filmed almost perfectly, and that line from her "Good, you're scared of me too." How does the Walking Dead of all shows pull an adolescent scene like that off where so many other shows fail? 

    I like the earlier dialogue with them, showing how the kids have assimilated the walkers as a part of life to the point that they seem happier outside the walls. Carl is forever going to remember that moment in the tree, complete with the living dead passing nearby.

    I do like aspects of what they're doing with Rick and Sasha. At times it's like the utter normalcy of the place is deafening to them and they can't take it. Rick's monologue after fighting with Pete is him just cutting loose with everything he's been thinking and wanting to say. Loved Michonne taking Rick out. It was like I just wanted him to shut up, but hadn't even realized it until that moment. 

    Like Aron said in the instant cast, I took Rick saying "no" to Jessie as meaning anyone outside his group. To me there's no question he does that for Glenn, Maggie, Carol, etc.... Though I still don't think it makes sense. He's the constable. That's his job. I don't know why Jessie would ask "why do you care?" It's one of those weird questions people on TV always ask - "why are you doing this, why are you helping me?" Didn't Deanna ask that too, about Pete? Weird. 

    Didn't like Maggie not appearing here, or Father Gabriel. Maggie especially, as she should be the logical bridge between these groups, having worked closely with Deanna for a while now. If they want to write her out for the episode, just toss a line out there about what she's doing. But I don't think in this new setup, you can just ignore a character for the sake of convenience. Logically, she should be aware of what's going on here.
    AntManBeeAndrewMmmBoplittlemissscifiElisaTaraC73
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    God, I didn't even realize it until just now. Was that all in service of trying to set up some neat/cute dialogue thing, where Rick says "no" to one thing and Jessie says "yes" to another? If so, that is lame. 
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    In the instant cast they mentioned not buying that dick-less would find the blender gun. Considering that he was part of the crew that gets to leave the walls on a daily basis, I don't think it's that hard to buy. Now the only question is when it's going to rear it's head again (I hope/assume it's in the finale).
    Elisa

  • Good grief!

    The Sasha story line isn't bothering me at all.  Tyreese just died like what?  Maybe two weeks ago? And it hasn't been 5 years for them its been maybe two years.  Plus, who knows what her process has been before this?  When the shit hit the fan, her way of functioning may have been super connected to Tyreese being alive.  Everybody needs to hang their hat on something and now her something is gone.  And he dies RIGHT BEFORE they finally make it to a place that would have been way his cup of tea.  And Bob- shit enough said.  The Noah thing too.  I don't even think there was a huge bond with Noah, they had talked at one point and she had told him it would be okay (we saw that, no?).  I think Noah hit people hard because he was a kid.    

    In my opinion I think this sort of thing is even more realistic in a way than people being able to adjust quickly.  Think about it.  Tons of people I know are bat shit crazy for seemingly no reason.  And then there are other people I know who have had the craziest things happen to them and its like water on a duck.  The assumption that people who have survived would be unemotional walker killing robots is just unrealistic.  Surviving requires all kinds of skills, sanity isn't necessarily one of them.  Nor is being an unemotional robot.  Which brings me nicely to my next point-Mr. Grimes.    
      

    I think Rick has been nuts from the minute they got to Alexandria.  Frankly, I think even on his good days he is right on the edge of completely loosing it, but Alexandria has really flipped his lid.  When he kissed Jessie at the cocktail party I was waiting for Lori to walk through the room in her white dress with a Martini in her hand.  My take on this whole Alexandria thing is he's been cracking like an egg since they walked through the gates.  

    Rick waving the gun around so reminded me of the prison when he was waving the gun around when Sasha and Tyreese showed up.  I feel bad for him.  His whole M.O. is keeping people safe, before the walkers and now.  The last time he tried to "be cool" was with the Gov and Hershel ended up dying.  I think that kicked his ass.  If you think about his experience he is in a situation where he has told himself he is justified in doing horrible god awful brutal things because that is how you keep people safe and survive-then he gets to this place where people have survived without doing that.  

    Alexandria itself is messing with his whole set of justifications of who he is and how he has behaved. If he buys that you can survive without being brutal then how does he live with what he's done?

    Anyway-that's just my take on all this...  
    UnderwoodMmmBoplittlemissscifiElisaTaraC73
  • UnderwoodUnderwood Philadelphia, PA
    They're following the comic pretty damn closely this half season. So it's no surprise that the last handful of episodes have been the best in years.
    AntManBeebrewseveltksa1001Elisa
  • @S. Smith I never said year five, I said season five. I realize it's only supposed to be year two or three or whatever of the outbreak, I just don't care, there's no getting around the meta properties of us, the actual viewers, accepting something differently much later on IRL. And having characters like Carl greatly exacerbates the problem of a story moving slower than the real life execution. How old is he supposed to be in the comic? Cause he must be like 9 in season 1 and now he's got to be a sophomore in high school or something.

    I'm not saying Sasha's reactions are invalid, I'm just saying I don't want to see a half-baked portrayal of stuff we've already seen when the general Alexandria town plot is far more interesting. Suffering through Rick's turmoil a few seasons ago was bad enough, I didn't really want to see that then, and I don't want to see it again. It's fine to know that it's happening and have a few small tidbits here and there showing it and keeping us in the loop, I just don't want full huge chunks of the show dedicated to it. 

    Meanwhile Tara barely survived a grenade blast and Glenn and Eugene had to deal with ultra sack of shit guy and the end of the last episode, which had me interested in this week's follow-up, and  we get like one line about Tara and two small scenes with Glenn, and was Eugene and Maggie even in the episode? I don't recall them at all. Instead of getting far more interesting worthwhile scenes with her and Glenn and Eugene and more of the original group getting together discussing the utter bullshit that Mr. Fuckhead pulled, we see Sasha wasting ammo in the woods. 
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    Checked out the Walking Dead subreddit for the first time in a long time. Man, people love Rick over there. It's like the Walter White fan club all over again. 
    TaraC73
  • I've always found it interesting that people tend to prefer it when the show closely follows the comic. Plot points I get, but this second half of the season is even running almost perfectly parallel with dialogue as well. Given that Kirkman is an atrocious writer I don't think that's a good thing. The concepts introduced in the comic are very interesting, but his dialogue and story arcs are primitive to say the least. If you're a comic fan and just watching to see the pages come alive on the screen, I'm sure you're loving it. I'd rather see what good writers can do with Kirkman's original concepts. Maybe that's a pipe dream.

    "Try" was very hot and cold for me. Great stuff with Carl/Enid, Daryl/Aaron. The Rick slowly creeping in to close-talk range in all of his personal interactions is creeping me out...if that's the point then they are succeeding. I'll say this...very interested in watching the finale so kudos AMC.
    chriskpavlovsbellUnderwoodCorylittlemissscifi
  • One other thought...does Kirkman have ultimate veto power for the show? Not sure what his influence is with AMC.
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    I read a Rolling Stone interview that not to subtlely suggested that Kirkman has final say and that he was the reason for the turnover of the first 2 show runners.
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis

     If you're a comic fan and just watching to see the pages come alive on the screen, I'm sure you're loving it. I'd rather see what good writers can do with Kirkman's original concepts. Maybe that's a pipe dream.


    I'm in the same boat. The same mostly goes for Game of Thrones. 
    pavlovsbell
  • ksa1001 said:

    I read a Rolling Stone interview that not to subtlely suggested that Kirkman has final say and that he was the reason for the turnover of the first 2 show runners.

    That would make sense with the recent shift to more closely parallel the comics in plot and dialogue. 
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    Also wanted to say I agree with Aron that Michonne is the most level headed person of the group. Though I think Glenn is pretty much there too. 

    The problem with Rick's mindset, IMO, is that it's not worth living if you're going to just reduce everything to pure survival ethics. Michonne seems to recognize the flaws in Alexandria, but she also wants to make it work and meet them halfway. Bitching about these people being soft isn't really helping.

    I wish we could see some evidence that Rick or someone in his group has explained to Deanna everything that has happened to them. It's implied but some of her reactions don't add up. Presumably she also knows nothing about what Carol has done, which is kind of a flaw in the storytelling since they've all given separate accounts and you'd think "Carol saved us from the cannibals" would have come up. But especially after Father Gabriel's weak sauce last week, it would have been nice to see Maggie giving her their side. 

    Also, was that Rick's stolen gun or his official constable gun?
    littlemissscifiTaraC73
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    edited March 2015
    ghm3 said:

    Meanwhile Tara barely survived a grenade blast and Glenn and Eugene had to deal with ultra sack of shit guy and the end of the last episode, which had me interested in this week's follow-up, and  we get like one line about Tara and two small scenes with Glenn, and was Eugene and Maggie even in the episode? I don't recall them at all. Instead of getting far more interesting worthwhile scenes with her and Glenn and Eugene and more of the original group getting together discussing the utter bullshit that Mr. Fuckhead pulled, we see Sasha wasting ammo in the woods. 
    This is what's bothering me about 5-B (aside from the usual weaknesses of dialogue and character stupidity).  The writers do not seem interested in constructing the necessary scaffolding to create a compelling and organic narrative.  They jump from one point to the next, but the points they choose to land on are sometimes bewildering to me.   Why isn't Maggie in this episode?  Shouldn't Glenn be sharing his traumatic experience with, oh I don't know, his wife?  And then Maggie can tell him how this is really bad timing because Gabriel just unloaded a truck of BS to Deanna about how their group does exactly what Nicholas' version of the events will be?  Tara just gets mentioned, and Eugene is completely absent, which undermines what happened with them in the last episode.  I guess Abraham was off on a work assignment, and Gabriel was back to mending his Bible or something.  It might have been interesting to see their reactions to Rick's meltdown, or to have Gabriel and Deanna exchange a look.

    I don't care for creepy / crazy Rick.  He's really giving off a Shane vibe, especially his ranting at the end.  I certainly do not expect him to be mentally healthy, but his latching onto Jessie and the, "No," do not track for me.  

    Things I did like:

    Glenn.  I'm happy to see people coming around to his character.  He's always been a favorite of mine, even when the writers did him little favor in 4-B. 

    The discussion of Pete and Jessie.  Attitudes towards domestic violence and violence against women specifically is a huge problem IRL, and transferring that issue and framing it as a "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few / greater good" issue in a post-apocalyptic world is compelling stuff.  Too bad they had to sully it by throwing in a creepy romantic / lusty twist.  

    Michonne taking Rick out, and her conflicted look afterward.  

    The Carl and Enid scenes.  I have no idea how the show can nail the bittersweet poignance of their tree scene while utterly failing at TV Writing 101 for other things.
    Andrewchriskghm3aldulittlemissscifi
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