Castle Rock (spoiler thread)

akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
Ok. I'm liking this show although it's not my genre AT ALL. I'm buying into some of the more implausible spooky stuff like how Melanie Lynskey is an empath. But I slipped out of it a little at the end of episode 3 when she goes upstairs with a knife instead of leaving when she thinks she hears someone. All that stalking around with the knife... I just can't get with it. It seems hokey to me. 
Elisakingbee67
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Comments

  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited July 28
    I'm surprised they showed as much of their hand as they did in the first 3 episodes. I said the same thing to my wife when she picked up the knife instead of running outside to call the police.

    At this point, I'm guessing that Molly took over Henry and pushed his dad over the cliffs through him and that's why Henry doesn't remember what happened. I assume she did this because his dad was doing bad things to him or her or someone else.

    I can't figure why the mystery "devil" kid was told to ask for Henry if the warden was so dead set on keeping him down there. 
    Elisa
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited July 28
    I'm loving all of the references in the show. I wish someone would just tell Molly that she has The SHININ'..
    gguenotElisa
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    I'm loving all of the references in the show. I wish someone would just tell Melanie that she has The SHININ'..
    ooh, I am not a Stephen King person. Can you elaborate?
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    I'm loving all of the references in the show. I wish someone would just tell Melanie that she has The SHININ'..
    ooh, I am not a Stephen King person. Can you elaborate?
    The psychic abilities Molly has seem similar to the powers that Danny Torrance has in The Shining. Those abilities are called the Shining or Shine. She just needs a kindly older gentleman to come explain it to her.

    Here's the scene of it being explained to Danny.

    akritenbrinkKingKobraElisaJovial_Falcon
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    So, question. When they were in the TV studio and she started talking about Deaver's thoughts- Did he do that on purpose somehow or was she just picking up what he was thinking about?
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    It seems like she can't help it or control it on a concious level. It's worse around him... perhaps because he also has the shining.
    akritenbrinkElisa
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    Ah cool, thanks for explaining. I'm liking her portrayal thus far (other than the knife thing, which isn't the actress's fault). She seems both relatable and kinda evil at the same time haha.
  • DeeDee Adelaide

    I can't figure why the mystery "devil" kid was told to ask for Henry if the warden was so dead set on keeping him down there. 
    I wondered that too. 
  • Dee said:

    I can't figure why the mystery "devil" kid was told to ask for Henry if the warden was so dead set on keeping him down there. 
    I wondered that too. 
    In The Shining, The Overlook tapped into his dad’s weaknesses to try and get Danny because he had the shine. I wonder if the devil kid is using Henry to get to Molly for some reason?

    Also, is the actor who plays Molly’s sister the same as the police officer in Fargo?
    ElisaJovial_Falcon
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited July 29
    @gguenot But what @All the Chickens and I don’t get is if Lacy thought he had trapped the devil and then kept him locked up all that time, why would he then tell the kid to ask for Henry Deaver (who could presumably get him out)? 

    And yes, that was Alison Tolman as Melanie Lynskey’s sister. It took me a while of “who isssss that” to figure it out. 

    Edit: I also did not realise until I saw the end credits that the pastor is Ken from Mad Men. 
    Elisa
  • @Dee, yea that’s a good point. Did we hear Lacy say he doesn’t want him to escape? Or was Pangborn telling the warden that at the bar. Maybe we’ll find out he was trying to protect the kid from the outside? But once he decided he was going to kill him self he needed someone to continue protecting? I’m not sure 
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited July 29
    Do we think the Devil kid is consciously wanting to hurt people, or it's just something that happens around him?

    He seemed ok with his captivity and a bit afraid of people. He warned the guy not to touch him, and it seemed more of a sincere plea rather than a threat. He did screw with that one security guard though. I'm leaning towards something being inside of him that he can't control.

    I could see something along the lines of the ancient Scapegoat practice where the town put all of their "sins"and bad juju inside of the kid. But it doesn't seem like anyone else was in on it and I don't know why him residing in the prison would make al the bad things stop happening.

     Also that story being told about the town showed that this craziness in the town has been going on at least since the previous warden was a child, if not long before. And the devil child seems to have aged since the warden first captured him when the warden was a grown man (since devil child is no longer a child, but a devil 20-something).
    So whatever has been going on in the town seems to predate this particular physical form of the devil child.
    DeeElisa
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    gguenot said:
    @Dee, yea that’s a good point. Did we hear Lacy say he doesn’t want him to escape? Or was Pangborn telling the warden that at the bar. Maybe we’ll find out he was trying to protect the kid from the outside? But once he decided he was going to kill him self he needed someone to continue protecting? I’m not sure 
    Lacy wrote a letter* to Pangborn, which is how Pangborn had the info to give to the new warden.

    *I think. I have a really terrible memory so someone correct me if I’m wrong. 
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    Dee said:

    I can't figure why the mystery "devil" kid was told to ask for Henry if the warden was so dead set on keeping him down there. 
    I wondered that too. 
    I assumed there's something we don't know yet that connects the "devil" child to Deaver's disappearance and his dad's fall in the woods.
    ElisaJovial_Falcon
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    gguenot said:
    @Dee, yea that’s a good point. Did we hear Lacy say he doesn’t want him to escape? Or was Pangborn telling the warden that at the bar. Maybe we’ll find out he was trying to protect the kid from the outside? But once he decided he was going to kill him self he needed someone to continue protecting? I’m not sure 
    We mostly have to go by what Pangborn says that Warden Lacy told him, which was this: 

    “That night, he told me he had finally figured out what was wrong with Castle Rock.
    He said he had always thought the devil was just a metaphor, but now he knew the Devil was a boy, and old Dale said he’d caught ‘em, had locked the Devil in a box.”

    Warden Lacy's letter to Pangborn said this:

    “God told me where to find him, how his prison should be built, how to put an end to all the horrors we’ve seen in this town"


    He very much implies in the letter to Pangborn that the kid (or whatever is inside him) is responsible for the horrors in the town, which aligns with what Pangborn says that Lacy told him all those years ago.

    We can't know for sure, although even the devil kid seems to think that shit is about to go down now that he's out of the cage. He asked Henry "has it started?" which is pretty damn ominous and perhaps why he seemingly ok which just hanging in a dark hole despite having obvious powers that kill a man instantly when he touches him or making someone hallucinate and go temporarily insane.
    DeeElisa
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    Plot twist: Warden Lacy heard that Henry is an infamously shitty defense lawyer, so he knew Henry getting involved would either get devil child thrown into an even deeper and darker hole or be executed.
    BrandonTheBard
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    Is Pangborn a bad guy? Why would he just be like "OK" when Lacy told him he had found a boy and put him in a box? Or did he think he was speaking metaphorically? 

    I feel like I have so many questions since this is not my genre. I don't know how much of this stuff is going to turn out to be literal in-universe. Like is the boy really the devil? :P 
  • MattyWeavesMattyWeaves Mid-State New York
    Just finished episode 3 and I'm totally all in. There's a lot to process right now, but my immediate thought is, King loves Good vs Evil and I think that's where this is all going.

    I just don't know who is playing who on the chess board yet.
    All the ChickensElisa
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    @akritenbrink creepy Stephen King small town logic dictates that when you're friend says that he's captured the devil in the form of a little boy and locked him in a cage.... you just go with it.

    Seriously though, I think Pangborn indicated that he was dubious and freaked out by it at first, but then convinced when all of the dark events in the town stopped happening as soon as the kid was captured and locked away.

    Of course they don't make it very clear how often school mascots were jumping off the roof of the school during football games. And it's not completely clear what Pangborn means by it all just stopping since then. Like, is everyone just dying of old age now, there are no strange crimes, etc.?
    akritenbrinkElisa
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    I just ran by this article discussing the show and it has quotes from the showrunners. We're definitely meant to be questioning if the devil child is good or evil, and if Pangborn/Lacy are good or evil. That seems to be a central theme in the mystery.

    https://www.inverse.com/article/47412-castle-rock-spoilers-who-is-the-man-in-cell-block-f-bill-skarsgard

    From the article:

    In a conversation with Inverse, co-showrunner Dustin Thomason implied that the viewer ought to simultaneously feel sympathy and fear towards the Kid, saying, “Part of the early thrust of the season we’re presenting our characters and the audience with the inexplicable discovery of this kid in the bowels of Shawshank and leading the audience to draw their own conclusions about Bill’s character and whether he’s a force for good or evil. Whether he’s a victim, whether he’s a monster.”

    Similarly, co-showrunner Sam Shaw said the same applies to Lacy’s character. He added: “His motivations for what part he has played in this clusterfuck is going to continue to be a question that we search for answers to.”

    Good and evil often sound like a clear-cut binary, but it’s also one often filtered through a subjective lens. Lacy and Pangborn claim they’re the good guys, but what if they’re not?

    akritenbrinkElisa
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Is Pangborn a bad guy? Why would he just be like "OK" when Lacy told him he had found a boy and put him in a box? Or did he think he was speaking metaphorically? 

    I feel like I have so many questions since this is not my genre. I don't know how much of this stuff is going to turn out to be literal in-universe. Like is the boy really the devil? :P 
    That’s a good question, because in King’s novels he is most definitely one of the good guys. I feel like the casting of Scott Glenn (who I recognise is a good actor but I who I don’t like to watch) makes his character more murky and less overtly a white knight. 
    All the ChickensakritenbrinkElisa
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    I mean ... Lacy seems fairly evil. He locked a child in a basement of a prison for God knows how long. But then again... If the child is literally the devil... IDK
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    I don’t think Lacy is evil - he locks up what he thinks is the source of evil in the town, but he’s still weirdly decent to the kid, visiting him and whatnot. And there are a couple of references to him being a good warden who believed in rehabilitation rather than punishment. 
    akritenbrink
  • akritenbrinkakritenbrink Lynnwood, WA (Seattle area)
    Dee said:
    I don’t think Lacy is evil - he locks up what he thinks is the source of evil in the town, but he’s still weirdly decent to the kid, visiting him and whatnot. And there are a couple of references to him being a good warden who believed in rehabilitation rather than punishment. 
    And he made his wife breakfast before killing himself. 
    DeeAll the Chickens
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    And he made his blind wife breakfast before killing himself.  That's really cruel.
    akritenbrink
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    All I’m saying we need more The Stand references or Easter eggs. Why? Because that’s my favorite book. 
    gguenotElisa
  • kingbee67 said:
    All I’m saying we need more The Stand references or Easter eggs. Why? Because that’s my favorite book. 
    I’m waiting for a Man in Black or Russel Faraday newspaper clipping in the jail office or “Baby can you dig your man” to come on the radio 
    kingbee67Elisa
  • MattyWeavesMattyWeaves Mid-State New York
    I'm officially convinced "Nick" is the Devil. On the television in Henry's moms house was an episode of the Twilight Zone.

    The episode is about a man locked in a cell and he convinces a random guy he is innocent. The guy eventually let's him out, and the man is revealed to be The Devil. 

    I actually watched it a month or so ago and it's a really good episode.
    kingbee67akritenbrinkElisa
  • I'm officially convinced "Nick" is the Devil. On the television in Henry's moms house was an episode of the Twilight Zone.

    The episode is about a man locked in a cell and he convinces a random guy he is innocent. The guy eventually let's him out, and the man is revealed to be The Devil. 

    I actually watched it a month or so ago and it's a really good episode.
    What’s the episode name?
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    I'm officially convinced "Nick" is the Devil. On the television in Henry's moms house was an episode of the Twilight Zone.

    The episode is about a man locked in a cell and he convinces a random guy he is innocent. The guy eventually let's him out, and the man is revealed to be The Devil. 

    I actually watched it a month or so ago and it's a really good episode.
    I’ve seen that episode it was great.
    Episode 4 was great
    The lawyer guy is getting more dickish every episode. If I was Scott Glen I would have bailed leaving that prick to walk home from the graveyard. 

    I ised to work at a lace where the mangers were telling me to smile and they always wanted fist bumps and high fives. So I see why that guard went off.
    MattyWeavesBrandonTheBard
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