Update on Commissioned Podcasts in the Future?

anubus21

Hey @A_Ron_Hubbard and @Jim have you guys come up with a way to open commissioned podcasts back up? I know ya'll were trying to figure out a way to do it that wouldn't end up with a queue that is 30 movies/tv long. Don't know if ya'll have talked about this lately on the lunch podcast or anything but wanted to check in since I would love to commission another one. 

One idea would be to let people email you with suggestions (give people like a 1 week window to send it in and they can choose 5 movies/tv shows) and then you can take the top voted 15-20 movies/tv series and put them on the store for community commission? I would be happy to help you guys with this since it would be a lot of emails to go through, but would like to get commissions rolling again so I'm willing to chip in time for free 

anubus21

You could make it an annual event for commissioned podcasts to send in the suggestions and post them in the store. If any of the movies from the previous year don't get completely commissioned you can email those people to move their money to a movie/tv series listed for the next year or refund it.

JaimieT

I think they should go the Disney World route and price everyone out. People get really mad when Disney raises their prices, but they still end up going to the parks and enjoying themselves... they just don't go quite as often. It's the only way Disney can keep their parks from becoming a fucking crowded nightmare.

I don't like the concept of voting with these because voting was never the point. I guess I really like the original concept and hope they stick with that. 

Another thing I believe has changed since the commissioned podcast became a thing is they have first-run movie podcasts. So it's not like we, who may be priced out, will only hear their opinions on niche films.

anubus21

They could price it out of range to cut down on the number of commissions but they would have to offer more for an elevated cost. I don't think anyone will do a $500 commission unless it's like 2 movies or 5-6 episodes of a tv series. 

I know voting was never the point but people have shown they will do community commissions if given the option, and if it is the only option I think folks will jump on it for more content.

KingKobra

@JaimieT I think that’s what the guys want to do. Price it high enough to make it “hard” to do one. That way people are really sure and they don’t end up with a ton of backlogs.

The hardest part is finding that “sweet spot” as far as pricing goes. If they price too high, they lose out on an income stream, if they go high then low they possibly piss off those that went in at the higher price. 

Im also against the voting system, as that kind of defeats the purpose of the commission. The system now is basically just that, except you vote with your wallet. 

JaimieT

anubus21 said:

They could price it out of range to cut down on the number of commissions but they would have to offer more for an elevated cost. I don't think anyone will do a $500 commission unless it's like 2 movies or 5-6 episodes of a tv series. 

They don't have to offer more for an elevated cost. I think there are a lot of metrics to defend the fact that their time has become more valuable since the $300 price tag was set. Perhaps the main one is the fact that people bought out all their $300 "time" over a year in advance of them filling it and aren't asking for refunds.

I think $500 is still low, but I'm speculating and have nothing to base that on.

JoshTheBlack

Maybe a flexible price that goes up the longer the queue is.

jhpark

I recall them saying that they didn't want to set the price too high because they want to keep the option accessible to people who can't afford to pay a higher price, and there's a balancing act to be done. 

anubus21

I've bought a lot of the commissions and helped out with one of the community commissions as well. I would like to do more but anything over $500 would be shooting themselves in the foot in my opinion. I can justify $300 or maybe $400, but $500 would put it out of my reach except for maybe once in a blue moon.

Problem is also if you go higher than $500 then you leave all the commissions in the hands of folks who are more affluent and I don'y know that your income level should mean you get the privilege of commissions podcasts. 

Think community commissions are a better avenue so everyone can get a go. If they don't want to have people vote then they can choose the selections. Only problem with that is they might not commission a movie that could great. I commissioned American Gangster (which I don't think either of them had seen) and they loved it, and it did well during the Baldies. Hidden gems are the great parts about commissions.

anubus21

They could poll all the people who have bought to try and determine what is too much. Or they could limit it to 1 commission a year (as well as hiking the price to say $400)

anubus21

Big difference for me now is that since my last commission I got married (which was when I asked them to do American Gangster), bought a house and my wife is now pregnant. Can't blow money on commissions like I used to be able to, but one a year would make me a happy dork haha

asmallcat

They should just make it, like, a $10 pledge (can't go higher or lower) and only make the podcast (and take the money) if the pledges hit a grand. Then you know that at least 100 people thought this podcast was worth $10, so the guys don't feel like they're making it for like 5 people. 

JaimieT

jhpark said:

I recall them saying that they didn't want to set the price too high because they want to keep the option accessible to people who can't afford to pay a higher price, and there's a balancing act to be done. 

Yeah, and I think they know what they're going to do already anyway.

I'm wondering if it's a lottery, like Ham4Ham. If you won the Ham4Ham lottery, you could pay $10 to get a Hamilton ticket. Lin-Manuel Miranda did that so that Hamilton could still be accessible to people who couldn't afford the $200-$1000 tickets. 

But I still like having the option to just buy something. I saved up and bought a Hamilton ticket... no way I was chancing a lottery.

JaimieT

anubus21 said:

Big difference for me now is that since my last commission I got married (which was when I asked them to do American Gangster), bought a house and my wife is now pregnant. Can't blow money on commissions like I used to be able to, but one a year would make me a happy dork haha

Since I last commissioned, I had a son, saw him graduate high school, get a job, a Master's degree, then die in a World War. His son and I visit his grave sometimes, and my mind goes to that place on a cloudy grey day. I'm still in the queue.

KingKobra

anubus21 said:

I've bought a lot of the commissions and helped out with one of the community commissions as well. I would like to do more but anything over $500 would be shooting themselves in the foot in my opinion. I can justify $300 or maybe $400, but $500 would put it out of my reach except for maybe once in a blue moon.

Problem is also if you go higher than $500 then you leave all the commissions in the hands of folks who are more affluent and I don'y know that your income level should mean you get the privilege of commissions podcasts. 

Think community commissions are a better avenue so everyone can get a go. If they don't want to have people vote then they can choose the selections. Only problem with that is they might not commission a movie that could great. I commissioned American Gangster (which I don't think either of them had seen) and they loved it, and it did well during the Baldies. Hidden gems are the great parts about commissions.

In your case 500 would be a good point. They don’t want it to be “easy”, that’s how they got the queue they have now.

Remember much of the community commissions are multiple people buying shares. This way it’s something that more than one person has interest in and has more chance of being listened to. 

asmallcat

JaimieT said:

anubus21 said:

Big difference for me now is that since my last commission I got married (which was when I asked them to do American Gangster), bought a house and my wife is now pregnant. Can't blow money on commissions like I used to be able to, but one a year would make me a happy dork haha

Since I last commissioned, I had a son, saw him graduate high school, get a job, a Master's degree, then die in a World War. His son and I visit his grave sometimes, and my mind goes to that place on a cloudy grey day. I'm still in the queue.

The fact that @KingKobra marked this as "insightful" is the icing on the cake. 

anubus21

KingKobra said:

anubus21 said:

I've bought a lot of the commissions and helped out with one of the community commissions as well. I would like to do more but anything over $500 would be shooting themselves in the foot in my opinion. I can justify $300 or maybe $400, but $500 would put it out of my reach except for maybe once in a blue moon.

Problem is also if you go higher than $500 then you leave all the commissions in the hands of folks who are more affluent and I don'y know that your income level should mean you get the privilege of commissions podcasts. 

Think community commissions are a better avenue so everyone can get a go. If they don't want to have people vote then they can choose the selections. Only problem with that is they might not commission a movie that could great. I commissioned American Gangster (which I don't think either of them had seen) and they loved it, and it did well during the Baldies. Hidden gems are the great parts about commissions.

In your case 500 would be a good point. They don’t want it to be “easy”, that’s how they got the queue they have now.

Remember much of the community commissions are multiple people buying shares. This way it’s something that more than one person has interest in and has more chance of being listened to. 

I spent more of my disposable income on commissions than I should have. I don't make shit load of money, but if I did I don't know why that would automatically make it ok to charge me more. Are ya'll taking economic lessons from Bernie?

And I said I think community commissions are the better avenue so not arguing about that point. If I have to give up commissioning my own podcasts and just do community ones that is fine, just want to have more of them and on a regular basis.

anubus21

JaimieT said:

anubus21 said:

Big difference for me now is that since my last commission I got married (which was when I asked them to do American Gangster), bought a house and my wife is now pregnant. Can't blow money on commissions like I used to be able to, but one a year would make me a happy dork haha

Since I last commissioned, I had a son, saw him graduate high school, get a job, a Master's degree, then die in a World War. His son and I visit his grave sometimes, and my mind goes to that place on a cloudy grey day. I'm still in the queue.

Sorry, am I supposed to apologize for having spent my money to commission podcasts?

KingKobra

anubus21 said:

KingKobra said:

anubus21 said:

I've bought a lot of the commissions and helped out with one of the community commissions as well. I would like to do more but anything over $500 would be shooting themselves in the foot in my opinion. I can justify $300 or maybe $400, but $500 would put it out of my reach except for maybe once in a blue moon.

Problem is also if you go higher than $500 then you leave all the commissions in the hands of folks who are more affluent and I don'y know that your income level should mean you get the privilege of commissions podcasts. 

Think community commissions are a better avenue so everyone can get a go. If they don't want to have people vote then they can choose the selections. Only problem with that is they might not commission a movie that could great. I commissioned American Gangster (which I don't think either of them had seen) and they loved it, and it did well during the Baldies. Hidden gems are the great parts about commissions.

In your case 500 would be a good point. They don’t want it to be “easy”, that’s how they got the queue they have now.

Remember much of the community commissions are multiple people buying shares. This way it’s something that more than one person has interest in and has more chance of being listened to. 

I spent more of my disposable income on commissions than I should have. I don't make shit load of money, but if I did I don't know why that would automatically make it ok to charge me more. Are ya'll taking economic lessons from Bernie?

And I said I think community commissions are the better avenue so not arguing about that point. If I have to give up commissioning my own podcasts and just do community ones that is fine, just want to have more of them and on a regular basis.

You’re missing the point that has been made by the guys and what we are trying to convey to you. $300/350 is too cheap (obviously). The entire point is to not only pay the guys for the time and effort they put into a commissioned cast, but to make it prohibitively expensive to where people aren’t buying them at multiples a month clip. It has NOTHING to do with how much one person makes. It has everything to do with making them attainable, but not “easily” where the guys get deluged by them.  

JaimieT

@anubus21 - No. You inspired a joke that had nothing to do with you.

anubus21

KingKobra said:

anubus21 said:

KingKobra said:

anubus21 said:

I've bought a lot of the commissions and helped out with one of the community commissions as well. I would like to do more but anything over $500 would be shooting themselves in the foot in my opinion. I can justify $300 or maybe $400, but $500 would put it out of my reach except for maybe once in a blue moon.

Problem is also if you go higher than $500 then you leave all the commissions in the hands of folks who are more affluent and I don'y know that your income level should mean you get the privilege of commissions podcasts. 

Think community commissions are a better avenue so everyone can get a go. If they don't want to have people vote then they can choose the selections. Only problem with that is they might not commission a movie that could great. I commissioned American Gangster (which I don't think either of them had seen) and they loved it, and it did well during the Baldies. Hidden gems are the great parts about commissions.

In your case 500 would be a good point. They don’t want it to be “easy”, that’s how they got the queue they have now.

Remember much of the community commissions are multiple people buying shares. This way it’s something that more than one person has interest in and has more chance of being listened to. 

I spent more of my disposable income on commissions than I should have. I don't make shit load of money, but if I did I don't know why that would automatically make it ok to charge me more. Are ya'll taking economic lessons from Bernie?

And I said I think community commissions are the better avenue so not arguing about that point. If I have to give up commissioning my own podcasts and just do community ones that is fine, just want to have more of them and on a regular basis.

You’re missing the point that has been made by the guys and what we are trying to convey to you. $300/350 is too cheap (obviously). The entire point is to not only pay the guys for the time and effort they put into a commissioned cast, but to make it prohibitively expensive to where people aren’t buying them at multiples a month clip. It has NOTHING to do with how much one person makes. It has everything to do with making them attainable, but not “easily” where the guys get deluged by them.  

Strangely I do get your point since I can read and comprehend english. I know they will raise the price of the podcasts, I just think that over $500 will be problematic unless they make it all community commissions at that price level. It has less to do with missing your point and more with having a different opinion which I know ya'll hate sometimes.

A_Ron_Hubbard

As this discussion illustrates, it is really hard to satisfy all of the cool conditions that made the commissioning experience fun and rewarding.

1) The price. Back when we envisioned it, we thought the price would make commissions so exotic that we'd only see 2-5 a year.  Obviously, that was super wrong, and it was far more approachable than we thought. It was expensive, but in line with a once a year indulgence for someone with middle class income and above. With the debut of community commissions, it was even more reachable and democratic. 

2) The uniqueness. If it was just Jim and I reviewing nostalgia fests, I'm sure we would have gotten to the Star Wars and Goonies and Back to the Futures of the world, but we would never have done something like  The Prophet, Hell or High Water, Pontypool, etc. Getting outside influences keeps things interesting for us.

Right now we're looking into software that will add a demand curve to the queue.  So, the first commission in the queue costs X. Next one will be X + N1, next one will be X + N2.  We hope this will kind of allow the market to set a price.

We're also thinking of making the commissions seasonal.  Say the queue opens up twice a year and accepts 10 slots.  This will allow us to have more management over the queue, will keep the prices from endlessly inflating, and allow us to slot these into the parts of the year that work well for our schedules.

To encourage the community aspect, we could create a forum for commission collaboration and people can use apps like Zelle, Cashapp, Venmo, etc to pool their resources. This is important because it's unlikely that we'll have a store that will support the shares idea like we had before, let alone integrate it into this demand system. Obviously their is a non trivial chance for fraud, but I don't think we have a lot of bad actors in the community and we hope that doesn't become a problem.

We could make commissions cost $1000 and open them up right now. If the queue gets loaded, keep raising until it doesn't. Cut prices when we get caught up. Basic economics. We're just not really enthused about a system that maximizes efficiency and profit at the possible expense of satisfaction and enjoyment. But we'll see how well the community collaborates. I imagine it will be really easy to get 10-30 people to chip in on something popular, and if so, controlling demand through price might be an equitable way to proceed.

But long term, is $1000 "worth it" to Bald Move? Here are some numbers for an Empire Biz I'm working on. So, we're making about $15k/month from the club. Let's say Jim and I work 50 hours a week to "earn" that. That's about 434 man hours a month. Advertising brings in an additional $2500 a month. So that means we generate roughly $40 for each hour of work.

A commissioned podcast takes at minimum 10 man hours to produce given 2ish hours of content. At $350, that means they're less profitable on average than other forms of content. Many commissions require more time than that. Also, last year the clubs monthly recurring revenue was about $8k. While the club's growth appears to be slowing (still a matter of analysis), it's easy to see that even with more modest growth it won't take long to make commissions prohibitively expensive if the only metric is money and value to Bald Move. And that's with our low ad revenue compared to our traffic. 

Speaking as just A.Ron, because this is an idea I just had and Jim's on vacation, but I think a possible future of commissions is make them generators for charity. Then it doesn't really matter what they're value is, or to the extent that they get salty, people feel better about it because it's going to a good cause and just not further lining the pockets of the greedy podcasting industrialists. 

Anyway, lots more of this kind of shit in a soon to be coming Empire Business.

A_Ron_Hubbard

Also, let's de-escalate the thread. I think there are some misinterpreted jokes and some naturally prickly personalities mixing poorly but I'm not going to let that get in the way of gathering valuable feedback. Everybody now argue about my post.

Alkaid13

How dare you makes such an insightful and reasonable post @A_Ron_Hubbard!!! We should be arguing about much more serious topics, like pineapple on pizza!

KingKobra

@A_Ron_Hubbard I don’t envy the position you’re in as I know it can’t be easy. It seems you have a wide range of income levels as fans so making it “fit” for most everyone will be difficult.  


I do like the separate forum section for community casts. It would make it easy to find past casts and ones that are in queue or possibly need funding. I also like the N1 method you described. As that would allow for in demand movies to get done more quickly. With community group sourced involvement, i can see 1/2k getting gobbled up quickly. 

For the charity idea that is a good one, I would think that the “target” would be higher, but it would get content and go to a good cause. 

Alkaid13

On a serious note, the charity thing sounds like a good idea. People would probably feel less upset about their commission not being released in a timely manner if they knew their proceeds were going to a good cause. It probably also works both ways, if you watch a commission and feel bad that you don’t really like it as much as the commissioner then at least you have the knowledge that someone is getting something out of the deal. 

anubus21

Alkaid13 said:

How dare you makes such an insightful and reasonable post @A_Ron_Hubbard!!! We should be arguing about much more serious topics, like pineapple on pizza!

Don't you start, pineapple on pizza is sacrilege!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just give me chorizo all day every day

anubus21

A_Ron_Hubbard said:

As this discussion illustrates, it is really hard to satisfy all of the cool conditions that made the commissioning experience fun and rewarding.

1) The price. Back when we envisioned it, we thought the price would make commissions so exotic that we'd only see 2-5 a year.  Obviously, that was super wrong, and it was far more approachable than we thought. It was expensive, but in line with a once a year indulgence for someone with middle class income and above. With the debut of community commissions, it was even more reachable and democratic. 

2) The uniqueness. If it was just Jim and I reviewing nostalgia fests, I'm sure we would have gotten to the Star Wars and Goonies and Back to the Futures of the world, but we would never have done something like  The Prophet, Hell or High Water, Pontypool, etc. Getting outside influences keeps things interesting for us.

Right now we're looking into software that will add a demand curve to the queue.  So, the first commission in the queue costs X. Next one will be X + N1, next one will be X + N2.  We hope this will kind of allow the market to set a price.

We're also thinking of making the commissions seasonal.  Say the queue opens up twice a year and accepts 10 slots.  This will allow us to have more management over the queue, will keep the prices from endlessly inflating, and allow us to slot these into the parts of the year that work well for our schedules.

To encourage the community aspect, we could create a forum for commission collaboration and people can use apps like Zelle, Cashapp, Venmo, etc to pool their resources. This is important because it's unlikely that we'll have a store that will support the shares idea like we had before, let alone integrate it into this demand system. Obviously their is a non trivial chance for fraud, but I don't think we have a lot of bad actors in the community and we hope that doesn't become a problem.

We could make commissions cost $1000 and open them up right now. If the queue gets loaded, keep raising until it doesn't. Cut prices when we get caught up. Basic economics. We're just not really enthused about a system that maximizes efficiency and profit at the possible expense of satisfaction and enjoyment. But we'll see how well the community collaborates. I imagine it will be really easy to get 10-30 people to chip in on something popular, and if so, controlling demand through price might be an equitable way to proceed.

But long term, is $1000 "worth it" to Bald Move? Here are some numbers for an Empire Biz I'm working on. So, we're making about $15k/month from the club. Let's say Jim and I work 50 hours a week to "earn" that. That's about 434 man hours a month. Advertising brings in an additional $2500 a month. So that means we generate roughly $40 for each hour of work.

A commissioned podcast takes at minimum 10 man hours to produce given 2ish hours of content. At $350, that means they're less profitable on average than other forms of content. Many commissions require more time than that. Also, last year the clubs monthly recurring revenue was about $8k. While the club's growth appears to be slowing (still a matter of analysis), it's easy to see that even with more modest growth it won't take long to make commissions prohibitively expensive if the only metric is money and value to Bald Move. And that's with our low ad revenue compared to our traffic. 

Speaking as just A.Ron, because this is an idea I just had and Jim's on vacation, but I think a possible future of commissions is make them generators for charity. Then it doesn't really matter what they're value is, or to the extent that they get salty, people feel better about it because it's going to a good cause and just not further lining the pockets of the greedy podcasting industrialists. 

Anyway, lots more of this kind of shit in a soon to be coming Empire Business.

I think the demand curve is a good idea and limiting the queue to opening up twice a year. I know you guys were working overtime to get commissions out during your down months with less tv content. If you keep individual commissions in some form then we will still get plenty of unique movies/tv series being commissioned which is important. Weren't there some movies in the store that you guys really wanted to do for a community commission before you took them down (Predator comes to mind, can't remember if you guys ever got around to that one)????

Sorry for being a prickly pear as usual, it's just so hard to not be a grumpy ass sometimes haha. 

anubus21

Don't know if this option would work but you could open the commissions up, say for the first 2-3 weeks of January, and set a price (if you guys calculate 10 hrs. minimum and $40 per hour then shoot for $600 - $650 per commission to make it profitable). You will take 20-25 commissions (depending on what work load you think you guys can handle) and once they are gobbled up, or the 2-3 week period ends, then commissions are done for the year. Gives you a finite number, you can set a schedule for the podcasts and everyone who wants to commission themselves or do a community commission knows exactly when to signup/prepare/save money....thoughts?

MattyWeaves

JaimieT said:

I think they should go the Disney World route and price everyone out. People get really mad when Disney raises their prices, but they still end up going to the parks and enjoying themselves... they just don't go quite as often.

Those greedy sons of bitches keep making everything more expensive...I can't wait to go back. It's a problem.

Yeah, sorry this has nothing to do with commissions, which are rad by the way, but Disney World is always packed no matter what. There was a magical week once...so long ago, I went on the Tower of Terror three times in less than an hour. Never happened again.

JaimieT

MattyWeaves said:

JaimieT said:

I think they should go the Disney World route and price everyone out. People get really mad when Disney raises their prices, but they still end up going to the parks and enjoying themselves... they just don't go quite as often.

Those greedy sons of bitches keep making everything more expensive...I can't wait to go back. It's a problem.

Yeah, sorry this has nothing to do with commissions, which are rad by the way, but Disney World is always packed no matter what. There was a magical week once...so long ago, I went on the Tower of Terror three times in less than an hour. Never happened again.

No, Disney isn't packed during those nights they shut the park down at 10pm and let people buy $150 tickets to have the park practically to themselves for 3 hours.

People got pissed when that rolled out. But otherwise, Disney doesn't raise their ticket prices more than a few dollars a year. Also recently they've gotten very tricksey about how they staff rides to save money on overhead during non-peak times. So you could be in the park in a less crowded day and still wait on rides as much as if you weren't.

I'm sure even now you could hit Tower of Terror 3 times in an hour. Well not NOW-now, because Toy Story land opened. But give it 3 months, go right before the Fantasmic show or the Star Wars fireworks... I did it in May 2015 and still got good seats for Fantasmic.

Hollywood Studios was such an empty park in recent years. Galaxy's Edge and Toy Story will get it hopping.