SPOILORE / "Tinfoil" topic archive *SPOILERS*

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  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    edited May 2015
    I'm pretty sure the attempt on Dany which was foiled by Selmy was the warlocks, not the FM.

    It was when Robert wanted to take out Dany in the show that Petyr mentioned the FM as a possibility. But said that a whole army of sellswords would be cheaper. Seems like for the show the FM are for hire but very expensive. We see that the Tyrells are wealthy enough to afford them given that Mace offered to pay the crown's debt like it was no bigs.

    Also, in an interview with the Mace actor, he says Mace has more going on than meets the eye. And I sure hope so because his character is abominably one dimensional. And if he's playing dumb it would be consistent with the kind of operator Marg is.

    ElisaCJwritermanhattnik
  • CJwriterCJwriter North of the Wall... MT
    @steph_b   Thinking you may be correct about Mace Tyrell. I too think he may have more going on behind his clown act, or I hope so. Maybe when some pressure is applied some character will emerge? Might be Mace will stand in as the oaf that Wyman Manderly plays in the books. Not to make a Frey pie mind you, but something else, especially if the worse happens to Loras.We know the Ds like combining characters and story threads. <More show tinfoil> Just a crazy thought (he may not even return from Braavos), cause I think it's too late to introduce the Manderly thread to the tale at this point, unless they sub the Great Jon as others have suggested.  
    steph_b
    If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
    Valar Morghulis.
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    @CJwriter I really like the idea of Mace taking on character traits of Manderly. I like that alot. 

    I joked last night that the show is going super meta and combining characters like so many fan theories about secret identities.
  • chrisk Indianapolis
    Man, that Euron = Daario theory.

    Aron first started talking I rolled my eyes and by the end I was just about convinced. I'd like to see the timelines lined up with the proof of how they line up, but it sounds solid. Only thing I'm not sure about, Euron's one bad eye seems to be a longstanding thing in the books. Seems odd to carry on the affectation of a bad eye in your "real" life only so you can have both when in disguise. 

    I'm guessing that even if it's true they don't connect the two on the show. They'll just have Daario do whatever Euron ends up doing. 
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    edited May 2015
    Haha, that's the same thing I thought. The eyepatch is indeed hard to explain.  But then again, Daario has a (fake?) gold tooth.  Maybe he sports a weird affectation in all his roles to further his ability to be disguised.  

    I don't think the theory is accurate, BUT, I was amazed at how well it holds together.  If it's not true, it's almost like GRRM put enough supporting detail in there to just mess with us.  The non-overlapping timelines, the speedy travel explained in detail, it's interesting to say the least. 
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Remember when GRRM mentioned he had a plot twist invention that the show could not do...do you think it had to do with Sir Barristan?  Like maybe Sir Barristan aided Jaime in the Mad King's death or something with the tower of joy or Lyanna?  Just saying...

    Still mad about Barry's death in the show. =\
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    at this point I want the shows and books to completely diverge.
    ElisaCJwriter
  • My little tinfoil for the day is not really related to the most recent episode at all but that doesn't matter here does it? And it most definitely resides in a B-story.

    We know that Qyburn is currently trying to resurrect The Mountain ... but to what end? I know Cersei needs a champion but I don't see the writers going through the motions of resurrecting him just for that end. What we know of Gregor Cleqane's past lends itself to only one suitable death (from a story telling POV, IMHO) - and that would be at the hands of Sandor, The Hound.

    We did not see The Hound die on screen in the show, nor on page in the books - if I am remembering correctly. 

    So my little B story theory is that The Hound is not dead and he will end up killing The Franken-Mountain and justly vindicate his poor burned face. 

    Apologies if this theory has been posted before and you're not supposed to do that, total newb here.


    steph_b
    "First come smiles, then lies, last is gunfire."
    RIP Lil' Sebastian

  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    @A_Ron_Hubbard did you mention the tinfoil that Euron is a failed apprentice of Blood Raven?
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    @Tonya I do believe that piece of tinfoil has been refered to as the Clegane Bowl and has been covered/is thought to be fact at this point.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Elisa:  WHAAAAATTTT?  No, I did not?  Details?

    Tonya: Yes, check out the archive, that is the "Gravedigger" theory.
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    @A_Ron_Hubbard Is there a simple way to access all of the season 4 tinfoils?

    My podcast programs will only go as far back as 408.
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Let me google @A_Ron_Hubbard .  Can't remember if it was on reddit or on other ASOIAF podcasts.
  • @A_Ron_Hubbard If Howland Reed is indeed the High Septon, some have asked why an Old God worshipping and empowered Northman would unite thousands under the banner of The Seven? I say what better way to build an army that can be replenished by the small folk and possibly move out of the South to help to defend the North against The Others. Especially considering how decimated The North is from wars in the south.
    CJwriter
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    ksa1001 said:

    @A_Ron_Hubbard Is there a simple way to access all of the season 4 tinfoils?


    My podcast programs will only go as far back as 408.
    Not really.  We have to keep our feeds trim or iTunes starts wigging on us.  The best I can tell you is to use the website, and either play the pods on your mobile device from there or download them and play them with whatever.
    ksa1001
  • edited May 2015
    Jon + Arya...?

    I was reading the Original 3 page outline for the series that GRRM wrote back in 1993 http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-was-supposed-to-be-a-trilogy-2015-2#ixzz3bLHeiNAB

    Obviously the story is not spot on with how the books are now, but there are some interesting passages that spark my attention.  

     

    "Jon Snow, the bastard, will remain in the far north. He will mature into a ranger of great daring, and ultimately will succeed his uncle as the commander of the Night's Watch. When Winterfell burns, Catelyn Stark will be forced to flee north with her son Bran and her daughter Arya. Wounded by Lannister riders, they will seek refuge at the Wall, but the men of the Night's Watch give up their families when they take the black, and Jon and Benjen will not be able to help, to Jon's anguish. It will lead to a bitter estrangement between Jon and Bran. Arya will be more forgiving ... until she realizes, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night's Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book"

     

     

    So as you can see - there are some interesting lines in here... not necessarily spot on with the plot now, but GRRM obviously had this on his mind at one point...Another passage i found interesting:

     

    "Tyrion Lannister will continue to travel, to plot, and to play the game of thrones, finally removing his nephew Joffrey in disgust at the boy king's brutality. Jaime Lannister will follow Joffrey on the throne of the Seven Kingdoms, by the simple expedient of killing everyone ahead of him in the line of succession and blaming his brother Tyrion for the murders. Exiled, Tyrion will change sides, making common cause with the surviving Starks to bring his brother down, and falling helplessly in love with Arya Stark while he's at it. His passion is, alas, unreciprocated, but no less intense for that, and it will lead to a deadly rivalry between Tyrion and Jon Snow."

     

    Another interesting post on i found on the ASOIAF boards was some more connections between Jon and Arya.  One interesting thought is how Jon compares  Arya and Ygritte many times.   


    "Jon could see fear and fire in her eyes. Blood ran down her white throat from where the point of his dirk had pricked her. One thrust and it’s done, he told himself. He was so close he could smell onion on her breath. She is no older than I am. Something about her made him think of Arya, though they looked nothing at all alike."


    "She looked plump as she crouched there, but most of that was layers of fur and wool and leather. Underneath all that she could be as skinny as Arya."


    “If you kill a man, and never mean t’, he’s just as dead,” Ygritte said stubbornly. Jon had never met anyone so stubborn, except maybe for his little sister Arya."


    Jon also compares Arya with Alys and Val as well.  Check out the full thread @  http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/105392-jon-and-arya/ Just thought this was an interesting tinfoil theory

    steph_b
  • Mikey said:

    "Jon Snow, the bastard, will remain in the far north. He will mature into a ranger of great daring, and ultimately will succeed his uncle as the commander of the Night's Watch. When Winterfell burns, Catelyn Stark will be forced to flee north with her son Bran and her daughter Arya. Wounded by Lannister riders, they will seek refuge at the Wall, but the men of the Night's Watch give up their families when they take the black, and Jon and Benjen will not be able to help, to Jon's anguish. It will lead to a bitter estrangement between Jon and Bran. Arya will be more forgiving ... until she realizes, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night's Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book"

    Well, I'm very pleased GRRM didn't go this route! It's much more interesting to think of Jon and Arya meeting back up after he's gone through everything that he's going to go through (including death, I guess) and she's like a master assassin or whatever. She would be a match for him.


    On the other hand, they grew up as sister and brother and she loved him like a brother, and he thinks of her as a little kid, so it's a bit creepy as well. Unless they recast Arya (and I highly doubt that), I can't see how they'd get past the creepiness factor on the show. 

  • Those are pretty crazy statements and again, all but confirm R+L=J. I wonder, since there is no mention of Sansa, if Arya is perhaps Sansa's age due to all the interest from grown men a la Sansa in the books while Arya is confused for a boy and called horseface. That would make it less creepy at least.


  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    sansa is totally going to kill Littlefinger or at least be responsible for his take down. The Ghost of High Heart prophesied it in ASOS.

    This quote from Westeros.org forum (poster's name is Devala) sums it up nicely:

    "The Woods Witch at High Heart dreamed of a girl with purple vipers in her hair (Sansa with the poisonous "black amethysts from Asshai" in her hairnet), and then of the same girl slaying a giant in a castle made of snow. Now this seems to have been fulfilled by her destroying Robert Arryn's toy giant in her literal castle made of snow, but I just noticed on a re-read that Petyr Baelish's House sigil is the Titan of Braavos - rather similar to a giant, no? And the Eyrie in winter could well be seen as "a castle made of snow". "

    ElisaLady C
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Maybe D & D have converted this castle to Winterfell in the show....hmmm
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    It isn't a given that GRRM meant the castle to be the Eyrie either. Winter is coming and all castles will be covered in snow now.
    Elisa
  • So we have 2 living Targaryen children in Aegon (Rhaegar and Elia Martell) and Daenerys (Aerys II and Rhaella). One is wasting time in Meereen and the other is poised to lay siege to Storm's End with the Golden Company (Blackfyre contract & al.)
    I've been thinking, along with all of you, about who the third dragon rider is supposed to be. Certainly the R+L=J Theory is too ironclad to deny but my man Jon is in the most cliffhanger-y death sequence in living memory. R'hllor magic and White Walker magic aside, this seems to open the door for a replace-a-rider. I want to look at a few candidates who are linked by something I haven't seen mentioned yet and is easy to gloss over; this maybe a repeat first-reveal in the Dragon Rider musical chairs game. 

    Jon Snow - Mother killed during labor.
    Brienne of Tarth - Mother killed during labor.
    Daenerys - Mother killed during labor.
    Tyrion Lannister- Mother killed during labor. 

    Obviously I cannot make a very good case for Brienne without combing through the books and highlighting a few paragraphs of shaky content aside from that superficial labor instance but I think she possesses the same kind of ethereal "sleepwalking through the mists of knighthood" quality that Rhaegar was described as having. 

    Many of us subscribe to the Aerys II + Joanna Lannister = Tyrion theory. The opportunity and the motive are well established; more than the lusting over Joanna thing, Aerys II seems to have developed a real passion for trolling Tywin. Naming his heir to the Kingsguard and then planting a bastard in Tywin's truly beloved wife would do it.

    I think ultimately this leaves three dragons for five suitors. I think Daenerys' silly vain choices will be explained in Winds by her perniciously growing mad. She was always simply just a vehicle to deliver dragons to Planetos once again. Aegon should be able to bond with his relatives in some organic way; as for the other two, there are a few magic dragon-binding horns floating around. I suspect one will kill Dany as she blows it and the other will simultaneously unite a dragon with a rider and bring down The Wall. Too over the top for the ending of Winds?
  • I ran across this collection of all TWOW updates on The Wars & Politics of Ice and Fire Blog. Lots of interesting tidbits are there.

    https://bryndenbfish.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/the-complete-winds-of-winter-resource/
    Elisa
  • Also new So Spake Martin Info re: Nights King & Maegor III.

    http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/12392
    Elisa
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    edited June 2015
    Fascinating.  I'm super surprised he was willing to comment on the Night's King situation.  That flushes a lot of tin foil down the toilet. Which can't be good for the old septic system.
    steph_b
  • I'm thinking his comment could mean that the current leader of the Others is definitely not the original Nights King of Lore but that there have been subsequent leaders. If that's the case then who is eligible for leadership? I think this could actually strengthen the odds that Jon could end up as the new Nights King. But who knows. All this just makes me more anxious about what exactly the show is spoiling right now.
    Elisa
  • I wonder if they're just using the term because it sounds cool.  Has the show brought up the legend of the Night's King?  I don't recall it.
  • I just can't see D&D making up the fact that The Others have a clear hierarchy of leadership. That's significant. And I'm sure it's the same in the books. I think GRRM is trying to manage people's fears about the show spoiling the books using his typical double speak.
  • uncle_guncle_g CA, USA
    edited June 2015
    Has there been any speculations about how the Starks' and other individuals' ability to warg can be seen as being related to the Others' ability to reanimate and movtivate the dead?  Is it possible they're different rungs on the same ladder?

    eg: 
    level 1) controlling live animals
    level 2) controlling live humans
    level 3) reanimating dead animals
    level 4) reanimating dead humans
    level 5) motivating dead humans 

    Does this maybe point to some "Other" (or some other counteropposing force) blood present in the Stark bloodline?

    G

    ElisaThe_Epic_Chechen
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