304 - And Now His Watch is Ended - SPOILERS!

 Little late to this one but finally listened this episode last night - didn't see a thread for this yet.

When discussing Jaime and his slaying of the Mad King, the idea that Ned could be lying about how he found Jaime is brought up, but dismissed due to it being Ned. But I'm wondering if there's something to explore? I'll admit to not reading the books so I don't know how it's presented. But if the story of Ned finding Jaime on the throne is from Ned's telling, it's possible there's something not 100% about it. We know Ned has told, or at least participated in HUGE lies:
  • How Ser Arthur Dayne was killed - Three Eyed Raven says Arthur was "Far better" than Ned, and we see it. Ned wasn't the one who struck the deciding blow (Sure Ned "killed" him because he chopped off his head, but it was Howland who stabbed him in the neck as he was about to kill Ned). And if we're being picky - in terms of honor - that deciding blow was from behind.
  • Jon Snow - from who he is, to the nature of the relationship that bore him
Certainly these lies served larger purposes - The Realm, and His Family - to varying degrees. Does it ultimately matter? Guessing not. But a lie told for the greater good is a lie. The counter evidence would be that Jaime is very nonchalant about pushing a child out of a window to his presumed death. But you could say this attitude is now engrained after years of King Slayer comments and being witness to his own character being assassinated constantly. Or... could all be true and young Jaime just had one of those "F this" moments after watching his entire structure of respect and honor crumble in front of him.

Any legs on this one?

Comments

  • I think the reason they dismissed that he wasn’t lying is partly because it’s ned but mostly because in the books when we read this it is Ned’s thoughts not him telling somebody. So it’s possible that he miss remembers but he can’t really lie while thinking about it. 
  • Ahhh, ok. that's where the mis-remembering comes in. Good clear-up. Nothing to see here <span>:smile:</span>
  • Mis-remembering aside you make some good points.  Ned Stark technically also lied when he confessed to being a traitor as well if I recall correctly.  Understandable but it was still a lie.

    The lie about John's birth bothers me, especially since Ned went so far as to encourage and promote John signing up for the Night's watch.  Was this a cunning and crafty move by Ned to prevent future fighting over the throne (blocking John from taking the throne AND ostensibly blocking him from having heirs)?  Or was Ned just not thinking?  Seems like a cruel move by Ned.  Or did GRRM not decide to make John Snow be a legitimate heir until after the first book was written (not likely)?

    .....And John felt disillusioned by what he found at the wall, indicating that Ned Stark had made it appear grander than it was, so more lies!  
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    All Neds are liars.

  • I imagine the main reason for the lies and Night's Watch was so John Snow didn't get slaughtered as a Targareyn if he was found out.

    Mis-remembering aside you make some good points.  Ned Stark technically also lied when he confessed to being a traitor as well if I recall correctly.  Understandable but it was still a lie.

    The lie about John's birth bothers me, especially since Ned went so far as to encourage and promote John signing up for the Night's watch.  Was this a cunning and crafty move by Ned to prevent future fighting over the throne (blocking John from taking the throne AND ostensibly blocking him from having heirs)?  Or was Ned just not thinking?  Seems like a cruel move by Ned.  Or did GRRM not decide to make John Snow be a legitimate heir until after the first book was written (not likely)?

    .....And John felt disillusioned by what he found at the wall, indicating that Ned Stark had made it appear grander than it was, so more lies!  

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