Later Gators

anubus21

So it's about that time...no, not time for a cold beer but time to say bye bye Bald Move. I have supported this website, the podcasts, and @Jim and @A_Ron_Hubbard for more than two years because I enjoyed the content and the community. I am still looking forward to my copy of A.Ron's book and will listen to the Game of Thrones podcast for Season 8, but that'll be it. What I won't do is continue to monetarily support a website/community that tells me I have to think a certain way or be banned.

For those of you who don't hang around in the more politically oriented threads, it has become policy that if you argue that President Trump isn't a racist then you will be banned from the forums.  In A.Ron's own words from a DM we exchanged,

"I'm not going to have people deny Trump's racism when it's so blatant, cruel, and obvious."

Well I have a problem with dangerous, blanket statements such as that, especially when they come with an ultimatum. I can admit the President can be racially tone deaf at times but calling him an out and out racist and threatening to kick off anyone who disagrees crosses a line with me (and I didn't vote for the guy). A.Ron told me in the same DM,

"You're welcome to stay and keep your mouth shut and listen to the women and people of color here about political and social issues that are life and death to them, or you're welcome to seek out whatever free speech utopia that will let you air your completely obvious and banal opinions to the world, because there are a lot of them out there and this isn't one of them."

Now it is their website and they are within their rights to kick people off. But for a community that is supposed to be open and inclusive, this new policy strikes me as knee jerk and smacks of someone pushing their own political agenda. I don't come onto Bald Move to listen to an echo chamber of negativity, but that's what it has become. I won't stay and keep my mouth shut as A.Ron told me I would have to do because I have beliefs and in this country I am free to express those beliefs, and I will express my beliefs that I should be able to openly speak about my viewpoint without fear of persecution or retribution (the mods on here have frequently threatened me with banning and I have been cursed at repeatedly for some of my viewpoints, which seems to be ok with A.Ron since I haven't seen him smack the hands of others for coming after me).

I would advise moderate and conservative leaning people to reexamine your monetary support of Bald Move in light of their new policy and attempts to control the narrative on the forums/website in ways that are hostile towards us (even if you don't support the President). The guys are great podcasters, but they have injected too much of their political agenda into Bald Move and I think it will be part of their undoing in the end. 

Best Wishes,
Anubus21

JaimieT

It sounds like if you want a message board that models itself after the US government you will be happier elsewhere. Best wishes!

hitmy

you've got the set of all BM listeners

a subset of that are members of the club

a subset of that are those that participate in the forums (<1%?)

a subset of that are those that participate in any of the political discussions

a subset of that are those that don't think Trump is a racist

I hardly think it'll be the "undoing" of BM to take a stand against the blatant horror-show of bigotry and criminal traitorous lying that this administration represents. 

MrX

anubus21 said:

The guys are great podcasters, but they have injected too much of their political agenda into Bald Move and I think it will be part of their undoing in the end. 

In other words, "stick to sports" ... I'm sure Jim and ARon will take that into consideration ... or not.

Hatorian

While I can sympathise with your plight Bald Move is a privately owned company and have all the right to decide who they want and don’t want commenting on their forums. I’m all for objective and honest discussion between different sides of a political spectrum. 

But the guys have been pretty clear on what they accept as constructive discussion and what is not. Also re-posting private messages and warnings and then publicitsing those messages isn’t a very mature way of handling things. 

theres a reason those messages were made private. Free speech simply applies to someone’s ability to speak out against the government in a public forum. It does not give mean you have the right to speak thoughts many people seem racist and innaprooriate on a private forum. 

A_Ron_Hubbard

@Anubus21, I have appreciated your support over the years. However, I would like to point out the hypocrisy in simultaneously decrying the oppression of your supposed loss of free speech while encouraging members who share your views to boycott Bald Move. Also, this flouncing business is expressly forbidden under Rule #10. But anyway, if we lose a few bucks taking stands for sides we believe in, that's a deal we'll always make. I mean, you do realize you're talking to two men who threw away their entire friends and family circles because we became convinced that one side was right and the other was wrong and we're not going to play it safe and put our heads in the sand, right? 

I find it sad that you can sift through my public speech on the subject and decide that I think all Trump voters are racist, and has trouble with my "dangerous, blanket statements" on that subject, but with all of Trump's public speech and policy we get this "Oh sure, the President can be racially tone deaf at times but calling him an out and out racist... I don't know, that's a bridge too far, fellas," bullshit. It's not a good look, man, and I have to feel like deep down you know this.  

And you're not even being banned for contorting yourself into logical pretzels to overlook the sheer odiousness of Trump. You're banned because you can't shut up about it. Minorities in this country swallow tons of shit on a daily basis but the line you draw is a podcast host demanding people acknowledge that Trump is a racist? That's got you to the barricades? 

I'm an atheist. When I'm sitting at a Christian table and they say grace, I bow my head. I do not loudly proclaim that "I'm an atheist and you all are deluded with your invisible sky god". I could state that as politely as I'd like, and with an absolute conviction that I'm correct, and I'd still be at the very least, a massive asshole. Every discussion with you and the few who are like you around here can never advance beyond first principles. It can never advance beyond the kind of network cable screaming heads crap that no one cares about. It's always going to be like this, forever. You're /r/thewalkingdead in complete denial about how shitty the show has become, and the rest of us want to move on to more interesting topics. I'm so sick of the carefully constructed arguments framing fundamentally offensive ideas trying to tip toe around our rules. I'm so sick of bad faith topics being introduced like "Will this one woman who sexually harassed a dude be the end of #metoo?", which I note with gratification that the Bald Move community always, always handles beautifully. Which you must find frustrating, because you want to prove that we're the real racists, or we're the real sexists, or that we can't possibly have a consistent world view because yours is such a roiling contradiction of what you see as heroic and good but continually proves to be corrupt and bankrupt. It's just so boring and tired. And you just show how far behind you are on the real conversations around these topics. 

I suspect many of the people that are leaving Bald Move because of this stance are going to be feeling really stupid a few years from now. If so, please feel free to come back and tell us of your journey. Jim and I have shaped and curated a community that we feel proud of. We'll continue to do so. But we've also been deeply wrong and ignorant on so many things that we'll always be glad to welcome someone back when you see the light on the road to Damascus. 

A_Ron_Hubbard

Mods, I cleaned up this thread a bit and would like to leave it closed as a response to @anubus21's comments and those that might feel the way he does.