309 - "Intransigence"


Written by Hallie Lambert
Directed by David Grossman
rkcrawf
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Comments

  • I am shocked there aren’t more comments already.

    i thought the performances in this episode were some of the best so far, and I am loving the suspense. Prob the only time I liked Dominque’s and Holden’s acting.

    Please tell me her name is not Melba Mao. Loved Cara Gee’s performance, and would support a Naommer-ship. Amos is the psycho we know and love.

    I love this show.
    Elisaken hale
  • David Strathairn is fantastic. I’m so glad that the books, and subsequently this show, chose to depict the Belters as smart and capable and strong-willed instead of the dumbfuck dipshits that they could have so lazily been. 
    Elisa
  • If The Expanse was more popular there would be a million Holden one eye peek memes by now
    rkcrawfnafnafMelonuskalexander.klassenA_Ron_HubbardElisa
  • edited June 7
    CapeGabe said:
    If The Expanse was more popular there would be a million Holden one eye peek memes by now
    Truth, I was like wtf is he doing there?
    DrCynPiz
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    Her name is not Melba Mao rest assured. 
    rkcrawf
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    When Holden went into his room to call Miller I did my best Picard impression and said, "Q!" 

    "Melba" and Holden, shipping them now.

    Does anyone know what that rich rady meant when she asked Protestant pastor lady, "Aren't you married?"

    @A-Ron - You mentioned frustration about wanting to read the books. I'm right there with you. The TV show is so good that I'm waiting, but it's hard.
    A_Ron_HubbardDrCynPiz
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Alkaid13 said:
    Her name is not Melba Mao rest assured. 

    Her name is the female equivalent of Pierre: Petra. 
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    Aron has to say Melba with a French accent now. 
    Demic
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    edited June 7
    JaimieT said:

    Does anyone know what that rich rady meant when she asked Protestant pastor lady, "Aren't you married?"

    She was just joking around that it sounded like she was coming coming on to her and wanting to stay because of her.

    Not much of an episode. We were due for a catch your breath episode after the string of bangers they've thrown at us. A couple interesting reveals, but mostly just served to set up future stuff.
    JaimieT
  • when is the podcast coming ?
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    Some surprisingly good comedy in this episode. 
    Elisa
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited June 7
    Also this whole censoring fuck as forget thing is really awkward and hopefully will go away once it’s on Amazon. 
    manhattnikDrCynPiz
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited June 7
    Hoo boy, I had a lot of issues with this one, which is unusual for this show.

    OK - what the hell is with all these ships flying willy nilly into the Ring? I mean Holden and crew had both desperation and a reason to think it would be okay. They pretty much had to. But Mars flies a ship inside just to go after them? What? And then the Belters fly the freakin' Nauvoo into it? Isn't this by far their biggest ship? With high ranking leaders on board? Now the UN is flying one of their big ships in? Is everyone insane? Send a unmanned probe in, and then, if you have to, a manned probe in for god's sake. 

    I realize a ship poked in and back out, but still found this very reckless on everyone's part. This is a protomolecule door leading to who knows where. I'm really curious how the book describes all this. Not just the action, but the space inside the ring.

    At some point, I just acquiesced and was able to sort of enjoy the madness of it all. 

    The Mao flashbacks felt a bit shoehorned in and uninteresting, though I liked seeing Julie again. I had liked Melba up until I realized this was about impressing her Dad, and now I just think she's kind of pathetic.

    (I'm wondering if Melba's supervisor/mentor comes back somehow, a la Miller. Nobody mentioned it, but that actor has been in tons of stuff going back to the 80's. I bet his IMDB page is a mile long. He was the "cool janitor" in the Breakfast Club.)

    Felt like an inordinate amount of time was spent on the pastors deciding what they were going to do, and I didn't care about it.

    The documentary crew stuff was a little confusing too. One minute Amos is threatening the woman, and then we come back and he's got them suited up in an airlock. Then they just ... send them out? Again into this unknown nebulous thing they're inside, hoping they get picked up so they can send a message? They know one of these people was possibly sabotaging them. Why even trust them? Seems like at this point it might be better to keep them and have them record their side of things, and then surrender.

    I was just getting used to Naomi being with the Belters and kind of digging it, and now she's leaving them. She seemed shocked by the Belter's enthusiastic chanting, and I wasn't sure why. What did she think this was going to be like? Then she deserts them as a fairly high ranking officer and Drummer just lets her go. Wasn't really surprised by the latter, but more the way it happened - that Naomi didn't just go to her and explain herself. Didn't seem like her to just take off. 

  • edited June 7
    I have a special place in my heart for Amos, both in the book and what Wes Chatham has done with him in the show. So much so that last season when Pax's friend got spaced I was deeply disturbed by it but Amos tapping on the airlock telling the news crew they better put on their helmets had me in tears of laughter.
    Elisa
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    I liked Alex and Holden's bit with the door. I can't even remember what he did now, but for some reason Alex especially cracked me up with the lead-up and then his reaction.
    Melonusk
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited June 7
    chrisk said:
    Hoo boy, I had a lot of issues with this one, which is unusual for this show.

    OK - what the hell is with all these ships flying willy nilly into the Ring? I mean Holden and crew had both desperation and a reason to think it would be okay. They pretty much had to. But Mars flies a ship inside just to go after them? What? And then the Belters fly the freakin' Nauvoo into it? Isn't this by far their biggest ship? With high ranking leaders on board? Now the UN is flying one of their big ships in? Is everyone insane? Send a unmanned probe in, and then, if you have to, a manned probe in for god's sake. 

    I realize a ship poked in and back out, but still found this very reckless on everyone's part. This is a protomolecule door leading to who knows where. I'm really curious how the book describes all this. Not just the action, but the space inside the ring.

    At some point, I just acquiesced and was able to sort of enjoy the madness of it all. 

    The Mao flashbacks felt a bit shoehorned in and uninteresting, though I liked seeing Julie again. I had liked Melba up until I realized this was about impressing her Dad, and now I just think she's kind of pathetic.

    (I'm wondering if Melba's supervisor/mentor comes back somehow, a la Miller. Nobody mentioned it, but that actor has been in tons of stuff going back to the 80's. I bet his IMDB page is a mile long. He was the "cool janitor" in the Breakfast Club.)

    Felt like an inordinate amount of time was spent on the pastors deciding what they were going to do, and I didn't care about it.

    The documentary crew stuff was a little confusing too. One minute Amos is threatening the woman, and then we come back and he's got them suited up in an airlock. Then they just ... send them out? Again into this unknown nebulous thing they're inside, hoping they get picked up so they can send a message? They know one of these people was possibly sabotaging them. Why even trust them? Seems like at this point it might be better to keep them and have them record their side of things, and then surrender.

    I was just getting used to Naomi being with the Belters and kind of digging it, and now she's leaving them. She seemed shocked by the Belter's enthusiastic chanting, and I wasn't sure why. What did she think this was going to be like? Then she deserts them as a fairly high ranking officer and Drummer just lets her go. Wasn't really surprised by the latter, but more the way it happened - that Naomi didn't just go to her and explain herself. Didn't seem like her to just take off. 


    > "OK - what the hell is with all these ships flying willy nilly into the Ring?"

    Holden had just flown in, so it makes sense they would wonder if he had some intel about how it was a safe(r) environment.

    > "Is everyone insane?"

    They have First Contact fever.

    > "I'm really curious how the book describes all this. Not just the action, but the space inside the ring."

    Do we allow book spoilers in this thread? Not saying you're asking for a reply in this thread, just wondering about policy. 

    > "I had liked Melba up until I realized this was about impressing her Dad, and now I just think she's kind of pathetic."

    When impressing your dad means you get to be the successor to a huge company...

    > "They know one of these people was possibly sabotaging them. Why even trust them?"

    Doesn't look they have any other choice. And the people have already done the worst damage they can do; they don't get more dangerous when let out.

    > "She seemed shocked by the Belter's enthusiastic chanting, and I wasn't sure why. What did she think this was going to be like?"

    It's not necessarily that the Belters are acting differently than expected but that she's acting differently than them. She's realizing she doesn't fit in. (Similar to deconverting from a religion, this.) 

    > "Didn't seem like her to just take off."

    Drummer was having her dragged off the bridge and such, last episode. Also Naomi can become pretty non-confrontational when she feels left out. It's like she just gives up.

    ---

    I think this episode was a tad rushed, but I found it pretty empty anyway so I don't mind that. Move the chess pieces, get to the interesting stuff, which presumably is Holden going to the core thingy.
    MelonuskPangs
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    The Naomi stuff didn't bother me that much. i think I'm more just disappointed that Naomi didn't hang out longer. Felt like the writers had found a good direction for her, and I hadn't felt that way about her in a while.
    Elisa
  • LordByLordBy Utah
    Melba is her undercover name and she has a better real name in the books so hopefully they use it.

    I loved the creepy visuals inside the ring and the more “fully operational” version of “Miller.”

    They all went in ultimately because of politics. Mars rushed it because, you know, they’re Martians and they really want to nail Holden and get their stolen/salvaged ship back. Then they let everyone know that it was survivable inside, and that you could get back out as well, so the UN and Belters couldn’t accept leaving this possibly-valuable alien phenomenon to Mars uncontested. if one faction gets in and sets up shop, then they’re obviously going to claim ownership or at least squatter’s-rights.

    Sure the protomolecule is scary and dangerous, but what’s worse than whatever it could be is your opponent having access to something scary and dangerous that you don’t have access to.

    These are military folks and you don’t cede or potentially-valuable ground to the enemy, even if you’re operating under an uneasy truce.
    nafnafJaimieTPangsken hale
  • @JaimieT I would “hope” no book spoilers make it to these threads (if so they “should” be properly tagged/hidden). It becomes a slippery slope and one place I visit I rarely check The Expanse thread as it is heavily populated by book readers who mention the book often. 
    rkcrawf
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited June 7
    KingKobra said:
    @JaimieT I would “hope” no book spoilers make it to these threads (if so they “should” be properly tagged/hidden). It becomes a slippery slope and one place I visit I rarely check The Expanse thread as it is heavily populated by book readers who mention the book often. 

    Yeah, me too. I don't want to know anything, and for some reason with this fandom that feels controversial? It's respected in other fandoms though. :neutral:

    Even this whole business of "she has another name!"... You gotta be real careful talking in hypotheticals around here. Even saying something doesn't make sense got me spoiled once.

    Props to Jim re: "I was hoping they'd show Miller." After he said that I was thinking, dammit, why did he tell us this was unimportant to the plot? Then I remembered how A-Ron had a policy of being allowed to throw Jim off in Game of Thrones and thought Jim could have been doing that as well, and I was okay. This possibility was affirmed last podcast too. 
    KingKobrarkcrawf
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    LordBy said:
    Melba is her undercover name and she has a better real name in the books so hopefully they use it.

    I loved the creepy visuals inside the ring and the more “fully operational” version of “Miller.”

    They all went in ultimately because of politics. Mars rushed it because, you know, they’re Martians and they really want to nail Holden and get their stolen/salvaged ship back. Then they let everyone know that it was survivable inside, and that you could get back out as well, so the UN and Belters couldn’t accept leaving this possibly-valuable alien phenomenon to Mars uncontested. if one faction gets in and sets up shop, then they’re obviously going to claim ownership or at least squatter’s-rights.

    Sure the protomolecule is scary and dangerous, but what’s worse than whatever it could be is your opponent having access to something scary and dangerous that you don’t have access to.

    These are military folks and you don’t cede or potentially-valuable ground to the enemy, even if you’re operating under an uneasy truce.
    I see that, it was more the number of people and the kinds of ships they were sending in. Seemed to me the UN ship is pretty large, and the Nauvoo/Behemoth is especially large and I'd think significant in the Belter fleet.

    Still not sure I buy the Martians making that plunge to go get people who as far as they know are either dead or never to return. I can't remember now if any probes were sent before them, but after the Roci.

  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    So about the inside of the ring - it seems they're in some kind of nebulous gas that still has all the same gravitational properties as normal "space", but there's some kind of nucleus at a distance from the ring, which is where Holden is headed. But also, there's a barrier that is I guess aligned with the opening of the ring? Like they're in a sphere and any attempt to leave it except for the opening will kill them. Does that seem right?
    rkcrawf
  • LordByLordBy Utah
    Sorry about the name thing if it was over the line.

    A Martian probe did pop in and back out before the Martian ship entered the ring so they aren’t completely insane in their pursuit of the Roci.

    On within the ring I was seeing it as a nebulous spherical wall/barrier that appears to be uncrossable surrounding the objct at the center. I wasn’t seeing a gas, but rather the cloudy opposite side of that sphere when they were looking across a transparent space within it.

    I don’t know about gravitational properties, but there is clearly a speed limit.
    JaimieTKingKobra
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    I feel like they might have used Melba's real name last night in the family scenes, but I don't recall now.

    Yeah, the speed thing confuses me a bit. The missile is clearly slowed, but I missed the specifics on what Alex was able to do with the ship. Naomi didn't seem too hampered in heading to the Roci though. So is there a flat maximum speed or is everything slowed down relative to the amount of propulsion it's using? I wonder how that affects Holden and the other two floated out of the Roci. 
  • chrisk said:
    I feel like they might have used Melba's real name last night in the family scenes, but I don't recall now.

    Yeah, the speed thing confuses me a bit. The missile is clearly slowed, but I missed the specifics on what Alex was able to do with the ship. Naomi didn't seem too hampered in heading to the Roci though. So is there a flat maximum speed or is everything slowed down relative to the amount of propulsion it's using? I wonder how that affects Holden and the other two floated out of the Roci. 
    Re: Melba's real name. Back in season 2 when Chrisjen was imposing economic sanctions/political pressure on Mao's businesses on earth to draw him out of hiding Errinwright mentioned that Mao's eldest daughter was named Clarissa and Mao adored her (apparently not enough). I don't know if Mao has more than two daughters but if he doesn't that would be Melba's real name. Still I would love to hear @A_Ron_Hubbard say "Melba Mao" with his cartoon French accent at least once.
    Elisa
  • LordByLordBy Utah
    I think the max speed was some number of kilometers-per-second (I think Alex said something like 6 or 8 kps) so you can still get going really fast, just not like torpedo or show-off-belter-dude fast.
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited June 7
    Re the name thing, @Demic is correct, they have mentioned Melba’s real name in show before this so I wouldn’t consider that specific thing to be a book spoiler. Otherwise there is a specific thread for book spoilers if people want to discuss them there, don’t post any book spoilers in the tv threads. 
    JaimieT
  • wow, 3 seasons of epic and all thrown away for one extremely lame, and completely unbelievable story line. Mao has another daughter now on revenge path? C'mon, like she wouldn't be one of the most recognizable faces in the Universe.
    Doctor_Nick
  • LordByLordBy Utah
    I don’t know about that, I wouldn’t know one of Jeff Bezos’s kids if they came up and hit me in the face.
  • LordBy said:
    I don’t know about that, I wouldn’t know one of Jeff Bezos’s kids if they came up and hit me in the face.
    Except they did make her out to be a very public debutante type though constantly arranging social gatherings and whatnot, so it seems like it would be more like a Paris Hilton or Ivanka Trump, which would be quite odd.
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