Catholic talk

cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
edited August 2018 in General
I don’t think it’s been done yet but I’m going to open up Catholic talk.  If it’s not interesting or important then let it sink.

There is the Pennsylvania scandal going on right now. The Netflix documentary The Keepers was not too long ago. I’m curious about other people’s experiences with dealing with their Catholic upbringing. 

I received communion today. Out of old habit.  My oldest son asked me why I “got in line.” Which outed me in front of Catholic country folk as a heathen with my non-Christian Asian wife and halfie boys.

The priest read a memo pushed down by the bishop about the Pennsylvania scandal.  It was a weird day with respect to the Catholicism for sure. Only reason I was there was for my family, my Grandparents anniversary, they are so old and the family is so Catholic.

I’m glad my sister and I can still crack each other up in church with a glance. I was amazed my atheist brother in law put himself in the pew. When the priest did his talk-singing I couldn’t help but think it would be funny if he had auto-tune all the way up and Travis Scott would yell “It’s Lit!”

I know JW is a big thing here but just wondering if there are some people here that got that Catholic thing they’re working out. 
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  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    edited August 2018
    I wasn’t abused either.  It’s just that I heard an entire mass today that was on defense. It was a mass about Jesus saying you cannot be with me unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood. How it is literal and uniquely catholic and the genius in its religious mechanics how God came down for a moment and in complete humility became human on our level to save us. And because of that unique, and it is, part of Catholicism then it will never be undone by scandal. And I’m like - that has nothing to do with the problem. Stop protecting predators.  Stop recruiting incels and making them your institutional model. Let women be priests. Let priests marry. Let LGBT be priests. Or if not then just wither away immediately and let these children not be ruined.

    The priest was at the anniversary party. He didn’t drink because he had a funeral to do afterward.  Weird day. I would do very bad things to anyone that touched my boys, like any father.  It was interesting seeing my apologist defensive family having to hear that part of the mass, the memo. It was like ‘see! There is a problem. Stop ignoring it.’  
     
    majjam0770JaimieTKela15
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    Oh and I also play along and receive communion if I find myself in church for some family reason (which is the only time I go). I oddly do think of myself as Catholic when I'm there. Lol And why draw attention to myself? I completed the prerequisites. Haha

    I feel like we should have a category of "secular Catholic" like there are "secular Jews." I do think a lot of my beliefs about social welfare were influenced by the church. 
    I’m there man. Completely know that feeling as recently practiced today. 
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  • I grew up in a Catholic family and went through the sacraments from baptism to confirmation.  My maternal grandmother is my only grandparent still alive.  She is very much an old-school, never-question-the-faith type who wishes the services were still given in Latin.  My parents still attend Mass and are involved in the church a lot, but are not as hard-core as the previous generation.   My siblings (all adults now) mostly do not attend Mass anymore but go along with the rituals at holidays and family occasions and the ones that have kids are bringing up their kids as Catholics.  

    I have been removed from the Church for a long time.  I don't really believe in God-as-layed-out-in-the-bible (agnostic would be the best way to describe me) but I feel sick about all the stuff going on in the Catholic Church, since like it or not, it is a part of me and influenced my growing up.  I wish the Church would evolve and let priests marry and let women have equal roles to the men and see the value of birth control and not condemn gay people.  I wish Pope Francis would take a harder line - he seems to have the right inclinations anyway.  But it may be too little too late.  The church has been in decline for awhile and I feel it has to change or continue to die.  I am glad the church is acknowledging the issue - but is that really enough?  
    Kela15
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England
    I was raised Catholic in the kind of cultural sense I always say, because even when I was tiny I never had any sense of belief that God was real. It was kind of just the thing that I did with my Spanish grandparents every weekend etc.

    I can't say that I ever witnessed or heard rumours of sexual abuse within our community, but I did have some straight out of a bad movie, stereotypically horrific nuns at Sunday school. I still have a scar on my wrist from being hit with a wooden stick for writing left-handed for fucks sake.

    When I fully realised I was gay as a young teen, I knew the keeping up appearances wasn't going to be a thing for me, so church going just sort of faded out of my routine, confession felt like it would have been an impossible thing to keep doing. I still go to midnight mass at Christmas every now and then if I'm feeling particularly spirited or don't have the heart to argue with my grandparents on Christmas Eve.
    russkelly
  • voodooratvoodoorat Atlanta
    edited August 2018
    i'm a lapsed catholic and while church (and sunday school) was a weekly event growing up, i've been away from it far longer now than i was active in it as a child and teen--just about the only times i go to mass now are when it's attached to a wedding or a funeral.  i was an altar boy and went to sunday school and everything as a child and was never abused or saw any abuse, but although i don't think the celibacy vow *causes* priests to become sexual predators or anything, i do think there's a correlation in that if there's something about their sexuality that a catholic young man is uncomfortable with, there's that out of going into the priesthood and supposedly putting it behind you--which winds up eventually with these people in positions of authority, with access, and with some peers with the same backgrounds.  

    personally i've always found the ritual a little soothing, and thought that on balance the church was probably a net positive as a moral guide (on the finer points of which some i disagree but mostly your vanilla moral code) for those who need moral guidance.  but this institutional moral rot is hard to hand-wave away, it corrupts to the core and has to be dealt with at the time, not just after the fact, after you get caught.

    as far as the institutional response, i don't know if a really appropriate one exists.  the damage has been done, both tot he victims and to the reputation (as it were) of the church and the clergy.  it's hard to imagine the personal psychological damage to (especially true-believing) victims for whom the moral authority of the church will forever be a bitter joke, i also feel bad for real priests whose goal is to help and nurture their flock and it's hard to see how they'd remain a part of the institution (or choose it to begin with, why would a person who wants to pursue that kind of life with pure motives want to be a catholic priest knowing all this history?).

    my younger sister (mary margaret, of course!) is still pretty devout, the rest of us all are all mostly-heathen at this point.

    one weird thing...  i'm from the atlanta area and of course southern baptists (and some other protestants) were in the vast majority growing up around here in the 70s and 80s, so in my view catholics were always a pretty small religious minority, like jews (i knew probably about as many jewish kids as i knew fellow catholic kids from school growing up).  my wife is from the detroit area where catholicism is much more common and she's always been pretty staunchly anti-catholic (although somewhat ironically she goes to a unitarian universalist church now which is such a similar set of actions to do albeit with very different underlying politics and philosophies, i've been a few times and it was both very familiar and very strange--and also felt like a very weird thing to be doing if you're not actually worshiping anything but maybe that's just how extroverts sunday).
    majjam0770
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    I was raised nominally Catholic, but in a half-arsed, church-for-Easter-and-Christmas kind of way. My grandmother was super religious, the rest of the family just dragged along with it. 

    In the 80s, when I was a teen, a boy in our town who we all vaguely knew (everyone vaguely knew everyone else in this town at the time) killed himself, and his mother went to the local paper multiple times saying it was because one of the Brothers at the school he attended molested him. She was kind of written off as just being crazy, the school vehemently denied it and did what I now recognise as complete gaslighting her - “We understand her grief and her need for a reason for this tragedy blah blah”. A decade or two later the Brother was charged with multiple sexual assaults against boys at the school. My brother went to that school and there was always talk about several of the Brothers being dodgy. The school did nowt until their hand was forced, though, and in the meantime, one boy was dead and who knows how many traumatised? It was pretty gross. 

    And just a couple of weeks ago here in Adelaide, the Archbishop resigned after being found guilty of covering up sex crimes. 

    http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-30/adelaide-archbishop-philip-wilson-resigns/10053626?pfmredir=sm


    majjam0770A_Ron_HubbardKela15
  • russkellyrusskelly Indianapolis
    I'm Catholic. I'm still catholic. We go to church most sundays. My kid just got baptized. The priest in our church is a very open minded guy. He brought up what is happening in Pennsylvania and rightfully condemned all the parties involved in the abuse and the coverup. But there is another scandal going on right now in Indianapolis involving a guidance counselor at a Catholic school that is in a same sex marriage. She is being forced to resign over her marriage.  He gave this tempered all opinions matteresque response and I found it to be disappointing. I was hoping for a bold statement in favor of the counselor, but we didn't get it. Our parish is in the middle of the city. We have active gay members that serve as Eucharistic ministers, lectors, ect. But there is also a growing amount of very conservative young couples in the church as well and it puts priests in a shitty position. I kind of feel bad for the guy. You just don't want to deal with it. For me, I made the decision to be openly pro choice and openly pro marriage equality. I don't go picking arguments, but I think it's important for people to know that I am both a progressive and a Catholic so that maybe someone else that believes the same as I can see that and hopefully stand tall some day too until there are enough of us that our priests feel safe to speak the truth.
    amyja89cdriveMattyWeavesJaimieTDeeNoelJayland86KingKobra
  • Oh and I also play along and receive communion if I find myself in church for some family reason (which is the only time I go). I oddly do think of myself as Catholic when I'm there. Lol And why draw attention to myself? I completed the prerequisites. Haha

    I feel like we should have a category of "secular Catholic" like there are "secular Jews." I do think a lot of my beliefs about social welfare were influenced by the church. 

    totally - as a lapsed/atheist/secular Jew I do feel kinship w/ Catholics in similar situations - that being Jewish/Catholic is a cultural and identity thing and not a religious thing.
  • kuman07kuman07 Kansas City
    cdrive said:
    I wasn’t abused either.  It’s just that I heard an entire mass today that was on defense. It was a mass about Jesus saying you cannot be with me unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood. How it is literal and uniquely catholic and the genius in its religious mechanics how God came down for a moment and in complete humility became human on our level to save us. And because of that unique, and it is, part of Catholicism then it will never be undone by scandal. And I’m like - that has nothing to do with the problem. Stop protecting predators.  Stop recruiting incels and making them your institutional model. Let women be priests. Let priests marry. Let LGBT be priests. Or if not then just wither away immediately and let these children not be ruined.

    The priest was at the anniversary party. He didn’t drink because he had a funeral to do afterward.  Weird day. I would do very bad things to anyone that touched my boys, like any father.  It was interesting seeing my apologist defensive family having to hear that part of the mass, the memo. It was like ‘see! There is a problem. Stop ignoring it.’  
     
    I was raised catholic but no longer practicing. The issue I have with let priests marry, is it's just beyond out that now. It's institutionalized to the point where you have predators ingratiating themselves into that community because they know they will be protected as we have seen time and time again. Not that I am not for letting priests marry, letting women be priests, etc but that will not solve the problem. Its such a big institutionalized problem with these cover ups, you are still going to have predators putting themselves into this community because they know they will be protected.
    cdrive
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    MrX said:
    Oh and I also play along and receive communion if I find myself in church for some family reason (which is the only time I go). I oddly do think of myself as Catholic when I'm there. Lol And why draw attention to myself? I completed the prerequisites. Haha

    I feel like we should have a category of "secular Catholic" like there are "secular Jews." I do think a lot of my beliefs about social welfare were influenced by the church. 

    totally - as a lapsed/atheist/secular Jew I do feel kinship w/ Catholics in similar situations - that being Jewish/Catholic is a cultural and identity thing and not a religious thing.
    I’m a pretty firm atheist these days but things like churches being converted into houses makes me a bit queasy. I remember years ago I went to a night club that was in an old converted church and I couldn’t get out of there fast enough. Old superstitions die hard. 
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited August 2018
    @Dee
    You’d feel real weird in Venice then, they converted 51 of their 139 churches (and we’re talking big, classic cathedral style churches) into public facilities like museums and schools because they just had too many churches and not enough people to use them all. 
    Dee
  • AFAIK it's the altar that's holy, not the rest of the building.
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    AFAIK it's the altar that's holy, not the rest of the building.
    Oh, logically I know it’s dumb, but like I said, it’s kind of a superstition with me.
  • MattyWeavesMattyWeaves Mid-State New York
    I've wanted to mention religion in quite a few other topics but I always erase everything and move on.

    I was raised catholic in a tiny town and for the first eight or so years of my life it was Easter and Christmas with Sunday school and all the programs that go along with it.

    I always hated it, and not because I look back on it and hate it, I legit hated going to Sunday school. It was boring, and none of it made sense. As I got older, it got later and later in the day, eventually to Sunday nights which drove me nuts, because of football or wrestling PPVs being on, and school the next morning.

    My step father came into the picture and was a hardcore catholic so I started having to go more. I was told to volunteer to help sometimes. I had to hold those stupid baskets down the pew so people could put their money in it or greet people at the door and hand out something like prayers cards.

    I remember around that same time starting to question the whole Jesus thing, because if Santa had been a lie, the Easter bunny, leprechauns, etc. why should I believe in another imaginary person? 

    So I started doing little tests to see if God and/or Jesus were listening. I determined after a bit that they weren't. I had performed similar experiments with Santa, which led to me realizing he wasn't real.

    Around 16/17 I declared myself a Buddhist and my family thought that was hilarious.

    Cut to 20 when my girlfriend who later became my wife convinced me to try community college. I figured I should try and tried introduction to philosophy.

    My entire life changed after that, five philosophy classes later and I deemed myself an official atheist. 

    As of now, I don't identify as anything at all. I'm nothing, I don't give a shit to label my thoughts as anything. I believe in science, there is nothing after we die, and that's where I stand.


    "I hate to break it to you, but there is no big lie, there is no system, the universe is indifferent."
    russkellyDeeGiovanniTaraC73
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    @MattyWeaves Interesting, I also identify as "I don't care" these days. When my sister asked me if I believed that Jesus is God a few months ago, that was my answer, so now I'm and out and proud Don't Carist.
    MattyWeavesKela15Murderbear
  • davemcbdavemcb Melbourne
    My mum's side of the family is very catholic whilst my dads side of the family might not be able to find a church. I went to Catholic school, was made to attend mass each week until I finished school and was raised a traditional catholic (fish for dinner on Friday etc). Once I finished school I moved into the E&C catholic model to appease my mum, since she passed about 8 years ago I have only been to church for weddings, funerals and family Christenings. I had my eldest daughter baptised but still haven't had my youngest done yet, this is very much out of respect for my mum than for any religious hangover. 

    My mum's extended family is enormous (just for stereotypes) but it consists of 1 priest, runs multiple parish offices and others play big roles in their parish. My oldest sister started going back to church when her kids started going to Catholic primary schools and my other sister never stopped but ultimately I don't think I will ever be anything other than a non-practicing Catholic. During our census etc I will list myself as Catholic because in reality I am I just would probably be an agnostic if I really think about it. 

    Having gone to an all boys catholic school and none of the people that I still know didn't see or know of anything else but its odd that the whole school knew that one of the priest was sporting a large appendage doesn't bode well for the fact that something probably did happen in the time that I was there. The whole abuse issue isn't just limited to the catholic church but they are obviously the most publicised institution to have these scandals and they decided to cover it up especially in Australia from the 50's-60's etc. 
    russkellyDeeMattyWeaves
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    edited August 2018
    Ive been an altar boy. Went to Catholic school. Did all the stuff up until confirmation. Confirmation was when I said I’m done. When I would stay over at my friend’s house I had to go to his Baptist Church Sunday mornings. They had those Chick booklets and one was called “The Death Cookie.”  It was a condemnation of Catholicism.  The demon on the cookie image really shook me cause I was like...damn this is so dumb...battles between denominations. I thought it was so bullshit my parents made me go to church a second time Sunday evening. I was like- What is the difference? I went to church already so I’m good! But it didn’t count to them cause it was Baptist church.  Didn’t receive communion. 



    But around 16 I started reading non-Christian stuff like Peace Is Every Step. And The Wisdom of the Vedas. And then I was done.  I’ll still participate when I have to with family which is very seldomly.  My sister and I have had some pretty big fights with my Dad about it.  My Mom just accepts it.  She grew up Episcopalian.  Her small town church was way more chill.  They have a woman priest. 
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    @davemcb My Mum is one of 15 kids - right there with you on the stereotypes! 
    davemcb
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England
    Yep, my grandmother was the youngest of nine! Her parents died when she was very young and her eldest sister looked after her as much as she could, but in the end she was sent to a convent school in the middle of Madrid. She doesn’t like to talk about it much but from what I have heard, she was treated terribly by the nuns. I can imagine that 1940s Catholic Spanish nuns were no joke.
    davemcb
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    edited August 2018
    When I was a kid I was a alter boy. Back then the priest that ran our church ran it with a iron fist. He was not gonna have shenanigans in his parish. I always felt safe in the back part the church in the we hours when it was me and the priest in the church. 
    Although we did have a young good looking priest that the girls used to flirt with, hard. I guess he seem safe because he was off limits. But who knows it was a little creepy. 
    After my confermation my mom kind of left going up to church up to me so I bailed. I don’t real believe in the god thing to much but we had friends and community at church and I do see the good that was there. I get kinda get sad now when I hear stories of abuse. It kinda brings down the good things the church does.
    Anyway I glad to see the church I attended was rebuilt after a arson fire. I went to check it out a few weeks back. The one thing I noticed it was so much smaller than before. Our parish was a huge one when I was a kid in the eighties. I know our town has changed with the building of the largest Buddhist temple in the Western Hemisphere. But I know a lotta people just have dropped out.  It is definitely a loss for the whole town.
    russkelly
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    My parents are Catholics, my mother was a devout Catholic as a girl and a teenager, I don’t know about now as she doesn’t attend mass regularly. We never went to church when I was a child, years later when I was 15 I pursued confirmation and baptism under the RCIA (adult confirmation) and have been a believer since. My father was a Christmas and Easter Catholic as a child, never went to church with me except at my confirmation. I have never seen anything regarding abuse in person. But I only joined after that was above the board publically. I do feel the Church has gotten a bad rap simply because the size alone means some priests will be abusers, just like teachers or day care workers or even sometimes step parents. I don’t think I’m “working a Catholic thing out” I’m very happy. I just got back from Chile (predominately Catholic country) and almost felt more welcome in this foreign country where I barely speak the language then where I grew up, just do to the prevelance of the churches and the imagery and the outward expressions of faith which Are common there
  • davemcbdavemcb Melbourne
    @Dee have you seen the series of concerts from Chapel off Chapel in Melbourne called "Live at the Chapel"? its an awesome building but also I would feel a little odd going there. Some really good sets from The Foo Fighters, Jimmy Barnes, Noel Gallagher, Live and many more.
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  • Every time I skim through the forum now I keep reading the title of this thread as Cat Holic and become very confused for 5 seconds. 
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