Let's talk about Elon Musk.

Coming off the last lunch where some distate for Elon was brought up i'm kind of interested in what's going on with public perception of Elon. Where's the hate coming from for you @A_Ron_Hubbard? I know generally the things that have been in the news lately so i'll list them but interested in what the rest of the community feels is up with him.

1) Calling the Thailand diver a Pedo multiple times unrepentant.
2) Twitter fights about journalist and denigrating bad press.
3) Labor issues with Tesla and SpaceX.

The first one is absolutely unacceptable and indefensible from all perspectives, no reason to go there.

However the other two have seriously nuanced arguments for/against those that really am interested in if those are contributing factors. 
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Comments

  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    I was a fan and then I saw him smoke a blunt. Well, more accurately, pretend to smoke a blunt. You gotta inhale that shit Elon!!
    All the ChickensKoun7erfittelephoneofmadnessjtmy92
  • I was a fan and then I saw him smoke a blunt. Well, more accurately, pretend to smoke a blunt. You gotta inhale that shit Elon!!
    Elon Musk Smoking GIF by WRONG
    Murderbear
  • edited September 10
    He's a good big ideas guy, but a nightmare as a PR guy and daily operations guy, and he's trying to do all 3.

    Also he is, and acts like, an entitled douche. 

    Edit - Also, as someone who came from a wealthy, white, south african family, I can only assume that a lot of his family's money came from extremely questionable shit. 
    ken hale
  • I was a fan and then I saw him smoke a blunt. Well, more accurately, pretend to smoke a blunt. You gotta inhale that shit Elon!!
    Bill Clinton would beg to differ.*

    *... okay but let’s be honest not really.
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    @asmallcat Apparently his family owned an emerald mine.
    asmallcat
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    @asmallcat Apparently his family owned an emerald mine.
    Dude, you've got me listening to the Daily Zeitgeist now too. :D

    "What, you don't walk around with loose emeralds in your pockets?"
    Murderbear
  • In my best Justin Royland voice, here is an abridged take from his twitter detractors: RICH. WHITE. MALE. PROBLEMATIC. TRUMP? ASSHOLE.


    Inspiration: 

    Murderbear
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Flukes said:
    @asmallcat Apparently his family owned an emerald mine.
    Dude, you've got me listening to the Daily Zeitgeist now too. :D

    "What, you don't walk around with loose emeralds in your pockets?"
    Yeah!! I love Daily Zeitgeist! I typed that and then had to immediately fact check it cause I was just going by what they said. It's kinda crazy though. Apparently his dad was flying a plane with someone else on the way to England hoping to sell the plane, they stopped somewhere on the way, met a rich Italian man and long story short, he sold his plane and ended up owning half of an emerald mine.
    Flukes
  • I used to think he was alright, but his actions over the past few months have changed that. It seems nearly every tech billionaire has their head up their ass. 

    Dude talks like he's humanity's last hope against extinction, then turns around and drops le epic memes on Twitter.


  • DeeDee Adelaide
    He’s just another rich, narcissistic, thin skinned arsehole who thinks he can do whatever the fuck he wants and should be praised for it. We already have one of those running around wrecking the joint.
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited September 10
    The labor stuff is the biggest issue for me, and some of his more harebrained ideas. Like the stupid shuttle bus that moves a couple hundred people to Dodger Stadium and travels one way at a time, and the fact that he's trying to sell that crap to cities as a mass transit solution. 

    It's weird that he claims to be a socialist and seems to have no idea what it means. I'm not asking him to be a socialist or anything, but why claim it in the first place? At least try to know what you're talking about.

    Accusing the guy in Thailand of pedophilia for no apparent reason.

    Doesn't seem like he's giving adequate attention to his cars. I suspect his space project is doing pretty well because he's mostly staying out of it and letting smart people do what they do.


  • asmallcat said:
    He's a good big ideas guy, but a nightmare as a PR guy and daily operations guy, and he's trying to do all 3.

    Also he is, and acts like, an entitled douche. 

    Edit - Also, as someone who came from a wealthy, white, south african family, I can only assume that a lot of his family's money came from extremely questionable shit. 
    If you feel bad about the wealth you have i happen to know a Nigerian prince who could use it....
  • All right this may be unsollicited, and I realise I went a bit off-topic, but as I already wrote all that I thought it'd be a shame not to post in the end... Apologies for the long post.

    This may be a mistake, given my non-subtle forum name (which I'd like to change), and I might be labelled a "fanboy" but I'll try to bring some perspective into this. I don't want to change anyone's mind, just share what I think is an informed view point which might be valuable.

    First things first: him calling this guy a pedo, & not apologising? Unacceptable. I've followed extremely closely this man & his companies for the past 3-4 years, almost to the point of study. The big thing he suffers from in general is over confidence when speaking public (on timelines, product completion) and almost zero control over what he says. That leads sometimes to exciting sudden announcements but also to PR disasters which highlight his rash & assholish side. Because of missed timelines and announcements that didn't fructuate in the end, people just assume he lies now when imo he wants to deliver constantly, but is over-optimistic & definitely should be more controlled.

    I don't think people realise how involved in the minutiae of his businesses he is, and that he has to share 50/50 his time leading two arguably game changer companies in their field [In tech terms Gwynne Shotwell actually leads SpaceX, she's an amazing leader and many think the solution would be the equivalent person at Tesla]. In any case, the caveat of his personality, his drive & the clear stated goals of these companies is that what is requested to work there is extremely high - you could argue to the point of not being fair for the workers. Then again while problems are pointed out at Tesla, people seem to overwhelmingly love working for SpaceX. In my optimistic view I want to think that the worker issues at T are caused by the high pressure of delivering what they promised, which is to become a truly full-scale auto manufacturer - as fast as they can.

    My last point will be this. I think anyone should really take a look at one of his long interviews from between 2013-2015, there's a few of them on yt. I think reducing him to "just another rich asshole" is misguided. Anyway, that was my unecessarily long post of the year.
    JaimieTFlukesjtmy92Koun7erfit
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  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    I just think it's odd and somewhat prosaic to talk about Elon Musk in terms of for/against or whatever. He's an eccentric ideas guy. If he were running for office or something, I would feel differently, but he's out there doing his thing so I feel whatever about him. 

    He'll never run for office but that doesn't mean he won't ever have social power. :# He's... going places, so that's why I ever consider his personality.
    darwinfeeshy
  • I just think it's odd and somewhat prosaic to talk about Elon Musk in terms of for/against or whatever. He's an eccentric ideas guy. If he were running for office or something, I would feel differently, but he's out there doing his thing so I feel whatever about him. 
    Listen, fence rider, you pick a side now. You are either for or against everything, or you are a part of the ill-defined problem. 

    We simply cannot tolerate any of this measured, non-conforming jazz. 


    Flukes
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    I just think it's odd and somewhat prosaic to talk about Elon Musk in terms of for/against or whatever. He's an eccentric ideas guy. If he were running for office or something, I would feel differently, but he's out there doing his thing so I feel whatever about him. 
    His “thing” affects a lot of his workers, for one. He is not some harmless doofus. 
    asmallcat
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  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    I also think it's kind of funny how people focus on him so much- He's just one of many dudes like this in the tech sphere. IDK if it's the crossover with the weed and pop stars that does it? 

    No, he's not just one of the dudes. I'm confident saying he will be a historical figure.
    gguenottelephoneofmadnessjtmy92Melonusk
  • I also think it's kind of funny how people focus on him so much- He's just one of many dudes like this in the tech sphere. IDK if it's the crossover with the weed and pop stars that does it? 
    It's because he's loud and powerful in his industries. Remember, he may not be running for office, but this is the guy the Air Force is trusting to get payloads into space. This is the guy wheeling and dealing with various municipalities to try and take the next step in public transport. He's founded basically the only new successful US automotive company in decades. If Zucky of facebook, or Jack whatever of Twitter, or Tim Cook were this outspoken and obnoxious, people would talk about them this much too. They just have self-restraint. 
    DeeFreddy
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  • asmallcat said:
    He's a good big ideas guy, but a nightmare as a PR guy and daily operations guy, and he's trying to do all 3.

    Also he is, and acts like, an entitled douche. 

    Edit - Also, as someone who came from a wealthy, white, south african family, I can only assume that a lot of his family's money came from extremely questionable shit. 
    Damn, that's a good description. I was just gonna say he seems like a huge asshole who hasn't actually done much.

    Also, I figure a good part of the hate for him is motivated by hatred of his uncritical acolytes. It is for me.
  • Who hasn't done much?  Don't see how you could accuse him of that.  
    Murderbearken haletelephoneofmadnessMelonusk
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    JaimieT said:
    I also think it's kind of funny how people focus on him so much- He's just one of many dudes like this in the tech sphere. IDK if it's the crossover with the weed and pop stars that does it? 

    No, he's not just one of the dudes. I'm confident saying he will be a historical figure.
    There are a lot of potentially historical figures in the tech space right now. And as we know, historical figures don't always behave themselves either.

    Anyways I'm not that passionate about Elon Musk. 

    You found the right thread.  B)
  • He is certainly an interesting character. He is most likely in-between the ego-monster some view him as and the god his fanboys view him as. I read a biography on him and my opinion would shift from amazement and revulsion constantly. He grew up in privileged white only part of South Africa but was bullied by kids for not being a jock in the macho culture there and his father was an abusive monster. He is extremely bright but also has extreme Alpha issues. Read the article by his first wife about their marriage.

    What I really like about him is he has a vision of a better future for humanity and tries to bring it about. After making money in Silicon Valley with PayPal he could have gone on to try to make more money on the next app thing. Instead he risked all of his money in starting two longshot companies, SpaceX and Tesla.

    His recent issues seem to stem from the Tesla shorters. I understand where he is coming from. I am highly skeptical of James Chanos who was made famous shorting Enron and exposing it as a fraud company. Since then he shorts companies he thinks as weak and then, he or other shorters, gets the press to publish hit piece after hit piece on that company all so they can make a shitload of cash. I read one recently that was so full of lies I couldn’t believe it was published which led to his suggestion of a rating system for reporters. Is this how capitalism is supposed to work? Destroy companies that might otherwise make it just to make yourself a buck? This has obviously put a ton of pressure on him trying to keep his company from being destroyed. Anyone here think they wouldn’t come off a bit unstable in this scenario? I know I would come off as a loon. I think he needs to find someone he can trust to take over the Tesla duties before he has a nervous breakdown but unfortunately I doubt the Alpha in him will do that.

    I think the greatest thing that he can do, other than SpaceX for space nerds like me, is continue with the Powerwall and solar roof tiles so that the price for them goes down. If you can get those on any house that receives enough sunlight can have a dramatic effect on world energy. Even having a Powerwall in all houses without solar to store energy when it more available and cheaper can do wonders. The Powerwall also has the added benefit of providing power during outages.

    I wouldn’t work for him, don’t think I could be a friend to someone like that but I hope he succeeds. I would rather have someone that wants to make the future better succeed than someone who just wants to make all the cash they can get their hands on.

    JaimieTLandscrapingAll the ChickenstelephoneofmadnessGiovanniMelonusk
  • jtmy92jtmy92 Independence, MO
    Regardless of what you believe about Elon (of course he needs to tone it down), it can't be understated that Tesla is really the only company that has gone all in on electric vehicles. They have single handily forced other automakers to expand their brands into the electric market as well. Some believe up to 75% of CO2 emissions come from cars, so like it or not Tesla is changing the world. And don't get me started on SpaceX...
    JaimieT
  • edited September 11
    jtmy92 said:
    Regardless of what you believe about Elon (of course he needs to tone it down), it can't be understated that Tesla is really the only company that has gone all in on electric vehicles. They have single handily forced other automakers to expand their brands into the electric market as well. Some believe up to 75% of CO2 emissions come from cars, so like it or not Tesla is changing the world. And don't get me started on SpaceX...
    This is just completely wrong, unless someone's trying to roll in, like, everything vaguely automotive related. All transportation represents ~28% of greenhouse gasses. 

    https://tinyurl.com/pcs8fzh

    Edit - had to use tinyurl cause the EPA sight kepy randomly adding extra stuff. 
  • Robert Downey, Jr., based his portrayal of Tony Stark on a stylized turned-to-11 version of Musk and that’s a more fair comparison than Trump.

    Musk has many, many, issues, but he also has new ideas and he pursues them. SpaceX has already done the impossible several times, and they keep innovating. Nobody thought Tesla would approach the proximity of being a real car company, but it’s close and even it it ultimately does not succeed it has already dragged a lot of the industry reluctantly forward to compete.

    Paypal, SpaceX, Tesla, Solar City, The Boring Company, etc. Most titans of industry get one really good idea and just ride the hell out of it, Musk has had an unusual amount of big ideas and he’s still a pretty young guy.

    Huge asshole in many ways, yeah, but don’t compare him to Trump. Building tacky condos with gold fixtures and opening casinos in Atlantic City aren’t big ideas.
    telephoneofmadnessJaimieTFlukesDoubleA_Ron
  • asmallcat said:
    jtmy92 said:
    Regardless of what you believe about Elon (of course he needs to tone it down), it can't be understated that Tesla is really the only company that has gone all in on electric vehicles. They have single handily forced other automakers to expand their brands into the electric market as well. Some believe up to 75% of CO2 emissions come from cars, so like it or not Tesla is changing the world. And don't get me started on SpaceX...
    This is just completely wrong, unless someone's trying to roll in, like, everything vaguely automotive related. All transportation represents ~28% of greenhouse gasses. 

    https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions ;
    Just a heads up, broken link when I clicked on it. I think that site only gives the US emissions, I'd like to see the car numbers worldwide. 75% probably a high number. Also, electric vehicles aren't totally CO2 free depending on where charging electricity is obtained.
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