US Politics Vol. 6: A Song of Fire and Fury - The Winds of Midterms

New thread, same old rules apply.  Let's be kind to each other :)


darwinfeeshy
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Comments

  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    Dee said:
    Gan said:
    AMC put the racists in braces. Can't say I blame them either. 

    It's really unfortunate that the rest of the cast and crew have to suffer due to someone elses bigotry. Pesonally I feel they should all sue her since she was the catalyst of them losing their jobs. 
    I’m not going to judge the crew because they’re working stiffs and we all have to deal with areshole bosses, but Roseanne has been a really, really awful person for a long time now, and very vocal about her awfulness. I did side eye people like Sara Gilbert, John Goodman, Laurie Metcalf, etc for agreeing to work with her again in the first place. At some point you have to judge people by the company that they keep. 

    (And yes, I did watch the reboot, so I’m part of the problem.) 
    I think it's fair to side-eye the people that knew about Roseanne's behavior before they decided to join the show. Me personally, I didn't really know anything about her besides I used to enjoy watching the old show when I was a kid. It wasn't until after the show as announced that I learned how much of a bad person she is and that is when I decided to not watch the show. 



    Shepard Smith continues to be the ONLY SANE person working at Fox News, often calls out Trump and his cronies. 

    Btw, in addition to my earlier point about side eyeing people that agree to work if bigots, why does Smith continue to work at Fox? I don't understand it tbh.
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    Gan said:

    Shepard Smith continues to be the ONLY SANE person working at Fox News, often calls out Trump and his cronies. 

    Btw, in addition to my earlier point about side eyeing people that agree to work if bigots, why does Smith continue to work at Fox? I don't understand it tbh. 
    I don't say this in contradiction to your point in anyway, just offering this as an aside - the actual news portion of Fox News is pretty decent (no better or worse than the other networks really)...it might have a bias, but it's fact and reality based.  Where they go off the deep-end is with this prime-time 'opinion shows', that's where facts get brushed aside and are replaced with lies and conspiracy theories.
  • MrXMrX CO
    My thread name won! When do I get my prize money??
    JaimieTTravisFlukes
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    MrX said:
    My thread name won! When do I get my prize money??
    Umm....how do I put this....Bald Move prize money is kinda like a Trump promise to the working class...



    MrXTravisBourbonQueen
  • seanrayseanray Texas
    edited May 30
    Whats the over/under on how many posts until someone gets into a heated argument? ;)
    CretanBullTravis
  • edited May 30
    I don't really participate in these threads, but A+ title.
    CretanBullTravisCodyHarris821
  • seanray said:
    Whats the over/under on how many posts until someone gets into a heated argument? ;)
    Does this over/under extend over to the Roseanne thread?  My guess is some Trumper is gonna say something stupid there.
    asmallcat
  • tom_g said:
    seanray said:
    Whats the over/under on how many posts until someone gets into a heated argument? ;)
    Does this over/under extend over to the Roseanne thread?  My guess is some Trumper is gonna say something stupid there.
    Damn.
    asmallcat
  • seanrayseanray Texas
    It extends as long as you don’t point out anything stupid I said.

    (he said with heavy sarcasm.)
    Travis
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    edited May 30
    The story is foreign, but it certainly relates to things discussed in US politics, such as "why did the police shoot him, he only had a knife!" 

    well maybe knives are a little more dangerous then people care to admit, and once properly used, person with a knife now has a gun. This is why deadly force is the only appropriate response to a knife attack if you can get your gun out... and why officers in the US don't approach knife armed suspects without adequate backup covering them. 

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44289404





  • Do we think this means anything, or is this just PR advocacy for his client? 
  • MrXMrX CO
    asmallcat said:


    Do we think this means anything, or is this just PR advocacy for his client? 

    Yea I'd take what he says with a grain of salt ... he's produced some legit stuff but he also seems to be a big glutton for the spotlight.


  • MrXMrX CO
    Fox News (and Mr. Benghazi himself Trey Gowdy) countering Trump's conspiracy theory claims about the FBI.






  • Frakkin TFrakkin T Currently Offline
    MrX said:
    Fox News (and Mr. Benghazi himself Trey Gowdy) countering Trump's conspiracy theory claims about the FBI.






    We'll see more of this as more evidence of 45's guilt comes to light. Like rats deserting a sinking ship.
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    Blue Wave in trouble..



  • https://navigatorresearch.org/portfolio_page/what-are-they-hiding/

    I'm guessing this is due to the phrasing of the poll. A lot of the previous questions involve Trump, and then the question is just "has the investigation uncovered crimes." It's perfectly reasonable that some respondents would have thought that meant "crimes committed by Trump."

    Also, assuming that every person taking the poll understood the question perfectly, all this would show is that Americans are uninformed, which, yeah, we are. It's a fact that the investigation has uncovered crimes - the probe has gotten 5 guilty pleas. 
  • MrXMrX CO
    edited May 30
    Yesterday:

    Q: Sarah, the President has been a big supporter of Roseanne Barr.  What is his and the White House’s reaction to her comments today and to ABC’s decision to cancel her show?

    MS. SANDERS:  Look, as you know, the President has been extremely focused, as I just walked through the things going on with the upcoming summit.  And the President is focused on North Korea.  He’s focused on trade deals.  And he’s focused on rebuilding our military, the economy.  And that’s what he’s spending his time on; not responding to other things.

    Today:





    There's our big boy! I guess he solved all those important things!

    PS - in case it wasn't clear - being criticised for being a terrible person is not the same thing as being the target of a racist joke. But make no mistake, it's a an absolute deliberate strategy on the part of the White House to make it seem like they are!
    asmallcat
  • LordByLordBy Utah
    Blue wave may be in trouble with the tightening of the generic ballot polls and improvement in Trump’s job approval polls. There is a long time until Election Day though so things could break either way.

    If Trump fixes Korea, gets something he can call a win on NAFTA that doesn’t kill exporters, the economy stays strong, and the Democrats overplay their hand then it could be in real trouble.

    On the other hand Korea doesn’t look that easy, NAFTA doesn’t seem to be going anywhere, the economy could hit a soft spot, Cohen could become a bigger problem if they have something concrete to hold over his head, Manafort is going on trial, Trump could fire Mueller and/or Rosenstein, Avenatti’s “Trump Tapes” might exist, and who knows what other drama could come out over the next 5mos that we can’t even predict.

    One thing this administration is not lacking is volatility so predictions should be taken with a salt lick.
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    asmallcat said:
    https://navigatorresearch.org/portfolio_page/what-are-they-hiding/

    I'm guessing this is due to the phrasing of the poll. A lot of the previous questions involve Trump, and then the question is just "has the investigation uncovered crimes." It's perfectly reasonable that some respondents would have thought that meant "crimes committed by Trump."

    Also, assuming that every person taking the poll understood the question perfectly, all this would show is that Americans are uninformed, which, yeah, we are. It's a fact that the investigation has uncovered crimes - the probe has gotten 5 guilty pleas. 
    5 guilty pleas for nothing related to a conspiracy to steal information from the Democratic National Committee. keep eyes on the prize. only perjury trap pleas. and a charge against Manafort for nothing involving Russia at all. 

    And I think what the poll is really saying is most Americans consider it a distraction with little basis, which means by now the political impact of attempts to charge the president will not be there if it happens, and if it doesn't it's gone to being a burden for the democrats during the midterm and not a help. The most dedicated democrats will keep insisting that Mueller (any day now) will come up with a charge against the president that's not only valid, but going to politically land, and I think that's really not going to happen. 
    voodooratFlukes
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    edited May 30
    LordBy said:
    Blue wave may be in trouble with the tightening of the generic ballot polls and improvement in Trump’s job approval polls. There is a long time until Election Day though so things could break either way.

    If Trump fixes Korea, gets something he can call a win on NAFTA that doesn’t kill exporters, the economy stays strong, and the Democrats overplay their hand then it could be in real trouble.

    On the other hand Korea doesn’t look that easy, NAFTA doesn’t seem to be going anywhere, the economy could hit a soft spot, Cohen could become a bigger problem if they have something concrete to hold over his head, Manafort is going on trial, Trump could fire Mueller and/or Rosenstein, Avenatti’s “Trump Tapes” might exist, and who knows what other drama could come out over the next 5mos that we can’t even predict.

    One thing this administration is not lacking is volatility so predictions should be taken with a salt lick.
    NAFTA and North Korea, how many years have we seen politicians talk about these issues only to spin their wheels for decades now accomplishing very little? Trump at least has the appearance of making movement on the issues, and I think that the American people will reward the effort even if results don't come. 

    I really do not expect that anything involving the salacious allegations about Trump and porno actresses and Trump and Russia will hurt him. Nobody accused him of being the perfect Christian man at any time in the last 30 years. in fact he directly mocked a central part of my religion during the campaign, I don't expect him to be a priest so what happened with Stormy Daniels doesn't matter either way. people who like Trump or are indifferent don't care if he slept with her and paid her off to protect his marriage, and people who don't like Trump already don't like Trump. 
  • LordByLordBy Utah
    You’re never going to crack Trump’s 30-35% base. The news cycles will affect engagement and turnout, and may affect marginal candidates on the GOP side whose primary strategy is to cozy up to Trump. Others can’t get away with the same stuff that the base appears to tolerate from Trump.

    Democrats had a 13pt lead on the generic ballot 5mos ago, I’m just trying to think of what could affect over the next 5mos. Economic soft spot is probably the biggest risk really, but the unknowns are legion with this administration.
  • April_May_JuneApril_May_June California
    45 pardoned Dinesh D'Souza, who plead guilty to campaign finance fraud ... 
    I just saw that he's talking about pardoning Martha Stewart, who was convicted of insider trading, securities fraud, and insider trading, as well as Rod Blagojevich, who is currently in prison for many crimes, including wire fraud, extortion, and bribery ...

    Hmm ... I think I'm seeing a pattern ... 

    asmallcatCretanBullGan
  • bizmarkiefaderbizmarkiefader San Francisco
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44294366

    4,600 dead from Maria and still nobody seems to really care. This is a nightmare and this administrations handling of the storm will not be looked at kindly by history.
    KingKobraCretanBullJaimieTGanBlusister
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44294366

    4,600 dead from Maria and still nobody seems to really care. This is a nightmare and this administrations handling of the storm will not be looked at kindly by history.
    What are you talking about?  That problem was solved a long time ago.


  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44294366

    4,600 dead from Maria and still nobody seems to really care. This is a nightmare and this administrations handling of the storm will not be looked at kindly by history.

    It's shameful. Puerto Rico is a US protectorate. Yes, I think after all the silliness of Trump fades, travesties like this will linger in the memory.
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    JaimieT said:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44294366

    4,600 dead from Maria and still nobody seems to really care. This is a nightmare and this administrations handling of the storm will not be looked at kindly by history.

    It's shameful. Puerto Rico is a US protectorate. Yes, I think after all the silliness of Trump fades, travesties like this will linger in the memory.
    Puerto Rico is not a Protectorate, it's a territory. 

    That aside, what exactly do you demand Trump to have done? Order a Military coup d'etat against the Island's government, federalize the utility, upgrade it using funds not appropriated for such? And do it all before the storm? Yeah some people died, it's tragic but storms nearing category five cause fatalities, period. The Puerto Ricans did not step up to the plate, in the FEMA plans servicing the transmission lines was their responsibility, the power authority workers deserted their posts and didn't report for work, the Army Corps of Engineers had to start the work on the transmission lines, which is outside of their normal responsibility. The port facilities were severely damaged and had to be repaired before ships could dock, this was the responsibility of the port authority, again the military had to fix this. roads were washed out and bridges collapsed, the public works department didn't have adequate staffing and in some cases not even maps of the area. none of this is Donald Trump's responsibility. he hadn't even been president a year, and the FEMA disaster plans (drawn up by the Obama admin) assumed Puerto Ricos government would be as capable as state governments on the Continent. optimistic yes, but the response was really great considering the scale of the disaster combined with the total collapse of the territory's government 

    people who criticize the federal response never seem to explain what it is THEY would have done better, at least within the framework of existing policy. 


  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    JaimieT said:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44294366

    4,600 dead from Maria and still nobody seems to really care. This is a nightmare and this administrations handling of the storm will not be looked at kindly by history.

    It's shameful. Puerto Rico is a US protectorate. Yes, I think after all the silliness of Trump fades, travesties like this will linger in the memory.
    Puerto Rico is not a Protectorate, it's a territory. 

    That aside, what exactly do you demand Trump to have done? Order a Military coup d'etat against the Island's government, federalize the utility, upgrade it using funds not appropriated for such? And do it all before the storm? Yeah some people died, it's tragic but storms nearing category five cause fatalities, period. The Puerto Ricans did not step up to the plate, in the FEMA plans servicing the transmission lines was their responsibility, the power authority workers deserted their posts and didn't report for work, the Army Corps of Engineers had to start the work on the transmission lines, which is outside of their normal responsibility. The port facilities were severely damaged and had to be repaired before ships could dock, this was the responsibility of the port authority, again the military had to fix this. roads were washed out and bridges collapsed, the public works department didn't have adequate staffing and in some cases not even maps of the area. none of this is Donald Trump's responsibility. he hadn't even been president a year, and the FEMA disaster plans (drawn up by the Obama admin) assumed Puerto Ricos government would be as capable as state governments on the Continent. optimistic yes, but the response was really great considering the scale of the disaster combined with the total collapse of the territory's government 

    people who criticize the federal response never seem to explain what it is THEY would have done better, at least within the framework of existing policy. 


    It was nearly twice as bad as 9/11 in terms of it's death toll.  Trump could have done more than toss out some paper towels.  You've made it clear that you're going to defend your guy at all cost, that you're one of those 35% who can't be reached...but re-read how you replied to Jaime.  You practically brush aside over 5000 deaths then list off how its everyone else's fault.  Pretend everything you said is true (it's not) - it's in situations like this, when all else has failed, that leadership shines.  Trump has failed horribly.
    FlukesBlusisterGiovanni
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Oh, territory. Thanks so much @emnofseattle.
    Flukes
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    edited June 1
    JaimieT said:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44294366

    4,600 dead from Maria and still nobody seems to really care. This is a nightmare and this administrations handling of the storm will not be looked at kindly by history.

    It's shameful. Puerto Rico is a US protectorate. Yes, I think after all the silliness of Trump fades, travesties like this will linger in the memory.
    Puerto Rico is not a Protectorate, it's a territory. 

    That aside, what exactly do you demand Trump to have done? Order a Military coup d'etat against the Island's government, federalize the utility, upgrade it using funds not appropriated for such? And do it all before the storm? Yeah some people died, it's tragic but storms nearing category five cause fatalities, period. The Puerto Ricans did not step up to the plate, in the FEMA plans servicing the transmission lines was their responsibility, the power authority workers deserted their posts and didn't report for work, the Army Corps of Engineers had to start the work on the transmission lines, which is outside of their normal responsibility. The port facilities were severely damaged and had to be repaired before ships could dock, this was the responsibility of the port authority, again the military had to fix this. roads were washed out and bridges collapsed, the public works department didn't have adequate staffing and in some cases not even maps of the area. none of this is Donald Trump's responsibility. he hadn't even been president a year, and the FEMA disaster plans (drawn up by the Obama admin) assumed Puerto Ricos government would be as capable as state governments on the Continent. optimistic yes, but the response was really great considering the scale of the disaster combined with the total collapse of the territory's government 

    people who criticize the federal response never seem to explain what it is THEY would have done better, at least within the framework of existing policy. 


    It was nearly twice as bad as 9/11 in terms of it's death toll.  Trump could have done more than toss out some paper towels.  You've made it clear that you're going to defend your guy at all cost, that you're one of those 35% who can't be reached...but re-read how you replied to Jaime.  You practically brush aside over 5000 deaths then list off how its everyone else's fault.  Pretend everything you said is true (it's not) - it's in situations like this, when all else has failed, that leadership shines.  Trump has failed horribly.
    Leadership alone doesn't solve practical problems. leadership properly applied fixes them, but not instantly. Telling a power line tower to get up doesn't work, highly skilled tradesmen need to re-erect it. telling an oil terminal to just start taking fuel (since most of the islands power are oil furnaces) doesn't work, tradesmen need to fix it. "leadership" in an abstract sense means nothing if you drive up a road to find a washed out bridge and no one can fix it. The leadership here was supposed to be by the local government in being ready enough that when manpower and money arrives from the continent it's ready to go and be used, and put to work. 

    I also did not brush aside "5000 deaths" that number is not the death toll, it's an assumption based off of a statistical model, with their survey sample not even 5000 people. To set that as a solid number you would need to find 5000 named invdividuals who died months after the storm and then prove they would not have if the storm hadn't happened, which is impossible to do in most cases. so this number so we understand is a guess based on statistical modeling, they haven't gone through medical records and added actual deaths and circumstances to a list based on objective criteria. However, the simple fact is, there will be fatalities in an event that big. So when you're sitting here blaming Donald Trump for 5000 deaths (again, presumed deaths, not a list of people who actually died) and for bungling the response, what does success look like? physically stopping the storm? 0 deaths? 100? power on in 24 hours? 3 days? 3 months? what about the response do you find lacking that could've been improved? And what of that is actually feasible due to the current relationship and expected roles of state and local versus federal authorities? Nobody defines their terms. So if someone wants to claim the president was wrong, It certainly wouldn't be unreasonable to ask what success looks like in their mind. 

    And claiming the president is somehow responsible for "5000 deaths" in some sort of moral sense is certainly not a reasoned argument. 


  • Frakkin TFrakkin T Currently Offline
    JaimieT said:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44294366

    4,600 dead from Maria and still nobody seems to really care. This is a nightmare and this administrations handling of the storm will not be looked at kindly by history.

    It's shameful. Puerto Rico is a US protectorate. Yes, I think after all the silliness of Trump fades, travesties like this will linger in the memory.
    Puerto Rico is not a Protectorate, it's a territory. 

    That aside, what exactly do you demand Trump to have done? Order a Military coup d'etat against the Island's government, federalize the utility, upgrade it using funds not appropriated for such? And do it all before the storm? Yeah some people died, it's tragic but storms nearing category five cause fatalities, period. The Puerto Ricans did not step up to the plate, in the FEMA plans servicing the transmission lines was their responsibility, the power authority workers deserted their posts and didn't report for work, the Army Corps of Engineers had to start the work on the transmission lines, which is outside of their normal responsibility. The port facilities were severely damaged and had to be repaired before ships could dock, this was the responsibility of the port authority, again the military had to fix this. roads were washed out and bridges collapsed, the public works department didn't have adequate staffing and in some cases not even maps of the area. none of this is Donald Trump's responsibility. he hadn't even been president a year, and the FEMA disaster plans (drawn up by the Obama admin) assumed Puerto Ricos government would be as capable as state governments on the Continent. optimistic yes, but the response was really great considering the scale of the disaster combined with the total collapse of the territory's government 

    people who criticize the federal response never seem to explain what it is THEY would have done better, at least within the framework of existing policy. 


    It was nearly twice as bad as 9/11 in terms of it's death toll.  Trump could have done more than toss out some paper towels.  You've made it clear that you're going to defend your guy at all cost, that you're one of those 35% who can't be reached...but re-read how you replied to Jaime.  You practically brush aside over 5000 deaths then list off how its everyone else's fault.  Pretend everything you said is true (it's not) - it's in situations like this, when all else has failed, that leadership shines.  Trump has failed horribly.
    Leadership alone doesn't solve practical problems. leadership properly applied fixes them, but not instantly. Telling a power line tower to get up doesn't work, highly skilled tradesmen need to re-erect it. telling an oil terminal to just start taking fuel (since most of the islands power are oil furnaces) doesn't work, tradesmen need to fix it. 

    I also did not brush aside "5000 deaths" that number is not the death toll, it's an assumption based off of a statistical model, with their survey sample not even 5000 people. To set that as a solid number you would need to find 5000 named invdividuals who died months after the storm and then prove they would not have if the storm hadn't happened, which is impossible to do in most cases. so this number so we understand is a guess based on statistical modeling, they haven't gone through medical records and added actual deaths and circumstances to a list based on objective criteria. However, the simple fact is, there will be fatalities in an event that big. So when you're sitting here blaming Donald Trump for 5000 deaths (again, presumed deaths, not a list of people who actually died) and for bungling the response, what does success look like? physically stopping the storm? 0 deaths? 100? power on in 24 hours? 3 days? 3 months? what about the response do you find lacking that could've been improved? And what of that is actually feasible due to the current relationship and expected roles of state and local versus federal authorities? Nobody defines their terms. So if someone wants to claim the president was wrong, It certainly wouldn't be unreasonable to ask what success looks like in their mind. 


    I don't even have a response for this; I'm just baffled at the complete lack of, well, anything resembling any kind of humanity or decency. Turns out he can do a lot worse than shoot one person on 5th ave and still not lose any support. History will not judge you or him well.
    gguenotJaimieTCretanBulltom_gGanBourbonQueen
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