Sharp Objects Ep. 4 - "Ripe" - No Book Spoilers!

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Comments

  • edited July 2018
    Michelle said:
    ghm3 said:
    -Anyone know what the deal is with that sign at the end that said "Falling" with an arrow pointing to the stop line in the road?

    My read on it is that it was to tell Camille to stop there because she is falling down a rabbit hole of anxiety in that moment. 

    On second watch I noticed that it was a younger Camille in the headlights at the end, not Amma as I had thought the first time.  I think we are closer to finding out what exactly happened with Camille when she was a teen, or maybe what we all already think happened is true and she’s worried about the same happening to Amma.  Seeing Amma’s dead body was her anxiety and worry playing with her mind.  We see in the preview for next week that Amma is alive.

    So here’s a question, for a brief moment we see a flash of the word ‘worm’ scratched into the table.  What was that relating to?  All of the other words have made sense so far.
    Unless you were talking about something else, it was certainly Amma at the very end:

    https://imgur.com/a/Gg1CZGu




  • hitmy said:
    Camilla went into shock when John mentioned Amma knew of the creepy woodshed. She immediately left to try to find Amma, who was, of course, not in her room (who was that girl watching from the bench as Camille went down the steps... young Camille?)
    This was Marian. She's showed up around the house before.
    Freiberg
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited July 2018
    I have lots of thoughts, but I will say this: HBO shouldn't have a next weeks episode preview if you're going to leave it on multiple cliffhangers like they did.

    I know no one is being forced to watch it, but I honestly didn't think it would show all that it did. I guess I'm more used to Game of Thrones pulling off the "Next week on" preview at the end of an episode with a major cliffhanger, due to the fact that the preview can focus on one of the many other storylines it's following.
    MurderbearBroRad33
  • MichelleMichelle California
    hitmy said:
    Michelle said:
    ghm3 said:
    -Anyone know what the deal is with that sign at the end that said "Falling" with an arrow pointing to the stop line in the road?

    My read on it is that it was to tell Camille to stop there because she is falling down a rabbit hole of anxiety in that moment. 

    On second watch I noticed that it was a younger Camille in the headlights at the end, not Amma as I had thought the first time.  I think we are closer to finding out what exactly happened with Camille when she was a teen, or maybe what we all already think happened is true and she’s worried about the same happening to Amma.  Seeing Amma’s dead body was her anxiety and worry playing with her mind.  We see in the preview for next week that Amma is alive.

    So here’s a question, for a brief moment we see a flash of the word ‘worm’ scratched into the table.  What was that relating to?  All of the other words have made sense so far.
    Unless you were talking about something else, it was certainly Amma at the very end:

    https://imgur.com/a/Gg1CZGu




    I still think it looks like a cheerleader – age Camille.  I mean, it could very well be Amma but I thought it was Camille.

  • That bit Adora tells Camille about chopping off her hair to spite her, Camille says, “That wasn’t me.”  That’s what a story from Natalie or Ann’s funeral. Adora seems to have conflated the dead girls with Camille, or is gaslighting her. 
    This scene was terrifying to me. The hair-cutting story wasn't mentioned at the funeral -- Ann's dad mentioned it in a private conversation with Camille. Adora tried to gaslight Camille with Ann's hair story, not realizing that Camille had already heard it from Ann's dad.
    ghm3Freibergduncanpowers
  • JaimieT said:
    Ok, I'm off to spoil myself on whether Amma died or not, because I was certain she did, but no one else thought so? I guess that spider metaphor played with my head more than I thought. 

    Edit: It's done. I now rescind myself from all Amma discussion. 
    NoooOOOOOO!

    Somebody mentioned that all of the music in the episodes is actually playing in-universe. Similarly, I think whenever we've seen flashbacks or things that aren't really there, this has always been in-universe, in Camille's mind, never as disembodied narrative. I think we've only ever seen real things happening now, and Camille's memories and mental projections happening now, and everything is happening in chronological order.

    At first I was annoyed, because it seemed like the show was using Westworld time-trickery to make Amma's death ambiguous, but assuming they aren't breaking the rules they seem to have established, Amma has to be alive by the end. Even so, I don't like the way they teased us with the Amma death scene before cutting back to Camille.
  • Also, RE: my questioning over Camille throwing the phone out the window last episode, and maybe it meant that she was done trying to "fix"... thought it was hilarious that the very first scene was her retrieving the phone from the side of the road, and getting back to her routine lol
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    Led Zeppelin cause of this show:

    CapeGabeMichelleDani_ArmindoUnderwood
  • JaimieT said:
    Ok, I'm off to spoil myself on whether Amma died or not, because I was certain she did, but no one else thought so? I guess that spider metaphor played with my head more than I thought. 

    Edit: It's done. I now rescind myself from all Amma discussion. 
    NoooOOOOOO!

    Somebody mentioned that all of the music in the episodes is actually playing in-universe. Similarly, I think whenever we've seen flashbacks or things that aren't really there, this has always been in-universe, in Camille's mind, never as disembodied narrative. I think we've only ever seen real things happening now, and Camille's memories and mental projections happening now, and everything is happening in chronological order.

    At first I was annoyed, because it seemed like the show was using Westworld time-trickery to make Amma's death ambiguous, but assuming they aren't breaking the rules they seem to have established, Amma has to be alive by the end. Even so, I don't like the way they teased us with the Amma death scene before cutting back to Camille.
    They show her alive and well in the "on the next episode" after the credits at the town picknick/event they keep alluding to.
    telephoneofmadness
  • Given all the Zeppelin, I wonder if the shed is an allusion to the alleged backmasking in Stairway to Heaven.

    "There was a little toolshed where he made us suffer, sad Satan"

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/the-10-wildest-led-zeppelin-legends-fact-checked-153103/if-you-play-stairway-to-heaven-in-reverse-you-hear-satanic-messages-154807/
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    gguenot said:
    JaimieT said:
    Ok, I'm off to spoil myself on whether Amma died or not, because I was certain she did, but no one else thought so? I guess that spider metaphor played with my head more than I thought. 

    Edit: It's done. I now rescind myself from all Amma discussion. 
    NoooOOOOOO!

    Somebody mentioned that all of the music in the episodes is actually playing in-universe. Similarly, I think whenever we've seen flashbacks or things that aren't really there, this has always been in-universe, in Camille's mind, never as disembodied narrative. I think we've only ever seen real things happening now, and Camille's memories and mental projections happening now, and everything is happening in chronological order.

    At first I was annoyed, because it seemed like the show was using Westworld time-trickery to make Amma's death ambiguous, but assuming they aren't breaking the rules they seem to have established, Amma has to be alive by the end. Even so, I don't like the way they teased us with the Amma death scene before cutting back to Camille.
    They show her alive and well in the "on the next episode" after the credits at the town picknick/event they keep alluding to.

    See, I thought that was a spoiler. I was being hush about it. But maybe even Jim/Aron can't ignore this. It's really shoddy, honestly, of HBO. They've lost some of my respect.
    rkcrawf
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    JaimieT said:
    gguenot said:
    They show her alive and well in the "on the next episode" after the credits at the town picknick/event they keep alluding to.

    See, I thought that was a spoiler. I was being hush about it. But maybe even Jim/Aron can't ignore this. It's really shoddy, honestly, of HBO. They've lost some of my respect.
    Same here. I wasn't going to say anything other than my general displeasure in the fact that the next episode preview is more revealing than you would expect or like. But, now that the cats out of the bag here :D
  •  This is far from anything new, I haven't watched next week on segments for ages for this exact reason.
    rkcrawf
  • gguenot said:

    They show her alive and well in the "on the next episode" after the credits at the town picknick/event they keep alluding to.
    Okay. I don't watch the previews.
    JaimieT
  • DoubleA_RonDoubleA_Ron San Diego
    edited July 2018
    So, when are y'all gonna touch on the popular "Ador Ahai" theory?

    Edit: Shit, wrong show.  NVM.
    MichellePangs
  • JaimieT said:
    gguenot said:
    JaimieT said:
    Ok, I'm off to spoil myself on whether Amma died or not, because I was certain she did, but no one else thought so? I guess that spider metaphor played with my head more than I thought. 

    Edit: It's done. I now rescind myself from all Amma discussion. 
    NoooOOOOOO!

    Somebody mentioned that all of the music in the episodes is actually playing in-universe. Similarly, I think whenever we've seen flashbacks or things that aren't really there, this has always been in-universe, in Camille's mind, never as disembodied narrative. I think we've only ever seen real things happening now, and Camille's memories and mental projections happening now, and everything is happening in chronological order.

    At first I was annoyed, because it seemed like the show was using Westworld time-trickery to make Amma's death ambiguous, but assuming they aren't breaking the rules they seem to have established, Amma has to be alive by the end. Even so, I don't like the way they teased us with the Amma death scene before cutting back to Camille.
    They show her alive and well in the "on the next episode" after the credits at the town picknick/event they keep alluding to.

    See, I thought that was a spoiler. I was being hush about it. But maybe even Jim/Aron can't ignore this. It's really shoddy, honestly, of HBO. They've lost some of my respect.
    Oh i didnt know we were considering "next ons" to be spoilers since they really shouldnt spoil something that big and I just assume that everyone watches them.. my bad!
    Michelle
  • MichelleMichelle California
    JaimieT said:
    gguenot said:
    They show her alive and well in the "on the next episode" after the credits at the town picknick/event they keep alluding to.
    See, I thought that was a spoiler. I was being hush about it. But maybe even Jim/Aron can't ignore this. It's really shoddy, honestly, of HBO. They've lost some of my respect.
    I'm just curious why.  It can't have been only me who assumed that the flash of a dead Amma in the cabin was just in Camille's mind, especially since she was flashing on so many other images at the time.  To see her alive in the preview for the next episode wasn't a huge shocker to me.  In my opinion, there was nothing to spoil.
    phoenyx1023Pangs
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited July 2018
    Michelle said:
    JaimieT said:
    gguenot said:
    They show her alive and well in the "on the next episode" after the credits at the town picknick/event they keep alluding to.
    See, I thought that was a spoiler. I was being hush about it. But maybe even Jim/Aron can't ignore this. It's really shoddy, honestly, of HBO. They've lost some of my respect.
    I'm just curious why.  It can't have been only me who assumed that the flash of a dead Amma in the cabin was just in Camille's mind, especially since she was flashing on so many other images at the time.  To see her alive in the preview for the next episode wasn't a huge shocker to me.  In my opinion, there was nothing to spoil.
    Seeing Amma alive wasn't a huge shocker to me either. Actually I wasn't surprised at all, but I didn't think the flashes of her dead was the cliffhanger, but her being in the headlights of the rapidly approaching car at the end before the credits rolled.

    Also, the cliffhanger of Alan walking into Adora's bedroom with a gun strongly suggest that he's either going to kill her or himself, or both, so that was the other big cliffhanger. And the preview confirmed that at least one of them isn't dead and by the way people are acting in the preview, I'm guessing neither of them are dead or injured by a gunshot.
  • Also, the cliffhanger of Alan walking into Adora's bedroom with a gun strongly suggest that he's either going to kill her or himself, or both, so that was the other big cliffhanger. And the preview confirmed that at least one of them isn't dead and by the way people are acting in the preview, I'm guessing neither of them are dead or injured by a gunshot.
    I was more annoyed by seeing this in the preview. It seemed like someone was going to die. But, I went back and looked, and I don't think they actually show Alan with the gun in the bedroom scene. I guess that doesn't preclude some other act of violence though.
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    Also, the cliffhanger of Alan walking into Adora's bedroom with a gun strongly suggest that he's either going to kill her or himself, or both, so that was the other big cliffhanger. And the preview confirmed that at least one of them isn't dead and by the way people are acting in the preview, I'm guessing neither of them are dead or injured by a gunshot.
    I was more annoyed by seeing this in the preview. It seemed like someone was going to die. But, I went back and looked, and I don't think they actually show Alan with the gun in the bedroom scene. I guess that doesn't preclude some other act of violence though.
    Really? I was sure he had one when we watched, but I've only watched once, so I'll have to take your word on it. Did it perhaps flash to showing some other image with someone holding a gun down? If not, this show is making me see things that aren't there as well.
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    Ok, I had to look it up, and it sounds like there's a shot that seems like it's Alan looking at a gun before he ominously goes up to Adoras bedroom. But that may or may not have been him and it may or may not have been a shot of present day (that night), and my mind just assumed it was Alan and automatically put the gun in his hand.



    The recap of the final scenes from the NYT's Judy Berman, for anyone with a foggy brain like mine:

    ..the scene cuts to a shot of an antique gun on an open bible, positioned next to a cellphone that seems to date back to the pre-smartphone era. A hand holding a drink hovers over it, and then we see Alan raise the same kind of glass and take a drink. It could be the glass from the previous shot with the gun, but maybe not. What’s weird is that I’ve watched these few seconds over and over again, and the settings don’t seem to match.

    As she’s driving, Camille flashes back to photographs and memories of Ann’s and Natalie’s bodies. There is an odd scene in which she enters the hunting shed at night and finds what looks to be Amma’s body, bleeding from the mouth, without roller skates and dressed differently than she was at school that day. But I’m pretty sure that’s just Camille’s imagination: In the next shot, Camille is still driving around.

    Alan opens the door to Adora’s bedroom, and the music turns sinister. Adora looks afraid. Now we see Amma, skating alone and wearing the same dress she was wearing at school earlier that day, as the headlights of a car trail her in the dark. There’s a quick shot of Willis turning around that is too brief to interpret. Amma turns on her skates, freezes and stares into the headlights.

  • Michelle said:
    JaimieT said:
    gguenot said:
    They show her alive and well in the "on the next episode" after the credits at the town picknick/event they keep alluding to.
    See, I thought that was a spoiler. I was being hush about it. But maybe even Jim/Aron can't ignore this. It's really shoddy, honestly, of HBO. They've lost some of my respect.
    I'm just curious why.  It can't have been only me who assumed that the flash of a dead Amma in the cabin was just in Camille's mind, especially since she was flashing on so many other images at the time.  To see her alive in the preview for the next episode wasn't a huge shocker to me.  In my opinion, there was nothing to spoil.
    Seeing Amma alive wasn't a huge shocker to me either. Actually I wasn't surprised at all, but I didn't think the flashes of her dead was the cliffhanger, but her being in the headlights of the rapidly approaching car at the end before the credits rolled.

    Also, the cliffhanger of Alan walking into Adora's bedroom with a gun strongly suggest that he's either going to kill her or himself, or both, so that was the other big cliffhanger. And the preview confirmed that at least one of them isn't dead and by the way people are acting in the preview, I'm guessing neither of them are dead or injured by a gunshot.

    ? Alan did not have a gun when he entered Adora's room. I thought it was pretty straightforward that he went to Adora's room to get it on.
    telephoneofmadnessphoenyx1023
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited July 2018
    @ghm3
     I'm not sure on his intentions, but they were purposely made to seem ominous and not as a visit for some sex, although the thought of intimacy with Adora is pretty fucking ominous. (and seeing the previews for next week, I could see that having been the case)

    See my false gun interpretation explanation in the post above yours.
  • Ok, I had to look it up, and it sounds like there's a shot that seems like it's Alan looking at a gun before he ominously goes up to Adoras bedroom. But that may or may not have been him and it may or may not have been a shot of present day (that night), and my mind just assumed it was Alan and automatically put the gun in his hand.



    The recap of the final scenes from the NYT's Judy Berman, for anyone with a foggy brain like mine:

    ..the scene cuts to a shot of an antique gun on an open bible, positioned next to a cellphone that seems to date back to the pre-smartphone era. A hand holding a drink hovers over it, and then we see Alan raise the same kind of glass and take a drink. It could be the glass from the previous shot with the gun, but maybe not. What’s weird is that I’ve watched these few seconds over and over again, and the settings don’t seem to match.

    As she’s driving, Camille flashes back to photographs and memories of Ann’s and Natalie’s bodies. There is an odd scene in which she enters the hunting shed at night and finds what looks to be Amma’s body, bleeding from the mouth, without roller skates and dressed differently than she was at school that day. But I’m pretty sure that’s just Camille’s imagination: In the next shot, Camille is still driving around.

    Alan opens the door to Adora’s bedroom, and the music turns sinister. Adora looks afraid. Now we see Amma, skating alone and wearing the same dress she was wearing at school earlier that day, as the headlights of a car trail her in the dark. There’s a quick shot of Willis turning around that is too brief to interpret. Amma turns on her skates, freezes and stares into the headlights.

    I'm pretty sure it's Alan's gun. The "pre-smartphone era cell phone" is actually just a cordless landline, not that unusual. 
    ghm3
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Michelle said:
    JaimieT said:
    gguenot said:
    They show her alive and well in the "on the next episode" after the credits at the town picknick/event they keep alluding to.
    See, I thought that was a spoiler. I was being hush about it. But maybe even Jim/Aron can't ignore this. It's really shoddy, honestly, of HBO. They've lost some of my respect.
    I'm just curious why.  It can't have been only me who assumed that the flash of a dead Amma in the cabin was just in Camille's mind, especially since she was flashing on so many other images at the time.  To see her alive in the preview for the next episode wasn't a huge shocker to me.  In my opinion, there was nothing to spoil.

    You could be right. I'm having a difficult week for familial reasons and it's possible I'm just moody. Anyway, I didn't want to just not respond. :)
  • My wife, who has not read the book or has any knowledge of this show beyond just watching (she doesn’t pay attention to Bald Move) has theorized that Camille’s Dad is her editor and he is terminally ill (hence getting chemo) and wants Camille to learn something before he reveals himself to be her Dad before he dies. 
    Freiberg
  • I am avoiding all specific commentary on the show as I am a book reader and don't want to even accidentally spoil anything - but wanted to say I am impressed with how the show is holding my attention even though I already know the ending (unless the show departs a lot from the book in the end).  I also am interested in the deviations from the book and what effect that will have on the overall story.   There are two fairly significant changes especially that I am curious about.  But we will see.

    Really I just wanted to give some props to the Southern Missouri vibe - I grew up in Kansas City, MO and have lots of family in the southern part of the state.  Though I have long since moved away, I still miss the sounds from the environment, seems there were always tree frogs and crickets and other noise makers in the summer that are not the same or missing altogether from other places I have lived.  The show makes sure to keep these sounds present when they are out in nature .  Also the look of Southern MO small town is spot-on.  

    Late to comment as I just caught up with the show.  Glad bald move is covering this series, am enjoying their podcast coverage as usual.
  • @ghm3
     I'm not sure on his intentions, but they were purposely made to seem ominous and not as a visit for some sex, although the thought of intimacy with Adora is pretty fucking ominous. (and seeing the previews for next week, I could see that having been the case)

    See my false gun interpretation explanation in the post above yours.
    Yeah I agree they put an ominous spin on it, it was in the same little montage as Camille imagining finding a dead girl in the shed. But I think it was just as much of a false alarm, to make you think it's one thing at first before realizing it's another.

    That pre-smartphone era cell phone line from the article made me almost laugh out loud, it's just a cordless landline phone as johnnytruant said. Also as he says, the shot of the gun on the Bible is in the house, not sure why the NYT writer was so confused about this, it matches just fine. It's in the corner of the room next to the open door, right on front of where Alan is facing. You can see the door knob of the open door to the left, just as the door is open, as well as the glass in his right hand. He's just looking in the corner of the room. 
  • Congrats HBO. This is the only show where my thumb gets tired from rewinding and freezing every freaking frame to make sure I don’t literally miss a single “word” (like the neon sign that says “can’t”). An Emmy to the editor, please!

    That said, after ample thumb pausing/unpausing of the last minute of the ep, I’ve noticed:
    - Marion’s ghost in sitting outside of Amma’s room
    - Alan is right handed and NOT holding the gun as he enters Adora’s room— evidence is he removes his glasses with his right hand and therefore is not possessing the gun
    - besides “can’t” a few other words we see include “hollow” and “rubber”

    I also agree (as quasi teased in the promo) Amma’s alive and kicking. What I don’t get is why the Sheriff thought that Jackie would spill some beans.  Jackie is way too sober!!

    ps. been a big Bald Move fan and LOVE that this is the only place I can go and not be book spoiled!
    ghm3MichelleJaimieT
  • This episode was a study in what it means to be an unreliable narrator. There's Camille, who wavers between being triggered and hallucinating, and then Adora, who creates her own narrative and declares it to be so. People who are genuine borderlines often do not remember the truth because of the strength of their emotions in the moment, and then the trauma and fear of their parent also damages the short term memories of the child involved, making gaslighting extra dangerous.

    Besides the gaslighting, moments that really struck me in their accuracy:
    * Adora blaming Camille for not fulfilling her emotional needs and not saving her.
    * The buzzing danger of proximity to her mother amidst one of her narcissistic meltdowns.
    * How that cultivates a wariness of closeness with others, but also a desire to be touched in extreme ways.
    * Adora being fake "bedridden" on Camille's birthday and others secretly trying to make up for it.
    * Alan losing it and trying in several ways to make Adora feel anything in response to him--charming, drunken, logical, and finally physical.

    I can remember this occasionally going down while growing up, when someone would finally snap and call my mother out in a frank way on her narcissistic behavior. The rest of us would just look at each other knowingly, because it only succeeds in setting the offender off on a martyrdom narrative and gives them more ammo as you have now exposed your weakness. Interestingly, Camille this labels the Wind Gap way, as if the way every person there relates to each other is touched by Adora's influence. Adora immediately flopping around dramatically like Scarlett O'Hara was classic.

    I only took the sinister music of Alan going to Adora's room as evidence that he was fed up after being dismissed by her twice and was determined to get past her gatekeeping, which he will later pay for one way or the other. Maybe the gun wasn't meant to imply true potential violence, but a symbol of himself, a decorative pistol laying on a Bible. Will he continue to sit there in her ordained world of rules or will he be used to his most basic purpose as a man for once this year?

    Adora telling Camille, "You smell ripe," feels like double meaning. I'm sure Camille literally does stink of sweat, alcohol, and stale cigarettes. But also, "ripe" implies jealousy of Camille's youth in comparison to Adora. There's an anger that despite Camille not measuring up to Adora's personal needs, she is ripe with a raw, hormonal, un-genteel womanhood that Adora can't control and finds dangerous because she no longer has it (if she ever did).

    Lastly, I assumed Camille's vision of a murdered Amma was just a manifestation of her fears once she realized Amma was a part of the Cabin Trio. 
    Eine Frau
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