210 - The Passenger

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  • I think Emily in the park was real, and this version of Emily is from her data from visiting Westworld. 

    Deloras was to Arnold what Emily is to William. 
    budesignsJacquelineElisarkcrawf
  • KingKobra said:
    Here I am the only one thinking that Stubbs is human and has just been “in on it” (which is why he said he was hired personally by Ford). He’s known about the side projects, Bernard, etc and has basically been playing “dumb” (sort of). His job was to protect certain hosts which he has always done (if we go back and watch now his actions may make more sense) b
    Yea, the main evidence I have for him being a host is how he is deferential about the timeline of when he was "hired." But honestly, I think it's less important than him basically being on the side of the hosts. I think him talking about monitoring the hosts "in the park" (italicized in the CC) is him telling Dolores to "do you" on the outside.
  • KingKobra said:
    Dummy said:
    Stubbs being a host pisses me off, honestly. Why have any real people? I thought one of the points of the show was to compare and contrast the differences/similarities between hosts and guests. Now everyone is a host. Now I'm a host. The quadruple twist! 
    Stubbs is a real Human that was “in on it” the entire time with Ford. He was an original hire and has always known Bernard is a host (he’s always treated him special). I think if we go back and watch this piece of information will make many of his decisions “make sense”. 


    ghm3 said:
    I don't quite get how Stubbs knew Hale was a host; is it just because she told him to go look for the survivors and he knew the real Hale would never do that? And then saw her leaving when the real Hale wouldn't? 
    He saw her pulling the gun when she was about to be checked. He also knew what Hale’s objectives were and that the real Hale wouldn’t leave the project unattended. He was much more aware than we previously have known. 
    Maybe, but even the director of the episode thinks he's a host
    https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/06/westworld-finale-is-stubbs-a-host-robot?mbid=social_twitter
    KingKobraMFGElisa
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    I don’t understand why the show insists on being a puzzle when invariably the part puzzled out is the least interesting part of the show. I wish William was dead and I don’t care if Dolores kills all humans or not, or if Bernard stops her.

    I’m very much having that feeling I got about Walking Dead in Season 2, with a voice telling me to stop watching. But I will say the highs are higher on this show than that TWD ever managed. I’ve still got Maeve, and maybe Akecheta. 
    JaimieTMFGElisaken hale
  • edited June 2018
    So this is the X-Men, right? I was thinking that when Maeve was doing all her superpower shit, and then at the end Delores very specifically explains "I'm going to be Magneto and you'll be Professor X and we'll fight each other over how to protect our kind."

    The big reveal about Hale felt extremely obvious and belabored as soon as we knew the old-timeline version was headed to the Forge. And there were about 10,000 plot points that felt like they probably didn't make total sense, but it's impossible to keep it all straight. Still fun to watch.
    Elisa
  • chrisk said:
    I don’t understand why the show insists on being a puzzle when invariably the part puzzled out is the least interesting part of the show. I wish William was dead and I don’t care if Dolores kills all humans or not, or if Bernard stops her.

    I’m very much having that feeling I got about Walking Dead in Season 2, with a voice telling me to stop watching. But I will say the highs are higher on this show than that TWD ever managed. I’ve still got Maeve, and maybe Akecheta. 
    The puzzle box is what drives many on Reddit, which is something the show actively monitors/interacts with. 
    majjam0770
  • edited June 2018
    Dummy said:
    KingKobra said:
    Dummy said:
    Stubbs being a host pisses me off, honestly. Why have any real people? I thought one of the points of the show was to compare and contrast the differences/similarities between hosts and guests. Now everyone is a host. Now I'm a host. The quadruple twist! 
    Stubbs is a real Human that was “in on it” the entire time with Ford. He was an original hire and has always known Bernard is a host (he’s always treated him special). I think if we go back and watch this piece of information will make many of his decisions “make sense”. 


    ghm3 said:
    I don't quite get how Stubbs knew Hale was a host; is it just because she told him to go look for the survivors and he knew the real Hale would never do that? And then saw her leaving when the real Hale wouldn't? 
    He saw her pulling the gun when she was about to be checked. He also knew what Hale’s objectives were and that the real Hale wouldn’t leave the project unattended. He was much more aware than we previously have known. 
    Maybe, but even the director of the episode thinks he's a host
    https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/06/westworld-finale-is-stubbs-a-host-robot?mbid=social_twitter
    Don’t go messing with my theory with facts and ish :p 
    DummyMichellemajjam0770Murderbear
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited June 2018
    If Emily or whoever is running a fidelity test on William in the future, be it in the real or virtual world, I dont really understand why they would choose his surrounding to make it look like he's in abandoned Westworld lab 200 years into the future. The subject would be shocked and not feel any continuity of their reality.

    That would be like dropping  Bernard off on a beach with half the Statue of Liberty sticking out of the sand for fidelity trial #457.
    Surprise Bernard, the maniacs blew it all up.
    Doctor_Nickbudesignsmajjam0770MFGElisa
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    KingKobra said:
    chrisk said:
    I don’t understand why the show insists on being a puzzle when invariably the part puzzled out is the least interesting part of the show. I wish William was dead and I don’t care if Dolores kills all humans or not, or if Bernard stops her.

    I’m very much having that feeling I got about Walking Dead in Season 2, with a voice telling me to stop watching. But I will say the highs are higher on this show than that TWD ever managed. I’ve still got Maeve, and maybe Akecheta. 
    The puzzle box is what drives many on Reddit, which is something the show actively monitors/interacts with. 
    That was more a rhetorical question. 
    JaimieT
  • Dummy said:
    KingKobra said:
    Dummy said:
    Stubbs being a host pisses me off, honestly. Why have any real people? I thought one of the points of the show was to compare and contrast the differences/similarities between hosts and guests. Now everyone is a host. Now I'm a host. The quadruple twist! 
    Stubbs is a real Human that was “in on it” the entire time with Ford. He was an original hire and has always known Bernard is a host (he’s always treated him special). I think if we go back and watch this piece of information will make many of his decisions “make sense”. 


    ghm3 said:
    I don't quite get how Stubbs knew Hale was a host; is it just because she told him to go look for the survivors and he knew the real Hale would never do that? And then saw her leaving when the real Hale wouldn't? 
    He saw her pulling the gun when she was about to be checked. He also knew what Hale’s objectives were and that the real Hale wouldn’t leave the project unattended. He was much more aware than we previously have known. 
    Maybe, but even the director of the episode thinks he's a host
    https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/06/westworld-finale-is-stubbs-a-host-robot?mbid=social_twitter

    Great, Stubbs is the new Deckard.
    DummyKingKobraMurderbearrkcrawfmanhattnik
  • If Emily or whoever is running a fidelity test on William in the future, be it in the real or virtual world, I dont really understand why they would choose his surrounding to make it look like he's in abandoned Westworld lab 200 years into the future. The subject would be shocked and not feel any continuity of their reality.

    That would be like dropping  Bernard off on a beach with half the Statue of Liberty sticking out of the sand for fidelity trial #457.
    Surprise Bernard, the maniacs blew it all up.
    That could be the point though (not connecting to reality). The working tests were always “close”, not exact matches. 
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    Wait until Dolores finds out the whole world is hosts. 
    majjam0770Elisa
  • budesignsbudesigns Tega Cay, SC
    I'm just looking forward to S3, which I assume will be a Kimmy Schmidt-like comedy about life in the big city for Dolores, Charlores, and ... Bernlores? (plus whoever else was in Charlores's purse earlier). Basically, the whole cast are different identities/agents for Dolores to inhabit. Hilarity ensues. 
    alexander.klassenOldGriswold
  • Real subtle but powerful message on addiction. 

    The scene with Delos and Logan was great. I read that scene that the belief is addiction is a disease and written in some people’s DNA.

    not sure if I’m overthinking the scene as it hits close to home but it definitely seems that way. 
    KingKobramajjam0770Eine Frau
  • This. Show. Is. A. Mess.

    In other news, this show is LOST part deux 
    majjam0770JaimieTMFGCapeGabeElisaGredalBeeken haleTeresa from Concord
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    You know that comparison Aron uses about walking through a haunted house but expecting everything around the corner? I feel like I’m past that maze, just walking around the house for five hours now and I just wanna get out and pee.
    I’m just so goddamn confused that I really don’t care anymore. I’m trying to cut straight through the hedgemaze. 

    I’ve come to realize that I absolutely despise alternate timelines/time travel whatever else bs that goes along with that. 

    All the misdirection or whatever you wanna call it.... didn’t pay off for me. I gave it a pass last season because it was a fun journey but this season felt like driving through the hot desert with no AC. Very hard to imagine any designation making a trip like that worth it. 
    JaimieTMFGElisa
  • Hatorian said:
    Real subtle but powerful message on addiction. 

    The scene with Delos and Logan was great. I read that scene that the belief is addiction is a disease and written in some people’s DNA.

    not sure if I’m overthinking the scene as it hits close to home but it definitely seems that way. 
    I loved the way they brought around the "I'm all the way down now" line. Added a lot of weight to the previous Jim Delos scenes.
    KingKobraHatorianJacquelinelengmoEine Frauken hale
  • edited June 2018
    From the interview with Lisa the MIB on the beach is human. The one we see post credits is his brain copied running through the ww destruction for fidelity in a cradle like simulation far into the future. The real William never made it to the elevator and was taken to the beach where his journey ends. The post credit or brain copied version of William has his journey end down the elevator testing for fidelity. It leads to the chamber where they were testing James delos not where Bernard and Dolores were
    Elisarkcrawf
  • MichelleMichelle California
    casanova said:
    This. Show. Is. A. Mess.

    In other news, this show is LOST part deux 
    No, LOST wasn't *this* fucked up and twisted.  This is on a whole other level.
    casanovaElisarkcrawf
  • Hatorian said:
    Real subtle but powerful message on addiction. 

    The scene with Delos and Logan was great. I read that scene that the belief is addiction is a disease and written in some people’s DNA.

    not sure if I’m overthinking the scene as it hits close to home but it definitely seems that way. 
    I loved the way they brought around the "I'm all the way down now" line. Added a lot of weight to the previous Jim Delos scenes.
    It did.

    also the scene with Delos’ first trip in WW was very “GTA” like. It made me think of what I would do in that situation knowing what I’ve done in GTA. 
  • Do we think they knowingly gave Maeve the Xenia Onatopp one-liner from Goldeneye when she killed the butcher tech before the stampede?
  • Do we think they knowingly gave Maeve the Xenia Onatopp one-liner from Goldeneye when she killed the butcher tech before the stampede?
    I don’t think she killed him. They purposely showed them stop well before it was deadly. But again why not just have the hosts with their superior strength subdue him. 
  • Fun fact, the upload screen in the Forge says it's uploading 1.2 exabytes (actually it calls it a 'packet' which is funny for reasons I won't get into). This is roughly equivalent to ~2.x times Netflix's entire catalog.

    Anyway, at 4 million guest files that's 300GB of data per guest. Zuckerberg would be proud, that's a lot of bathroom stall foot-tapping.
    DummyHatorianKingKobra
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited June 2018
    Some overall thoughts after a second viewing 

    1. Why does Delores just assume the outside world is real? Why wouldn’t Arnold combat this with questions around the “real” world could be just as fictitious as WW. Some of the smartest minds on our planet believe we are in a simulation. Are we going to get an end of series where Delores finds out none of this is “real” and in the end only what you believe is actually what matters?

    2. I think that the whole time jump stuff took away from what was great about the season. i really hope there’s no time jumps in season 3. We have had 2 Seasons full of it and while it contributed to reddit/forums. I also think it’s a reason why viewership drops. 

    3. I still don’t understand how the guns and simuammintion works. How it can just change at will. Maybe I missed the explanation. 

    4. Pretty convienent ending for season 2 where all our favourite characters  will be coming back based on the last few minutes of the episode

    5. Maybe I missed it but did they ever explain how the hell Teddy got to the water? Did they ever explain how such a massive place could lead Delores to Emily’s body and MIB?

    6. Finally saw some real Army guys. If they are going to be in the next season I really hope they are not as incompetent as Delos security
    chriskElisa
  • Just finished watching it and I am feeling - angry.  There is a bunch of good, even borderline great stuff in the episode  (and the season) yet the feeling I am left with is what a mess.  Not going to enumerate issues as there are three pages of comments before mine right now that pretty much ask the basic questions that I have and have generated some good discussion.  Just wanted to rant a little.  

    The good things I can think of now is that they aren't too far gone to make things better in season 3.  Hope they get rid of the excessively cryptic BS and focus on good story-building.  Another nice touch was it was genuinely emotional to me when Dolores put Teddy through "the door" (at least that is how I interpreted what she did).  Glad he got a bit of a happy ending.

    I look forward to the recap podcast, I think that will help sort things out a bit.


     
    Elisaken hale
  • Wow. I thought there was some unwritten rule for the number of plot holes allowed in a top tier HBO show. If not for Lisa Joy's interview, one could argue that what we just watched was a simulation just for William's sake. I don't care much for showrunners explaining what should have been self evident on screen, but it would be a revelation to receive an explanation as to why the season and maybe even the series has been broken. What are really the stakes now if no robot can die and there can be multiple iterations of them in multiple places? If the robots are destined to win, will poorly constructed puzzles and plot reveals be the show's fate? I wanted the robots to establish a virtual world for themselves in this story. Oh boy, never mind once I saw Ake's mate in the simulation lol. Too much head scratching to bother, really.
    JaimieTchriskElisa
  • lengmolengmo RTP, NC
    roscoe said:
    I wanted the robots to establish a virtual world for themselves in this story. Oh boy, never mind once I saw Ake's mate in the simulation lol. Too much head scratching to bother, really.
    The Sublime is a magical world where the hosts can make anything happen, including conjuring lost loved ones.  At least that's what I tell myself.  A magical world magically transmitted to a magical set of coordinates Delores might have found in a magical book.  Gag. 

    I just rewatched s1 and, while I appreciate the depth s2 added to it, s1 seems far superior as entertainment.  Given the s2 scene with Stubbs and Halores was rewritten the night before, I don't have a lot of confidence s2 was a finely crafted puzzle box.  Maybe not a junk drawer, but less than the sum of its parts.
    JaimieTElisaroscoe
  • Michelle said:
    What. the. actual. fuck.  
    The officially unofficial name of the Instant Talk. 
    ElisaMichelle
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    The reddit thread titled "Congrats! Everyone's theories are right!" sums it up pretty well.
    MFG
This discussion has been closed.