Sharp Objects Ep. 3 - "Fix"

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Comments

  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I thought the stuff in the rehab facility happened very close to the "current" timeline. I speculate that maybe the relapse and horrific thing that happened are what her editor has been referring to as her present rough patch. Did the scars on the word "FIX" seem like they were a bit fresher than the rest? I thought I saw some fresh lividity to them. Cecily thinks I'm crazy, anyone else confirm?
  • I thought the stuff in the rehab facility happened very close to the "current" timeline. I speculate that maybe the relapse and horrific thing that happened are what her editor has been referring to as her present rough patch. Did the scars on the word "FIX" seem like they were a bit fresher than the rest? I thought I saw some fresh lividity to them. Cecily thinks I'm crazy, anyone else confirm?
    It looks like "Fix" is not on her arm before she cuts in the car prior to committing herself, and then at the very end, we see a flashback to the scene of it freshly cut with the razor blade. I wonder if this is supposed to have a double meaning, as she's getting her last "fix" in, while also trying to help herself.

    Could also be that she traces it in the bathroom scene with the bolt. It looks like she's making an X at least.
  • JaimieT said:
    KingKobra said:
    I was talking to a friend and recommended this show. They asked me how was it, I told them excellent, but dark. They mentioned Leftovers, I said Leftovers is heavy, this show is DARK. This episode thus far made me feel the saddest so far. Seeing paths of destruction everywhere and people keeping everything internal until it explodes out in various ways. 

    I wondered about this during the moment when Camille was talking to iPod girl. It's stuff I never see on TV and I was wondering how people who have had good families/lives would see Camille answering, "Does it get better? with "You survive" or whatever it was. So many shows get away with absolute schlock when trying to depict this sort of thing. Which is why I can't watch so many shows, I guess. (Not that (1) this is a pain contest, (2) your reaction is representative of the world or (3) I'm so edgy lol. I just like to get out of my head and I do a lot of idle wondering.)
    Yeah, I’m not sure about the good families bit ;) I’m just careful of what I recommend to certain people and try to give them a heads up before diving in. I’ve seen and witnessed the internalizing of pain/suffering and have seen it end up like what was witnessed on the episode. It will be interesting to see people’s different tales based upon how they grew up or how they are living now. 
    JaimieT
  • edited July 2018
    @A_Ron_Hubbard, I'm so grateful you guys are covering Sharp Objects, specifically with your family experience. While it's interesting listening to some of the general coverage, having grown up with a Narcissist-Borderline Southern mother like Adora, I am constantly waiting for podcasters coming from non-Borderline families to misunderstand how realistic she is or complain that Camille doesn't respond like they would. It's a relief to tune into your coverage and know you will get it.

    This episode in particular went a long way to showing how each family member in orbit around an NPD suffers, whether they're the accomplice spouse, the favored child, or the scapegoat child; that there is no end date or sacred space they won't show out in (her job, the hospital, a funeral...); and that there is nothing they won't make about themselves or your fault, including accidentally hurting themselves while upset. It also showed how each of those family members--including Alan, for the first time--has hidden personalities and compartmentalized rage. Alan tries to leverage his sympathy and charm to get into his wife's bed, but she shuts him down, saying, "I'm sure that won't be necessary." He has to go back to being the Ken doll, endlessly spinning a soundtrack for her life-size doll house and screaming impotently into his fist. I recognized the fast drive of rage screaming from Camille and the instinct to be savage from Amma, but Amma seems well on her way to surpassing Adora as she is quite aware of her own manipulation of others. Some children learn to survive NPD parents, while others observe how their world revolves around them, covet it, and become that. 

    Lastly, the flashback structure around Camille's inpatient experience was incredibly effective. By the time she found Alice, I felt raw and sympathetic to both of their states of mind. A difficult and consuming episode overall.
    ghm3JaimieTKingKobratelephoneofmadnessroxbombersMichelleThe_Dsarahtatuga
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    This episode certainly gives off more vibes that there's some sort of town conspiracy regarding these murders. I feel like everyone in the town is winking at each other behind Camille and the detectives backs.


  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    A couple of times in the previous podcasts Jim alluded to Camille freaking out at her sisters funeral as the thing that her mom has been harping on all these years as the event that Camille did to sully or embarrass the family. I don't. I think whatever it is, it is much bigger and perhaps darker than Camille acting out at a funeral.

    I still say that episode 1 and 2 laid a lot of tracks for Camille perhaps being the victim some sort of sexual abuse by the boys in the town, as well as Amma perhaps being her biological child. Although the latter is based mostly on the gas station scene in episode 2, and I'm less convinced now. I could definitely see her mom being mortified by her teenage daughter getting knocked up and not even caring that it was a by-product of sexual assault.

    I'm curious but also dreading them going back to the creepy ass porn shack in the woods for more flashbacks.
    sarahtatuga
  • It's hard to say if there is anything big behind Camille's "embarrassment" of her mother, because it could literally be anything she feels takes attention off of her and puts it onto Camille. It might not even be a single thing, but Camille's history of "embarrassing her mother" by acting out at the funeral, presumably being assaulted in the woods, cutting, suicidal tendencies, institutionalization, having a job with a byline, etc. 
    sarahtatuga
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited July 2018
    I'm just now reading through some of the comments here, and I'm in the camp that the rehab/mental hospital scenes happened in the very recent past. Everything looks contemporary, as far as the phones and devices they were using. And it makes sense that this would trigger her spiral into the deep alcoholic state she's in now.

    I guess that we're supposed to think that she feels somewhat responsible for telling Alice that her family issues "never get better" and the only thing you can do is "survive" right before Alice took her own life? 
    Camille is not responsible at all, obviously (to me), but I don't know how I personally feel about that answer to someone who is struggling with a mental illness like self harm. On one hand you can appreciate the honesty and perhaps wisdom that Camille has telling her to survive rather than expect her family situation to change. On the other hand, not everyone wants to just "survive" in life. I also am uneducated on if self harm such as "cutting" is at all tied to suicide, and from Camille's perspective she perhaps didn't think that suicidal thoughts was something that Alice was struggling with since maybe that isn't something Camille has struggled with.
    sarahtatuga
  • Is it just my deranged mind, or was their some weird sexual tension between Camille and Amma in that drunken bedroom scene? I mean, it seemed to mostly come from Amma, and was very strange.
    rkcrawf
  • hitmy said:
    Is it just my deranged mind, or was their some weird sexual tension between Camille and Amma in that drunken bedroom scene? I mean, it seemed to mostly come from Amma, and was very strange.
    Definitely got that vibe as well.
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    hitmy said:
    Is it just my deranged mind, or was their some weird sexual tension between Camille and Amma in that drunken bedroom scene? I mean, it seemed to mostly come from Amma, and was very strange.
    You aren't the only one. I thought it was all coming from Amma and her drunken weirdness trying to mess with Camille rather than some genuine sexual tension, but it still made me uncomfortable. I wouldn't be surprised if they had done that on purpose to make the scene more uncomfortable and tense. 
  • MichelleMichelle California
    Re: that scene, I feel like that's probably one of the things Amma does to get her way with people or to get them to do what she wants, so her trying it on Camille, in her drunken state, was no surprise despite the fact that she is her sister.  To her, Camille is just another person who Amma can 'get something from', or to coerce her to do what she asks somehow, to use them in that way.

    The more shit I see Amma pull, the more suspicious I become of her.  Something's not right with that girl.
    All the Chickenssarahtatuga
  • The slender man case that you keep referring too did not end in murder. The victim survived. Does not make it much better but got to correct the record. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slender_Man_stabbing Also their is a pretty good HBO Doc on the case.

    rkcrawfFreiberg
  • kingbee67 said:
    Checkov’s Draino on the cart, knew someone was gonna use that. 
    I'm an RN in an emergency department, and one of my coworkers told me about a patient who drank drano and then changed his mind about killing himself.  She said it was one of the worst things she's ever seen and there was nothing we could do for him. 
  • I think the mother is too obviously controlling and quashing the investigation to actually be the killer.  Whether she knows or who has a good idea who it is is another story.
  • I'm leaning towards Amma as the killer.  It's early enough in the season that they can put some red herrings out there to make us forget about Amma, and then bring it back around to her in the finale.  They did lean pretty hard on hèr sociopathic tendencies though, so I can also see her being too obvious at this point.
    sarahtatuga
  • edited July 2018
    @A_Ron_Hubbard, I'm so grateful you guys are covering Sharp Objects, specifically with your family experience. While it's interesting listening to some of the general coverage, having grown up with a Narcissist-Borderline Southern mother like Adora, I am constantly waiting for podcasters coming from non-Borderline families to misunderstand how realistic she is or complain that Camille doesn't respond like they would. It's a relief to tune into your coverage and know you will get it.

    This episode in particular went a long way to showing how each family member in orbit around an NPD suffers, whether they're the accomplice spouse, the favored child, or the scapegoat child; that there is no end date or sacred space they won't show out in (her job, the hospital, a funeral...); and that there is nothing they won't make about themselves or your fault, including accidentally hurting themselves while upset. 
    I wholeheartedly agree, having grown up with a "Narcissist-Borderline Southern mother" myself, (although mine's not as savage as Adora, thank god).  Although @A_Ron_Hubbard, I think you might've hit the nail on the head about the Munchausen by proxy comment you made after the first or second episode (I forget).  In the "Fix" podcast, you asked who Adora was referring to when she says to Chief Vickery, "with Marian, it seems like it's personal."  Marian was Adora's daughter (and Camille's sister) who died, and I think that Adora is, once again, making everything about herself, and saying that first, Marian died, and now, these two other girls who Adora knew (especially Ann) are dead.  It feels "personal" because it feeds Adora's narcissistic martyrdom.  Adora feels that the deaths of these three girls are her personal emotional burden to bear, and are a personal attack on her, because that's what fucked up narcissistic martyrs do.

    But I also think that Munchausen by proxy would feed Adora's narcissistic martyr complex, which is why I suspect Adora may have secretly made Marian sick (poisoned her) until she died (like @A_Ron_Hubbard mentioned early on).  It seems like she may have had access to the other girls (especially Ann, since she was her tutor) to poison them too, but I don't think it's ever been mentioned that those girls were sick before they were found dead.  Perhaps she killed them too, but since those girls weren't living with her, she did it via a quicker method. 

    And given the totally psychotic, aggro behavior of Amma in this episode, part of me thinks Adora may have convinced/groomed Amma to make Natalie and Ann "available" to Adora, and that Amma is following her mother's well-worn footsteps into turning these murders into their own personal tragedies, even though they may have created those tragedies.  It doesn't all line up, but there's something fucky going on with Adora and Amma, unquestionably.

    Also, something horrible definitely happened to Camille in Chekhov's wood shack.  And while it may have been horrible for Camille, Adora probably victim-blamed Camille into believing that whatever happened was Camille's fault.  Those Southern narcissistic martyr mothers are as emotionally abusive and gaslighty as it gets.
    duncanpowers
  • amhatchamhatch Wisco
    edited July 2018
    So, my two cents from the commentary post-podcast about alcoholism and how Camille functions (and PS I love how sheltered y'all are from the worst parts of this disease; reminds me not everyone has the same traumas as I do).

    I come from a long paternal line of alcoholism. My great grandfather died in a two room shack, one filled with empty wine bottles. My grandfather died at 56 due to complications of alcoholism. My father was diagnosed with cirrhosis at 33 and did not stop drinking. He is now 57, jobless, living rent free in a studio apartment that my uncle owns, and subsists on begging from relatives and friends, and a very tiny amount of government benefits. 

    I was his only constant in life, the only one of his four children to always answer phone calls, pay his bills, take him to appointments, write to him in jail, and clean up his messes. I only recently (this past month) cut him off after a series of repeatedly insane accusations brought on by hallucinations and paranoia in which he imagined I was plotting with the rest of the family against him. I'm currently on a journey to heal, and have made the choice to cut him off completely until he gets help (he won't; he will die alone and I will be devastated. The best I can do is steel myself). 

    That being said, yes, hallucinating while drinking is absolutely something that happens to chronic alcoholics. They hear voices, imagine people who aren't there, become paranoid. It is much like schizophrenia. They lose many bodily functions, not just "toilet" related. They drool, sway, cannot focus, see double, or halo effects. Or so has been my experience. 

    And it is also possible to function for a long time with no real outward signs physically, for those who think Camille is too "beautiful" to be that bad of an alcoholic. My dad's looks did not start to go until his early 40's, despite near daily drinking (outside of the occasional jail sentence when he was dry). He remained very handsome and charming; the life of the party. 

    He has recently graduated to drinking the cheapest 1/5 of whiskey you can get per day, straight (much like Camille and her vodka). It tastes horrendous. It's probably not even really whiskey, and his delusions are ramping up. So, yeah...

    IDK. This has been Oversharing Corner. LOL
    majjam0770telephoneofmadnessJaimieTUnderwoodKingKobraroxbombershypergenesbduncanpowersThe_D
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    Unless I'm completely forgetting about a particularly awful scene, I think people are really overstating Amma's sociopathic tendencies. Even though the actor looks about 20, the character is supposed to be 15. 15 is just about the toughest, most confusing point in one's life and nothing she's done is really all that unusual. She has an extremely toxic overprotecting mother and she plays into that because teenagers like attention. She's obviously jealous of Camille and the attention that she's taking from Amma. She tried to connect with Camille and Camille shot her down. Then she sees Camille out with some dude. It's pretty normal for a teenager to lash out over that, especially if she's been drinking. It's also pretty normal for her to be attracted to an older guy and think he's checking her out at parties. We also have no idea what was going on at the pig farm. Remember, her family owns the farm and for all we know, she regularly checks things out or may even have a part-time job there.
    JaimieThypergenesb
  • @A_Ron_Hubbard, I'm so grateful you guys are covering Sharp Objects, specifically with your family experience. While it's interesting listening to some of the general coverage, having grown up with a Narcissist-Borderline Southern mother like Adora, I am constantly waiting for podcasters coming from non-Borderline families to misunderstand how realistic she is or complain that Camille doesn't respond like they would. It's a relief to tune into your coverage and know you will get it.

    I was raised by my single mother (narcissist), beautiful and haunted by welcomed tragedy much like Adora, and spent a lot of time with my aunt (psychopath- textbook charmer) and I can tell you the shades of push/pull love you/hate you and gaslighting while loving and hating someone all at once are all too real. This is why I love these new dark genres that are emerging. It IS so real and based in truth. Make me feel sane.

    Good on you for surviving with an awareness. 
    sarahtatugaJaimieThypergenesbduncanpowers
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited July 2018
    There's a good article here about alcohol abuse and psychosis.  At least some of it seems to be found in far down the road alcoholics.  


    Freiberg
  • @A_Ron_Hubbard @Jim heard on the podcast you were asking what audio setup the setup the stepdad had. I have seen similar in high end setups (DACs, Amps, etc) quick search and it sends to be a system “worth” about 80K:

    http://www.vulture.com/article/sharp-objects-home-stereo-system.html

    A rich audiophilie set up it is for sure. 
    cdrive
  • edited July 2018
    amhatch said:

    I come from a long paternal line of alcoholism.

    ...

    That being said, yes, hallucinating while drinking is absolutely something that happens to chronic alcoholics. They hear voices, imagine people who aren't there, become paranoid. It is much like schizophrenia. They lose many bodily functions, not just "toilet" related. They drool, sway, cannot focus, see double, or halo effects. Or so has been my experience.

    Well, I’m not really sure how to begin.  I’ve been a Club member for years but this is my first time in the forums.  But something about this show, about how it depicts addiction and self harm and mental health issues hit too close to home for me to stay away.  And this seems like a relatively small discussion on an otherwise massive board and seemed like a good place to dip my toes in and test the water.

    I also come from a long line of alcoholics and mentally ill family, as does my wife.  Of our sons four grandparents two have died directly from alcohol, with many other family members also dead or addicted.  I too have had problems with addiction, and while I probably didn’t meet clinical criteria for alcoholism I was certainly headed that direction until my father took his own life.  It was a reality check that caused me to immediately change my behavior and coping strategies and I can now proudly say I no longer drink and haven’t in several years.

    My turn in Overshare Corner finished I wanted to add to the discussion about what chronic alcoholism can be like.  I have also witnessed the paranoia, hallucinations and delusions, and schizophrenic like symptoms in not only my father and late mother-in-law, but in many others.  These symptoms tend to occur late into ones alcoholism and, in my experience, tend to be amplifications of pre-existing mental health issues.  My father had Anti-Social Personality Disorder and was probably a Narcissist also and I recognize aspects of both of these disorders in this series.  Camille leaning towards ASPD (although far from diagnosable, in my non-professional opinion) and Adora well within diagnosable Narcism.  Amma, it seems, is beginning to show signs of mental health issues as well, and it’s usually in the teens and early twenties when these problems fully emerge.

    I guess I don’t have much to add beyond saying that this show is doing a remarkable job of portraying addiction and mental illness.  It isn’t afraid to get ugly and show what it’s really like, how scary it can be and how weak and helpless they can make you feel, how they can intertwine and ratchet each other up again and again.  I’m really enjoying Sharp Objects and can’t wait to read the book once the show is done, but I must say the actual mystery is far less interesting to me than the realistic portrayal of the characters.

    sarahtatugahitmyJaimieTtelephoneofmadnessduncanpowersamhatch
  • Whoops, in my haste to overshare I forgot a sort of tangentially relevant detail: I’m a native of Waukesha, WI, the town where the Slenderman stabbing took place.  I probably don’t have any details that aren’t public knowledge but I’d be happy to share a local take on the events as someone who, in my own youth, played in the same park and woods where the crime occurred.  I haven’t lived in Waukesha in years, although I was born and raised there which is exactly why I moved away, but I live in the next town over and my mother is still there (I’m actually going to meet her for dinner in a few minutes, which is what reminded me).  Anyway, mental illness and those caught up in the wake of a sociopath have touched my hometown, and might be manifesting in Amma and her friends.  I’m not calling her the killer, but there’s a darkness in her that shouldn’t be ignored.
    JaimieThitmysarahtatuga
  • edited July 2018
    Hunkulese said:
    Unless I'm completely forgetting about a particularly awful scene, I think people are really overstating Amma's sociopathic tendencies. Even though the actor looks about 20, the character is supposed to be 15. 15 is just about the toughest, most confusing point in one's life and nothing she's done is really all that unusual. She has an extremely toxic overprotecting mother and she plays into that because teenagers like attention. She's obviously jealous of Camille and the attention that she's taking from Amma. She tried to connect with Camille and Camille shot her down. Then she sees Camille out with some dude. It's pretty normal for a teenager to lash out over that, especially if she's been drinking. It's also pretty normal for her to be attracted to an older guy and think he's checking her out at parties. We also have no idea what was going on at the pig farm. Remember, her family owns the farm and for all we know, she regularly checks things out or may even have a part-time job there.

    The scene where she sees Camille with the detective isn't suspicious at all to me, it's probably the most normal teenage thing she's done in this show. I also think the scene at the pig farm is likely a red herring, although that knowing look she gave while closing the door was kinda creepy. 

    The fucked up thing about Amma is basically everything else. She seems quick to envy and is extremely manipulative, which is my basis for a motive per my earlier comment, she envies those like Natalie that gets to actually be themselves. 

    The conversations with Camille were the suspicious parts this episode, not the scene with the detective. She basically gloated to Camille that her friends love her and she can get them to do anything for her. It wasn't even a passing comment, she went on about. Then the comments about John Keene are somewhat telling; his girlfriend is clearly a bitch because it's not her, and she may not actually want him, but she most definitely wants him to want her, which may be enough for someone like her.

    To me these scenes with Camille strongly suggest Amma's ability and and willingness to say, manipulate an older guy into doing fucked up things for her, like maybe even strangle girls she envies and/or doesn't have influence over.
    JaimieThypergenesb
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    edited July 2018
    ghm3 said:
    Hunkulese said:
    Unless I'm completely forgetting about a particularly awful scene, I think people are really overstating Amma's sociopathic tendencies. Even though the actor looks about 20, the character is supposed to be 15. 15 is just about the toughest, most confusing point in one's life and nothing she's done is really all that unusual. She has an extremely toxic overprotecting mother and she plays into that because teenagers like attention. She's obviously jealous of Camille and the attention that she's taking from Amma. She tried to connect with Camille and Camille shot her down. Then she sees Camille out with some dude. It's pretty normal for a teenager to lash out over that, especially if she's been drinking. It's also pretty normal for her to be attracted to an older guy and think he's checking her out at parties. We also have no idea what was going on at the pig farm. Remember, her family owns the farm and for all we know, she regularly checks things out or may even have a part-time job there.

    The scene where she sees Camille with the detective isn't suspicious at all to me, it's probably the most normal teenage thing she's done in this show. I also think the scene at the pig farm is likely a red herring, although that knowing look she gave while closing the door was kinda creepy. 

    The fucked up thing about Amma is basically everything else. She seems quick to envy and is extremely manipulative, which is my basis for a motive per my earlier comment, she envies those like Natalie that gets to actually be themselves. 

    The conversations with Camille were the suspicious parts this episode, not the scene with the detective. She basically gloated to Camille that her friends love her and she can get them to do anything for her. It wasn't even a passing comment, she went on about. Then the comments about John Keene are somewhat telling; his girlfriend is clearly a bitch because it's not her, and she may not actually want him, but she most definitely wants him to want her, which may be enough for someone like her.

    To me these scenes with Camille strongly suggest Amma's ability and and willingness to say, manipulate an older guy into doing fucked up things for her, like maybe even strangle girls she envies and/or doesn't have influence over.
    But again, none of those things are all that out of line for a 15-year-old girl beside everything being turned up a couple notches because it's a TV show.

    Yeah, she can be a bitchy, jealous, manipulative teenage girl. Calling her a sociopath is a pretty big stretch.
  • A female is most definitely the killer, given how hard they hit the 'it's got to be a guy' nail on the head. And there are plenty of viable candidates in this town. I'm putting my money on Adora this week, but who knows what they will reveal next week. This show is a hard watch (I've got plenty of family from the aforementioned club to make it close to home), but I'm definitely curious to see how this unravels, and curious to see what Zepplin they'll trot out next.
  • It’s weird, I’m having little to no fun speculating about who the killer is with the internet because I know the answers are out there.
    My wife and I are actually just enjoying (if that’s the proper word for it in this case) the look into the relationships of these characters, and the murder almost seems like a sub-plot that could almost be omitted. 
    DoubleA_RonFreibergJaimieT
  • Hunkulese said:
    ghm3 said:
    Hunkulese said:
    Unless I'm completely forgetting about a particularly awful scene, I think people are really overstating Amma's sociopathic tendencies. Even though the actor looks about 20, the character is supposed to be 15. 15 is just about the toughest, most confusing point in one's life and nothing she's done is really all that unusual. She has an extremely toxic overprotecting mother and she plays into that because teenagers like attention. She's obviously jealous of Camille and the attention that she's taking from Amma. She tried to connect with Camille and Camille shot her down. Then she sees Camille out with some dude. It's pretty normal for a teenager to lash out over that, especially if she's been drinking. It's also pretty normal for her to be attracted to an older guy and think he's checking her out at parties. We also have no idea what was going on at the pig farm. Remember, her family owns the farm and for all we know, she regularly checks things out or may even have a part-time job there.

    The scene where she sees Camille with the detective isn't suspicious at all to me, it's probably the most normal teenage thing she's done in this show. I also think the scene at the pig farm is likely a red herring, although that knowing look she gave while closing the door was kinda creepy. 

    The fucked up thing about Amma is basically everything else. She seems quick to envy and is extremely manipulative, which is my basis for a motive per my earlier comment, she envies those like Natalie that gets to actually be themselves. 

    The conversations with Camille were the suspicious parts this episode, not the scene with the detective. She basically gloated to Camille that her friends love her and she can get them to do anything for her. It wasn't even a passing comment, she went on about. Then the comments about John Keene are somewhat telling; his girlfriend is clearly a bitch because it's not her, and she may not actually want him, but she most definitely wants him to want her, which may be enough for someone like her.

    To me these scenes with Camille strongly suggest Amma's ability and and willingness to say, manipulate an older guy into doing fucked up things for her, like maybe even strangle girls she envies and/or doesn't have influence over.
    But again, none of those things are all that out of line for a 15-year-old girl beside everything being turned up a couple notches because it's a TV show.

    Yeah, she can be a bitchy, jealous, manipulative teenage girl. Calling her a sociopath is a pretty big stretch.

    That's one of the interesting things about the show, she may very well not have anything to do with anything and she can be taken at that face value where her narcissistic manipulative tendencies are just the result of her nightmare upbringing but she hasn't taken anything to an extreme yet. Or if she actually is involved, the rationale for not seeing it is again exactly as you said, everyone supposedly just thinking she was a normal teenager. 

    I think her behavior is way outside normal, though not for her upbringing, but I don't think seeing her as a sociopath is a stretch at all never mind a big one, even if she had nothing to do with the murders. The majority of sociopaths aren't violent, they learn to imitate emotions and hide in plain sight, and sometimes even go on to create Facebook. 

    But to me her culpability is the most plausible theory so far as it has the only motive I can think of for any of the murders. That can obviously change but to me that makes it the most likely scenario so far.
    Freiberg
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Yeah, Amma is indistinguishable to me from a dangerous teenager and a teenager who talks a big talk (but has no gramba). I've wanted to believe Amma is mostly innocent, but I wasn't sure why. UNTIL I heard Cecily's phrasing of another situation: what does it add if Amma is guilty? I know it adds some good things, but it takes away from a growing pattern of Camille trying to save abused children before it's too late, and I think that must be in the top 5 most important themes in the show.
    BrandonTheBardgroovydooley
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